I thought this wasnt a medical board

metrovelvet

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055129667

Why is it that every health question bar birth control and abortion gets slammed on PI?

BuffyBot

Have you asked the moderators?

6th

Or did you report any of the posts?

randylonghorn

Perhaps because a lot of Irish doctors are not great at giving unbiased advice on the subject, free from their own moral stance (although I would certainly admit that the situation is changing for the better) ?

No doubt, you will have noticed however that the thread you link to has a lot of phrases like "that you can look at with your doctor or a family planning clinic" and "Have a read and do some research before going to the gp"

Really, all that is happening is that the OP on the thread is being encouraged to do some research and be able to go to their GP with some understanding of the options and the ability to ask informed questions ...

daiixi

Since when do the ones about birth control and abortion not get slammed?

Anyway, maybe people are happier to help stop unwanted pregnancies than they are to help people who should just grow a set and get themselves to a doctor to get whatever it is checked out?

seamus

I personally don't believe that family planning constitutes medical advice.

Talliesin

I've heard of people over-medicalising the condition of pregnancy, but this is ridiculous.

metrovelvet

Prescription birth control, maps and abortion are are medical/health issues. My question is not that those questions should be slammed but that other health issues should be permitted also.

Family planning and pregnancy are of course medical. Maternity is the most litigious of all the branches of medicine.

Usually on PI when there's a health issue, even one that is as simple as what kind of tissue do I use to blow my nose a mod comes in says it's not a medical board, says go to your GP and locks it.

Hardly seems balanced.

ecksor

Can I have a link to this nose blowing thread you mention?

Chinafoot

metrovelvet wrote:

My question is not that those questions should be slammed but that other health issues should be permitted also.

Disagree tbh.

There's a big difference between "I'm considering going on the pill. Anyone have any advice?" and "I've found a lump on my breast. Do I have cancer?"

It may seem like a no-brainer that in the case of the latter people would automatically go to the doctor, but unfortunately there may be those who are so terrified that any idiot could reply with "ah it's just a cyst, I wouldnt't worry about it" and that 'advice' would be followed. Posts like that can never be allowed.

More often than not, questions on PI relating to contraception are asking what types there are and, usually, the OP is told to discuss their options with a GP - particularly when it comes to the pill. I have never seen a response to a pill question that said "this one is totally safe and there's no way you'll put on weight/have mood-swings/turn into a psycho."

As for pregnancy questions....posters saying "my period is late, what should I do?" are told to take a pregnancy test and decide from there. That's hardly medical advice.

Unwanted pregnancy posters receive responses on a moral level, not a medical one. I have never seen a "should I keep it?" post responded to with "Nah, abortion is totally safe and nothing bad will happen to your health." That type of response would never, ever be allowed and rightly so.

metrovelvet

There's a big difference between "I'm considering going on the pill. Anyone have any advice?" and "I've found a lump on my breast. Do I have cancer?"

What is the big difference? Elaborate please.

If someone said " I think I have an infection and want antibiotics which ones should I take, amoxocillian or cipro?' it would get slammed.

If someone said "im in pain, morphene or vicadan?' it would get slammed.

If someone said prozac or zoloft? the same.

But people are free to say get an insert or the pill or an injection?

PeakOutput

the difference is people do not tell the op what particular type of pill to go for they explain the pros and cons of each type of contraception in general to them so they can have an idea of what to ask for when they go to the gp/chemist.

to use an analogy similar to yours, it would be like saying i have a cough i want to get rid of it.......the responce is you should take a cough bottle but go to the doctor to find out which one. granted if someone asked this question it would probably get locked but you know what i mean.

also,as far as i know(open to correction), there are family planning clinics were non doctors and nurses explain the pros and cons of contraception and offer advice on other aspects of family planning so that shows an acceptance that it is not strictly a medical issue.

ecksor

Ok, someone has just read this thread and suggested to me via PM that it must be boards policy to allow anyone to comment upon issues that only affect women in a medical way but to require people to seek properly qualified help for real problems. I would like to categorically state that no such policy exists.

Nevyn

what rubbish if that was the case the circumsicion thread in PI would not exsist.

OTK

There's been a very cautious approach to some topics on boards that people are naturally interested in: sex, drugs, health, the law. Slowly, the demand for these topics seems be such that forums are forming with certain boundaries to cover them.

At this stage even VHI has a health forum: http://community.vhi.ie/eve/forums
with useful discussions from patients' point of view of their medical problems.

Have a look at a thread like this:
http://community.vhi.ie/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/615103/m/651107

My uncle never thought to use the internet until he contracted some rare medical condition and went searching for other people on the net who also had it so that he could share experiences of symptoms and treatments with others going through the same thing.

Anyhow if a semistate conservative organisation can do it I don't see why boards can't.

Beruthiel

ecksor wrote:

I would like to categorically state that no such policy exists.

The policy is Jerry, we do not give medical advice.
However, considering that most women are on the pill and can have related concerns that the rest of us know about, we do tend to allow those and anything we say still means they have to see a doctor in order to start/change it for example.

As China said, there is a big difference between "I'm considering going on the pill. Anyone have any advice?" and "I've found a lump on my breast. Do I have cancer?"

One is practicing safe sex, the other is a health concern.

I'm not sure what Metro's problem is now, since PI was started up we have had many a thread on this topic. I for one see nothing wrong with discussing safe sex, I fail to see how it comes under the same bracket as medical advice.

As for any discussion on abortion, threads like those do not go down the medical route, rather the poster is venting their concerns or worries and it's normally a discussion on that.
Again, we haven't had a thread on that in quite some time, why is that being brought up now?

seamus

Family planning and pregnancy are of course medical. Maternity is the most litigious of all the branches of medicine.

I fail to see the link between legal problems and famly planning. Family planning isn't an exlcusively medical discipline. While there are possible medical aspects to it, it doesn't necessarily require the intervention or advice of a medical professional. Other things, such as cancer, do.

There's no problem with people discussing an illness per se. If someone has diabetes, say, then there's no problem with them discussing the impact of the illness or their experience of it.
However saying, "I'm finding myself very thirsty, and I get very tired and light-headed if I don't eat for a while. What's wrong with me?", is an entirely different prospect.

The difference between discussing medical conditions and asking medical advice is very clear.

But people are free to say get an insert or the pill or an injection?

People are free to give their opinion on either. If someone has decided that they're going to take contraception, then I don't see the problem with discussing their experience of the various methods available.

If someone has decided that they're going to take antidepressants, I similarly don't see a problem with others giving their experiences on the various drugs out there.

However, if someone is describing some vague problems that they're having, and others are saying, "take antidepressants", then that's a problem.

metrovelvet

Beruthiel wrote:

I'm not sure what Metro's problem is now, since PI was started up we have had many a thread on this topic. I for one see nothing wrong with discussing safe sex, I fail to see how it comes under the same bracket as medical advice.

I don't have a "problem" I'm making an observation. Plenty of times the MAP is advised to be taken like it's a polo mint and this seems to be ok.

What seems inconsistent is that diagnoses or solutions that are NOT related to gynecology/obstetrics are not allowed.

Beruthiel wrote:

One is practicing safe sex, the other is a health concern.

Well technically the pill is not "safe sex" since it does not protect against stds but it is a health issue, as are injections and things that get inserted into your body, that is why they are heavily regulated by the medical establishment and you need to visit a doctor to get prescriptions.

And since when is practising safe sex not a health concern?

My query is not so much why these types of questions are permitted but why others are not.

GuanYin

Beruthiel wrote:

I'm not sure what Metro's problem is now

singular?

metrovelvet wrote:

Hardly seems balanced.

Thats Irish men for you.

They're all evil.

speaking of things that aren't balanced.....

jor el

metrovelvet wrote:

I don't have a "problem" I'm making an observation. Plenty of times the MAP is advised to be taken like it's a polo mint and this seems to be ok.

What seems inconsistent is that diagnoses or solutions that are NOT related to gynecology/obstetrics are not allowed.

But in order to get the morning after pill you need to see a doctor. So someone coming on to PI saying that they had unprotected sex last night and what should they do now is allowed, as people can recommend they give the MAP a try. But in order to do that they will have to see a GP. You can't just go into the chemist and buy it. Other people can give their experiences of such things, but they are not saying that take the MAP and you'll be fine, as there can be consequences. This is why it's a prescription drug.

Well technically the pill is not "safe sex" since it does not protect against stds but it is a health issue, as are injections and things that get inserted into your body, that is why they are heavily regulated by the medical establishment and you need to visit a doctor to get prescriptions.

Again, the pill is a prescription drug. Just because someone here says you can use it doesn't mean you actually can. Your GP will prescribe it and a program if it's the right choice.

And since when is practising safe sex not a health concern?

My query is not so much why these types of questions are permitted but why others are not.

The other types of medical questions are not allowed for the simple reasons outlined above. What if someone complains of constant headaches? One person might say take some aspirin and go to bed, because that works for them. But what if the problem is a brain tumor or hemorrhage? No one but a doctor can say what you should do in the case of some kind of medical ailment.

There's a big difference between "I'm considering going on the pill. Anyone have any advice?" and "I've found a lump on my breast. Do I have cancer?"

What is the big difference? Elaborate please.

You can't seriously say you don't see the difference between these two comments. No one can diagnose a possible medical condition over the Internet, but they can offer advise on the known side effects of a contraceptive (especially when you need to see a GP to get it anyway).

Spud83

I suppose you want this thread closed too.

metrovelvet

OK. for the last time, I am not suggesting that threads about gynecology,abortion, or other surgical procedures be closed, but rather that other health/medical queries and responses be permitted also.

metrovelvet

psi wrote:

singular?




Thats Irish men for you.

They're all evil.

speaking of things that aren't balanced.....

I am going to ask you to get over it. I have. Let go of your sick obsession.

aidan_walsh

metrovelvet wrote:

OK. for the last time, I am not suggesting that threads about gynecology,abortion, or other surgical procedures be closed, but rather that other health/medical queries and responses be permitted also.

They won't be, for the same reasons that legal advice isn't permitted to be given. We're not qualified to answer such questions, and the people who are know better than to do so here.

Chinafoot

ok, give us some examples of other health queries that you think should be allowed, and why.

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

OK. for the last time, I am not suggesting that threads about gynecology,abortion, or other surgical procedures be closed, but rather that other health/medical queries and responses be permitted also.

Don't the people who might give medical advice get a say in this? What makes you think that qualified health professionals want to give advice on a BBS where they have no physical contact with a person and no medical history to work off? Thats just bad medicine.

So what you get is a free for all with any tom, dick or harry able to give advice. Who is to say it's good advice? Thats how people get hurt.

Family planning, by and large isn't rocket science, abortions, the pill, contracptives are as much personal moral choice as medical interventions. Us giving you a load of advice on how to deal with Crohn's is a different kettle of fish. Incidently, HIPAA guidelines and basic patient confidentiality won't hold for a second over a BBS, so anything you divulge is public record....

As for a sick obsession or getting over you, give me a break, I just see your posts as pure drivel, mostly borne from your own petty experiences or needs. Youre making a request based on your own personal needs and not thinking about how it effects the rest of the users or site.

In my opinion, this attitude is where most of your problems lie.

jor el

But the suggestion of opening up the forum for other medical questions has already been discussed and denied, for the reasons pointed out here. A medical diagnosis cannot be given without a proper examination. Gynecological questions can sometimes be answered as it's a simple "should I go on the pill" or "My period is late, is that a big problem" type question. There would obviously be more serious issues that can't be answered except by recommending the poster see a GP/gynecologist though.

metrovelvet

psi wrote:

Don't the people who might give medical advice get a say in this? What makes you think that qualified health professionals want to give advice on a BBS where they have no physical contact with a person and no medical history to work off? Thats just bad medicine.

So what you get is a free for all with any tom, dick or harry able to give advice. Who is to say it's good advice? Thats how people get hurt.

Family planning, by and large isn't rocket science, abortions, the pill, contracptives are as much personal moral choice as medical interventions. Us giving you a load of advice on how to deal with Crohn's is a different kettle of fish. Incidently, HIPAA guidelines and basic patient confidentiality won't hold for a second over a BBS, so anything you divulge is public record....

As for a sick obsession or getting over you, give me a break, I just see your posts as pure drivel, mostly borne from your own petty experiences or needs. Youre making a request based on your own personal needs and not thinking about how it effects the rest of the users or site.

In my opinion, this attitude is where most of your problems lie.

Well not drivel enough for you to consistently respond to them. And fyi I don't need answers about Crohns and I certainly wouldn't look for it here if I did.

I don't disagree with you about birth control and pregnancy being as much about personal and moral choices, but I do see alot of flippant responses, which is fine as the person asking the question has the choice to take or leave the advice, but there seems to be an exception made for these types of queries, which are not just health related but medical, and most often gynecologically and sometimes urology related, as in circumcision.

In fact Im not even making a request, Im pointing out what I see as an inconsitency and asking why?

If I were able to do a search on closed PI threads that say " this is not a medical board see your GP" I would be happy to provide you with some examples.

And take a good look at your own lousy attitude before you start looking at mine. I'm not interested in your opinion either so take a long long walk with it.

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

Well not drivel enough for you to consistently respond to them. And fyi I don't need answers about Crohns and I certainly wouldn't look for it here if I did.

FYI, thats not true, you have PM'd me several times seeking medical advice on certain issues, so now you're being dishonest in that respect.

I don't disagree with you about birth control and pregnancy being as much about personal and moral choices, but I do see alot of flippant responses, which is fine as the person asking the question has the choice to take or leave the advice, but there seems to be an exception made for these types of queries, which are not just health related but medical, and most often gynecologically and sometimes urology related, as in circumcision.

Again there is a difference between issues that are personal choice and actual medical concerns. Having breast implants is a medical procedure with several medical concerns to consider, but the actual choice of having breast implants, to my mind, is a personal choice of the same order as contraception, pregnancy attitudes, circumcision etc etc.

In fact Im not even making a request, Im pointing out what I see as an inconsitency and asking why?

Well it is only really inconsistant in your mind, I and others don't see it so.

If I were able to do a search on closed PI threads that say " this is not a medical board see your GP" I would be happy to provide you with some examples.

I'm sure plenty exist, but asking for medical advice or asking how to procede with a medical condition is not the same as asking for opinions on circumcision.

And take a good look at your own lousy attitude before you start looking at mine. I'm not interested in your opinion either so take a long long walk with it.

I think this just sums you up, I'm answering you now with at least rational reasoning, you can't even manage that.

Victor

metrovelvet wrote:

Usually on PI when there's a health issue, even one that is as simple as what kind of tissue do I use to blow my nose a mod comes in says it's not a medical board, says go to your GP and locks it.

Actually the recommendation for colds and the like is 'go to pharmacist'.

OTK wrote:

Anyhow if a semistate conservative organisation can do it I don't see why boards can't.

The VHI employ health professionals and have insurance (albeit self insurance).

metrovelvet wrote:

What seems inconsistent is that diagnoses or solutions that are NOT related to gynecology/obstetrics are not allowed.

I'm not sure if one 'diagnoses' pregnancy. Circumcision and mental health issues are common topics on PI.

My query is not so much why these types of questions are permitted but why others are not.

metrovelvet wrote:

Well not drivel enough for you to consistently respond to them. And fyi I don't need answers about Crohns and I certainly wouldn't look for it here if I did.

Get a room you two.

sometimes urology related.

Maybe we're taking the piss?

In fact Im not even making a request, Im pointing out what I see as an inconsitency and asking why?

I'm not sure if I see the inconsistency. Minor advice and personal experiences will generally be allowed. People seeking diagnosis (even if they deny this) won't. Certain people will be pointed to the Biology / Medicine, Dental Issues or Longterm Illness boards. People suggesting Vitamin X/Y/Z as a magic cure will be shot down. In between, we have to make a call.

GuanYin

Actually, you know Personal Issues used to be a more agony aunt type forum, why not segregate the minor medical threads into a subforum, that way you'll keep the lighter reading stuff aside?

Victor

Indeed.

Of course, we still cover broken hearts.

metrovelvet

psi wrote:

FYI, thats not true, you have PM'd me several times seeking medical advice on certain issues, so now you're being dishonest in that respect.

Because based on previous experience NOW I wouldn't. And I wouldn't do so on PI either.

psi wrote:

Well it is only really inconsistant in your mind, I and others don't see it so.

Really? Are you a mindreader? I think you've been hanging out in paranormal a little too long.

psi wrote:

I think this just sums you up, I'm answering you now with at least rational reasoning, you can't even manage that.

Are you? You answered me with an OPINION about my attitude causing me "problems." If you call that "rational reasoning" then no wonder....

And as for "rational" reasoning, what other kind is there?

And how rational is it to keep arguing with someone whom you think only writes drivel?

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

Because based on previous experience NOW I wouldn't. And I wouldn't do so on PI either.

Ahh, but you did and that is more the point, not everyone has your previous experience, so best to just make sure it doesn't happen.

Really? Are you a mindreader? I think you've been hanging out in paranormal a little too long.

No, but I can read a thread of simple english, which, your clever and original attempts at slagging me aside, you seem to have difficulty with.

Are you? You answered me with an OPINION about my attitude causing me "problems." If you call that "rational reasoning" then no wonder....

No there rational reasoning is interspersed between my opinions of your attitude, or rather vice versa, although you seem to have a problem distinguishing, perhaps if you calmed down as you read.........?

And as for "rational" reasoning, what other kind is there?

Irrational reasoning. In the context of the sentence, reasoning is an act carried out, it is not tantamount to "reason" and as an act, is neutral in terms of validity.

Good attempt though, I love how you come up with a thread topic like that and then try pick at my English

And how rational is it to keep arguing with someone whom you think only writes drivel?

Maybe I don't think you're beyond salvation, or maybe I just don't like to see drivel go unchecked.

metrovelvet

Victor wrote:

Indeed.

Of course, we still cover broken hearts.

...and condoms. You could always offer a two for one deal as they do seem to go hand in hand on PI.

metrovelvet

psi wrote:

Ahh, but you did and that is more the point, not everyone has your previous experience, so best to just make sure it doesn't happen.

No. You were pointing me out as dishonest. I was clarifying your misunderstanding for you. Secondly I am clearly not basing this on my own experience. If I were would I be querying as to why there is not more openness to discussing medical or health? I think you maybe confusing yourself.

psi wrote:

No, but I can read a thread of simple english, which, your clever and original attempts at slagging me aside, you seem to have difficulty with.

Yeah.... I'm not so sure you can. Diga dos para espanol.

psi wrote:

No there rational reasoning is interspersed between my opinions of your attitude, or rather vice versa, although you seem to have a problem distinguishing, perhaps if you calmed down as you read.........?

You're quip "That sums you up...." was an opinion to which I responded with a quip about you taking a look at your own attitude, not to your more "reasoned" responses.

psi wrote:

Irrational reasoning. In the context of the sentence, reasoning is an act carried out, it is not tantamount to "reason" and as an act, is neutral in terms of validity.

If it is irrational does it still constitute reasoning?

psi wrote:

Good attempt though, I love how you come up with a thread topic like that and then try pick at my English .

No, just your redundancies.

psi wrote:

Maybe I don't think you're beyond salvation, or maybe I just don't like to see drivel go unchecked.

Maybe you like the drivel and like provoking more of it. All diction is contradiction ultimately.

Chinafoot

Christ, what has any of that got to do with the issue at hand?

metrovelvet wrote:

...and condoms. You could always offer a two for one deal as they do seem to go hand in hand on PI.

Sorry but are you seriously saying that you don't see any difference between someone asking about condoms and someone asking about a lump on a breast/testicle or persistant head/stomach aches?

That baffles me tbh.

PeakOutput

op the answer to your question has been given by myself and numerous others indeed including the mods of the forum. If you do not like the answer fair enough but it is the answer none the less and i dont think slagging someone off will help you understand any further

metrovelvet

Chinafoot wrote:

Christ, what has any of that got to do with the issue at hand?



Sorry but are you seriously saying that you don't see any difference between someone asking about condoms and someone asking about a lump on a breast/testicle or persistant head/stomach aches?

That baffles me tbh.

Of course there are differences. But there are similarities too. But my response to Victor didnt really have anything to do with my query. I was just riffing on the "broken"

Beruthiel

metrovelvet wrote:

OK. for the last time, I am not suggesting that threads about gynecology,abortion, or other surgical procedures be closed, but rather that other health/medical queries and responses be permitted also.

That will never happen, for fairly obvious reasons which DeV has covered in a thread in PI.

Wertz

Short answer: avoided/aborted fetuses can't bring litigation charges...

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

No. You were pointing me out as dishonest. I was clarifying your misunderstanding for you. Secondly I am clearly not basing this on my own experience. If I were would I be querying as to why there is not more openness to discussing medical or health? I think you maybe confusing yourself.

Not at all, I just think you saying

Yeah.... I'm not so sure you can. Diga dos para espanol.

Nein, aber du bist eine schlafsack.

You're quip "That sums you up...." was an opinion to which I responded with a quip about you taking a look at your own attitude, not to your more "reasoned" responses.

I'm only going on your self-publicised life issues.

If it is irrational does it still constitute reasoning?

Yes.

No, just your redundancies.

For someone of your age and responsibilities, your childish insulting attitude is rather telling.

Maybe you like the drivel and like provoking more of it. All diction is contradiction ultimately.

Get that off the back of a cereal box?

Maybe some rusks?