Omaha hand - is this a no brainer??

semibluff

playing round of each recently live. absolutely nuts table, which seemed to quite down slightly during the holdem round. in which me and a few others would benefit alot, then for the omaha - the majority of the time your priced out preflop as it was nearly 50 each time pre (blinds one one, pot limit)

so ive been trying to see flops in omaha with strong starting hands, and for as cheap as possible in position . (first question : is this the best strategy to counteract the madness aspect)

ive worked 200 up to 1k. average stack is about 1200 but the "gamblers" are either up a few k or in a hole - hence the madness.

the hand in question i call in the cutoff (button very tight) for 10, hoping to see a flop. it eventually gets raised again by the blinds, and back to me and its now 50 to play, with 3 others already in. im last to act.
i call with Ah3h5d2d . (mistake? considering all above info?)

flop is 10 6 4 - two hearts. the action is pot followed by a re - pot . back to me. its pretty much all my stack if i decide to play, 950. the two others involved are the gamblers of the table, yet they can def play omaha, and when they put their money in on the flop they norm have the goods. if i go all in, its pretty obvious that it will be three way (ie we wont lose the initial pot raiser)

so is this a no brainer? what factors should i be thinking about - ( if one has a set, does his chance of hitting a house affect my flush draw %'s, could my str8 be drawn to the bottom end - ie could one player have a wrap with the 6-10 or should i just shut up, pray and ship it?)

opinions please, thank you

The_Chopper

semibluff wrote:

playing round of each recently live. absolutely nuts table, which seemed to quite down slightly during the holdem round. in which me and a few others would benefit alot, then for the omaha - the majority of the time your priced out preflop as it was nearly 50 each time pre (blinds one one, pot limit)

so ive been trying to see flops in omaha with strong starting hands, and for as cheap as possible in position . (first question : is this the best strategy to counteract the madness aspect)

ive worked 200 up to 1k. average stack is about 1200 but the "gamblers" are either up a few k or in a hole - hence the madness.

the hand in question i call in the cutoff (button very tight) for 10, hoping to see a flop. it eventually gets raised again by the blinds, and back to me and its now 50 to play, with 3 others already in. im last to act.
i call with Ah3h5d2d . (mistake? considering all above info?)

flop is 10 6 4 - two hearts. the action is pot followed by a re - pot . back to me. its pretty much all my stack if i decide to play, 950. the two others involved are the gamblers of the table, yet they can def play omaha, and when they put their money in on the flop they norm have the goods. if i go all in, its pretty obvious that it will be three way (ie we wont lose the initial pot raiser)

so is this a no brainer? what factors should i be thinking about - ( if one has a set, does his chance of hitting a house affect my flush draw %'s, could my str8 be drawn to the bottom end - ie could one player have a wrap with the 6-10 or should i just shut up, pray and ship it?)

opinions please, thank you

Preflop is a mistake in my opinion - your hand doesn't have that many draws to the nuts. However with that flop and the amount of money in the pot I am always sticking it in here. Worst case sinario is that you have 10 outs twice with 8 hearts (the non heart card can't pair) and 2 2's (you hold a 2 and 2h we count in flush draw). There's a saying in omaha that you never fold the nut flush draw on the flop with 2 or more people involved in the pot. Hey best case sinario they both have sets and you have 14 outs twice

Ace2007

yea i would fold preflop - with the hand you have - ur straight is nearly always going to be the bad end. if the table is as mad as u say and 3 hearts come on the flop - are you comfortable putting in ur tank then.

P.S i played with a similar hand a while back - floped the nut flush - bet 125 on the flop - got 2 callers - bet 425 on the turn, guy went all in for 550 - i call - board paired on the river and i lost the lot. So basically i learned the hard way(and probably the best way) - i'm hoping you didn't

cardshark202

Preflop is meh but this flop is about the best you can hope for

sickpuppy

Fold that pile of shyte pre flop unless u hita miracle flop it wll get you into bother.
IF the game is as wild as you say it is id fold you will get abetter chance witha better hand to profit.
If it was heads up and hes aset you area 6-4 dog considering u have 2 opponents its likely ahigher wrap str8 draw is out with possible blockers for the flush.I guess if you do feel like gambling tank it you are in for 200 euro here is a chance to get nearer to 3k.Personally id fold especially if you were buying back in for 200 or 300.
Ace you getting outdrawn with the nut flush on 4th street has no relevance to the thread,and of course if hes the nut flush draw on flop he wants to go allin againest aset hes abig fav and itsa +ev thing to do so.Calling pot sized bets on the turn with asett when a made hand is out there is just daft.

Ace2007

sickpuppy wrote:

Ace you getting outdrawn with the nut flush on 4th street has no relevance to the thread,and of course if hes the nut flush draw on flop he wants to go allin againest aset hes abig fav and itsa +ev thing to do so.Calling pot sized bets on the turn with asett when a made hand is out there is just daft.

how does it not - i have more or less the same starting hand - and i was just letting him see - that even if he flops the nut flush - heavy action could take place and he could get in trouble... ur right - but some ppl will never fold - maybe i just seem to play against Mr lucky - i mean this guy hit 2 royal flushed within 24hrs in the same seat.... wouldn't u chase down cards if u were this lucky...

sickpuppy

Ace if you are worried about getting outdrawn when you have the nuts on the turn omaha is not your game.
It happens but in the long term you want these loons going allin with trips when you have the nut flush on 4th street.
So by your reasoning if semibluff flopped nut flush he should still beware on the turn even if its still has the nuts.Were you born in nitville?
As this hand played semi has a draw a big draw not a made hand.
Your bad beat has no relevance to doing the right thing ie getting the money in as a big favourite on 4th street.

mrflash

you should have folded pre flop but now you have a monster draw, you have to get them all in with this flop.

cooker3

Ace2007 wrote:

P.S i played with a similar hand a while back - floped the nut flush - bet 125 on the flop - got 2 callers - bet 425 on the turn, guy went all in for 550 - i call - board paired on the river and i lost the lot. So basically i learned the hard way(and probably the best way) - i'm hoping you didn't

Right, so you had a similar hand once and lost it so therefore he should fold. LOL

kryogen

with the table you have described i dont play this hand pre flop. its not a very good starting hand against these guys,not enough possible draws to the nuts imo.

however after the flop, which is basically the flop that you have called to hit in fairness!!, i would be happy getting it all in there, you have bought in for 200, you have the chance to move toward the 3k mark? its a good spot for you to gamble i think. if you are not prepared to play for your stack on this flop you should fold this type of hand eveytime pre flop!

you are almost guaranteed to be up against at least one set, a possible wrap hand, maybe a lower flush draw...but you cant worry about their holdings here to be honest, you know what they will have 90% of the time and all that matters is whether your going to hit or not! you need to get lucky, but its a good spot to try to do it, at the end of the day you have to gamble at some stage to win big in these crazy cash games, and your not going to find a better chance really, you have two of them willing to call your all in, you have whatever money is in the pot already,i think your maximising your value here if you hit.

hope this post made sense, im sooo tired i can barely see the screen!:p

Flipper

To answer your first question, you're basic strategy (unless you're playing REALLY deep) is perfect.

You're hand is not great and play wheel cards can end in tears a lot of the time. The problem with playing small cards is that you have to win the pot twice - you first have to hit and you have to go another three rounds of betting to avoid half the deck. Choose your starting hands a little better and you won't leave yourself with nearly as many tough decisions.

No that you're here on the flop, you pretty much caught gin (outside of flopping the nuts - which would have been an action killer anyway). Go ahead and get it in. We come back to your pre-flop hand selection to find the root of getting your stack in on a draw (which I hate). As I said already, cards like these will flop biggesh draws (like this one) a lot of the time and you have to be willing to ship it. Did you hit or did a nasty 10 come on the turn?

dougee19

preflop isnt too horrible in my opinion, only reason is because u know a re-raise isnt going to come, getting in for 50 into a pot of 250ish i think
the hand itself is pretty bad and if im playing tight i fold that, but if im playing and want action and want to gamble its a call :P
that flop.... im not getting off that!!

nut flush draw and a low straight draw, if ur against a set any heart or 7,5,3 or 2 for the straight.. providing he doesnt have it with his set, with the third person in the hand ur straight draw isnt good but the 2 would give u the nuts anyway...
definate push on the flop for me, and then just hope for the nuts!!!!

RoundTower

I think preflop is OK and flop you can only shove.

Ace2007

cooker3 wrote:

Right, so you had a similar hand once and lost it so therefore he should fold. LOL

how many ppl on here also thought it was a fold pre flop - not just me...

cooker3

Ace2007 wrote:

how many ppl on here also thought it was a fold pre flop - not just me...

They said fold because they thought it was -ev and that it didn't match up well against the opponants ranges
You said fold because you lost with a similar hand once, there is a major difference.

Ace2007

no i said fold for the same reasons - i was just giving an example of what happens when u play wiht a hand(where by ur drawin to very few outs)

dougee19

but u werent drawing to few outs.. u had the nuts and got unlucky

cooker3

Ace2007 wrote:

no i said fold for the same reasons - i was just giving an example of what happens when u play wiht a hand(where by ur drawin to very few outs)

You were not drawing to any outs, you had the nuts!
This is your problem that you keep making in posts over and over again, you don't consider the right variables when making a decision. All that matters here is it +EV or not for each decision, whatever has the highest EV is the best play, that is it, don't try to bring anything else into it as it's irrelevant.

semibluff

RoundTower wrote:

I think preflop is OK and flop you can only shove.

im glad atleast one said this.

to call 50 pre with this hand isnt perfect, or arguably good, but take into consideration that i initially called 10, and then the extra 40. to those who say i should fold, when?? at the 10euro mark or 50?

yes ideally getting stronger starting hands with these lads was the best way forward, but also the need to see a flop, is massive. they were paying people off, and normally getting heads up against each other (there were 3 "gamblers") so hitting much of the flop would allow me call any bet made, and depending on the turn action re-assess. This table in particular knew that if any of us (the tighter players) called pre we had a good starting hand, and they would always take the chance to out bet us on the pot, so by calling the flop bet, was major strength and would normally be followed by a check fold by them on the turn (depending on how scary the board was)

anyways, thats just my (wrong>?) thinking on playing hands with them, and explains a bit more why i called pre.

ill give the result if needs be later if anyone cares (insignificant to the questions anyways)

thanks

bottom feeder

yeah Dongal, result....?

semibluff

the initial raiser had two pair, the second guy had 6789 (he was often re-raising the other guy, and so didnt have to be to strong)

turn was a 3 of spades giving OR two pair and the other flush draw. the hearts were still good for me, river a jack and OR wins with 2pair 10,J.

this result hurt, but is immaterial to the question. i suppose its probably only when we lose that we start questioning our calls/decisions, but i just wanted some clarification on the hand and how i played it, as i realise omaha to be a very profitable game, which i am yet to fully grasp.

thanks for the comments and please give any others that are relevant

dougee19

semibluff wrote:

the initial raiser had two pair, the second guy had 6789 (he was often re-raising the other guy, and so didnt have to be to strong)

turn was a 3 of spades giving OR two pair and the other flush draw. the hearts were still good for me, river a jack and OR wins with 2pair 10,J.

this result hurt, but is immaterial to the question. i suppose its probably only when we lose that we start questioning our calls/decisions, but i just wanted some clarification on the hand and how i played it, as i realise omaha to be a very profitable game, which i am yet to fully grasp.

thanks for the comments and please give any others that are relevant

well i have to say one thing!!!!
if you were paying more attention your 25 made a straight and would have won....

semibluff

must have miss read turn then

i didnt win, believe me i stared at the board for 10 minutes after it


nice and sharp tho dougee, wp

dougee19

haha, being told well played after a comment... i like it
and im just fast off the draw, doesnt make me good or anything so dont go thinking that!!!!
should edit the last comment and say the 3 gives you 23456, low flush!!!
unlucky man, but u played it exactly like i and a lot of others would