Call three barrels with 99?

phantom_lord

nothing other than: 18/12/5.4 11/3/3 by street.


opens for 4 utg, i call next to act with 99, 4 folds.


FLOP ~ (9.5)

4 2 8

bet $7.00, call.

TURN ~ (23.5)

Q

bet $18.00, call.

RIVER ~ (59.5)

10

bet $34.00, ?


just seems like a good board to triple barrel, should i call now? or just fold the turn?

sikes

prob call the river after taking that line.

I dont really like it at all, very sationy.

Van Dice

Wouldn't call the river. I wouldn't have got past the turn playing v an unknown TAG though

cooker3

Hmmmmn it's marginal, his af is quite high so I suspect he could do it but I lean towards caution, fold turn maybe and definately fold the river

Tar.Aldarion

Raise flop. You don't know where you are by the river, or if the 10 or queen helped him, or anything really.

cooker3

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Raise flop.

Does anything call a raise on the flop that we beat?

Marq

there's nothing wrong with being a station when being one is the most profitable way to play the hand. If we raise at any point I doubt worse hands call us. Your hand is a nice bluff catcher, I would say you are good here better than 50% of the time on the river.

cardshark202

I prefer just folding the turn unless I've seen something to change my mind.

phantom_lord

sikes wrote:

prob call the river after taking that line.

I dont really like it at all, very sationy.

what do you think is a better line? just fold the turn?

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Raise flop. You don't know where you are by the river, or if the 10 or queen helped him, or anything really.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=10713209&page=0&vc=1

sikes

I would fold the turn as played. Just becuause it looks like a good board to double and tripple barrell i would need more info to make the call and believe he is doing it enough. Im not sure on the river, but certainly if we think he double barrells there's no reason to believe a call on the river isnt profitable. The obvious draw missed.

Raising the flop isnt bad at all, your hand isnt very strong, and encouraging yourself to start calling down as a standard line in this spot is going to cost you against good opponents, you need to protect your hand.

Hectorjelly

raising the flop is pretty bad in a vacuum, hes never calling with worse or folding better,

Hectorjelly

great link btw pl!

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

raising the flop is pretty bad in a vacuum, hes never calling with worse or folding better,

i disagree, against a aggressive player i think its fine. Its certainly +EV to raise, and i dont think calling down is profitable against good oppoents. I think people are getting into that habbit far far too often, especially at 100NL, its something I have almost removed totally from my game against good oppoents.

phantom_lord

i posted this hand on 2+2 and some guy's saying i should have folded pf. wtf! lol

BobSloane

You're beating AKs and AJs. Thats about it. Although i would probably 3 barrell with those hands. Tricky. I like others either fold turn or make the hero call on the river having got there.
He makes 3/4pot size bets on flop and turn and little over 1/2 on river..? He doesn't seem to love his hand on the river..? lol i'm always looking for an excuse to call. Is there ever value coming over the top here if he has a good bit left behind? Might fold out JJ or ATs..? Prob a bad idea!

phantom_lord

i was looking through his hands earlier, one thing i noticed is that he doesn't value bet well on the river, so i don't think he'd be betting at or jj here.

it's either aq or aks/air or w/e.

i don't have many hands on him, and in most cases people just folded to his c-bets, or he bet an a-high board and c/f a rag turn, so i'm not really sure if he's capable of triple barrelling here.

sikes

He folds perhaps 70% of his range when we raise, and he will fold if he is a multitabling nit. It also fits into a good strategy too so when he re-raises or you give up on the turn thats fine.

Calling down is pants and it may be profitable once, and only once, but after that it just sucks because you dont want to call down with a strong made hand cos you lose value somewhere, or on this board you are letting people draw for free.

I'm certainly open to correction, but the whole idea of he will only call when your behind isnt valid, becuase thats not enough to make the raise -EV. It's clearly +EV becuase most of his range has missed.

mrflash

definitely fold on the river, and i would fold on the turn as well, not worth it with a marginal hand like 99.

Hectorjelly

sikes wrote:

He folds perhaps 70% of his range when we raise, and he will fold if he is a multitabling nit. It also fits into a good strategy too so when he re-raises or you give up on the turn thats fine.

Calling down is pants and it may be profitable once, and only once, but after that it just sucks because you dont want to call down with a strong made hand cos you lose value somewhere, or on this board you are letting people draw for free.

I'm certainly open to correction, but the whole idea of he will only call when your behind isnt valid, becuase thats not enough to make the raise -EV. It's clearly +EV becuase most of his range has missed.

if you raise it costs you close to the pot size to find out if your hand is good or not, wheras by calling you can find out the same on the turn for much cheaper, plus you keep the pot small and can induce bluffs etc; we've had this discussion a million times and Im not going to go back into it

Ace2007

imo if u called the turn u might as well call the river...

if anything u get information for $34 - thats cheap in the long run...

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

if you raise it costs you close to the pot size to find out if your hand is good or not, wheras by calling you can find out the same on the turn for much cheaper, plus you keep the pot small and can induce bluffs etc; we've had this discussion a million times and Im not going to go back into it

You said raising the turn is bad, its not bad in the sense of being -EV. An alternative line can be more profitable, certainly against some.

cardshark202

One good thing about raising the flop imo is that it yields greater expectation in the long run as it increases the chances of your sets et al being paid off if you were to flop big in a similiar situation in the future. Although calling down will obviously discourage him from firing many barrells vs you in the future, it may also encourage him to value bet thinner against you.
But its 100NL lol

cardshark202

double post boards is a pile of ****e