Punching

Nalced_irl

Ok, it seems like every thread here is eventually going to a Geraghty V Whelan in a who is worse competition. I dont want this one to turn that way, i simply want to discuss punching and general striking in GAA. What i dont understand is that in every sport in the world, striking another player is a red card offence, simple as that; however in GAA it is usually a yellow card offence at worst. For this i am reffering to Geraghty, Whelan and every other player that has struck an opponent and stayed on the field. These days unless you knock him out cold, you will probably remain on the field with a warning. Does anyone else think it is ridiculous?? Surely any off the ball incident where a player strikes another is a blatent sending off and it is something i think should be taken alot more seriously by referees.

Carcharodon

Well I think it depends on the circumstances, a hard fought heated battle where there are fists thrown in the heat of the moment is no problem to me. Most players will get over it and move on, its a tough game at the end of the day and people really over react to these things.
An unprovoked punch is probably a different story....

kaimera

It's not just punching tbh, it's fairly obvious that the GAA and discipline etc just don't go well together.

Heat of the moment shouldn't matter imo.

Aedh Baclamh

Certainly needs to be looked at for the next season in my opinion. I don't mind the odd squaring up but when fists are thrown in a sport you gotta be asking questions. Respect yourself, respect your opponent, respect the sport. I've seen many a punch thrown by teammates and it's a disgrace really. Hit them fair and square in the game but don't be a scumbag about it.

jmayo

Why oh why is the usual cr** spouted out about how it's a mans game and you should get on with it. "You should take your knocks like a man" is another line quoted.
Yeah tell that to some of the players down the years that have ended up drinking though straws because some sneaky little sh*** broke their jaw with an elbow. Maybe if a player sues the opposition player next time and takes a civil case for GBH will the GAA wise up and try and stamp it out.

Rugby involves a lot more physical tackles and still keeps a lid on it to a large extent. The GAA could learn a lot from it with regards discipline both on and off the pitch.
It also doesn't tolerate players having a go at refs and officals.

The gas thing is how the GAA and a lot of it's fans get so santamonous about what the Aussies get up to, when there is a lot of cr** going on in the game here.

How a ref can ignore a punch thrown, right in front of him, is beyond believe.
They are too f***ing busy penalising players for overcarrying and moving the ball forward few yards during frees etc.

blackbelt

Thanks Nalced,now we can discuss violence in the game properly without turning it into another GG v Whelan thread.

Theres no place for it in the game on the pitch or off the pitch period as far as I'm concerned.If you incite somebody to violence in the game from off the pitch,you are just as guilty.

Erin Go Brath

Punching someone should be an automatic red. Certainly be a deterrant for Geraghty, Whelan and anyone else who thinks its ok to have a go. I do hope GAA will never become as pansyish as some of the stuff I see in soccer. Yes to physicality. No to punching and elbowing.

blackbelt

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Punching someone should be an automatic red. Certainly be a deterrant for Geraghty, Whelan and anyone else who thinks its ok to have a go. I do hope GAA will never become as pansyish as some of the stuff I see in soccer. Yes to physicality. No to punching and elbowing.

I couldn't agree more.Anybody who punches,elbows,clotheslines or "slaps" (Lemlin) should be sent off.No exception should be made for a certain Dublin or Meath player or anybody else for that matter.

Violence in the game really p1sses me off.Some of you probably think I'm too outspoken about it but thats the way I am.GAA is a beautiful game and is a pivotal part of our culture.Everytime I go to Croke Park whether Dublin are playing or not,I see the amount of foreign nationals attending games increasing.That goes to show how much GAA is changing and is appealing to people of different nationalities and cultures.Violence in the game just spoils it.

Nalced_irl

I just really think this is something of much larger importance than showmanship or all that other stuff.As it is now, player will throw punches as they know they will get away with it. If they get really p1ssed off, they will completely level their opponent which is dangerous. If red cards were handed out for any striking of the face, we wouldnt see such dangerous incidents. GAA does really seem to have 2 sides to it. On one hand there is the "Its just not cricket" type arguement (see other thread for details) and on this side its "ah sure a bit of a slap does no harm".

gucci

Nalced_irl wrote:

. GAA does really seem to have 2 sides to it. On one hand there is the "Its just not cricket" type arguement (see other thread for details) and on this side its "ah sure a bit of a slap does no harm".

dont forget the side to it where we put out our best players to get punched and abused by the aussies every few years

Erin Go Brath

gucci wrote:

dont forget the side to it where we put out our best players to get punched and abused by the aussies every few years

Thats the major problem to the hybrid competition i'm afraid. Aussie Rules is even more physical than Gaelic Football. (EG you can legally fling someone into the turf, like when Geraghty got creamed). Their boys are Professional athletes, and big to accomodate the extra physicality of their game. Ours are Amateur, and not necessarily as big to accomodate the skill level needed in our game moreso than phyical size.

Can you imagine if their was a Soccer/Aussie Rules or Soccer/Gaelic Football hybrid game. Ronaldo and Beckham would get clobbered, and go running to their mammies after 5 minutes!!!

jameshayes

Nalced_irl wrote:

What I dont understand is that in every sport in the world, striking another player is a red card offence, simple as that; however in GAA it is usually a yellow card offence at worst.

It's mainly the homeland sports that you are allowed excessive violence - ice hockey, aussie rules etc..

I think it's part of the game and it's welcome to an extent.

a good oul push and shove gets the players and fans riled up for a better game


***I'm not condoning violence but I am condoning heated sportsmanship***

Nalced_irl

Well James, a push and a shove is fair enough. Im not so much complaining about the old push at the throw in to let him know your there or whatever but blatent punching is what i think needs to be taken out of the game.

Gator

If you cant take a punch then dont play, simple as that, that what makes it a great game and seperates it from that ballarina's game across the water, the same person you were kicking lumps (or getting lumps kicked out you) will be the person who is buying pints for you after the game.

Im not saying to totally knock someone unconscious is ok but the odd slap and punch keeps the game alive and your desire to really hammer the other team (score wise) alive.

An Citeog

Gator wrote:

If you cant take a punch then dont play, simple as that, that what makes it a great game and seperates it from that ballarina's game across the water, the same person you were kicking lumps (or getting lumps kicked out you) will be the person who is buying pints for you after the game.

Im not saying to totally knock someone unconscious is ok but the odd slap and punch keeps the game alive and your desire to really hammer the other team (score wise) alive.

That's a load of crap tbh. Punching and sly off the ball elbows aren't part of the game. There's nothing wrong with the physicality, in fact that's what I love most about playing, but striking shouldn't be tolerated. Otherwise it'll just end up like the international rules and people will just start to get sick of it.

One Cold Hand

Gator wrote:

If you cant take a punch then dont play, simple as that, that what makes it a great game and seperates it from that ballarina's game across the water, the same person you were kicking lumps (or getting lumps kicked out you) will be the person who is buying pints for you after the game.

Im not saying to totally knock someone unconscious is ok but the odd slap and punch keeps the game alive and your desire to really hammer the other team (score wise) alive.

What a load of rubbish. Where do you draw the line mate? It's a pretty fine line a bit of a punch and knocking him out.
'Ah it's okay ref, I only hit him a bit of a punch. Sure he's still alive. He has no front teeth, but he's still standing.'

I also love the tough physical aspect of the game and I fully agree it's what separates GAA from soccer, but off the ball punching and violence is wrong, and needs to be cut out where possible.

Mr. Incognito

Otherwise it'll just end up like the international rules and people will just start to get sick of it.

The reason people get sick of it is because Ireland get the crap kicked out of them. Heavy tackling is part and parcel of the Australian game. One of the stats is significant injuries. The GAA could stamp out all that sly dig ****e by applying the rules as they stand, uniformly and mercilessly. Anyone who is gets a yellow should get an automatic one match ban and three for a red. That would stamp it out quite quickly, and we need to tackle this attitude that punches are part of teh game. They are not. If they were the Aussies wouldn't beat seven shades out of the Irish players who may be tough for GAA but try that ****e on the Aussies and they will turn around and knock you out. Sly digs and all that needs to be either stamped out completely or let them at it like the Australians.

Gator

Within reason guys, will you relax, as i said im not up for completly kicking the **** out of someone but a bit of tussle is great,the odd slap and the occasional punch. Off the ball slyness I do not like, what that geraghty scumbag did was wrong, you dont punch someone when they have the ball and make it look like a tackle.

premierstone

i sense a two week ban for use of the 'S' word

jmayo

Gator wrote:

If you cant take a punch then dont play, simple as that, that what makes it a great game and seperates it from that ballarina's game across the water, the same person you were kicking lumps (or getting lumps kicked out you) will be the person who is buying pints for you after the game.

Im not saying to totally knock someone unconscious is ok but the odd slap and punch keeps the game alive and your desire to really hammer the other team (score wise) alive.

So according to your rules, what Colm McFadden did to Brian Dooher was ok?
He only gave him a jab in the mouth, he didn't knock him unconsious or anything.
After all he didn't punch him when he had the ball or he didn't make it look like a tackle either.
I'm sure Brian Dooher was down the local gym all week sparring with John Duddy for his meeting with Donegal.
If people don't mind taking punches I think they usually take up boxing :rolleyes:

Maybe you have to end up like Mickey Ned O'Sullivan in 1975 final to have sanctions brought against a player.

So is a broken jaw ok then?
After all you probably aren't knocked unconsious.
Of course you can't go for few pints that night with the guy that did it to you, since you will be getting your jaw wired back together.

One Cold Hand

Gator wrote:

Within reason guys, will you relax, as i said im not up for completly kicking the **** out of someone but a bit of tussle is great,the odd slap and the occasional punch. Off the ball slyness I do not like, what that geraghty scumbag did was wrong, you dont punch someone when they have the ball and make it look like a tackle.

So kicking the **** (?) out of someone isn't acceptable.
Neither is off the ball slyness.
Neither is punching someone and making it look like a tackle.

Have you just beaten yourself in this discussion? What does this leave exactly? According to you the 'occasional punch is great.'

Oh i've worked it out, it can be a bit of a punch, in a tackle, that's not disguised as something else. Is that it?

Gator

Yeah, thats exactly it, well done

EARMUFFS

No debate really needed. Punching,striking whatever you like to call it has to be a red card. Taunting someone to get a punch is gamesmanship. Punching said taunter is stupidity and deserves the red card. And to be honest unless a referee sends a high profile player off in an All Ireland final it will continue to be tolerated as "sure its only part of the game".
I remember a club match where a corner forward got a punch square in the mouth and lost a couple of teeth. Fight ensued and eventually calmed down. We then had to help find the teeth which were found and put in a discarded milk carton and the game went on. No sending offs no recriminations. the corner forward played on and handed over the milk carton with his teeth inside to one of the subs!:eek:

jmayo

EARMUFFS wrote:

No debate really needed. Punching,striking whatever you like to call it has to be a red card. Taunting someone to get a punch is gamesmanship. Punching said taunter is stupidity and deserves the red card. And to be honest unless a referee sends a high profile player off in an All Ireland final it will continue to be tolerated as "sure its only part of the game".
I remember a club match where a corner forward got a punch square in the mouth and lost a couple of teeth. Fight ensued and eventually calmed down. We then had to help find the teeth which were found and put in a discarded milk carton and the game went on. No sending offs no recriminations. the corner forward played on and handed over the milk carton with his teeth inside to one of the subs!:eek:

If that happened on the street it would be an assualt and punishable in a court of law. Why is it acceptable on a GAA pitch?

It will be stamped down on when the GAA starts loosing money.
Sooner or later it is going to happen that some one injured will get a smart lawyer and decide to try and take a club or individual player to the cleaners.
Sadly until then, when it will be too late, we will have the hurlers on the ditch stating that it is part of our game and shows our manliness.

It is not manly to elbow someone in the side of the head, throw a punch when they are not prepared, or shove the knee into their throat when you are on top of them.
Manly is hardly the way you could describe some of the goings on on the pitch. Sneaky, cowardly and low is a better description.

I know of certain ex GAA players that were famous as ball grabbers. Is it also considered manly to grab another guys balls, because I definitely would not like to be in that club?

event

aye its ironic when you see the players and supporters calling it a mans game, vut as soon as the aussies get that little bit rougher, they were like a spoilt child taking their ball away

kaimera

Gator 2 week ban.

blackbelt

kaimera wrote:

Gator 2 week ban.

Amen to that.No tolerance for violence in the game or people who support it.

An Citeog

blackbelt wrote:

Amen to that.No tolerance for violence in the game or people who support it.

Not quite, I'm guessing it was because of this.

Gator wrote:

Within reason guys, will you relax, as i said im not up for completly kicking the **** out of someone but a bit of tussle is great,the odd slap and the occasional punch. Off the ball slyness I do not like, what that geraghty scumbag did was wrong, you dont punch someone when they have the ball and make it look like a tackle.

blackbelt

Oh I see,well the rules are in place and Kaimera did post it in the rules thread so people have been warned.

Carcharodon

Out of curiosity, how many of the "anti violence" brigade actually play football competitively.
Its obvious that any sneaky, cowardly, vicous and dangerous actions should be a red card but are people not able to understand heat of the moment scuffles that may lead to the wayward punch/handbag.

I have a feeling some people will never understand football and will not be happy untill its a non contact sport.
I for one can say, ive never felt the need for an opposition player to get sent off after any over heated excahnges.

I suppose someone has to think of the children, plenty of people here to do that

K-9

EARMUFFS wrote:

Punching said taunter is stupidity and deserves the red card. And to be honest unless a referee sends a high profile player off in an All Ireland final it will continue to be tolerated as "sure its only part of the game".

Niall Cahalalane got sent off in 93 for this. 99% sure of it. Others have been to, I think half the problem is the inconsistency of refs, some do turn a blind eye if it's near the end of a game. Some players are brought up on video camera evidence, others aren't. There still seems a good chance you'll get away with it.

blackbelt

The usual nudge,shoulder off the ball is not a huge problem and is all part of the game.Nobody is asking for it to be a non-contact sport but the rules allow for the proper use of the shoulder.

megadodge

Niall Cahalalane got sent off in 93 for this. 99% sure of it.

I think you've got that wrong.
Cahalane should have been sent off for punching Enda Gormley off the ball, but it wasn't spotted.
Then Tony Davis (one of the game's true gentlemen) gets sent off ridiculously for something that was proven afterwards to not even be a free. Dermot Heaney after receiving a good hip to hip challenge from Davis just after picking the ball up goes down holding his face, cue a load of booing and the ref panics and Tony gets marched.

the rules allow for the proper use of the shoulder

Yes, but more and more you see refs blowing against the giver of a good hard shoulder simply because it sent the receiver flying. The case above would be an old example but there are similar incidents happening regularly and it's just sickening to see this 'soccerisation' of Gaelic football. Soon it will be like soccer where there is virtually no physical contact whatsoever. Tyrone (with the exception of McMenaman - not that I like him but he took his knocks against Monaghan and got on with it) players are now the official GAA leaders in diving and being in 'agony' from completely innocuous challenges and it's just sickening to watch.

patmac

No place for punching or striking in the GAA IMO it just gives more of an advantage to the bigger counties they target the smaller counties top player i.e. Dessie Dolan, Mattie Forde, Declan Browne etc and then take them out with a sly punch and then its game over.
It does need to be refereed properly though and with the increase in fitness and speed of the modern game the only way to do this is to introduce a second referee and give more power to linesmen and umpires.
Also straight reds followed by 3 match suspensions would clean up the game as players would be less likely to throw a punch if this was enforced.
People gave out about the 'softening of soccer' when new laws were introduced to clean the game up after the abomination that was the 1990 World Cup but its a far better game now, although still not a patch on GAA;)

One Cold Hand

patmac wrote:

No place for punching or striking in the GAA IMO it just gives more of an advantage to the bigger counties they target the smaller counties top player i.e. Dessie Dolan, Mattie Forde, Declan Browne etc and then take them out with a sly punch and then its game over.
It does need to be refereed properly though and with the increase in fitness and speed of the modern game the only way to do this is to introduce a second referee and give more power to linesmen and umpires.
Also straight reds followed by 3 match suspensions would clean up the game as players would be less likely to throw a punch if this was enforced.
People gave out about the 'softening of soccer' when new laws were introduced to clean the game up after the abomination that was the 1990 World Cup but its a far better game now, although still not a patch on GAA;)

Yeah poor old Mattie Forde. Always the victim (sarc). He should really do something like, oh I dunno, stamp on someones head? just to show he won't be bullied.

patmac

One Cold Hand wrote:

Yeah poor old Mattie Forde. Always the victim (sarc). He should really do something like, oh I dunno, stamp on someones head? just to show he won't be bullied.

He was just an example of how one county depends on one player who gets targeted and provoked into retaliation for which he got suspended and quite rightly so, so thanks for highlighting my point.
Westmeath won Leinster in 2004 first game of 2005 Westmeath leading by three points midway through the first half against Kildare and Dessie Dolan gets taken out off the ball which no official spots and misses the rest of the season.
So two examples of thuggery which is way too prevalent in this game I mean look what happened to Joe Canning a fine hurler who has never played the game since. We could go on but instead of nickpicking peoples points why don't we try and do something about it.

K-9

megadodge wrote:

I think you've got that wrong.
Cahalane should have been sent off for punching Enda Gormley off the ball, but it wasn't spotted.
Then Tony Davis (one of the game's true gentlemen) gets sent off ridiculously for something that was proven afterwards to not even be a free. Dermot Heaney after receiving a good hip to hip challenge from Davis just after picking the ball up goes down holding his face, cue a load of booing and the ref panics and Tony gets marched.

Oops, stand corrected. Thanks.

Match bans have to be introduced both in county and club games. County boards don't help either interfering with county player suspensions.

megadodge

look what happened to Joe Canning a fine hurler who has never played the game since

Not for one second condoning what happened, but Canning certainly has played since. He was the outstanding player in the Fitzgibbon Cup this year.

EARMUFFS

patmac wrote:

He was just an example of how one county depends on one player who gets targeted and provoked into retaliation for which he got suspended and quite rightly so, so thanks for highlighting my point.
Westmeath won Leinster in 2004 first game of 2005 Westmeath leading by three points midway through the first half against Kildare and Dessie Dolan gets taken out off the ball which no official spots and misses the rest of the season.
So two examples of thuggery which is way too prevalent in this game I mean look what happened to Joe Canning a fine hurler who has never played the game since. We could go on but instead of nickpicking peoples points why don't we try and do something about it.

I was in the Cusack for that Westmeath Kildare game in 2005 as part of the double header and saw the incident. I could not believe that the linesman didn't see it. Then again even if he did i'd imagine the ref would have been told "argie bargy give the kildare player a yellow". By the way I can't remember the players involved just remember that Dolan had to go off.

blackbelt

Patmac,I have nothing against you or Westmeath.I do have a cousin playing for Westmeath ie David Duffy and shout for them in their matches which don't concern Dublin or Mayo.I do not think the smaller counties top player is targeted to the extent like you have mentioned.Dear old Mattie Forde has been the subject of ridicule after that stamp on the Offaly player and to my knowledge teams like Galway and Dublin didn't try to take out any of Westmeaths top guns last year.

The absence of those players in a match does affect the players but when the Lilywhites played Westmeath and beat them after Dolan went off,they showed that as far as the rest of the team was concerned they were the all around better team on the day.Its not as if it was 15 v 14 for Kildare but I do accept your anger in that,I would be too.

Pride Fighter

When I used to play gaelic football backs always tried to intimidate me into playing a poor game. Insulting and abusive behaviour on their part never worked so I was physically assaulted once, off the ball of course. I hit back a few times and gave as good as I got. His tactics worked tbh. I only scored a point that day and played poorly. Striking is part and parcel of the game and I have found that it is accepted as long as its not in front of the ref. It needs to be rooted out of the game and new policies are the key. It was said earlier that unless you damage the guy you are going to get a yellow card, true. Perhaps a 10 minute sin bin like in rugby could be a great idea as our game is closer in physicality to rugby than it is to soccer.

An Citeog

Pride Fighter wrote:

When I used to play gaelic football backs always tried to intimidate me into playing a poor game. Insulting and abusive behaviour on their part never worked so I was physically assaulted once, off the ball of course. I hit back a few times and gave as good as I got. His tactics worked tbh. I only scored a point that day and played poorly. Striking is part and parcel of the game and I have found that it is accepted as long as its not in front of the ref. It needs to be rooted out of the game and new policies are the key. It was said earlier that unless you damage the guy you are going to get a yellow card, true. Perhaps a 10 minute sin bin like in rugby could be a great idea as our game is closer in physicality to rugby than it is to soccer.

Unfortunately that wont solve anything. The problem isn't with the rules themselves, rather with the consistency in which they are enforced. The GAA tried that a couple of years ago in the league with a yellow card meaning that a player had to be subbed off and it completely destroyed games imo. A yellow card can be given for a punch, a jersey pull, a trip or something completely innocuous. The rules just need to be enforced properly and it's up to the referees to do that.