where did i go wrong???

dougee19

had around 1000 to 1100 in front of me, 1/2 live cash game, pot limit
raised to 10 from an early player i call on the small blind, bb calls and an early limper so 4 to the flop

the villian here just came to the table, drunk but not playing horribly, doubled up a few times and has roughly 750

i have 10-8 hearts
flop comes 7h-9h-10s

i check next player bets 10 folder and then the raiser calls, i re-pot it to 85 and get 2 callers

turn comes 4d
i bet out 90, he min raises to 180 and the other player goes all in for 140 ish
i decide to flat call, he was too much of a deep stack i think to push, im not sure... thats where i'm confused

river comes kd and i check he bets 50, call just because for some unknown reason i think i have him, yes, weird i know

i dont...


just wondering if i shoul have pumped the turn or was it the right move just to flat call to see if i hit..

let me know what ye think

DeVore

Do you have any expectations of how they play, what they might be holding or how likely they are to fold a draw or weak hand?

While you have a big drawing hand I worry that you might be drawing dead or thin when both call a strong reraise on the flop.
I dont like the bet out on the turn, but I'm exhausted right now so these are my immediate thoughts, plus I've been playing every day in Vegas which plays weird and I think has made me kinda bonkers.

DeV.

dougee19

DeVore wrote:

Do you have any expectations of how they play, what they might be holding or how likely they are to fold a draw or weak hand?

While you have a big drawing hand I worry that you might be drawing dead or thin when both call a strong reraise on the flop.
I dont like the bet out on the turn, but I'm exhausted right now so these are my immediate thoughts, plus I've been playing every day in Vegas which plays weird and I think has made me kinda bonkers.

DeV.

the way that the short stack was pushing i knew for a fact i was ahead of him and he was drawing, not sure if it was to a flush or to a straight, either could be possible, he was in the state of mind that the lone 8 would do.
was thinking that i should create the big sidepot anyway if i was ahead of the other guy with the big stack but was too afraid to pull the trigger

i had been loose aggrssive but every time i was called i showed the winning hand so was confused by the raise

he wasnt the best of players but knew what he was doing and was kinda tight preflop but a bit of a station on the flop, this was his first pot with a big stack so unsure how he plays, only played 7 hands there so no big reads

RedJoker

That was a very small turn bet given the size of the pot.

dougee19

RedJoker wrote:

That was a very small turn bet given the size of the pot.

i was pretty confident i was ahead, wanted callers and was happy in my position, the turn raise confused me, thinking back on it i dont see how that helped him really and if i was ahead on the flop i should have raised the turn again.

tacker

I think you played it fine.

careca

I agree with Redpoker, your turn bet was terrible. You say you were ahead but only bet that amount as you wanted callers. Suicidal, giving them those odds (90 into a pot of 280 approx). As Dev say, what were you putting them both on, middle pair or bottom pair.

If you tank the turn, anyone with QJ or K9, will probably let it go (and if they call great cos they are not getting the odds to call). If you are reraised you now have a decision to come to as you are def behind. By betting so little you got yourself into all kinds of trouble.

kryogen

Besides the terrible bet on the turn the hand is ok, you have to call his min raise, but if the stacks are deepish,theres not much point in re rasing again here as you are certainly behind and guaranteed to be called, and the check call river is fine too.

I would bet more on the turn in future, you cant really raise to 85 on flop and bet 90 on turn!

whats the villain like tho? what do you put him on on the flop? on the turn?

mdwexford

dougee19 wrote:

i was pretty confident i was ahead, wanted callers and was happy in my position, the turn raise confused me, thinking back on it i dont see how that helped him really and if i was ahead on the flop i should have raised the turn again.

this is ridiculous

Ace2007

yea the turn bet was terrible...

Gus Ivey

definitely have to put more in on the turn. i hate playing these hands OOP

phantom_lord

i'd just call the flop bet.

mdwexford

i dont mind the check raise on the flop, i wouldnt have made it so much though, maybe 50.

dunno what the best line is on the turn though, i think with the stacks so deep i prefer a check call than to lead, maybe.

fuzzbox

mdwexford wrote:

i dont mind the check raise on the flop, i wouldnt have made it so much though, maybe 50.

dunno what the best line is on the turn though, i think with the stacks so deep i prefer a check call than to lead, maybe.

Why are you check raising small (or at all), if you want to check/call the turn if you are called on the flop?

mdwexford

fuzzbox wrote:

Why are you check raising small (or at all), if you want to check/call the turn if you are called on the flop?

because i dont want to take down the pot on the flop, i want to build the pot because i have a huge hand.

when we miss the turn i think check calling might be better because if you lead for say 160 (if i had made it 50 and got 2 callers) and the big stack shoves you have to fold. id rather call a pot sized bet out of him or else get a free card

fuzzbox

mdwexford wrote:

because i dont want to take down the pot on the flop, i want to build the pot because i have a huge hand.

You want to build a pot so you prefer to check raise SMALL than large?

when we miss the turn i think check calling might be better because if you lead for say 160 (if i had made it 50 and got 2 callers) and the big stack shoves you have to fold. id rather call a pot sized bet out of him or else get a free card

Why do you believe that if you bet, you should fold to a shove, yet you would happily check/call a full pot bet?

mdwexford

if i check raise a full pot bet there is a chance of them folding which i dont want.

if theres 190 in the pot and i lead for 160, the guy pushes for 690. so its costing me 530 to win 1040, less than 2/1. actually presuming we need to hit a straight or a flush on the river to win the hand we are just under 2/1 to make our hand so i suppose it would be a call.

you prefer to lead the turn than to check call then??

fuzzbox

mdwexford wrote:

if i check raise a full pot bet there is a chance of them folding which i dont want.

if theres 190 in the pot and i lead for 160, the guy pushes for 690. so its costing me 530 to win 1040, less than 2/1. actually presuming we need to hit a straight or a flush on the river to win the hand we are just under 2/1 to make our hand so i suppose it would be a call.

you prefer to lead the turn than to check call then??

I was questioning your logic, not offering a different solution.

kryogen

fuzzbox wrote:

I was questioning your logic, not offering a different solution.

definatly the post of the thread!

mdwexford

fuzzbox wrote:

I was questioning your logic, not offering a different solution.

i see, and what is your verdict on my logic

MrPillowTalk

Lead the flop.

Pot the turn, call an all in.

As played after he raises the turn flat calling is ok, calling the milk bet on the end is weak.

dougee19

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Lead the flop.

Pot the turn, call an all in.

As played after he raises the turn flat calling is ok, calling the milk bet on the end is weak.

i know it was weak but had a kinda gut feeling.... normally throw away for value bets but didnt see him as being too strong

turned out he had k9 so read wasnt TOO far off