Air conditioning or Climate Control help

Kinetic^

Basically my folks are looking for a car atm and want air conditioning or climate control in it but there's not that many cars out there which they want that have it........can you get it installed?

BostonB

Kenny 5 wrote:

Basically my folks are looking for a car atm and want air conditioning or climate control in it but there's not that many cars out there which they want that have it........can you get it installed?

It would cost too much to be worth while. What car are they looking at that doesn't have it as an option?

GrumPy

Whats the difference?

Kinetic^

BostonB wrote:

It would cost too much to be worth while. What car are they looking at that doesn't have it as an option?

Looking at either of the following saloons: Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Mitsubishi Lancer or Nissan Almera........2002/03,manual and and maximum of 1.5ltr engine and under €10k

bazz26

Kenny 5 wrote:

Looking at either of the following saloons: Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Mitsubishi Lancer or Nissan Almera........2002/03,manual and and maximum of 1.5ltr engine and under €10k

Try and look for a UK or Jap import. Alot if not most of these have air conditioning as standard. Irish cars are generally lower spec to keep costs down due to VRT.

Very hard to find air conditioning or climate control as standard on cars of this class back then.

Something like these:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=742390
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=746448
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=738728

Kinetic^

Thanks for finding those.

Should've said as well........no more than 50k miles and no more than 2 owners. I'm pretty sure there's more as well :rolleyes: Fussy fùckers!!!!!
Also being sold by a dealer as well.

Gregor Samsa

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Whats the difference?

As I understand it, air conditioning just cools the air and is just either on or off, while climate control lets you set the exact temperature. So CC is a configurable type of AC.

kleefarr

phutyle wrote:

As I understand it, air conditioning just cools the air and is just either on or off, while climate control lets you set the exact temperature. So CC is a configurable type of AC.

I don't know about anyone else, but I set the temperature of my AC by using the heat control.

BostonB

Kenny 5 wrote:

Thanks for finding those.

Should've said as well........no more than 50k miles and no more than 2 owners. I'm pretty sure there's more as well :rolleyes: Fussy fùckers!!!!!
Also being sold by a dealer as well.

Generally AC is on the higher spec models. So when you are searching Carzone look for the high spec model its usually in the description.

BostonB

kleefarr wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but I set the temperature of my AC by using the heat control.

AC also can also be used to heat. Useful in the winter because it dehumidifies the air and keeps the windows crystal clear from fogging.

AC is just a manual setting. Climate control as was set earlier, you set a temp and it maintains that.

Jack Bauer999

BostonB wrote:

Generally AC is on the higher spec models. So when you are searching Carzone look for the high spec model its usually in the description.

Is air conditioning not the usual temp/fan knobs as in the attached pic?

Is that not standard on most cars?!

BostonB

Kenny 5 wrote:

Looking at either of the following saloons: Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Mitsubishi Lancer or Nissan Almera........2002/03,manual and and maximum of 1.5ltr engine and under €10k

Problem with that spec is that because AC sucks power from the engine its usually only found on bigger engines, and thus bigger cars. Well back 02-03 at least. If you up your scope to include 1.6-1.8 you get a lot more hits, most of them on fords. A lot more fords seem to have AC. Mondeo/Focus 1.6 etc. Another car is the Primera and Mazda 6 in 1.8.

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&CategoryID=1&MakeID=&xMakeID=&ColourID=&xColourID=&xModelID=&Doors=4&BodyID=4248&Engine_Min=1500&Year_Min=2002&Engine_Max=1800&Year_Max=2003&Price_Min=8000&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=10&xCountyID=10&Price_Max=10000&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=1&Mileage_Max=&Mileage_Max_integer=Max+mileage+entered+was+not+an+integer.&SortBy=priceAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=extended&submit=Find+%3E%3E

mike65

Air con is the little snowdrop/ice button on Climate Control or a blue button (usually) on the standard heater controls.

Mike.

crosstownk

Jack Bauer999 wrote:

Is air conditioning not the usual temp/fan knobs as in the attached pic?

Is that not standard on most cars?!

The pic you posted shows a Ford Focus with standard heating & ventilation - not air conditioning. Air conditioning uses a compressor and other components to chill the air (much like a fridge) and can cool the air to a temperature below ambient air temperature. Usually there is an 'A/C' button or a button with a snowflake symbol on it.

BostonB

Jack Bauer999 wrote:

Is air conditioning not the usual temp/fan knobs as in the attached pic?

Is that not standard on most cars?!

No its not standard. Thats just regular air/ventilation controls. AC is basically a fridge that blows out really cold air.

bigtimecharlie

With the standard heater controls, when the knob is turned to cold, you only get unheated outside air into the cabin. In the summer this is far from ideal so if you turn on ( or press the) air con, then the incoming unheated outside air is chilled ( fridge like) and this cold air enters the cabin.

You can control the temp of this chilled incoming air by adding heat to raise it's base temp by turning the heater control knob away from cold until the cabin temp is comfortable (this is conventional heating still working along side air con) .

Climate control just automates this process where the desired temp is entered and the system uses air con and heat to control the cabin temp.

Kinetic^

Explained all of this to them and they've decided to up to a 1.6 Avensis. Have spotted one and gotting to call about it in the morning. *fingers crossed*

bazz26

Ford Focus 1.6 Ghia saloon has air conditioning.

Nissan Primera from 2002 also has climate control as standard.

Kinetic^

They no likey Fords. Will check out the Primeras. Thanks for the help.

colm_mcm

This is my understanding of it:

Standard heater: knobs with no thermostat, hot cold, and in between

Climate control without air conditioning (fitted to 03 on Almera) has digital readout with thermostat and automatic changing of air direction depending on temperature selected

Air conditioning: knobs with no thermostat, hot, very cold, and in between

Automatic Air Conditioning: thermostat on heater knob, maintains desired temp. "Auto" position on fan to automatically vary fan speed to maintain temperature.

Digital Climate Control: choose temperature using buttons and display, maintains desired temp. usually manual override of fan control and air direction

galwaytt

colm_mcm wrote:

This is my understanding of it:

Standard heater: knobs with no thermostat, hot cold, and in between Yesh

Climate control without air conditioning (fitted to 03 on Almera) has digital readout with thermostat and automatic changing of air direction depending on temperature selectedThis is not air conditioning - it's still only a standard heater/air blender, but with a termostat on it

Air conditioning: knobs with no thermostat, hot, very cold, and in betweenAircon on it's own is just refrigerated air. Your heater still works as normal, beside it, so technically, as a poster mentioned, you could pump in hot air, while a/c button is pressed, to up the temp from freezing....

Automatic Air Conditioning: thermostat on heater knob, maintains desired temp. "Auto" position on fan to automatically vary fan speed to maintain temperature. This is climate control, with knobs.

Digital Climate Control: choose temperature using buttons and display, maintains desired temp. usually manual override of fan control and air directionThis is climate control, with buttons

My 0.02, as they say..

Caliden

My dad's A4 has Air con. Set it to the lowest setting (15 degrees C) and enjoy!

Feels so good getting into the really cold car when it's roasting hot outside

Henry Ford III

Caliden wrote:

My dad's A4 has Air con. Set it to the lowest setting (15 degrees C) and enjoy!

Feels so good getting into the really cold car when it's roasting hot outside

I think your dad's car has climate control!

A/c can be set hotter or colder manually, using a rotary knob.

MercMad

To clarify,

Air Conditioning is a basic system which chills the air, ytou manually select the temperature and the fan blower speed.

Climate Control is more expensive, includes the above, but also lets you decide the temperature that you require in the cabin and it will automatically control the air mix and blower speed to get you there asap and afterwards, using sensors in various parts of the cabin, it will maintain it without your input !

Basically A/C is terrific, but CC is far superior in every way.

The digital display and readouts have nothing to do with the ability of the system they are purely an attempt to simplify the controls !

You can of course then get into the systems that you can pre-set, so that your car is chilled, or heated, before you get to it each evening/morning !

Stephen

I thought that AC was commonplace on 7th generation Honda Civics? Maybe that was in the UK though, not here in VRT land

Kinetic^

Avensis was sold so checking out a Primera this afternoon.

E92

Avensis didnt boast Air Con till the new model came out in 2003. (well it did, if you're prepared to look for a hard to find 1.8 or 2.0 Sol version, which actually have semi Climate Control, and not full Climate Control, and then theres the Manual Climate Control as fitted to MkV Golfs everywhere but Ireland till the start of this year, when we finally got it fitted as standard:D ). In theory, it was possible to get a 1.6 Aura with chilled air before then, but most people(stupidly) chose the sunroof in lieu of Air Con.

As was mentioned before, the big benefit of aircon or climate control is in Winter, as it will defog the car infinately quicker, and prevents the car for re fogging up again, if the fan is at a high enoughh speed.Oddly enough, I think that that is the real benefit of having aircon/climate control in our climate, unlike most people who think aircon is just for the hot days, its actually a lot more useful IMO when its cold or wet. We dont really get the type of weather that makes aircon worthwhile in the summer, you need to go to somewhere a good bit hotter, where it is a life saver.
The benefits of aircon in the summer(though not really this summer, it hasn't exactly been terribly warm) are well known.


As for which is better, Climate Control is the easiest thing in the world to use, simply press the Auto button, the make sure the vents are open and the aircon button is on, and press the temperature control until you find the desired temperature, and it does the rest. Climate Control usually has 3 extra features over and above this, which are not found on aircon; a solar sensor, which means the climate control will compensate for the sun shining in on the car by turning up the fan automatically, a deforst button, which when pressed will automatically send the fan onto full speed and send all the air to the windscreen and side windows, turns on the aircon if it isnt already on, and in some cases puts the heater on to full heat too. Lastly if you want to be burned alive of frozen to death(metaphorically:D ), theres the hi/lo functions, and as their names suggest, the lo function puts on maximum cooling, and high puts on maximum heating.
Some of the more expensive cars also have automatic air recirculation, which can detect if theres bad smells or dirty air etc outside, and prevents this from entering the cabin.

Air Con is all DIY, as with a normal heating system. The truth is that unless you're really lazy, aircon will do just fine. It will still cool the car as well as climate control, and when used properly will still prevent the car from fogging up in winter.
A common belief is that airconuses more fuel, and it does when it is on. But opening windows uses a lot more fuel than many people think, especially at high speeds.

yellow012

E92 wrote:

We dont really get the type of weather that makes aircon worthwhile in the summer, you need to go to somewhere a good bit hotter, where it is a life saver.
The benefits of aircon in the summer(though not really this summer, it hasn't exactly been terribly warm) are well known.

QUOTE]

Every time I read a statement like this I always think the author of it has never been in a car with CC or A/C in there life. I've dual zone CC in my car and most of the time I leave it at 19d + on the auto setting, so that on a typical Irish summer day like yesterday when one minute its 21 degrees the sun shining and the next minute you have monsoon rain conditions and the temp has dropped to 14 or 15 degrees the cabin air temp doesn't change. If the missus is travelling with me she usually prefers to have her side a bit warmer so she can do that. I would never, ever go back to a car without CC.

MercMad

Yep I have my climate control set to 19 deg "Auto" and its been that way since the day I bought it !

JoeA3

yellow012 wrote:

E92 wrote:

We dont really get the type of weather that makes aircon worthwhile in the summer, you need to go to somewhere a good bit hotter, where it is a life saver.
The benefits of aircon in the summer(though not really this summer, it hasn't exactly been terribly warm) are well known.

QUOTE]

Every time I read a statement like this I always think the author of it has never been in a car with CC or A/C in there life. I've dual zone CC in my car and most of the time I leave it at 19d + on the auto setting, so that on a typical Irish summer day like yesterday when one minute its 21 degrees the sun shining and the next minute you have monsoon rain conditions and the temp has dropped to 14 or 15 degrees the cabin air temp doesn't change. If the missus is travelling with me she usually prefers to have her side a bit warmer so she can do that. I would never, ever go back to a car without CC.

agreed!

copacetic

yellow012 wrote:

E92 wrote:

We dont really get the type of weather that makes aircon worthwhile in the summer, you need to go to somewhere a good bit hotter, where it is a life saver.
The benefits of aircon in the summer(though not really this summer, it hasn't exactly been terribly warm) are well known.

Every time I read a statement like this I always think the author of it has never been in a car with CC or A/C in there life. I've dual zone CC in my car and most of the time I leave it at 19d + on the auto setting, so that on a typical Irish summer day like yesterday when one minute its 21 degrees the sun shining and the next minute you have monsoon rain conditions and the temp has dropped to 14 or 15 degrees the cabin air temp doesn't change. If the missus is travelling with me she usually prefers to have her side a bit warmer so she can do that. I would never, ever go back to a car without CC.

another +1 for this, since having the dual zone climate ctrl I could never get a car without it. this summer its been very humid and warm, i use it every day to keep the car cool. the dual zone is surprisingly useful as mentioned above, invariably your passenger wants to be warmer than you..

MarkN

E92 wrote:

We dont really get the type of weather that makes aircon worthwhile in the summer, you need to go to somewhere a good bit hotter, where it is a life saver.

Jesus I have my car less than 19 degrees most of the whole year round!

Days like today, windows up, set on LO LO.. heaven. Couldn't do without now.. I'd even say I don't miss a sunroof when I have climate.

colm_mcm

E92 wrote:

In theory, it was possible to get a 1.6 Aura with chilled air before then, but most people(stupidly) chose the sunroof in lieu of Air Con.

Availibility had a lot to do with what people bought, Toyota brought in way more Auras with sunroof than they did with A/C

BostonB

E92 wrote:

....
A common belief is that airconuses more fuel, and it does when it is on. But opening windows uses a lot more fuel than many people think, especially at high speeds.

I still don't think having a window open is half as hard on fuel as AC. On my car when I turn on AC you can feel the drain on power immediately. Its like 4 people just got in the car. Opening the window at a speed doesn't have anything like the same effect. That said it usually too noisy to have the windows open at speed with todays streamlined shapes.

I used to like sunroofs, but after having a car with AC I prefer that. Especially in our damp climate for clearing the windows. Its great at cooling but my fuel economy takes a big hit.

colm_mcm

what's your car BostonB. I find it frains the power on some cars, and on others it doesn't seem to have an effect.

JoeA3

I've never noticed a power-drain in my cars with climate control switched on (A3 and VW Golf). I think I read someplace that newer systems are more efficient, in fact I think the VW's automatically "switches off" when it detects the driver accelerating rapidly.
That said, I remember driving my mother's Fiesta and there certainly was a drop in power when you turned on the A/C (or the radio:D)

Neither have I ever noticed any difference in fuel economy.

BostonB

Older 16v so all the power/torque is above 4k so thats probably why. As you say newer AC units probably need less power.

Stephen

The climate control in my car has no noticeable effect on power. I would think that at high speeds opening the window would be worse because of the extra drag it would cause.
I remember they tried to test this on mythbusters but they used big box-shaped gas-guzzling American SUV's driving around in circles to test it, rather than aerodynamically efficient vehicles.

BostonB

Stephen wrote:

The climate control in my car has no noticeable effect on power. I would think that at high speeds opening the window would be worse because of the extra drag it would cause.
I remember they tried to test this on mythbusters but they used big box-shaped gas-guzzling American SUV's driving around in circles to test it, rather than aerodynamically efficient vehicles.

Also using huge engines wouldn't be the same as our smaller engines. Still...

Windows down vs. air conditioning

"Urban puzzle": it is more efficient, on a hot day, to run with the A/C on and windows up than to run with windows down (b/c of increasing car's drag).

Computer-based mpg measurements:

* 11.7/11.8 with A/C on and windows up
* 11.7/11.8 with A/C off and windows up
* 11.3 with A/C off and windows down

So, according to the computer, it's better to use A/C with windows up.

This was too quick and easy for TV, so they decided to stage a seven hour marathon, race-til-you're-empty duel, with Jamie driving an SUV with A/C on and Adam driving an SUV with windows down. Though, once the safety inspector intervened, it was no longer a seven-hour marathon, it was a bit slower (45mph instead of 55mph), and a lot shorter (only 5 gallons each).

Jamie's A/C car ran out of gas first -- Adam's windows down SUV ran for another 30 laps -- completely contradicting the computer mpg estimate. Computer estimate based on air flow into the engine, so it would appear that it is unable to properly model the difference between A/C and windows down.

Mythbusted

30 laps is a lot longer because of no AC

http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2004/11/mythbusters_boom_lift_catapult.html

Last time around, in "AC vs. Windows Down", the MythBusters concluded that using AC was more efficient than opening your windows to cool down. However, they quickly admit that they were wrong to make such a hasty confirmation. In fact, they find that over 50 mph, you're better off with your windows open your AC on, but slower than that, use the AC open your windows. Myth busted. (Yes, I heard them wrong. So sue me. -- Ed.)

http://www.tvsquad.com/2005/10/17/mythbusters-mythbusters-revisited/

I'd say it probably depends on the specific car, the type of journey and the style of driving.

Anan1

If Mythbusters used two vehicles then their results can be disregarded.