Dublins preformance sunday

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Anybody else think dublin could have done a lot better sunday? They relaxd way too much in the second half, and allowed laois in for 2 great goal chances. They never finished them off properly, they kinda ran down the clock. If they are going to win sam, this will have to be improved.
Only 3 teams can wil the all ireland this year, dublin, kerry and tyrone. Personaly i think it will be either dublin or kerry

Waylander

Firstly I think Tyrone and Kerry are a good ways ahed of Dublin, but Dublin are on the right track. To me, Dublin have not put in a convincing performance yet this year, they have beated 2 mediocre teams and 1 poor team (Offaly). I also think Cork are on a par with Dublin, and Donegal, and possibly Galway (despite the Connaught Final) are not too far away. Galway lost to Sligo, I did not see that match, and struggled against Leitrim, but against Leitrim, they looked like a much better team, but it just was not happening for them on the day.

Be ready for a long and bitter thread about blue tinted glasses and such BS, and about how over hyped Dublin get every year. Lots of objective posters in this forum where Dublin are concerned.

One Cold Hand

Yes Dublin can certainly improve. The main worry for me was the half back line, Casey in particular. Yes Laois got one or two good goal chances but remember once Dublin got their 3rd goal Laois went for goals the whole time and insisted on running every ball. So it was inevitable they would get one or two chances.
Dublin were 8 points up with 10 mins to go and Laois were going nowhere. It was only then that they started to run the clock down. But they did have a shakey 15 mins before that when they didn't score too often.

Yes they can improve but this in itself was an imrpovement from the Offaly game so I'm happy enough.

One Cold Hand

Also I would currently put Tyrone as favourites, Kerry next and then Dublin. Although the margin between all of them would be marginal. Cork and Galway after that, although Galway were awful against Sligo.

TomMc

They probably can be that little sharper but playing for 70mins is not their style - beyond them. They do not seem to be able to pace themselves for a consistent approach for an entire game so play in spurts, then take a breather. They also are a team where confidence is paramount. They rise to the occasion and fans etc and when things are going well, brings out the best in them. But their heads also seem to drop much easier when things aren't going their way. While they play with real intensity, it is within a comfort zone of sorts. Against Kerry or Tyrone in championship mode this would really test their metal. No where to hide there, it's 100% or get a hiding to nothing. It would be a major examination which I think they would struggle with.

In the case of Tyrone or Kerry, the openings afforded to Laois would be punished and clinically so. Whats more these teams have backs who can come forward and slot over points any forward line would be proud of. All these scores ad up to a tally which would probably be beyond the Dubs unless they produced the performance of the season (and throughout the team).

Well thats the theory - Things start to get interesting from here onwards.

TomMc

Dublin also impose their style of play on the match in general and their opposition, so it is either all-out action or a quiet spell. They rattle teams when they make a blitz but afford them the opportunity to get back at them when they take a rest. This allows the opposing team a purple-patch of sorts in each match. This works for them against most teams.

When you play a Kerry or Tyrone they do not allow you to dictate the pattern of play. They do. No fits and spurts catered for here, its take your chances when you get them and be on your guard for the sucker punch at any given moment.

popebenny16

Waylander wrote:

Firstly I think Tyrone and Kerry are a good ways ahed of Dublin, but Dublin are on the right track. To me, Dublin have not put in a convincing performance yet this year, they have beated 2 mediocre teams and 1 poor team (Offaly). I also think Cork are on a par with Dublin, and Donegal, and possibly Galway (despite the Connaught Final) are not too far away. Galway lost to Sligo, I did not see that match, and struggled against Leitrim, but against Leitrim, they looked like a much better team, but it just was not happening for them on the day.

Actually, I agree with you 90% - the only bit I don't agree with is the convincing performance bit. We have been - in phases that last 20 mins or thereabouts. I personally don't think we can do that over 70 mins - it is impossible. Perhaps what we saw in the second half on Sunday was a change in tactic, to take the foot off the gas somewhat in case it was needed for a big ending. This is not an excuse for bad wides though, they were still there, but I've seen Shane Ryan (for one) wrecked at the end of games this year and we'll need the likes of him to be on a constant level over the entire match.

Don't forget, Caffrey spoke about "control". I thought he meant the reaction to falling behind in the first half (all the bad memories came flooding back at the time lol) but in retrospect maybe he meant the second half?

After all is said and done I listened to Ciaran Whelan and Jason Sherlock yesterday, and they were very calm, focused on the next match, which should be Cork. I have no doubts but that the Cork lads will be a match for the Dubs, it should be a very good game.

Waylander

Yeah PB I know it is difficult to keep that level up for an entire match. But in both matches against Meath, Dublin went 15 minute period in either half without scoring, I think the same against Offaly, but Offaly were to poor a team to capitalise. The Laois match was slightly different in that when we pulled ahead they never looked like getting back into it and we could afford to take our foot off. I felt in both matches against Meath, we should have been able to put them away, but went through these dry spells. You simply cannot afford to not score for 50% of the game against the likes of Tyrone and Kerry. They will cricify you!

popebenny16

Yep, again we're seeing the same old failings being talked about.... rapid start to both halves, usually a rapid end to the first half as well, and usually we have the dozing off in the middle period of the second.

I think what happens is the some teams just say, to hell with it lets just try and get a few points and they tack a few on, then they start running at the Dublin defence and get a few more, and before you know it the force is with them and Dublin seem to freeze.

I think that if you deny us the ball for any appreciable length of time we find it very hard to get back into gear. Interestingly, in the Offaly game there was a long break for injuries... then we fell asleep. Same on Sunday, after the third goal, a break... we fell asleep then found it hard to get into gear again.

Also, Laois ran at the defence and twice cut us open in the second half, Meath did the same sometimes at will. Our backs hold off way too long, and also can be found dreadfully out of position at times. Laois tried to smother any Dublin possession, we allowed them the waltz. Now, if, of course, the scoreline says it all then all it says is that it was equal in points and we only got the two extra scores in the end.

Killme00

The most enjoyable thing about Sundays performace was the fact that Dublin did not panic when they concede the goal. The kept going and scored a few points to get back in the game. This is vital...keeping your head up and plugging away is vital. There are tougher games down the road and obviously too many ditractions but the signs are good.

The most worrying aspect to the game was the amount of space afforded to Laosi by the Dublin backs and midfield. This needs to be sorted and quickly because as someone has already pointed out, both Tyrone and Kerry have half backs who are capable of and prepared to venture into that space to slot easy points. At the end of the day, the easy points win the close games.

One Cold Hand

popebenny16 wrote:

Yep, again we're seeing the same old failings being talked about.... rapid start to both halves, usually a rapid end to the first half as well, and usually we have the dozing off in the middle period of the second.

Interestingly we got off to a terrible start against Laois. They scored 1-2 before we blinked. In a strange way I was kinda glad to see it, to see how we would react. I suppose in these games it's good to see things happening that take us out of our comfort zone. For example we played into the hill in the first half, not something we would normally do. So if it happens in the latter stages (like the Mayo game last year) it should have as much an effect on us.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

One Cold Hand wrote:

once Dublin got their 3rd goal Laois went for goals the whole time and insisted on running every ball. So it was inevitable they would get one or two chances.
.

that is true, i lost count of the amount of chances laois had to score points from their 21 yard line in the second half, but they kept working the ball in to the full foward line and the dublin defence cleared it. there was at least 3 or 4 times they did this when it was just a matter of tapping the ball over the bar. If they scored them, it would have made for an exciting finish

kaimera

The game was over once the 3rd goal went in really. You can't fault DUB for sitting back some.

Against one of the bigger teams tho it could be a different story but this being GAA you never know

Waylander

Like against Mayo last year Kai? I can blame them when they have a history of throwing away those kind of leads. They cannot justify feeling comfortable. As the lads say if Laois had picked off points they would have got back in the game.

kaimera

Whether we'd scored those points or not wouldn't have matter a tap tbqh.

DUB need a better challenge than Leinster football can provide imo.

Waylander

I dont disagree with that, but there is no harm picking up the right habits now, it makes it easier in the next rounds.

kaimera

Touché! I concur.

DiscoHugh

It must be damn frustrating for Caffrey to see Dublin repeatedly go through these dry patches in games....I assume it s not a "tactic" that s passed down from management.... as others have said the big guns will have no mercy on us if we continue to play that way.

Tazdedub

Sundays performance was a good performance, best we have seen this year so far and hopefully it will continue. There are still some worrisome aspects to Dublin that means we are not up to the level of Kerry and Tyrone.

Firstly in defence we need to be tighter to our men. Far to many times on Sunday some of the Dublin defenders were giving to much room to the Laois forwards especially in the first half. They tightened up a lot more in the second but if we did that against a Kerry or Tyrone I think we would be punished.

Midfield were strong on Sunday but still they went quiet. I think the 20 minute quiet spells that Dublin are suffering in games is probably down to this fact. I think we need at least one more midfielder that we can introduce mid way through the second half to pick up the pace once it begins to drop.

Forwards did well on Sunday especially with chasing back. Still taking the wrong options though. I think there were more goals there on sunday if the forwards had of taken the right decision.

Also as a whole I think the Dublin team need to get more ruthless and not ease off on teams. I think the scoreline would have been bigger on sunday if they had of kept going at Laois. We can ease up against anyone at this stage of the championship or else we will be punished.

blackbelt

Killme00 wrote:

The most enjoyable thing about Sundays performace was the fact that Dublin did not panic when they concede the goal. The kept going and scored a few points to get back in the game. This is vital...keeping your head up and plugging away is vital. There are tougher games down the road and obviously too many ditractions but the signs are good.

The most worrying aspect to the game was the amount of space afforded to Laosi by the Dublin backs and midfield. This needs to be sorted and quickly because as someone has already pointed out, both Tyrone and Kerry have half backs who are capable of and prepared to venture into that space to slot easy points. At the end of the day, the easy points win the close games.

Spot on.

EARMUFFS

Ok first post in the GAA forum and a bit of a rant so apologies!
First off. Lets review the Leinster Championship. Meath beat Kildare take Dublin to a replay and beat Fermanagh uconvincingly. Louth beat Wicklow after 3 games and lose to Wexford who in turn are beaten by Laois. Louth beat Limerick and then shock Kildare. Dublin win Leinster by six points after beating the same team last year by 14 points. To get to the chase Dublin do the minimum to win the Leinster Title. Meath could have knocked them out but they survive and beat a mediocre Laois. They obviously can only beat whats put in front of them but all 3 leinster titles have a familiar look to them.
Now lets look at their all ireland credentials. Save for three positional changes this Dublin team have the same look as the previous 2 years. Whats changed? Vaughan McConnell and B Brogan. Whelan, judging by the media reporting seems to be playing the best he's played in years. Is he playing better than Sean Cavanagh or Dara O Se? Vaughan and Quinn as far as i can see are interchangeable and neither are of Stephen O'Neill or Colm Cooper quality. McConnell is getting better but unfortunately is error prone. The more i see of B Brogan the more impressive he is but again experience counts against him.
So as far as i can see nothing much has changed in this Dublin team. They are still very fit, they still have 10/15 minute spells of attacking prowess but Leinster has done them no favours. Their bench is still weak with guys knowing that no matter how they train or play in training Caffrey has his mind made up on selection. So how has anything changed to make them win an All Ireland?

Waylander

The only thing I disagree with is your statement that Mossie and Vaughn are interchageable. I think from a deadball Vaughn is allot more reliable, and this has been a huge issue in recent years. I do think this makes us stronger than last year, but do not think it puts us in the same league as Kerry or Tyrone.

EARMUFFS

Waylander wrote:

The only thing I disagree with is your statement that Mossie and Vaughn are interchageable. I think from a deadball Vaughn is allot more reliable, and this has been a huge issue in recent years. I do think this makes us stronger than last year, but do not think it puts us in the same league as Kerry or Tyrone.

In fairness to Quinn he has kicked enough 50s/45's and frees in pressure situations over the last 2 years to put him on a par with Vaughan in the free taking stakes. Vaughan though is the form player and thats what counts. The only worry that you would have over Vaughan is his temperment and that isn't a worry with Quinn. Watching Vaughan playing for the U21s showed me what type of player he is. Playing in front of between 1000/2000 people bored him and caused him to start looking for aggro. Croke Park suits him and the bigger the occasion the better. However if McMenamin gets to mark him this year then we'll see how good he is!

Waylander

No if the pressure was on Mossie he missed allot more then he converted. In the first game against Meath this year he point a 45 early on in the match. He had the accuracy and distance was not a problem for that kick. It was the only one he knocked over all day from a 45, every other one dropped short. Vaughn is allot more consistent in this respect, and I am much happier with him taking the dead balls.

EARMUFFS

Quinn is out of form this year for club and county and that is why Caffrey has Vaughan there. Of course that's the way it should be. Vaughan though does have a tendency to go for the mr boombastic strike too often in my opinion.(hangover from his rugby days).

blackbelt

They may use Quinn as an impact sub for when Vaughan starts to wilt in games.Previously this would have been the other way around.Had Vaughan been in form last year and got more opportunity,who knows,we could have made the final but Quinn was on form last year.

He's only 26 but its hard to know why he isn't playing up to his usual standard.Still,it was great to see him pop one over the bar last Sunday.

Back to the team effort.I thought some of the marking and running at times was a bit lacksadaisical.It appeared as though Dublin were completely relaxed.As I've said,you won't get any peak performances from Dublin in the Leinster Championship.I'm guessing that this years Sideline DVD will have yet another match extra involving Dublin.

An Citeog

EARMUFFS wrote:

Ok first post in the GAA forum and a bit of a rant so apologies!
First off. Lets review the Leinster Championship. Meath beat Kildare take Dublin to a replay and beat Fermanagh uconvincingly. Louth beat Wicklow after 3 games and lose to Wexford who in turn are beaten by Laois. Louth beat Limerick and then shock Kildare. Dublin win Leinster by six points after beating the same team last year by 14 points. To get to the chase Dublin do the minimum to win the Leinster Title. Meath could have knocked them out but they survive and beat a mediocre Laois. They obviously can only beat whats put in front of them but all 3 leinster titles have a familiar look to them.
Now lets look at their all ireland credentials. Save for three positional changes this Dublin team have the same look as the previous 2 years. Whats changed? Vaughan McConnell and B Brogan. Whelan, judging by the media reporting seems to be playing the best he's played in years. Is he playing better than Sean Cavanagh or Dara O Se? Vaughan and Quinn as far as i can see are interchangeable and neither are of Stephen O'Neill or Colm Cooper quality. McConnell is getting better but unfortunately is error prone. The more i see of B Brogan the more impressive he is but again experience counts against him.
So as far as i can see nothing much has changed in this Dublin team. They are still very fit, they still have 10/15 minute spells of attacking prowess but Leinster has done them no favours. Their bench is still weak with guys knowing that no matter how they train or play in training Caffrey has his mind made up on selection. So how has anything changed to make them win an All Ireland?

I agree with some of what you're saying but it doesn't take a radical new team to put a county into contention. I don't agree with experience counting against B. Brogan though. There have been lots of players who have come in and played a huge role for their teams, despite a lack of experience. Donaghy came from playing with the Underdogs to winning footballer of the year and completely transforming Kerry last year. Ronan Clarke in 2002 with Armagh and plenty of other I can't think of at the moment.

Vaughan could be an absolutely unbelievable player but he thrives on confidence and being given a central role in the team. If you've ever seen him playing with Kilmacud, they tend to focus all their attacks through him and that's when he's at his best. Of course, you can't do that all the time at intercounty level. That said, his confidence seems to be sky-high at the moment and hopefully he can get better this year.

I wouldn't exactly call the bench weak, especially if we can bring bring on a player like Mossy in the forwards. He may not be on fire this year but he's still a very good intercounty player.

I don't know about winning an All-Ireland this year but it's certainly a possibility. We don't seem to have peaked yet, unlike in previous years, and that could stand us in good stead. Then again, it might not happen and we could just as easily go out in the quarters.

I certainly couldn't say with certainty if Dublin will go further than last year but it's still wide open. And that's what gives us fans that little bit of hope.

blackbelt

Winning Leinster is now elementary for Dublin.The main general consensus is that if we do not get past the quarter final,our season will be a disappointing one that may have some good points about it.We used to go mad when we won the Delaney Cup but now Sam MaGuire is the target.
Now is the time for Dublin to stop the big teams.We're in the top 5,now we should put ourselves as big contenders.Everybody is expecting a semi-final or a final while the prospect of winning Sam is more realistically taken into context.

blackbelt

In 2005 we showed great character on our way to winning Leinster by coming behind to beat Meath,Wexford and Laois.Last year we annihilated everybody we ran into while opposition accused us of playing nobody.

This year we have taken on a Meath team that has regained confidence and desire,beaten a dour Offaly team and beat a Laois team thats always up for beating Dublin.Cork are a team we would least like to draw but I feel we could take them if they get past Louth.Kerry are a team I don't think we will beat but we will give them a good game.

We've done enough to win but now we must see something really special from Dublin.

An Citeog

blackbelt wrote:

In 2005 we showed great character on our way to winning Leinster by coming behind to beat Meath,Wexford and Laois.Last year we annihilated everybody we ran into while opposition accused us of playing nobody.

This year we have taken on a Meath team that has regained confidence and desire,beaten a dour Offaly team and beat a Laois team thats always up for beating Dublin.Cork are a team we would least like to draw but I feel we could take them if they get past Louth.Kerry are a team I don't think we will beat but we will give them a good game.

We've done enough to win but now we must see something really special from Dublin.

Yeah, exactly. There is still potentially a lot more to come from this Dublin team and hopefully they can realise this.

EARMUFFS

I suppose the great/worse thing about supporting Dublin is the fact that no matter how they play or who they play against every aspect of their play is over-scrutinised. Now, the hype that surrounds the teams performances can definitely be over the top and the punditry laughable. But the facts speak for themselves. 4 Leinsters since 1995. One all ireland semi-final and no final appearances in that time. Records are there to be broken and previous years form can count for little but look at Mayo. A similar record of close calls and Connaught titles meant little to that bunch of players. Ok age may be a factor in Mayo's demise but the truth of the matter is that Dublin are not playing with any new ideas or formulas or backup plans. They had a huge opportunity last year and blew it. The same concerns are there, the same question marks. Faith and hope in their team is what drives most supporters but Dublin supporters at this stage must be recognising that faith and hope don't win All Irelands.

One Cold Hand

EARMUFFS wrote:

A similar record of close calls and Connaught titles

Mayo have been a lot closer than the Dubs to an AI. What is it, 5 finals since '96? As you said dublin have 0 appearances in the same time.

EARMUFFS

One Cold Hand wrote:

Mayo have been a lot closer than the Dubs to an AI. What is it, 5 finals since '96? As you said dublin have 0 appearances in the same time.

Just used Mayo as a comparison to Dublin winning their leinsters. No offence intended!

Pinchy85

I think people tend to forget the youth of this Dublin squad. With the exception of Whelan Ryan and Jayo the rest of the squad havent been established inter-county players for that long. For this reason I disagree with the points made above about little change from the previous couple of years. This squad is still learning and I believe they will be all the more stronger from last years defeat against Mayo. This team has yet to reach its peak, hopefully this is the year they will. I think the important thing for Dublin is to take a major scalp i.e. Tyrone or Kerry. If we do this we should be able to win the All-Ireland. If we have to beat both it will be a very tall order but hopefully it will bring about the teams coming of age.

blackbelt

Although it is hard to see Dublin defeat Tyrone and Kerry,I cannot say that we don't have the potential to do just that.On our day we can account for either.We can certainly win Sam before this decade is over at least.

Whelan and Jayo are in the twilight of their intercounty days but it is because of Whelan putting in great performances,we have gotten much further than we would have.Darren or Johnny Magee would have a tall order to take over and command in midfield in place of Whelo.

If only all our defenders were like Paul Griffin,they'd be able to cope with any full forward line ie Kerry,Galway and cork.