PC vs Apple

silvine

Can anyone recommend a good discussion about the pros and cons of switching from a PC to an Apple?

Also can anyone recommend a good Apple spec for video editing in or around the €1500 price range?

Chardee MacDennis

apple is a pc in fact it was the first personal computer. you must mean switching from windows to mac?

also i wouldnt say there is one that is not biased and a simple google will probably bring up a large amount of threads which could be helpful.

silvine

Sorry I meant Mac. Cheers.

Chardee MacDennis

this might clear it up

mathias

Also can anyone recommend a good Apple spec for video editing in or around the €1500 price range

Therein lies the only problem with macs , the prices are scandalous , €1500 will barely get you an entry level i-mac , unless you go mac mini , but a toy like that is not going to do you for video editing. Also by the time you add a decent monitor to a mac mini , plus keyboard/mouse etc , you wont have much change left.

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/irlstore?cid=OAS-EMEA-KWG-IRL_General-IRL&esvt=GOIEE100557750&esvadt=999999-0-1012022-1&esvid=100293

It would largely depend on the level of video editing you are talking about , is it just family camcorder footage , or are you making serious stuff here ?

Obviously a mac pro is €2000 plus , and for major editing jobs , a mac mini will do for the family stuff .

Given that PC hardware and Mac hardware is identical these days , really all you are paying for in Mac land is OSX and flash case , you may want to consider speccing out a video editing PC , you'll get a hell of a lot more for your money!

Cabaal

You might want to try the Mac forum for advise on Macs, to be honest if your buying a iMac or Macmini you should hold off as there's likely to be changes very soon with both systems, see http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

To be honest a mac is a good buy, got myself a Macbook while in the states in May and can't fault it, sure it was more expensive then a equal spec wintel machine but its converted me.

I've always been a die hard windows user and for years slagged people using macs but now if I was to replace my windows machine in the morning I'd choose a high spec iMac anyday

conzy

I dont see why you would want to switch to a mac for video editing, especially family / low budget stuff...

Adobe Premiere is very good, and has most of the features that FCP has...

I agree FCP is better if you are working on some big project like a feature but for anything else Premiere is more than capable....

And after using Macs and Pcs for a long time, I still prefer PC, and OSX is not a bit more user friendly than Windows, that arguement is bs......

papu

i find macs useless to work with , and i've worked with loads , windows is a much simpler OS , , too expensive for what it is

silvine

I am planning to buy a new computer and was considering making the switch as:

1 I've heard Macs are better for video editing - faster and so on

2 I've heard they are more reliable

It would be used primarily for editing home movies and digital photographs. I will also be using the new computer for doing out budgets, writing letters etc.

So €1500 won't cut it then? Would €1500 cut it for decent PC used for digital home movie editing?

Does anyone have a link for a good discussion about the pros and cons of the two? I've searched on Google but a lot of Apple promotional stuff comes up.

Thanks for the replies

Tar.Aldarion

God yes.

Blazer

quite simply macs are overpriced pc's that are bought by suckers who fall for the ingenious marketing of Apple..sure they're nice to look at but they only do the same thing as a pc.

Dont be at yourself

The price disparity is virtually non-existent for similarly specced Windows machines nowadays - especially as Vista is a lot more power hungry than OSX. Couple the fact that packages like iDVD and iMovie HD come as standard on every mac, and you'll have an excellent entry-level movie editing suite without spending an extra penny. And if you really, really want to, you can run Windows on it too.

I've had my mac just over a year now, and I feel it was the best purchase I ever made.

Tar.Aldarion

They did well with their marketing, since the only way they were better only suited a tiny fraction of people.

Fogmatic

It might be too late for Silvine, but the UK mag PC Advisor did a 'Mac, PC or Linux?' feature in the June '07 issue, which is probably as unbiased as you'll get. It's also readable on their website, at http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=9333.

I've got to get a new computer, but have just about had it with Windows; it seems to me to have become more and more of an unstable dog's dinner of additions. I've squeezed all I can out my 98SE system (as my only computer, anyway), but I positively don't want Vista.(XP would be just about tolerable).

My particular uses would also fit a Mac. I'm not into games etc, just into still images, and writing. Apart from sending people Word documents, I don't need much in the way of conformity with other people's software, even if Macs were still a law unto themselves. Add a recent windfall, and a dislike of false economies.....

I'm trying to find out where to buy a Mac. The Apple website only mentions 1 supplier in this country, in Dublin, about 5 hours each way from here. Enniskillen or Derry would be much nearer (and I like to see things before buying). But that's another thread!

byte

North West Computers in Letterkenny sell Apple computers, not sure what their prices are like.

440Hz

conzymaher wrote: »

I dont see why you would want to switch to a mac for video editing, especially family / low budget stuff...

Why not?

Also a very high percentage of video professionals use Mac, obviously a reason for their choice.

Pricetag.. ok fair point, but the majority of Mac users are not forking out for that price tag due to aesthetics, we pay for quality which we know we won't get from a PC/Windows machine.

Its personal choice, but the price is the most likely thing to hold you back. Its worth every penny though. Once you go Mac, you never go back!

hshortt

I might be reaching a bit here, but when Apple switched to using Intel chips in the Macs, there was a version of the OS you could download and install on a PC. It was a complicated process but once done you had Mac OS on a PC.

Since then, Apple has released a tool called bootcamp. From what I understand (very little) this allows you to dual boot your Mac from Mac OS to a Windows OS. Thereby, giving you the best of both worlds.

Personally, I like Macs, they are typically well built, the software is easy to use. I prefer an OS that I can tinker with which is why I stick to Windows.

Cheerio
Howard

Doctor DooM

I own a mac book pro with paralells running xp if I feel like playing a game.

Alot of people saying it's just looks, but you know what? It does everything for me, and its never, ever crashed. Not once. All my hardware works with it, I've never needed to reinstall the os, and it runs quick.

None of the above can really be said about Windows comps.

Valentia

Fogmatic wrote: »

I've squeezed all I can out my 98SE system (as my only computer, anyway), but I positively don't want Vista.(XP would be just about tolerable).

You've just described the source of your problem. This must be the most ill informed and illogical statement I have seen in a long time. Still using 98SE and complaining about ??

I seriously considered getting a mac recently but honestly, despite all the wonderful things its users have to say, couldn't justify the money. I cannot square it when people say it is good value for money. This quad core from Komplett can be got for less than €1200 (with XP). I have no idea what a corresponding mac would cost and would be afraid to ask.

I'm sure they are mighty fine machines but I can't help but feel that I would be buying into an image. I find the whole way Mr. Jobs does his business a little condescending and manipulative anyway and the resulting icon worshipping, well, strange. I couldn't give a flute what my computer looks like. That wont make Photoshop run any faster or my photographs any better.

If you have a good firewall, adaware and AV stuff installed Windows will run as smooth as you want. I have had zilch problems with mine for years.

matt-dublin

Also there's the repair costs associated with a mac if somethign goes wrong with it. Spare parts can be quite costly, whereas ps parts can be quite cheap.

You can do all the stuff mac can do on a pc with the right software.
YOu can buy an extreemly more powerful pc than mac for the same price.

and IMO a lot of designers use macs because they were taught on macs. a few of my mates doing graphic design felt like they were forced into using macs because their lecturers were teaching with them. and once they started using them they forgot how to take full advantage of windows.

And pcs can be quite stable with a little care, i've been running xp on this desktop for about 5 years now, never had to re-install, never crashed and still quick as lightning!

440Hz

matt-dublin wrote: »

And pcs can be quite stable with a little care, i've been running xp on this desktop for about 5 years now, never had to re-install, never crashed and still quick as lightning!

But but but... you have ubuntu in your sig?? :rolleyes: Linux fans don't usually make claims that Windows is reliable.

matt-dublin

yes i use ubuntu as well, primarely cos its a little fun. Windows isn't as reliable as linux. Different for diferent types of users.

More advanced users can keep their pc stable, but then you've got the people that click the "your our 1 millionth visitor" banners and then don't understand why their pc dies.

I like linux, but i find i can do things a lot easier in windows.

Dont be at yourself

Also there's the repair costs associated with a mac if somethign goes wrong with it. Spare parts can be quite costly, whereas ps parts can be quite cheap.

Aren't the main components of most macs just off the shelf? I've replaced RAM and harddiscs in my macs with readily available, cheap non-Apple parts.

You can do all the stuff mac can do on a pc with the right software.
YOu can buy an extreemly more powerful pc than mac for the same price.

Out of the box, the software supplied with OSX is top class. For the average consumer, iLife is everything they will ever need for entertainment. For productivity, you can plump for Microsoft Office, Photoshop etc, just like with Windows.

I don't think that the price disparity is as pronounced as it historically was. Perhaps if you self-build, you'll make a saving, but you'd have to add in your OS etc. on top of that. The Mac Mini represents incredible value for money, if you ask me.

And pcs can be quite stable with a little care, i've been running xp on this desktop for about 5 years now, never had to re-install, never crashed and still quick as lightning!

I agree here, to an extent. XP has grown to be more and more stable, and with due care and attention won't cause problems. I guess it gets a bad rep because the average user doesn't grasp all the intricacies. There's still no faulting OSX when it comes to stability, though.

At the end of the day, I've been using macs for little over a year now, but already I'm convinced that I'll never buy a Windows machine again. For my needs, OSX is perfect. That obviously wont be the same for everybody, so make sure you do your research before you buy!

TerrorFirmer

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

The price disparity is virtually non-existent for similarly specced Windows machines nowadays - especially as Vista is a lot more power hungry than OSX. Couple the fact that packages like iDVD and iMovie HD come as standard on every mac, and you'll have an excellent entry-level movie editing suite without spending an extra penny. And if you really, really want to, you can run Windows on it too.

I've had my mac just over a year now, and I feel it was the best purchase I ever made.

I don't think so. My Dell Vostros cost 950, the MacBook Pro with the exact same spec's, except 200mhz faster, is 1899 on the Mac store. MacBooks always were and always will be ludicrously over priced.

The worst thing is that most people that buy Macs for video editing because they heard its better, are only editing stupid amateur and home movies anyway. It's really turned into a mass delusion.

I think Macs are nice don't get me wrong, they look great and they're great - if you genuinely need them. But most people just throw money at them to be different.

As for components, no, don't you need special motherboards in order to be able to install OSX on your system? In which case, replacing components would be a right and hugely expensive pain. Although of course stuff like ram and hard drive etc is completely standard and always was.

As for 'stability' - another delusion. Users that are too clueless to protect their computer properly and then go and blame Bill games for his ****ty OS. I've been using XP for years and it's always been rock steady for me. Someone above actually mentioned a bonus of their Mac was that they can install ANY device without having to reinstall the OS. Wow, ffs, cop on. Are we comparing winXP to OSX or Win3.1?

Valentia

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

The price disparity is virtually non-existent for similarly specced Windows machines nowadays

I'm not convinced. Can you tell me if it's possible to get a quad core, 4Gig memory, 500 Gig HDD yada yada for less than €1200? Ok, less than €2000? Hmm. There ya go.

Dont be at yourself

As for components, no, don't you need special motherboards in order to be able to install OSX on your system? In which case, replacing components would be a right and hugely expensive pain.

The motherboard is pretty much the only non-off-the-shelf part, as far as I know. Hard-discs, RAM and even processors can be swapped out, and presumably optical drives too, though I'm not sure.

Regarding video editing: I don't edit video in a professional capacity, so I can't comment on FinalCut. As a hobbyist, I found both iMovie and iDVD to be incredibly robust and intuitive. The average consumer's video editing needs are well met out-of-the-box, more so than on other platforms.

But as I've said, I've not used FinalCut, so I don't know how OSX stacks up in a professional capacity.

I don't think so. My Dell Vostros cost 950, the MacBook Pro with the exact same spec's, except 200mhz faster, is 1899 on the Mac store. MacBooks always were and always will be ludicrously over priced.

I gotta say, I'm quite taken aback my that discrepancy! Exact same specs, save for the processor?

I will say one thing that annoys the hell out of me WRT Apple: their prices on Irish store are completely out of whack with US and Japanese prices. I know they're not the only company guilty of reaching the hand in for a few more quid off us wealthy Irish, but when you can literally save hundreds by buying from another country, it's quite irritating.

(But not for me currently. Japanese store prices + education discount = :):))

440Hz

HavoK wrote: »

But most people just throw money at them to be different.

The company slogan is Think Different




Oh and also... I disagree that people "throw money" at them to be different. I credit the average Mac user with more sense than that.

AlmightyCushion

HavoK wrote: »

I don't think so. My Dell Vostros cost 950, the MacBook Pro with the exact same spec's, except 200mhz faster, is 1899 on the Mac store. MacBooks always were and always will be ludicrously over priced.

Do you have a link for that Havok, I would love to check that out.

themole

Check out here for some informed discussion

matt-dublin

gotta love maddox, his stuff is nearly as funny as tucker max

TerrorFirmer

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Do you have a link for that Havok, I would love to check that out.

I'm just after noticing its 1440x900 screen. So lets say it would have cost me 50 extra with dell. That makes it 1,000. But for 950, I got 1 Year accidental warranty included. So that that out, and you're back down to about 920 including the 1440x900 screen.

My Specs: 2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2Gb Ram, 120Gb Hard Drive, 256mb DDR2 8600GT.

Macbook Pro: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2Gb Ram, 120Gb Hard Drive, 128mb DDR3 8600GT (but its gddr3 to its credit, but only 128mb, which makes it the same if not worse for games)

And thats an 899 difference - almost enough to buy another Vostros completely.

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/irl.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=7B723646&node=home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro

The 17" MacBook Pro is 2699. Upgrade a Vostros 1700 to the hilt and you've got an actual better in many aspects (bigger hard drive etc) apart from slower DDR2 memory on the 8600GT - for about a grand less.

Fogmatic

Thanks Byte. I have the same trouble with Mac searches as Silvine, and the only retailer the Apple site mentioned in this country was PC World in Dublin. Letterkenny's slightly nearer for me than Enniskillen, and being in this country would probably be a plus.

As long as it doesn't mean an extra price hike, that is (on top of the US to UK ones that never seem to be properly explained!)

No complaints intended, Valentia, but yes I'm still using 98SE - I couldn't afford to update till now.
I got this system in 2000, and it's served me well, but software support for it has more or less stopped, including antivirus, and broadband (if I can somehow get it that is). And apps need more power etc. now. Hence the urgency of a new computer (happily coinciding with a windfall).
I have to admit that I'm also resistant to obsolescence if the older thing does all I want. I also like neatly-written software, and see Vista as bloatware, but maybe I'm biased (I got my first computer in the mid 1980s, when every byte of space counted).
Back then, Microsoft was the way to go for meshing in with businesses & other users. The early Windows out then (inspired by Macs) was more trouble than it was worth - I found it quicker to just type a Dos command. Apple hardware & software were designed from the start for a graphic interface - Windows was an extra layer on top of Dos, up to 98SE at least. (I don't know if it's been redesigned from scratch yet - only that it's not possible to get at Dos from later Win versions).

It's horses for courses of course (no pun intended). I enjoyed doing a bit of programming in the old days, but now that it's not necessary (and I don't have my whole life in front of me), I'm just interested in the end, not the means. To me, that means going for a Mac. I like things to look good, but that's not the reason (I'm quite happy to paint things if they're the wrong colour!)

sdanseo

themole wrote: »

Check out here for some informed discussion

Dead link for me...

There was a video doing the rounds by some comedian about all the reasons not to use a MAC...anyone remember it?

AlmightyCushion

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Dead link for me...

There was a video doing the rounds by some comedian about all the reasons not to use a MAC...anyone remember it?

He messed up pasting the link in.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

Dorsanty

I use Windows because I play games and I've used it for years so it's very familiar for me. XP is pretty much rock solid now and SP3 is meant to add to that. Vista is nice and a half decent UI improvement. Also you'll never be short of a driver for your new device.

I use OS X on a MBP because I like the integration of it. 1 address book, 1 photo library, 1 music library. No messing about, it just works. No need to fire up regedit or msconfig and edit your startup processes. Don't defrag either, it takes care of that when installing new apps that need large blocks of space. Easy street....


As for cost differences when I first got my MacBook Pro the price diff was within 100-200 € of the Dell XPS laptop which had equivalent hardware. I was able to reason that the equiv to actually paying the cost of the OS for the Machine. And when you buy a Mac you are really buying it for the OS. The hardware style is nice but would only be a secondary reason. But that reasonable price difference was a year ago. I recently considered getting a MacBook for someone and was able to see that I could save €500 by getting it in the US. I'm really getting annoyed with Apple's abuse of the currency conversion rate. I know where my next iPod is coming from, that's for sure.

Just checked the apple store. In Ireland they want $1,486.27 for the machine, but in the US they want $1099. Hmmm, shipping costs, VAT. Sums don't work I'm afraid

Creamy Goodness

hshortt wrote: »

I might be reaching a bit here, but when Apple switched to using Intel chips in the Macs, there was a version of the OS you could download and install on a PC. It was a complicated process but once done you had Mac OS on a PC.

yes allbeit highly illegal.

this is one thing that sold me on macs (i still use windows for games).

you have a fresh install of both windows XP and mac OS X.

you have a pdf you want viewing.

windows -> go to www.adobe.com -> download acrobat reader -> install it -> probably restart your pc -> update it -> then finally you view your pdf.

mac -> double click it -> view your pdf.

Naikon

I am a PC man myself.
I don't see the the big deal here.
Macs are just the same X86 hardware put into a flash case which generally look much nicer than a standard PC.

Macs aren't as modular though which is the one reason I still don't have one.
I only really use Windows for games now, as my FreeBSD 6.2 box with KDE generally exceeds what I do with the windows machine.
Beryl looks awesome too, and is not as memory intensive as Vista's "Aero" interface.
The shell is also more usefull than the "command prompt" in XP/vista.
Long live Unix-like operating systems:D

Tar.Aldarion

Cremo wrote: »

yes allbeit highly illegal.

this is one thing that sold me on macs (i still use windows for games).

you have a fresh install of both windows XP and mac OS X.

you have a pdf you want viewing.

windows -> go to www.adobe.com -> download acrobat reader -> install it -> probably restart your pc -> update it -> then finally you view your pdf.

mac -> double click it -> view your pdf.

Pff, just use openoffice on a pc.

Capt'n Midnight

Cremo wrote: »

you have a pdf you want viewing.

windows -> go to www.adobe.com -> download acrobat reader -> install it -> probably restart your pc -> update it -> then finally you view your pdf.

You missed the accept the license agreement step. (for each user on the PC)

and the montly 10MB download to keep the acrobat patched.

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php - still doesn't do everything acrobat reader does, but it's like 4% of the size and doesn't have as many security holes because of unneeded functionality.

mcR

matt-dublin wrote: »

And pcs can be quite stable with a little care, i've been running xp on this desktop for about 5 years now, never had to re-install, never crashed and still quick as lightning!

Thank u, I am sick of people saying macs are better because they dont crash. If you know what your doing and take care of your windows machine nothing goes wrong. I use a mac in college and windows at home and both freeze equally, both freeze from time to time so it's nothing serious

Windows is the way to go (not vista, go xp but vista has alot more virus control). I have a dell inspiron with the same specs as a mac book pro and its 1300 windows - 2399 mac pro, the only difference is maybe the graphics card is slightly better. Price wise which is what most people care about, windows is the way to go and it still gives equal quaility depending on how you look at it

If apple were to allow osx on a windows machine this agruement would be over. I cant see it ever happening cos apple would loose millions and it would be very hard to actually get it to run on a windows machine. Sneeky apple with their boot camp, have it both ways and see what happens

So windows all the way, BETTER PRICE BETTER CHOICE!

Dorsanty

Is the hardware 100% equal when people say their Dell / HP is cheaper then the Apple?

When comparing to Macbook Pro, please compare to machine with built in camera, backlit keyboard, shock sensor so that the hard disk can secure heads and not crash onto disk in event of fall, ambient light sensor for automatic screen brightness control and keyboard light control. 802.11n wireless networking. Includes media center remote (Front Row).

I do think there is a price difference and that surely not all of it can be accounted for. But I also find that there's a few things in a mac that aren't found in standard laptop. It's not all CPU, RAM, Graphics after all.

Creamy Goodness

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Pff, just use openoffice on a pc.

yes, but you'd still have to download it and install it, or does vista/xp come with open office nowadays?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You missed the accept the license agreement step. (for each user on the PC)

and the montly 10MB download to keep the acrobat patched.

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php - still doesn't do everything acrobat reader does, but it's like 4% of the size and doesn't have as many security holes because of unneeded functionality.

i wasn't getting at saying acrobat was bulky or anything, the initial point i was making was that OS X has pretty much everything you need from the get go.

Valentia

Dorsanty wrote: »

It's not all CPU, RAM, Graphics after all.

Well we'd have to disagree on that I'm afraid. Jazus a backlit keyboard. Hmm indeed. I bet Photoshop would fly with one of dem yokes.

Capt'n Midnight

Cremo wrote: »

yes, but you'd still have to download it and install it, or does vista/xp come with open office nowadays?

no but ubuntu / kubuntu / knoppix do

Cremo wrote: »

i wasn't getting at saying acrobat was bulky or anything, the initial point i was making was that OS X has pretty much everything you need from the get go.

wellif you are on dial up acrobat is overkill :mad:

Dorsanty

Valentia wrote: »

Well we'd have to disagree on that I'm afraid. Jazus a backlit keyboard. Hmm indeed. I bet Photoshop would fly with one of dem yokes.

Hey, well then people should say that their cheaper dell/hp machine has equal performance to said Apple machine. But the hardware spec is not equal, I know these other things are small and subtle but cost adds up when a manufacturer puts them in.

So on the theory your putting forward there I could setup a kick ass bare bones PC and compare it to someone's expensive Alienware machine or XPS system and then slag them off for spending all that money.

Valentia

Dorsanty wrote: »

So on the theory your putting forward there I could setup a kick ass bare bones PC and compare it to someone's expensive Alienware machine or XPS system and then slag them off for spending all that money.

Obviously that is NOT what I am saying. If you read my previous posts you will see that. To quote myself from an earlier post: "This quad core from Komplett can be got for less than €1200 (with XP). I have no idea what a corresponding mac would cost and would be afraid to ask." I reckon you wouldn't get much change from 3 grand.

Most of the macs advertised specifications are set in such a way that you nearly need to upgrade immediately (memory and HDD) so the advertised price, high as it is, is still only a tease!

My whole point is that while I accept that Macs are great machines and that I would love to have one I am not prepared to sign up to Mr. Jobs' cunning masterplan and make my own decisions.

440Hz

Valentia wrote: »

My whole point is that while I accept that Macs are great machines and that I would love to have one I am not prepared to sign up to Mr. Jobs' cunning masterplan and make my own decisions.

hehe! I'd take the church of Jobs any day over the Gates-machine!

I'm proud that I have never bought a PC, and any PC I have had to work on has been running Linux.

Valentia

440Hz wrote: »

hehe! I'd take the church of Jobs any day over the Gates-machine!

I'm proud that I have never bought a PC, and any PC I have had to work on has been running Linux.

Well Katie, all that that proves to me is that the bauld Steve is better at marketing himself than poor ol' Bill. In fact as time goes by Bill seems to be the one giving more back. Strange how perceptions deceive, isn't it?

440Hz

I don't doubt Mr Gates' charitable contributions, I just wonder whether he would have been so generous if he wasn't trying to keep up with his counterpart.

As for Steve's marketing skills... I think he just found the right people to hire the right people tbh. At the end of the day, both Bill and Steve have a hell of a lot of people to thank for where they are today, Steve W in particular. It's not a head-to-head Jobs-Gates issue really, my only point was that looking at the whole picture I'd take Jobs over Gates anyday.

astrofool

440Hz wrote: »

I'm proud that I have never bought a PC, and any PC I have had to work on has been running Linux.

Does it not grind you that every machine you use now is a PC, the only difference is you can run OSX on it. From a hardware point of view, a Mac is long dead.

440Hz

That the point though, Mac is more than just a machine type, its a way of life :P

hehe, seriously though, its about the whole package and what it enables you to do. Its personal choice and depends largely on the intended need of the person, but for me, Mac all the way, everytime.