Membership packs?

KingdomYid

Anyone received their members pack yet,as i have not.Got my reference number emailed alrite but still waiting on pack.Must say im not gone on new ticketing system as you cant pick your seat can see problems for big games such as goons etc.

therecklessone

KingdomYid wrote:

Must say im not gone on new ticketing system as you cant pick your seat can see problems for big games such as goons etc.

Think it might make things easier TBH, as it might reduce the load on the server during really busy times. For the bigger games I used to just select a block and let the old Seatbooker system allocate me a ticket, much quicker.

therecklessone

p.s. postal strikes on/off in UK at the moment, so expect some delay for your pack.

Robxxx7

Have to say i'm not sold on the new ticketing system ... i used to always look for an aisle seat so that i had that little extra roon to cram my 6ft 3" frame into ....now i'm going to have to forego a couple of matches to pay for a chiropractor ....

Also, i went online and got 5 tickets for the Torino game and as i was paying the server crashed ... so i logged back in again anc checked to see whether the tickets were purchased or not ... they weren't, so i checked my email to see if there was any confirmation ..there wasn't, so i logged back in again and purchased 5 tickets again, all went through no problem and got the confirmation email....

anyway, a couple of days later i went on to the ticketing system again just to have a nose around and found that i had purchased 10 tickets ... 5 from when the server crashed and another 5 from when i went back in again ...

Called the ticket office and after getting cut off twice, got through to someone who didn't give a toss and basically said tuff sh1t...

so for me the new ticketing system is a shambles

mushykeogh

hello
got mine on friday so im sure yours will be along any day now.

therecklessone

Robxxx7 wrote:

Have to say i'm not sold on the new ticketing system ... i used to always look for an aisle seat so that i had that little extra roon to cram my 6ft 3" frame into ....now i'm going to have to forego a couple of matches to pay for a chiropractor ....

Also, i went online and got 5 tickets for the Torino game and as i was paying the server crashed ... so i logged back in again anc checked to see whether the tickets were purchased or not ... they weren't, so i checked my email to see if there was any confirmation ..there wasn't, so i logged back in again and purchased 5 tickets again, all went through no problem and got the confirmation email....

anyway, a couple of days later i went on to the ticketing system again just to have a nose around and found that i had purchased 10 tickets ... 5 from when the server crashed and another 5 from when i went back in again ...

Called the ticket office and after getting cut off twice, got through to someone who didn't give a toss and basically said tuff sh1t...

so for me the new ticketing system is a shambles

Rob, PM me your e-mail address and I'll pass it on to a mate who is on the supporters trust. He'll sort out your problem.

Dublin Spur

Robxxx7 wrote:

Have to say i'm not sold on the new ticketing system ... i used to always look for an aisle seat so that i had that little extra roon to cram my 6ft 3" frame into ....now i'm going to have to forego a couple of matches to pay for a chiropractor ....

Also, i went online and got 5 tickets for the Torino game and as i was paying the server crashed ... so i logged back in again anc checked to see whether the tickets were purchased or not ... they weren't, so i checked my email to see if there was any confirmation ..there wasn't, so i logged back in again and purchased 5 tickets again, all went through no problem and got the confirmation email....

anyway, a couple of days later i went on to the ticketing system again just to have a nose around and found that i had purchased 10 tickets ... 5 from when the server crashed and another 5 from when i went back in again ...

Called the ticket office and after getting cut off twice, got through to someone who didn't give a toss and basically said tuff sh1t...

so for me the new ticketing system is a shambles

Nightmare

KingdomYid

Have heard nothing but negative reports from people who tried to buy everton tickets this morning,has anyone on here experienced problems?Im dreading the day the arsenal tickets come out i can see a stressful morning ahead.Come on spurs sort this out!!!

therecklessone

I've passed Rob's problem on to a contact of mine who will hopefully get a result for him.

In the meantime, if anyone else becomes aware of problems with ticketing at Spurs, I urge you to contact TO management and let them know you're not happy.

David Lynam is assistant manager, you can reach him at david.lynamATtottenhamhotspur.com (replace AT with @).

The more complaints they get the more pressure they'll be under to improve things.

Robxxx7

Cheers Ronan,

I got a mail back last night from Ian Murphy (Head of ticketing and membership) he explained the reasons behind the change in the online booking system and will also look into my problem. I will update here once i get further feedback.

I have added below some info from Ian as to why they changed


'With regards to your comments about no longer being able to select
specific seats when purchasing tickets online, being able to do so was
an obvious benefit of Seatbooker. Unfortunately as systems have
progressed over the years the facility to chose a specific seat has
disappeared and been replaced by the system choosing the best seat
available within the area you have chosen. There are very few systems in
the marketplace these days that allow specific seats to be selected
online. Many other systems now only give you the option to purchase by
price and stand. Our current system give you the option to choose a
specific block - I would argue that our system gives a wider choice in
that respect.

On our old system, where people were allowed to go in and select
specific seats we were almost always left with a large number of single
seats to sell before a match was completely sold out. Quite
understandably, supporters would not necessarily think to make sure that
they did not leave odd seats on their own when they were making their
booking. However, it did leave us with issues where people would not
bring children because they would obviously not want them to sit alone.
All in all it was proving to be a poor experience for supporters who
only managed to purchase a ticket towards the end of a sale.

Additionally, it is clear that the ability to select specific seats was
lengthening the purchase time on the Web while supporters 'shopped'
around for the seats they preferred. This situation undoubtedly
contributed to some of the system issues that were experienced in the
past in terms of speed and robustness.

The new Ticketmaster system that we now have in place is the same as
that used at many of other Premier League clubs and our process in
regard to this specific point is now consistent with them. Just to
clarify, some supporters who have contacted us have suggested that seats
are allocated randomly to them. This is not the case. The seats that are
allocated to people booking via the Web are those that are deemed 'best
available' at the time they are making their booking. Best Available is
defined by the Ticket Office as being back row first and then moving
forward in the lower tiers, and front row then moving backwards in the
upper tiers. The best seat in a row is always the seat nearest the
centre of the pitch.

Obviously, in the event that a supporter does have a need or a desire to
have a particular seat they are able to call to book, and in the event
that the seat(s) that they want are available they will be able to book
them, or as near to it without leaving single seats unsold.'

Robxxx7

as an update i have now been refunded the cost of 5 tickets

Thanks for your help Ronan and of course the Tottenham Trust

therecklessone

No problem Rob.

galinka

Not travelling - don't see any way of selling ticket online yet - not that i got my pack mind you either!

ruiseal

mushykeogh wrote:

hello
got mine on friday so im sure yours will be along any day now.

What does this year's membership pack contain?

mushykeogh

ruiseal wrote:

What does this year's membership pack contain?

eh not much really! i got the bronze membership and you get your membership card, a little silver cockrel badge pin thingy, a dvd review of the season, which is pretty good, all the goals from europe, carling cup and premiership, well, most of then anyway,and a few interviews and a cd rom with wallpaper and screen savers on it which i havent looked at yet, and of course you get to book tickets before anyone else!!

Simple Pieman

These packs are all well and good, but I would rather have an efficient ticketing service and a few quid off the price. If I want souvenirs I can choose to buy them. The Ticket Office create problems for themselves by having to include all this stuff. It must get in the way of what they are supposed to be doing (selling & processing tickets).

At the end of last season my loyalty points were reduced by 6 (when comparing the 2 systems) Others have reported likewise but the club have failed to explain what has happened with this.

Rant over.

galinka

Less gimmicks and more action. No sign of my new loyalty points being added or any way to flog tickets!:mad:

Simple Pieman

Sunderland points (5) now added but still no sign of the renewal points or indeed the 6 that were removed when they changed systems. Will be collecting Season Ticket package from THFC today. Have got my rucksack with me to carry it home.

Saw the Tottenham Hospur XI at Staines Town on Saturday. Jake Livermore in midfield looks a fine player.

therecklessone

Simple Pieman wrote:

Sunderland points (5) now added but still no sign of the renewal points

Same here, though I did get my letter from Gemma Smith today to confirm I'm on the Platinum package...sent almost four weeks ago...

:rolleyes:

Wendell Gee

I would love if spare tickets were offered here. I'm sure quite a few Tottenham fans who can't afford the cost or time to be season ticket holders would love to go along occasionally. how about if we set up a ticket exchange thread? I know it would encourage me to go to some games.

Wendell Gee

I would love if spare tickets were offered here. I'm sure quite a few Tottenham fans who can't afford the cost or time to be season ticket holders would love to go along occasionally. how about if we set up a ticket exchange thread? I know it would encourage me to go to some games.

therecklessone

Wendell, a number of times last season we arranged ticket swaps, one of the reasons the forum was requested was to help facilitate that.

[edit]don't see much demand for a specific thread for ticket swaps, but feel free to post up looking for spares and I'm sure there'll be someone who can help

That applies to anyone looking to shift on spares as well[/edit]

Wendell Gee

That's excellent. Thanks as ever. With the way things are shaping up it could be a great season. This reminds me of 82, 85, and 87, each year we started with a strong and deep squad, and we had good seasons. *2 and 87 are looked back on as chances missed, I supose, but fixure congestion was horrendous back then, and pitches were a joke. Ardiles, Hoddle and co on ploughed fields against Reid, Mcmahon and co. If petrov is on his way (and it's reported he's in London this morning) the picture looks pretty complete. Anyway, it's great to know the forum is there for us to help us get there and to help us keep in touch.

galinka

Ronan/Shane have you got your season ticket yet?
No sign of mine yet!

therecklessone

Says dispatched on One Hotspur Andrew, has done for a week. That apparently means its dispatched from the TO to the distribution warehouse to be added to your welcome pack and sent on. Postal strikes in UK (one tomorrow) might be delaying.

I love the way they say you can't collect your book on match days, think they'll have to make exceptions for non-N17 fans.

I'll be kicking in the door on the 14th anyway...:D

Dublin Spur

Still Waiting - gone beyond a joke at this stage.

yiddo

galinka wrote:

Ronan/Shane have you got your season ticket yet?
No sign of mine yet!

Still no sign of our 2. The ***** took the money on 19th May though :mad:

therecklessone

Had a series of e-mails to/from between David Lynam and Paul Barber last night Pat.

A number of interesting and worrying points raised. Barber as good as told me I should leave the TO alone to get on with their jobs, its the constant contact from fans that's making their jobs harder. He can fcuk right off, I told him I'm a customer as well as a supporter and I'm entitled to some level of service.

He seems to think they're snowed under with e-mails, and its understandable they don't have time to resolve all of the problems. I pointed out that our shirt sponsors managed to reply to a mail of mine in less than 3 hours yesterday, sorting out a problem with my account and apologising in the process.

Fcuk it, here's the entire series of mails for your enjoyment:

me, original mail wrote:

Hi Gemma,

A week since I mailed you and no reply. I gather from Spurs message boards that you're on your holidays, hope you're having fun. Meanwhile, myself and others are still waiting for delivery of our season tickets, wondering where our missing loyalty points are, and in my case wondering if you've actioned the details I passed to you by e-mail last Wednesday.

I've had a fun Summer, starting with queing in the rain outside the ticket office the day after our last game of the season to renew my ticket in person (because of your software changeover, you could not apply the £60 discount I was due from our season ticket exchange scheme to my renewal if I renewed online). That was followed by numerous phone calls wondering why my renewal had not been processed (while everyone else's appeared to have been), before I finally got to talk to Veronica Canavan about the whole thing. Myself and Veronica have had a number of contacts in the past (mainly due to problems I have encountered), and she seemed to know what needed doing. Except instead of processing my renewal as a Platinum Member, she put through my renewal as a Silver Member, and failed to subtract the £60 I was due from last season.

No problem, she told me when I called again. We'll take that off your Platinum fee if you are successful. Except you didn't, you charged me the full £660 then refunded the £60 I was due to my credit card. Just to clarify Gemma, I asked repeatedly that you DO NOT REFUND ANY MONIES TO MY CARD! All refunds to my card involve currency conversion charges, as a resident of the Republic all of my banking is conducted in €. You will be glad to know that I am in the process of applying for a non-resident £stg bank account in Northern Ireland so that in the inevitable event of you making another mistake, at least a refund to my card will not cost me money.

Then there was the issue of you obtaining pre-approval for the debits to my credit card for both my home and away STs, but not requesting the money itself. My bank chose to cancel the transaction after a week of inaction, so yet again I was on the phone to you, to clear up a potential problem of your making.

Of course, like thousands of others I've found my LP total fluctuating rapidly over the last few weeks. No matter, I'm told the TO is on the case and its a software issue. You're assessing everything, and will ensure the correct totals are displayed on One Hotspur by 1st August. Except I am short 15 points, my 5 point early-renewal bonus (and I have the receipt to prove it) plus 10 points for my ST (I was only given 20 points as a Silver ST holder, despite me being assured in writing that I am a Platinum member)

And yet of all of that would not matter a jot, if it were not for the fact that with only 7 working days remaining before the 1st game of the season, I do not know if I will have a season ticket, a membership card, or a ticket for our game at Sunderland. I've been allocated one for Sunderland, I have the LPs to prove it! I'm just not sure where you're going to send it, as you've not replied to my last e-mail.

If I do get my season ticket, I imagine it will be a silver one with a silver membership card. I am led to believe I am supposed to receive a platinum card and book. Just to let you know Gemma, the only time I can get to the ticket office is on match days (as I live a good 300 miles from Tottenham) so contrary to the note on the club site re. fans not collecting season books on matchdays, I will most definitely be calling in to you before our home game against Everton.

p.s. just a quick note to show how our shirt sponsors manage e-mail queries:

E-mailed Mansion this evening about me not being able to withdraw funds from my account

*18:38* E-mail sent
*18:39* Automated reply promising answer with 24 hours
*19:18* Reply from "Lisa" advising query passed on to their finance department
*20:41* Confirmation from "Craig" that my account has been updated and I can access my funds, with an apology.

Barber first to reply:

Dear Mr Farrel

Thank you for your e-mail.

The Club has processed close to 70,000 new One Hotspur memberships this summer. The vast majority of season ticket books are already in the hands of fans.

We started the process of season ticket mailing some weeks back and have staggered the distribution of season ticket books to ensure that we could circumvent various postal strikes and prevent delays for our supporters. The process started later than usual for two reasons:

- we have married bookw and packs for the first time, saving on postage and keeping costs down for the benefit of the Club and fans

- we have learned over many seasons that early distribution of books leads to a huge number of misplaced books, administrative difficulties as a result, and increased costs for fans and the Club

We have updated the website regularly to keep supporters informed and, a full 13 days before the first time the books will actually be used at a home match, we are entirely confident that, further postal strikes allowing, all fans will have their books on time and as planned.

By contrast, the world's largest football club, Manchester United - with more than double the number of season ticket holders and triple the number of members - started their distribution process just one week ago.

This past few weeks, in addition to processing 70,000 One Hotspur applications, supporting many thousands of fans through the Club's biggest ever ticketing and membership transformation via an entirely new system, the Ticket Office has also managed 5 on sale dates, including the biggest match of the season for which, despite technical issues outside of the Club's control, we still sold 100 tickets per minute.

We are well aware that the system has glitches such as the Loyalty point issue. We would have been delighted but slightly surprised if the system didn't have some teething problems. We are also aware that such glitches are frustrating for fans. They are for us too as small glitches can create huge volumes of additional phone calls and e-mails which slow down our response rates to other issues.

I am delighted to hear MANSION's e-mail response rate is so fast. As good as MANSION's operation is, I would however suspect that their customer service team are not receiving e-mails at the rate of 5 per minute as some of our staff receive during peak times whilst also manning phones, ticketing windows and dealing with other matters relating to Ticket Office administration.

Unfortunately, that's what comes with the territory for our staff at the start of any season - and particularly when demand for tickets is already out-stripping last season - but I should hope that our Platinum One Hotspur members would recognise this, cut the guys a little slack, and allow them to focus on ensuring the system glitches are removed as quickly as possible for everyone's benefit.

Thank you for your patience. I am sure that Ian or Dave, both of whom have already worked through the night on at least one occasion this week to ensure the glitches did not affect the Arsenal on sale for our supporters' benefit, will be delighted to update you on the whereabouts of your season ticket as soon as they are able in the morning.

Regards, Paul

Two points sprung to mind...hire more fcuking staff you tight arse, and if you managed to provide a half decent service in the first place your e-mail inbox would empty out quick enough.

therecklessone

Now bear in mind that is was after midnight that Barber replied, so angry and all as I am I appreciate he's at least responding to complaints...

I reply:

Dear Paul,

I appreciate the late reply, as always you've shown yourself to be dilligent and responsive to communication as is your reputation around the Spurs online community.

I must take issue with one comment you have made, that I should cut the ticket office some slack and leave them to get on with their jobs. There is a clear track record of errors in the processing of my season ticket renewal and despatch. Why should I sit back and wait for more? Trust is surely earned? I have read far too many accounts of mishaps and blunders from other fans in their dealings with the club for me to accept that point.

I'll make it clear to you (and to Gemma, Ian and David) what I need done to leave me a satisfied customer (and I am a customer at the end of the day):

1. Correct my loyalty point totals
2. Confirm despatch of my season ticket (the correct one) in time for our first home game of the season.
3. Confirm that my ticket for Sunderaland, and all subsequent games is sent to the address I e-mailed to Gemma a week ago. For clarification, that is

[snip]

The loyalty points issue I can wait on, I'm sure you'll agree the other two are far nore pressing.

Thank you,

Ronan.

Paul replies:

Dear Ronan

Thank you for the note.

Nobody is suggesting that you are not a customer or that you do not have a right to know where your ticket is. However, with 13 days to go before it needs to be used, the Ticket Office do not need to be criticised quite so heavily for an issue that isn't even an issue at this point in time.

Likewise, there are still 10 days before we play Sunderland. We only received the tickets from Sunderland on Friday! In between times, we have had an Arsenal on-sale day. Again, let's not create an issue about something that's not an issue yet.

Finally, we have already acknowledged through the web that we have an issue with loyalty point totals as seen by fans. We do not have the same issue on the screens we are looking at. As frustrating as this is for you and for us, it is an issue we have been aware of for a while, we are working on it, and we will fix as quickly as our suppliers are able to do so.

The guys in the Ticket Office are professionals. They are working round the clock, Ronan, and they will continue to do so until we are satisfied that all of our fans have got what they need to start the season. In the meantime, patience is key. Thanks for your understanding and support.

Regards, Paul

I'm a polite guy, so the obvious answer of "you are an incompetent shower of unprofessional ****" isn't sent...:)

Instead I send:

Dear Paul,

I decided toleave my reply until a reasonable hour, neither of us needed to spend the night answering e-mails.

You may be missing some of the significance of my concerns, living in Ireland I've come to expect long delays in receiving correspondence from THFC. For reference, my letter from Gemma confirming my status as a Platinum member took four weeks to arrive. My ST renewal forms arrived _after_ the renewal deadline. Recent IR problems with Royal Mail can't be helping, but that is the usual time frame for delivery to my Dublin address. I believe this is due to Spurs not sending post by airmail, and either Royal Mail or An Post delaying the delivery as a result.

That explains my concern re. my ST, and also re. Sunderland. Had Gemma confirmed my request that my Sunderland ticket would be sent to a friend's address in Edmonton, I'd probably not have bothered you, David, Ian or Gemma herself with my e-mail last night.

Which brings me to final point. You mention the high workload associated with answering queries at the ticket office. Last night's exchange between myself you and you saw 14 e-mails sent (or CC'ed) to tottenhamhotspur.com addresses. This mail is the 15th, and I have had a mail (and replied to) from David Lynam which added another 4 on to the total. 19 e-mails, that could have been saved had Gemma or whoever was appointed to cover her role while she was on holidays (and I don't begrudge her the time off!) replied once.

I've suggested this to David in correspondence last season, if the club had a service guarantee that all e-mails would be answered with 24-48 hours (instead of the 28 days he told me) and delivered on that promise, your overall workload would reduce. Everyone I know who contacts the ticket office CCs you to help ensure their complaint/query is answered. Those same people try phoning to get answers, and also call into the office in person. There's a whole lot of duplication of workload involved with the whole process.

I hope that clears a few things up Paul.

Thank you for your replies,

Ronan.

therecklessone

Meanwhile, David Lynam who is also on my CC list replies:

In short here are the answers to your queries:

- We received a message late last night (Wednesday) confirming that all loyalty points are now up to date. If yours are not correct, let me know and I can investigate further. As far as we are aware all points from previous seasons have been carried over and all points for renewals for the forthcoming season have been applied. I would also point out that a holding message has appeared on the login page of the eticketing website (where supporters need to go to check their points totals) stating that loyalty points are in the process of being updated and that no away ticket ballots will be run until we were assured they were correct.

- Your Season Ticket will be sent to you so you have it in time for the first match of the season.

- Your Sunderland ticket will be despatched to the address given below and I will ensure that Gemma has these correct details on her database so that all future tickets are sent there.

Kind Regards

David

I sent this to him a while ago:

Dear David,

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate you taking the time to reply in the early hours of the morning.

- The issue with loyalty point is as I outlined in my correspondence with Paul. For clarity:

1. My season ticket renewal appears to have been processed in two parts, the renewal of my home ticket first, then a couple of days later the away ticket. As a result, in the One Hotspur system I appear to have a Silver Membership (that is what shows in my booking history), and I have been allocated 20 LPs for that renewal. As a Platinum member, I should have 30. In addition, I have not received the bonus 5 points promised on the club website for early renewal (I renewed in person on 14 May, 2 days before that deadline, and have a receipt to prove that)

- Given that my ST renewal forms arrived after the renewal deadline, and my letter from Gemma confirming my status as a Platinum member took 4 weeks to reach me, I won't hold my breath on the ST arriving in time. I have a history of correspondence from the club arriving late, so much so that for the entirity of last season I insisted on collecting tickets for away games in person from the ticket office. Whose fault that is I don't know, I suspect that without airmail postage being paid (to IRELAND) either the Royal Mail or An Post are delaying delivery to me. That is also the reason I have provided you with a London address for future despatch of tickets.

- Thank you for the assurance that my Sunderland ticket will be sent to the London address provided, had Gemma or an appointed deputy confirmed that with me last week, I'd probably not have bothered yourself or Paul with my email last night.

As you can see, lots of fun.

Sometimes you can be really lucky with our ticket office...Veronica Canavan used to be a good point of contact, but she's only working part-time now. There's a girl who works the public office on match days (quite pretty, has a penchant for hoopy earrings) who is an absolute pleasure to deal with, gets straight to the point and has no problem admitting the TO have fcuked up. There's also some guy called Tim who's got a good rep online of late.

As for ST? No sign of mine, or Shane's, or Andrew's...:rolleyes:

KingdomYid

Yipee pack arrived today,pity ive already bought the dvd that came with it!!!!

Dublin Spur

You're definately keeping them on their toes mate.
Glad you not one of my customers !!

Seems to be all talk no action. They do have a fair point that the 1st game isn't for 2 weeks and that none of us really need our tickets yet.

The only real issue is applications for Sunderland can't be made without the away voucher, unless you apply on line, but that might not suit everyone.

Overall, just very dissapointing that it takes so long to issue something that was paid for months ago.

galinka

You're a patient man.

As someone who has spent most of his life managing Admin - it sounds like the TO is in deep sh...

In fairness when i spotted my loyalty points were reset to 0 i emailed and got a quick response that it was universal and would be updated on 1/8/07

Fair play to the office - i got my 20 points and my 5 bonus ones when i checked in today and all the old ones. So that's in hand.

Now for my season ticket next!! And i will be in WHL on 18/8 hopefully.

Simple Pieman

Loyalty points are now appearing again on the system which indicates some form of movement.

galinka

Ronan, the call issued a long statement today on the new ticket system, loyalty points and posting tickets.

The last of them will be posted tomorrow morning.

Sounds a lot like your email exchange!!

Simple Pieman

Went to the Ticket Office on the way home yesterday to collect Sunderland tickets. Although AMST holders (Platinum!) since 1994 we have never had total confidence and chose from 1999 to collect in person. I appreciate this is not possible for most. In our case we saw that a few AMST holders missed the first match at Upton Park that season. TO blamed the Post Office but there was more to it than that.

Sunderland tickets collected no problem but for two of us I was handed home season tickets (mine North Upper and another East Lower) - Result? Not at all as I also collected these tickets a week or so before!!!

I have agreed to return the previous ones but will wait until after the Everton match before doing so.

Ronan - I think you have been very patient and courteous in your email exchanges. I suspect the club will be taking on board what you say. It is the inability to react and respond that I believe has been the issue for years. Until THFC (not just the ticket office) recognise they are not above criticism, then nothing will change.

It was refreshing to visit Leyton Orient on Wednesday. 30 years on from my first visit. They strike me as a club where they really value their supporters. Of course they have to - at Spurs there are many waiting to take our place if we give up, at Orient this is not the case.

The Supporters Club Bar welcomed us too and had Six Real ales on handpump! (sorry I'm getting carried away now). Check out the picture.

http://pieandmushypeas.blogspot.com/1977/10/leyton-orient.html

galinka

Even found the St Pats entry!

Good photos too.:D