Pump cutting out

oceanclub

We live in an apartment with a small pump (a Stuart M330N) for the water located in the hot press closet. Lately, the pump cuts out for no apparent reason at least once a day; sometimes it happens while the water is running (during a shower, for example) and other times when the water is not being used.

Sometimes the pump appears to restart on it own; most times, I have to restart the pump myself; the instructions say to switch it off for 10 seconds, and turn it back on again. I've found I sometimes have to do this 10 times or more, all while having water running through the system (say into the bath).

I contacted Modern Plant, who are the service people in Dublin for this pump. The service guy I talked to said that he couldn't believe it was a problem with the pump, as it either would be always on or always off. This doesn't seem that likely, since (a) lots of machines have intermittent problems and (b) the pump itself comes with a sticker telling you how to reset it in the event of a temporary problem. The guy I spoke to thinks it's a fault with our electricity. Since if all the electrics went off as often as the pump does, this would be noticable (clocks reseting, etc) it's obviously not that. And I don't see how it could be isolated to a single plug.

Any advice on what to do? I'm willing to pay the €118 for the service call but from their attitude I honestly feel they'll just cursorily check it. The worse is that since the problem is intermittent, in all likelihood the pump will be working when they call out.

Should I get the electrics tested out? Since I'm a complete novice about this stuff, does anyone know of a DIY book out there that covers this stuff?

Thanks,

P.

cc

the M330N has 'dry run protection', which means if it has to cut out , for what ever reason you have to reset if first so it won't keep pumping if there is a problem. I would say either there is a bit of a blockage some where on the hot or cold leading into the pump or a faulty printed circuit board under the cover.

If its a blockage it might just be reducing the pressure needed to activate the pump during use. I'd say the faulty pcb is more likley though. A service call should do it.

oceanclub

Thanks, that was helpful... I haven't noticed the water pressure go down lately but it's definitely a possibility since it was never that high in the first place (hence the pump). Is lowering the start-up threshold something I could attempt myself, or is this definitely a job for the service guy? And am I better off going with an independent plumber? I'm not impressed with my first impression of the official service place; the guy on the phone barely listened to my explanation, insisting it had to be the electricity supply and was a patronising **&(*&(.

Cheers,

P.

cc

i would go for a service, plumbers in my opinion (sorry to all the plumbers out there!) tend to want to replace whole products, as finding faults especially if its something like a pcb, is not something they would generally know about and i suppose its not really a plumbing issue to begin with, so its easier them to go and buy a new pump.

I'd say just instist on a service. I find the M330N a very reliable pump but have had one or two problems with the PCB boards, when you unplug for 10 seconds to reset the pump its actually the pcb your resetting. He could be right about your electrical supply....but i'd say its a slim possiblilty!

10-10-20

I notice that some of the pumps don't have high/low pressure adjustment which is accessable to the user.

What do you get for the €118 charge? Is it under warranty? How old is it?

therussian

Did you ever get that problem sorted?? I am actually experiencing the exact same problem at the momment. Apartment is only a year old. Developer has given me number for Modern Plant and said they are best for servicing, how did you find them?? Was anyone able to give you an answer??

oceanclub

Yup, I did get it sorted. Turns out the pump wasn't that model I mentioned; that's what the sticker said, but it was a different (weaker) model; too weak for our apartment, from what the service guy said. Faulty circuit board was the problem, and the damage was €129.

P.

therussian

Thanks for getting back so quickly. Modern plant are supposed to be out this week to check the pump. They said on phone that they suspected that it was the pcb. However, I suspect I may be in the same boat as you with regard the pump being too weak. Will be interesting to see if I have the correct model under the hood!! Was your apartment new? Did you go back to the developer about the incorrect pump being fitted?

s_gr

Hi,

I had a problem 2 weeks ago with a stuart turner pump. Just got a pcb assembly board from modern plant on the naas road for €45 and fitted it myself. Pump working perfect now, modern plant a pretty good to deal with anyway.

chris murphy

How would i go about resetting the pump as i knocked of the main trip switch on the ELCB yesterday to replace a switch on one of my storage heaters and since turning the trip switch back on i have had no hot water pressure. Be nice to eliminate the obvious problems before putting in a service call.

thanks,

endaob

I'm having a similar problem. First of all, the pump failed completely. Rang a plumber who said the PCB was gone, so he replaced it and all was OK for two weeks. Then hot water pressure went, rang plumber again, different fella came out took it apart, again fine for two weeks. Now the pressure goes intermittently. Turning off for a few seconds solves the problems sometimes, but not always.

The apartment is 2 and a half years old - how long is the warranty with Modern Plant? Did any of you have any joy with your builders in reclaiming some of your spend?

Thanks

uberwolf

very interested in this thread.

In apartments the water pressure is exclusively the remit of the pump. The 330 is a negative head pump. This is because there is no gravity to get the water moving first. Single storey and all that.

I had my PCB replaced, and weeks later it went again. Ended up getting the pump replaced in its entirety. Not Cheap.

The pump shouldn't be used as a direct feed for condenser driers. Which mine was, and would be standard for most apartments. The warranty is for 1 year on the 330, 2 years on some of the more powerful pumps. Modern Pumps agents - (shower doctors) told me that the 330 was more than powerful enough.

The warranty is automatically void if the pump is used as a feed for the drier.

A friend of mine was successful in having the builders pay for the new pump, and I will be writing to mine seeking the cost of the replacement.

uberwolf

chris murphy wrote: »

How would i go about resetting the pump as i knocked of the main trip switch on the ELCB yesterday to replace a switch on one of my storage heaters and since turning the trip switch back on i have had no hot water pressure. Be nice to eliminate the obvious problems before putting in a service call.

thanks,

if it's the 330, turn off the main switch for 10 seconds to reset the pump, and then close and open the pipes feeding the pump. You should hear it kick into action.

endaob

Thanks for that Uberwolf ... sounds very similar to my situation. The PCB still seems to be working - I can hear it clicking when i turn on a tap. But the pump itself gets very hot after being in use for a while, so i have to turn off the power to it and let it rest before it will work again. I've got a condenser drier too ... having a plumber who is a friend of a friend come round next week to look at it. If it's a new pump required I'll be getting back to the builders ... if I get something out of them I'll owe you a pint or two!

uberwolf

endaob wrote: »

Thanks for that Uberwolf ... sounds very similar to my situation. The PCB still seems to be working - I can hear it clicking when i turn on a tap. But the pump itself gets very hot after being in use for a while, so i have to turn off the power to it and let it rest before it will work again. I've got a condenser drier too ... having a plumber who is a friend of a friend come round next week to look at it. If it's a new pump required I'll be getting back to the builders ... if I get something out of them I'll owe you a pint or two!

I received a somewhat aggressive phonecall from the original plumber (someone who'd worked for the builder), because the condenser drier line had obviously been repeated by the foreman to him. He'd 'installed thousands of these and never heard of that' I asked him how he'd never managed to look at the front page of the manual.

timbook

Hi folks. Ok I have this Stuart M330N pump and the pressure is gone on it but I cannot seem to reset it. I have read above, someone set unplug it? Then someone said turn off the main switch for 10 seconds. Excuse my innocence but is there a switch on the pump unit that you are talking about? Because I cannot find it? Where is it located on the unit? Or do you mean the full electrical power to the house for 10 seconds, or do you mean the fuse for the pump only? I have tried turning off the fuse for the pump for 10 seconds but it hasn't worked. Also about a year ago, a plumber came out to me and reset it for me for the same problem. It's having a knock on effect to my GAS unit too, as I cannot get the pressure gauge up and it's struggling. SO if anyone can tell me exactly how to reset, ie, what main switch etc, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

endaob

There should be a switch on the wall near the pump. You should be able to see the power lead going into the pump, and a switch on the wall with a light above it, similar to an electric cooker switch. Knock that off, count to 10 and turn it back on. What I noticed with mine is that the unit seems to overheat, so I have to leave it off for an hour or two before turning it on again. Hope this helps you.

timbook

Hi Endaob, thanks for the reply. I'll have a look, but I think mine goes to a fuse, rather than a switch. I have changed the 5amp fuse recently. Under the fuse is another small unit with 2 lights on it. This usually activates when the pump clicks in too. Maybe there is something around there to control it? I'll check again now though. Meantime if you can suggest anything more.........? Great.

timbook

OK, so there is no switch on the wall. The Cable coming from the pump goes to a 5AMP fuse on the wall, which I have changed. Still doesn't work.

I remember when the plumber reset it the last time, he referred to 'resetting the card'. SO if anyone can shed some light on that I'd appreciate it. Where is the card and how do I reset it!! Thanks

endaob

Maybe "resetting the card" is the same as resetting the Printed Circuit Board (PCB)? It could be the PCB has blown ... when you turn a tap on or off, can you hear a clicking sound coming from the pump? You should hear a little click as the pump engages. Manual for the pump can be found online here: www.stuart-turner.co.uk/PDF/18059-20-11.pdf If you know something about DIY you could try replacing it yourself ... personally speaking I'd be wary of fiddling around with those pumps myself ... mixing water and electricity and all that.

timbook

Thanks for that. I can hear a very gentle and quiet single click(not so thin a sound though) when I toggle the single tap unit from left to right for hot and cold and when I open the tap initially. I guess this is the pump trying to engage, but I could be wrong?

oceanclub

More feckin' pump woes. We've now had two leaks from ours, both times at the nuts of one of the four connectors into the pump. The landlord fixed the problem last time, presumably by just tightening the nut, but it comes loose again - luckily I spotted it quickly this time.

Is simply tightening a nut for a pipe connected to a pumo sufficiently, or does it need to be sealed in some manner?

P.

10-10-20

All my connections around the pump have rubber washers. I had to replace one recently - it started dripping when the pump was engaged.

Mick1978

Hi guys,

I have same problem with this type of pump(kepps shuting off for no apparent reason) and is only about 18 months old.Warranty is only 12 months.Can anyone advise for how long can you keep switching this off and back on before it completely brakes down?On mine, it works if I turn it off and back on,but again it stops working after few hours,or sometimes last 24 hours without being reset.Can anyone also advise where can you buy a cheap one and how much it costs if I have to replace the whole thing?

Thank you all for info posted!

endaob

I rang Modern Plant - http://www.modernplant.ie/ - to see if they had a service dept. They took my details and told me someone would get back to me. A day or two later someone from the shower doctors - http://www.theshowerdoctors.ie/ - rang me and came out later that day. I explained the problem, he knew straight away what the fault was - a blown capacitor. Showed me where the old one had expanded, fitted a new one, and it's been right as rain since. Fingers crossed it keeps going that way. Cost around €125. Hope this sorts out your problem, it's incredibly annoying having to switch the damn pump on and off the whole time...

Steo M

Thanks Endaob for having the decency to post the fault & repair to your Stuart Turner pump . I too had a similar problems with my pump & the maintenance contractor to my apartment block told me the pcb was funked. As I'm handy enough with electrics I fitted a new circuit board & still the same problem with the pump(grrrr :mad:, waste of 51 euros).
I took Enda's advice but the robbing gits in m****n p***t wanted another 50 euro for a capacitor :eek:. I went down to Radionics (local electrical component supplier) & bought the same capacitor for just over a fiver, handy fit, just two wires with spade connections & the pump is working perfect now . Lesson to anyone 'shop around'!

Sir Arsalot

Hi everybody,

Similar problem here with a Stuart Turner 330 negative pump. At first when it went off, flicking the main trip switch down and back up kicked it into gear again and it would fill the toilet cistern, and stop. Then you'd turn on the tap and there'd be pressure for the first few seconds , but then it would go down again.
Now it's not even responding to switching off and on the power.
It broke down two years ago aswell, and I was told by Stuart Turner to order a new pcb. I fitted that and no problem. But this time I'm wondering if it's the pcb, the flow capacitator , or something more sinister.
( From Modern Plant - a flow capacitator is 27 Euro apparently , whereas a pcb is over 52 Euro ).
I'd certainly like to know where in Cork city I could get a cheaper flow capacitator, so I can try that first - and if it's not that then order a new pcb.

I'm aware that this happens as a result of power surges, and someone else in my building's pump also went recently.
Wondering also, if there's something you can do to protect the pump from power surges - like a special socket. It's just got a fuse socket with a red neon light on it. ( The fuse is fine ) .

Any enlightenment would be appreciated !

The Shower Doctors

Hi there
You will find the new PCB is less susceptible to power surges and low voltage if you were to replace the old one.
Also all the new PCB's have dry run protection built in as far as I know.

Cheers
Steve

Joey the lips

Sir Arsalot wrote: »

Hi everybody,

Similar problem here with a Stuart Turner 330 negative pump. At first when it went off, flicking the main trip switch down and back up kicked it into gear again and it would fill the toilet cistern, and stop. Then you'd turn on the tap and there'd be pressure for the first few seconds , but then it would go down again.
Now it's not even responding to switching off and on the power.
It broke down two years ago aswell, and I was told by Stuart Turner to order a new pcb. I fitted that and no problem. But this time I'm wondering if it's the pcb, the flow capacitator , or something more sinister.
( From Modern Plant - a flow capacitator is 27 Euro apparently , whereas a pcb is over 52 Euro ).
I'd certainly like to know where in Cork city I could get a cheaper flow capacitator, so I can try that first - and if it's not that then order a new pcb.

I'm aware that this happens as a result of power surges, and someone else in my building's pump also went recently.
Wondering also, if there's something you can do to protect the pump from power surges - like a special socket. It's just got a fuse socket with a red neon light on it. ( The fuse is fine ) .

Any enlightenment would be appreciated !

Fused spur...

The Shower Doctors wrote: »

Hi there
You will find the new PCB is less susceptible to power surges and low voltage if you were to replace the old one.
Also all the new PCB's have dry run protection built in as far as I know.

Cheers
Steve

All monsoon pumps have good pcb boards but unless the pump is fitted correctly with a fused spur to cut down on surges no amount of "gold" in the PCB will protect it.

Sir Arsalot

The Shower Doctors wrote: »

Hi there
You will find the new PCB is less susceptible to power surges and low voltage if you were to replace the old one.
Also all the new PCB's have dry run protection built in as far as I know.

Cheers
Steve

Thanks that's good to know about the new PCBs. I ordered one from Modern Plant, having been on the phone with the Stuart Turner people who said this was likely it. Fitted it and now I'm getting a loud hum coming from the pump area.
( It's still not working properly ).
I'm guessing it WAS the PCB and now because the pump's not been working a few days it's jammed

Sir Arsalot

Joey the lips wrote: »

Fused spur...



All monsoon pumps have good pcb boards but unless the pump is fitted correctly with a fused spur to cut down on surges no amount of "gold" in the PCB will protect it.

Mine's got a fused spur
( socket box with red neon light ? ) but that didn't stop the power surge from affecting the pump pcb. I DO hope the new pcb I bought is superior, otherwise it was a waste considering it looks like I'll have to call a service agent anyway.
Would anyone happen to know who to call in the Cork city area?

antoinolachtnai

A fused spur isn't going to make much difference to whether you have surges or not.

If it still isn't running, it's likely the capacitor. Have a look at the big white thing and see if it is irregular/swollen in shape. If it is, it probably needs to be replaced.

Sir Arsalot

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A fused spur isn't going to make much difference to whether you have surges or not.

If it still isn't running, it's likely the capacitor. Have a look at the big white thing and see if it is irregular/swollen in shape. If it is, it probably needs to be replaced.

The flow cap LOOKS to be fine - it's not burnt or expanded-looking.
We've temporarily got a hose hooked up from the cold tap on the bath to the toilet cistern to fill it after each flush ( all mod cons here )
I read elsewhere that leaving the pump off and running the cold tap can cause it to jam ?

antoinolachtnai

Surely the pump drives the cold water to the bath as well, no? It is weird if the bath runs but the toilet does not. But that's separate from the pump.

I would ask Stuart Turner and/or Modern Plant for their view on how to go forward. I would have my doubts as to whether the pump would jam that easy. At heart, these are pretty decent pumps.

It would be worth replacing the cap just in case, I think, before starting to pull the pump to bits.

aregan

Hi,
I've got a similar problem. We've got a Stuart Turner M330N with dry run protection. A year or two ago it completely stopped working, so I popped down to moden plant and got a replacement circuit board - that fixed that problem.

About three months ago it started given problems where it would not run some times. We'd turn on the tap, here a quiet click and then nothing.
Reseting the power a few times usually cleared the problem. We called a plumber, he took it appart - put it back together and it worked again for a month or so. He said it was dirt.

Now its becomming very unreliable. Most mornings it doesn't work without a few resets and a prayer.

I've read some people suggesting it could be the capacitor. I've just removed the cover and took a quick look. I can see the big white capiciator and at a glance it doesn't look like its any visible defects - but I aint know capicator expert. Not sure either how long those bad boys hold their charge after powering off.

Does this problem sound familiar to anyone?

Alan

Sir Arsalot

aregan wrote: »

Hi,
I've got a similar problem. We've got a Stuart Turner M330N with dry run protection. A year or two ago it completely stopped working, so I popped down to moden plant and got a replacement circuit board - that fixed that problem.

About three months ago it started given problems where it would not run some times. We'd turn on the tap, here a quiet click and then nothing.
Reseting the power a few times usually cleared the problem. We called a plumber, he took it appart - put it back together and it worked again for a month or so. He said it was dirt.

Now its becomming very unreliable. Most mornings it doesn't work without a few resets and a prayer.

I've read some people suggesting it could be the capacitor. I've just removed the cover and took a quick look. I can see the big white capiciator and at a glance it doesn't look like its any visible defects - but I aint know capicator expert. Not sure either how long those bad boys hold their charge after powering off.

Does this problem sound familiar to anyone?

Alan

If there was a power surge in your area 3 months ago I'd say it's likely to be a new pcb again you need.
I replaced my pcb a few years ago too but I still had to get another one a few months ago after a surge.
According to Antoin the new ones have better surge protection so that's good news.
I'd just like to share how I fixed mine - it WAS the pcb, but because we left it off a while, the pump had seized, and with the new pcb fitted it just hummed when the power was switched on. ( I figured it wasn't the flow cap because that wasn't burnt or swollen ).
Tried to reach in with a screwdriver to move the impeller but couldn't even budge it.
Rang Modern Plant for some advice - they were very helpful - and then I tried a few things. Here's what got it working again.

You leave the water knobs open and loosen the 4 screws at both ends of the pump, but don't open them completely or obviously water will leak out.
Then you switch on the power to the pump , turn on a tap or the shower , and whack both ends lightly with a piece of timber. ( not metal as that might damage it ).
If it doesn't work the first time try it again.
When it starts up, you leave the tap or shower running a few minutes and tighten up the screws again.

Mine started up the second time I tried that, but if that doesn't work at all, you put the power back off, turn off all the water knobs as far as they will go, and then turn on a tap/shower to get some of the water out before opening - otherwise it will leak a couple of pints of water onto the floor of the hotpress.
Then you open the 4 screws at one or other end fully.
( Make sure the power is OFF - the impeller would take your fingers off when it starts up ).
Take the brass cap off and turn the impeller a few times to get it moving.
Then put the cap back on and screws back in securely, and turn the knobs back all the way. Have the tap/shower on again and THEN switch on the power to see if it now works.
You might have to whack it again with the piece of timber.

Hope that helps somebody who has a seizing pump - try that before calling the local service guy.

The Shower Doctors

This Could be a Pressure Switch problem.If the shower is operated with the handset still up high in the mounting bracket does the pump run?
If the answer is no, try running the bath.If the pump comes on when the bath is run it is operating on the reed switches and not the pressure switch as a negative head pump should.
I hope this helps.