Interesting live hand.

insafehands

Effective stacks, €250.

Villain is LAG, limping or raising in 80%+ hands, and has shown resistance to raises, despite his wide range.

I'm on the button and get A9s, Villain is UTG.

Villain limps, as do 4 others, none of them particularly good. I make it 10 to go. Back to villain and he makes it 30.

Folded to me. Now this is usually a fold against most people, but this guy really can raise with ATC so I call.

Flop comes Q 9 4r.

Villain bets 40. Standard enough c-bet this guy, although it's usually been in the range 20-30. I flat call.

Turn comes Kh, giving villain a possible flush draw.

Villain checks. I don't go with my read here and check behind. It was a mistake as I'm pretty sure a €50+ bet takes it here.

River comes 10h.

Villain checks. Any 10 J Q, or two hearts beats me now.

And now perhaps my second mistake. I feel it's quite possible Villain has A4 here, or even ace high as he's shown down a few times with that holding.

I bet 40. Villain thinks for about 10 seconds and raises me all-in.

Now I'm thinking "you fcuking eejit, why didn't you fcuking check! you are such a fcuking fish!!!"

Then I've got a decision to make.

It's 140 more for me to call, and the pot is 360 I think, so I'm getting just over 2.5:1.

I'm getting pretty good odds here, and it's quite possible Villain has 72o as much as a 10 or a J.

Action?

MacStacked

Why make it 10 preflop? Raise the max..

Fold.

eoghan104

Foldski unless he is actually a silverback gorilla and not a human being.......... Actually even then your prob beat.

Killme00

Bet the turn
Check the river...dont reopen the betting on the river...fold to his allin

Hectorjelly

gross

Ste05

Hectorjelly wrote:

gross

yup, pretty horrible hand from start to finish.

One thing that's slightly annoying me lately is people misusing the title LAG when describing players.

A person who limp raises UTG and is playing 80% of his hands is a retard not a LAG.

You get good and (usually) bad LAG's but a LAG is someone who is Loose, not mental, (~26-38% VPiP) and Aggressive, as opposed to a TAG (~17-25% VPiP) or a TP (tight passive) LP (loose passive/ fish), maniac, etc. etc. The Villain in this hand just seems like an average run of the mill donk/fish/maniac.

And obviously fold the River, but I don't think I would have made any of the actions you did in this hand.

PF: I limp behind or raise Pot, when you were re-raised I would have folded.

Flop, If I limped the action will be different, I might call 1 bet somewhere, but probably fold. If I raised pot again the action and players involved would have been different.

Turn/ River, I can't see how I would ever have got into those situations....

[EDIT: BTW, my mini rant about the use of the term LAG, isn't directed at the OP solely, I'm seeing it alot around here lately, and this one just triggered it off :rolleyes:]

bops

you cant beat the old crai otr! serves you right for value betting with 99

i hope you fold and he show poooo :eek:

(was is me by any chance?)

bops

Ste05 wrote:

A person who limp raises UTG and is playing 80% of his hands is a retard not a LAG.

excellent point btw

careca

insafehands wrote:

It's 140 more for me to call, and the pot is 360 I think, so I'm getting just over 2.5:1.

I'm getting pretty good odds here,
Action?

Definite fold. You're now really getting good odds at all. Its close to impossible not to get 2/1 odds, so the extra .5 isn't really making that much of a difference.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ace2007

by the way u played this hand ur the lag type player.....

mickste

You have put no thought in how to take this pot down op. preflop and postflop. You're trying to justify a call here. It's horrible.

Ace2007

it looks as if - u were hoping he'd give up betting and u'd check the river and u win- and look all high and mighty- going to cost u a fair bit to look like that now..

just give up....

CaptainNemo

The bet on the river is horrible. You just have to check in that spot. Now you have to fold.

Theresalwaysone

Your beaten all ends up here even against said maniac. Not liking how you played any street but especially the river bet, were you bluffing or were you value betting?

Value Betting here with a pair of nines doesnt make sense. He is not going to call with a worse hand than yours i.e. 88 77 66 55 or A4 etc but being so agressive may attempt a bluff after you bet 40 knowing he can't win a showdown and that the pot is worth bluffing at.

And Bluffing into such a scary board with a crap 40 bet is just asking for trouble. IN FACT I would never attempt a bluff here,( as it is going to possibly cost you your stack) I don't think it would work often enough for it to be profitable.

If you think your nine might be good, check call the river to any weakish bet from said villian.

kryogen

This is one of the worst played hands posted here in a while....

shockingly bad

Ace2007

i take it u called and lost????

everyone who has posted on here - would love to get u on a cash table...
are u tadgh by an chance.... sounds something like he'd do (maybe he's changed)

Theresalwaysone

Not liking the harshness ACE2007. He prob knows by now he played it brutally.

Fair Balls to him for tryin to improve.

Ste05

I'd be fairly sure if anything he called and won.

phantom_lord

Ste05 wrote:

One thing that's slightly annoying me lately is people misusing the title LAG when describing players.

tag is massively misused as well unfortunately.

Ste05

phantom_lord wrote:

tag is massively misused as well unfortunately.

True, I wish people would just say "Loose" instead of LAG and "Tight" instead of TAG, unless they actually mean a LAG or TAG, they are a very specific type of player.

How often do we see "Solid TAG limps in EP...." or "LAG min-raises in the CO...." etc. etc. without reading on it's obvious both descriptions are wrong... :rolleyes:

Mr.Plough

Theresalwaysone wrote:

Not liking the harshness ACE2007. He prob knows by now he played it brutally.

Fair Balls to him for tryin to improve.

.

Moneymaker

I don't understand that river bet at all. I mean, your hand is good enough to showdown, but not good enough to call a re-raise for your whole tank.

I'd have just shown it down, and if its good, you win a small pot. If not, you lose a small pot. Now, you've needlessly put horrible pressure on yourself.

insafehands

Meh.

It looks, and was, horrible.

The bet on the river was really, really bad, and it's actually quite embarrassing posting it but nonetheless, I did win, although with a bit of difficulty.

I thought it was of interest as when the hands were being declared, I waited for him to show first. He said straight but didn't show, and I picked up my cards to muck.

The guy beside him says "no, you don't have a straight" and in the confusion the guy shows 88. He stands up, goes "cheating scum" and walks off.

Lesson: never muck without seeing opposition cards.

The hand was horrible, and I really don't get my river bet, but I particularly don't understand his push. Horrible in every way I guess.

And ACE, I appreciate your comments most of all, cheers buddy! In fact, I'm up for a HU match whenever you want, preferably live though; that is what you'd want, right?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

El Stuntman

insafehands wrote:

The guy beside him says "no, you don't have a straight" and in the confusion the guy shows 88. He stands up, goes "cheating scum" and walks off.

hahahaha, classic

(wasn't a certain well-known DJ by any chance?)

ligger

El Stuntman wrote:

(wasn't a certain well-known DJ by any chance?)

I thought he was on a poker sabatical? Is he back??

Ste05

LuckyLloyd wrote:

WTF????? :eek: :mad:

I would make a huge mega deal over such behaviour and raise it with the poker floor manager. I would expect them to be banned in all honesty.

Seriously.... what a fcuking Moran, calling someone else "cheating scum"!!! :mad:

El Stuntman

ligger wrote:

I thought he was on a poker sabatical? Is he back??

no idea, just sounded like his modus operandi

ligger

El Stuntman wrote:

no idea, just sounded like his modus operandi

I agree the circumstantial evidence alone is enough for a conviction here you would feel.

LuckyLloyd

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Ace2007

insafehands wrote:

And ACE, I appreciate your comments most of all, cheers buddy! In fact, I'm up for a HU match whenever you want, preferably live though; that is what you'd want, right?

i was jokin about the comment, of getting u onto a live game... take it easy,
i don't play cash games...

Ace2007

LuckyLloyd wrote:

tbh - this is a really serious accusation insafehands. If you know who the guy is, please name and shame.

that will probably get deleted before anyone gets a chance of reading it...or get ur banned, as i was told.....

Ste05

Not if it's first hand knowledge and the OP is willing to stand over it. Rumours and conjecture etc. are totally different.

Although we may have to check with the powers that be if insafehands is willing to stand over this serious accusation and is willing to name and shame. They may not want to be bothered with it.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah, I might have too, that's not on.

buck65

Fold , dust yourself off and get going again. I know sometimes I play a hand badly like this, the mind sometimes drifts. A bad player doesn't realise his mistake , a good one is always trying to improve, fair play for posting.

(Still you deserve the abuse:D )

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

what would happen in that case, if the person with the winning hand had mucked after a false declaration? would the cheater still get to keep the money, but be barred?

Tar.Aldarion

Would you get barred for lying about your cards?

Ace2007

no nothing would happen - he would win the hand and that would be it- other players may not like it, but nothing in the rule book about mis declaring hands afaik...(i stand corrected)

Ace2007

just as a matter of interest to the OP, would you have folded ur hand had the other player not opened his mouth. It was unecthical (can't spell but u know what i mean) by the player who declared his hand wrong, but also the player who stated that "he didn't have a straight" shouldn't have said anything either.....

insafehands

Ace2007 wrote:

just as a matter of interest to the OP, would you have folded ur hand had the other player not opened his mouth. It was unecthical (can't spell but u know what i mean) by the player who declared his hand wrong, but also the player who stated that "he didn't have a straight" shouldn't have said anything either.....

Yeah I was in the process of doing so. To be honest, it could've been a mis-read, he didn't seem like the type to do this purposely. Still, maybe he was a bit pissed with the call?

I think the other guy was right to say something, all betting was over and he did the right thing imo.

I have no idea who the guy is, and wasn't sure if I'd seen him before or not. Was just pretty happy that I won the pot.

Anyway, as I wasn't sure whether it was a genuine attempt at stealing the pot, I wouldn't want to name and shame the guy.

In fact, just let the thread die, the hand is disgusting.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ace2007

i'm fairly confident that "insisting" on a split pot would get you no were nor would getting him "ejected", as its not in the rules - is it?

As for the guy lookin at his hand, i know of this happening in omaha the other day for example, and indeed a while ago with me. both incidents were the same.. I declard 2 pair, and other player declard higher 2 pair... i was going to fold, and the player beside me stated that i had a higher 2 pair again(i.e i had 3 pair). though nothing was said to me - i got a few looks as did the player who saw my hand. i've also witness, last week, a player(A) declard a pair in omaha(he missed his flush draw) another player(B) declard trips, and, A was about to fold, when the player beside said the he had hit a straight(runner runner), words were said that he should of kept his mouth shut, as player A didn't expose his cards to the table.. In the end, Player A decided to spilt the pot.

I accept that in both of these cases, players were unaware of their hands(i.e runner runner and in my case not realising), but no one should state someone elses' hand.

Also i've seen guys folding winning hands at tables, but due to the fact that the dealer didn't c the cards, theres nothing that can be done and the other players rightly said nothing...

Not tryin to be awarkard about the issue..

Hectorjelly

two related questions

1) Why are you allowed to verbally misdeclare your hand

2) Surely its the responsibility of each player to protect their own hand. If someone can see your hand, you can hardly blame them for looking?

ollyk1

Ace2007 wrote:

i'm fairly confident that "insisting" on a split pot would get you no were nor would getting him "ejected", as its not in the rules - is it?

As for the guy lookin at his hand, i know of this happening in omaha the other day for example, and indeed a while ago with me. both incidents were the same.. I declard 2 pair, and other player declard higher 2 pair... i was going to fold, and the player beside me stated that i had a higher 2 pair again(i.e i had 3 pair). though nothing was said to me - i got a few looks as did the player who saw my hand. i've also witness, last week, a player(A) declard a pair in omaha(he missed his flush draw) another player(B) declard trips, and, A was about to fold, when the player beside said the he had hit a straight(runner runner), words were said that he should of kept his mouth shut, as player A didn't expose his cards to the table.. In the end, Player A decided to spilt the pot.

I accept that in both of these cases, players were unaware of their hands(i.e runner runner and in my case not realising), but no one should state someone elses' hand.

Also i've seen guys folding winning hands at tables, but due to the fact that the dealer didn't c the cards, theres nothing that can be done and the other players rightly said nothing...

Not tryin to be awarkard about the issue..

This is a funny issue

If someone misdeclares/misreads their hand and as a result thinks they've lost the hand I don't correct them.

If someone misdeclares their hand in such a way that their opponent may muck a winning hand I do correct them.

I guess I don't think someone should benefit from a mistake they make (and it could be an angle shoot). If someone makes a mistake costing themselves money that's their problem. I'm not going to correct your play or give lessons and if you can't read you hand in omaha or texas hold-em, well the sooner you learn that you shouldn't be playing poker the better!

My advice to newbies is if in doubt show your hand face up. If they think they are able to read their own cards and the board then they don't need my help.

Ace2007

if someone else sees your hand during play - ur hand (and if they have one) are both dead.. aren't they?

i'm not sayin ur allowed verbally misdeclare ur hand, i'm sayin that its not in the rules + why do ppl say "cards do the talking" obv for this reason of misdeclaring.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ace2007

well, best thing is next time ur in ur local casino - ask them the rule about misdeclaring your hand and what happens to the player who does it and the pot..if you have mucked ur cards. The pot will never be split(unless the person who declares his hand asks for it to be split), the player will also not thrown out- might (only might) get a warning or told that its bad etiquette.

El Stuntman

ollyk1 wrote:

This is a funny issue

If someone misdeclares/misreads their hand and as a result thinks they've lost the hand I don't correct them.

lol, I see they even do this in the WSOP ME (from Lloyd's pal's blog)

"After this little incident I play perhaps the most mind boggling hand of my poker career. It was vs Seat 4 again, and went down as follows:
My stack: ~380k
Seat 4: ~300k
Blinds 1000/2000 with 300 ante. I holds Ad8d UTG+1. (The raise will seem a little loose and small, but I can assure you at this table, it was all that was necessary.)

Preflop: UTG folds, I raise to 6500, folds to seat 4 in BB, BB calls.
Flop: Th 8h 5s
BB checks, I bet 8500, BB calls. I table is still in a joking mood so I say to the dealer “no heart! For the love of god no heart!”
Turn: Jc
BB checks, I check.
River: Ac
BB checks. I figure it’s going to be very hard to get value from him so I bet really tiny, 13k. The BB quickly flips his cards face up towards the muck but not in the muck. I look over, yep I was right, two hearts. NO WAIT. THAT’S THE QUEEN OF HEARTS AND NINE OF HEARTS. I think for sure the BB must have misread his hand.
“You folded a straight???”
The BB replies in the most calm and serious of manner
”That’s right. I folded a straight.”
All over the table, heads ASPLODE. I look over at Tim and seat 8 on my left, and we are all giving each other the most “WTF!?!?!” look I can imagine."

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Killme00

Good fold..i nearly ASPLODED