Info would be real sound :)

TheViking

Hey guys

i would love to start some sort of self defence

i am a pretty big guy 6.3 and strong enuff but i want to have some skill if i need to protect myself i dont just want to relie on being a big dude

and i smoke alot so i am pretty unfit ideally i would love to give up somking and replace it with training

any recomendations ? ? i went to a ninjitsu class once and the warm up destroyed me it was 35 mins i think ... it really ****ed me up being thrown into the deep end like that

please help

The viking

Khannie

Where do you live?

Honestly, for any kind of realistic self defence, you're gonna have to give up the fags. Give allan carr a lash. Worked for me after 15 years of smoking! :eek: I think there's a quitting smoking forum on here somewhere.

Also, as a smoker, and an admittedly unfit one, you should expect to be fecked by any kind of exercise for about 3 months. Man....I can't believe how unfit I used to be.

yomchi

Steer clear of anywhere that does a 35 minute warm up, obviously haven't a breeze what they're at!

TheViking

Ha ha yeah i must give it a read ..ok so if a give up it will take 3 months before i can get fit ? and take things seriously

what about krav maga?

i work in the city center and live in westmeath

Bad Dog MMA

Dont know about Krav Maga but There's a kick boxing club that runs in Ballivor, right on the Meath/West Meath border.

paul moran

Steer clear of anywhere that does a 35 minute warm up, obviously haven't a breeze what they're at!

Why do you say that? Just curious??:rolleyes:

dlofnep

You don't need anyone to help you quit smoking. I quit after smoking for 10 years at the flash of an eyelid. It takes 2 weeks to get rid of the physical addiction, after that it's all mental.

Anywhere you train, if they are not doing a warmup - then you're very prone to injury. 35 minutes is a tad excessive though. 15 minutes should do it. Check out a muay thai, boxing or mma club. All will push you to get in shape and you'll learn very practical technique.

Gorman

dlofnep wrote:

You don't need anyone to help you quit smoking. I quit after smoking for 10 years at the flash of an eyelid. It takes 2 weeks to get rid of the physical addiction, after that it's all mental.

I agree completely, I was a smoker for ten years also, I went to 3 BJJ classes and gave up. I really wanted to quit beforehand, doing a new sport was the extra motivation. You'll can quit without any help if you really want to, cravings only last at most a few minutes.


Anywhere you train, if they are not doing a warmup - then you're very prone to injury. 35 minutes is a tad excessive though. 15 minutes should do it. Check out a muay thai, boxing or mma club. All will push you to get in shape and you'll learn very practical technique.

a good warmup should at the the least have you sweat and raise your heart rate even for the fittest people. I went to a few wresting practices where the warmup was at least 30min long, lots of sport specific exercises.


on a side note, why are you looking to do Self defence, any particular reason or is it just an interest?

dlofnep

Wrestling is competitive.. Those warmups are for endurance too. A normal warmup for your average class should be around 15 minutes.. After that, your muscles should be warmed up.. I guess it depends on the activity.. Something like wrestling requires the use of alot of seperate muscles, so you'd have to make sure they are all warm.

yomchi

paul moran wrote:

Why do you say that? Just curious??:rolleyes:

An efficient warm-up can be defined as a physiologically justified sequence
of exercises assembled together to achieve a particular task (Kurz, 2001)

he also said...

Warming up has to prepare all systems of the body in order to train at top
efficiency. It has to affect the heart, blood vessels, nervous system, muscles and
tendons, and the joints and ligaments. The goals of the warm-up are an improved
elasticity and contractibility of the muscles, greater efficiency of the respiratory and
cardiovascular systems, better concentration, and improved coordination, amongst
others. All these changes occur when the body temperature is increased by muscular
effort. The warm-up should start with exercise of low intensity and then progress to
the intensity of the exercises that are the main subject of your workout. Do not start a
warm-up with high-intensity exercises as these quickly use up stores of muscle
glycogen, reducing the ability to train effectively in the main part of the workout. A
warm-up should last between
15 and 20 minutes depending on the main task and
intensity of the workout.

Im a big fan of Kurz, he also says in his books that intense and pro-longed warm ups use up muscle glycogen which is needed to fuel the actual work out as well as mentally tiring the students out before they even begin to learn. Anyway the average class is an hour long, why spend half of that warming up?
Sorry straying off topic!

FunkZ

TheViking wrote:

i work in the city center and live in westmeath

You could try Kokoro MMA, it's in the city center, the times are 8 - 10 on Tuesdays and Thursdays, we meet outside Connoly Train Station at half seven and walk to training. :cool:

Gorman

Ok just to clarify; if it's a 30min warmup of push ups, situps, running and jumping jacks, I would agrees that it is overkill. However if the warm up is sport specific i think 30min+ is fine. Why wouldn't you want to gain some extra endurance?
I'm starting to see the same thinking in the BJJ classes I attend (depending on the instructor).

yomchi

Ideally endurance should be placed at the end of the work out/class.

kurz again;
Technical → Speed → Strength → Endurance → Cool down

throw into the pot that the average adult attention span is 20 mins and you've a good enough reason to keep it shorter than half an hour imo

Gorman

apologies to TheViking for hijacking the thread, but this is an interesting topic.
Jon can you give an outline of how the classes that you attend/run are structured? are the classes run differently coming up to a competition?
Do you start with a very light warmup, followed by technique then followed by endurance type activities?

Odysseus

TheViking wrote:

Ha ha yeah i must give it a read ..ok so if a give up it will take 3 months before i can get fit ? and take things seriously

what about krav maga?

i work in the city center and live in westmeath

Hi mate, just my thoughts I trained in KM for over four years as a smoker. So I would recommend it and would also say don't let the fact that you smoke stop you from training. Clearly it would be better if you stopped and that is something you can aim for and training in something would help with the motivation. But its hard and it may take time, I'm an endurance runner who smokes, an odd thing indeed, and I would be fitter and quicker if I stopped and plan to stop soon, but you can get somewhat fitter if you smoke. Best of luck with both your training and kicking the habit.

Khannie

TheViking wrote:

Ha ha yeah i must give it a read ..ok so if a give up it will take 3 months before i can get fit ? and take things seriously

Depends of course, but you'll see the benefits after 3 months, yeah.

TheViking wrote:

i work in the city center and live in westmeath

I have to recommend where I train..... Bridgestone Gym in town. It's a muay thai gym. Great for fitness and self defence.

dlofnep wrote:

You don't need anyone to help you quit smoking.

No harm getting some help. I smoked for 15 years and haven't even thought about smoking since reading allan carr.

yomchi

Gorman wrote:

apologies to TheViking for hijacking the thread, but this is an interesting topic.
Jon can you give an outline of how the classes that you attend/run are structured? are the classes run differently coming up to a competition?
Do you start with a very light warmup, followed by technique then followed by endurance type activities?

I generally follow the guidlines of Kurz.
Have a look at www.stadion.com for some interesting stuff on warm ups etc.

dlofnep

Khannie wrote:

No harm getting some help. I smoked for 15 years and haven't even thought about smoking since reading allan carr.

I haven't thought about smoking without reading Allan Carr. It's all willpower.

Khannie

dlofnep wrote:

It's all willpower.

That's such a crock. I'm delighted that you were successful in quitting, but many many people try and fail every day. Some last 6 months, or the most unfortunate last a lifetime but after 10 years still crave cigarettes. We've all heard of people like that. They have the willpower to quit, and stay off cigarettes, but still crave them years later when someone near them lights up. Who the hell wants that?

I invested 1 day in reading that book from cover to cover. Best investment I ever made.

MrO

Khannie wrote:

That's such a crock. I'm delighted that you were successful in quitting, but many many people try and fail every day. Some last 6 months, or the most unfortunate last a lifetime but after 10 years still crave cigarettes. We've all heard of people like that. They have the willpower to quit, and stay off cigarettes, but still crave them years later when someone near them lights up. Who the hell wants that?
QUOTE]

Agreed - I think some people trivialise how difficult it is. I read the book and stayed off for a couple of months but still managed to go back on them. As regards training - I've found over 10 years training you can be relatively fit and be a smoker but as has been said above the best thing is to get off them if you can. I wouldn't let it stop you from starting training in fact it may be the catalyst that makes you stop - if you're lucky.

I can't see anything wrong with a 30 minute warmup as long as it doesn't eat into your normal training time too much

dlofnep

Khannie wrote:

That's such a crock. I'm delighted that you were successful in quitting, but many many people try and fail every day. Some last 6 months, or the most unfortunate last a lifetime but after 10 years still crave cigarettes. We've all heard of people like that. They have the willpower to quit, and stay off cigarettes, but still crave them years later when someone near them lights up. Who the hell wants that?

I invested 1 day in reading that book from cover to cover. Best investment I ever made.

It's not a crock. It's your own willpower that keeps you off them. I used to smoke 40 fags a day and quit.. All these reading, patches and all that nonsense is just all in your mind.

You have to break your habits. Like a smoke after dinner? Turn that into a few chewy sweets, or a stick of gum after dinner. Anytime you get a craving, drink a glass of water. Etc..

You don't need a book to tell you these things. It is willpower.

Michael O Leary

Hi all,:)

Just my two cents.

I have found in the past that those without a good knowledge of their art would supplement the lack of knowledge with so-called extensive warm-ups. I trained as a fitness instructor years ago and the main thing is that the warm up should merely serve as a bridge between doing nothing and your chosen activity and should comprise about 5-10% of the workout. Anything more in time or intensity and it is not a warm-up but instead is conditioning/endurance. It is important to draw a distinction between the two.

Then with some arts the class itself is a gradual warm-up. For example in Wing Tsun you start off with forms, then certain drills, then applications, sparring and I end with pad work. So during the class itself the heart rate gradually increases, muscles get warmer and joints are lubricated. I feel it is the same in Thai Boxing/Muay Thai where the shadow boxing is used as a warm-up.

Then anything more then 5-10% of class time or an intense workout is not a warm-up but conditioning/endurance which is fair enough if it integral to the art and not just being used as a substitute for knowledge. For example in Muay Thai/Thai Boxing a considerable amount of time is spend on pad work. Is this conditioning? And then I imagine that Paul Moran has a lot of conditioning in his art which would seem to be fair enough.

Just don’t call it a warm-up.

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

yomchi

I have found in the past that those without a good knowledge of their art would supplement the lack of knowledge with so-called extensive warm-ups.

You see this alot in TKD

OldBloke

To the OP

If you live near Mullingar check out the Kyokushin Dojo there - Ken Fitzpatrick.

Or if you do want to train in Dublin then as someone has already suggested try Kokoro MMA.

Khannie

dlofnep wrote:

You don't need a book to tell you these things. It is willpower.

What you have put forward as the best ways to deal with the cravings are not what the book tells you. Quite the opposite. I didn't use any willpower. If you haven't read the book you may think that's weird / bull****, but those who have read it will know what I mean.

I had tried using willpower before in the past many times and failed over and over. Lasted 6 months once. By the time I was finished reading the book I never wanted to smoke again. It wasn't that I felt like I wanted a cigarette, then did my best to hide that feeling with a glass of water or sweets or nicotine gum or whatever. I just didn't want to smoke again. That's a very liberating feeling and totally different to that horrible feeling of "man....two weeks and I'm still gasping....when will this end?" that anyone who has tried to quit with willpower alone has gone through.

You and I just quit in different ways. That doesn't make my way wrong. Sure...willpower works for some people, but it's not the solution for everyone. It's your claim that it is the be all and end all that I'm calling a crock btw. I'm not saying that the willpower method doesn't work. Sure of course it does....you're living proof of it. My way works too though and I'm living proof of it.