Another SE hand

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 9:20am #1

The SE last night seems to be throwing up a few hands for analysis.... so here's another one.

Details are sketchy, but here's the main facts:

Blinds 150/300, ante 25

I have about 10k, other player has more... about double. I don't know him... I have the impression that he is somewhat loose.

I have been playing my usual TAG, but been very very card dead so I have played 2 hands in the last hour I'd say. I am looking for an opportunity to get a bet in in MP with any kind of a hand.

Folded to me in MP with 2s2d.

I raise to 1200 (ish)

folded to BB who calls.

Flop Kd8d5d (ish)

BB checks, I bet 3000 (ish) he calls

Turn Ad (ish... board is definitely now AdKdXdXd)

BB checks so I....

cooker3 · 08-07-2007 10:02am

Check, only a better hand will call if you bet.

sikes · 08-07-2007 11:02am

i dont like your bet sizing at all. definately check now. fold to a bet on the river

sumoward · 08-07-2007 11:30am

I was sitting across from you for that hand. i thought you play was spot on.

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 2:32pm

sikes wrote:

i dont like your bet sizing at all. definately check now. fold to a bet on the river

Hmmmm..... interesting.... I am not generally happy with the hand but thought the bet sizing was ok.

My logic was...

Bet of 1200 was I thought pretty standard. I could have called fishing for trips but thought my image (hardly played a hand) would let me take it down more than half the time. Pot was about 800 so I would be happy to win it there.

3000 was to put him off a flush draw. Perhaps I should have checked here in case I was being trapped, but it would be a strange board for him to trap on unless he had a real monster... I'd take my chances on that.

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 2:34pm

sumoward wrote:

i thought you play was spot on.

Thanks, but I don't really agree! I thought the preflop was ok, not sure about the post flop. Won't comment much yet on turn but I was not happy with it if you can remember what I did

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 2:34pm

cooker3 wrote:

Check, only a better hand will call if you bet.

What about his flush draw (i.e. if he has no diamonds in his hand)?

sikes · 08-07-2007 5:06pm

i dont like open raising 4x at this stage of the tourney in mp/lp especially on what is a steal. people are generally tight now, and will be calling off large % of their stack. Your steals are very expensive and you should be stealing a load with antes in play. Also, there is 700 in play atm not 800, 250+150+300

I dont see the need to bet such a large amount on the flop either, you have managed to commit almost 1/2 your stack at this stage which is such a horrible position to be in. I woud riase to 900 preflop and lead for 1800 on the flop, this is alot cheaper than your line and will have the same effect pretty much always.

What you do on the river if you checked the turn, is very much dependant on what you think of villain. If you think that you take the pot down more than half the time I would assume that his range is quite tight preflop, your 2d could be good.

Ace2007 · 08-07-2007 6:32pm

tbh, i think it looks ok, and don't necessily agree that if u bet- ur going to get called by a better hand- i do agree that if u bet and get called u will lose, but if u don't bet and he has say pocket pair with a diamond, would he have called a big bet on the turn/river. I too have a very tight image in tournaments, but tbh i would have stayed away from 22,

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 9:33pm

sikes wrote:

i dont like open raising 4x at this stage of the tourney .

I wd have thought standard with antes.

sikes wrote:

Also, there is 700 in play atm not 800, 250+150+300

.... ehhh.... whatever....

sikes wrote:

I dont see the need to bet such a large amount on the flop either, you have managed to commit almost 1/2 your stack at this stage which is such a horrible position to be in. I woud riase to 900 preflop and lead for 1800 on the flop, this is alot cheaper than your line and will have the same effect pretty much always.

Perhaps.... but difference is not as big as you paint it imo.

sikes wrote:

What you do on the river if you checked the turn, is very much dependant on what you think of villain. If you think that you take the pot down more than half the time I would assume that his range is quite tight preflop, your 2d could be good.

But what do I do on the turn?

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 9:38pm

Ace2007 wrote:

tbh, i think it looks ok, and don't necessily agree that if u bet- ur going to get called by a better hand- i do agree that if u bet and get called u will lose, but if u don't bet and he has say pocket pair with a diamond, would he have called a big bet on the turn/river. I too have a very tight image in tournaments, but tbh i would have stayed away from 22,

My objective here is certainly not to justify what I did do, but to get a view on what I should have done up to now / should do on the turn....

There was a comment earlier with some river type logic (from cooker3) saying that I should check as only a better hand will call. Is this also the right line on the turn? Does his potential flush draw (if he has no diamonds) make any difference?

sumoward · 08-07-2007 9:54pm

sumoward wrote:

I was sitting across from you for that hand. i thought you play was spot on.

Sorry should have been clearer, I was referring to your read on the villain.

cooker3 · 08-07-2007 10:13pm

Brayruit wrote:

My objective here is certainly not to justify what I did do, but to get a view on what I should have done up to now / should do on the turn....

There was a comment earlier with some river type logic (from cooker3) saying that I should check as only a better hand will call. Is this also the right line on the turn? Does his potential flush draw (if he has no diamonds) make any difference?

I really don't see why you would be worried about giving him a draw to a flush when it would be a split pot in anyway.
If you bet how likely is it he will call without a diamond, I think it is pretty slim

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 10:16pm

cooker3 wrote:

I really don't see why you would be worried about giving him a draw to a flush when it would be a split pot in anyway.
If you bet how likely is it he will call without a diamond, I think it is pretty slim

You are getting to the point that I am concerned about....

I didn't want to give him a draw to split the pot when I would rather keep it all for myself.

sikes · 08-07-2007 10:42pm

Brayruit wrote:

But what do I do on the turn?

you check, and its really not very close at all. He is never folding a weaker flush getting 2/1 and they way you have played the hand so aggressively. The Ad is a terrible card to hit the turn for you to bluff at. If a diamond hits the river so be it, but it could be a good card to save you from the rest of your stack. You cannot call any bet by him on the river if it does hit. Its difficult to put a player on a hand without any reads. I would guess he has 9x9d,TxTd, maybe Kx with a diamond.

As for raising with antes in play, it wouldnt suit the way I play and why I said I didnt like it. If you think it makes sense for you then fine but your range should widen as antes kick in, so you are stealing more, and you want to make the steals cheap.

Brayruit · 08-07-2007 11:05pm

I pushed the turn....

My thinking was to take it down in case a diamond came on the river.

He called and showed AxKx for two pair which I was surprised at. "Oh", I thought to myself, "I thought he would only call me with a diamond".... I realised the stupidity of this 5 seconds later.

4d came on the river and I considered myself both lucky and unlucky to chop if you see what I mean.

Thx all for comments.... albeit confirming what I thought, that I played it badly

Another SE hand

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