ACP - what's your views on it?

corkimp

Esri my 5 month old GSD gets motion sick in the car. I heard of tablets you can give dogs (and cats) to help relieve motion sickness. I tried the traveleze herbal tablets, they did calm her down but to be honest 4 tablets is a bit much. I went to the vet last friday and she gave me 2 ACP tablets. You give it to the dog 30-40 mins before you get into the car and they'll sleep for up to 6 hours! I gave one to her on Friday evening and it took 1 hr 25 mins to take effect - she didn't get sick and slept only 2 hours. We gave it to her again Sunday afternoon and it took 50 mins to take effect and she slept 2 hours 15 mins. It could be cos the dosage was a 10mg for a 10kgish dog and she is nearly 16kg. Would the dosage be the reason? Anyone else use it on their dogs?

peasant

I don't think that putting your dog "under" just so that you can take it for a drive is a good idea.

Firstly, with all medication there are side effects
Secondly, with anaesthetics there is always the danger that your dog won't wake up again, if you get the dosage wrong.

And thirdly, you may achieve the exact opposite of the desired "effect". Your dog isn't completely unconscious, just "groggy". Its senses still work though. It hears, sees and smells all those things that normally upset it so much while in the car, but it can't do anything about it because its "trapped" in this body that just won't react ...you may well traumatise your dog forever, doing this.


Get it used to driving in small steps. Start off with the dog just sitting in the parked car for a while, then in a car with the engine running, then just drivin around the block and then ever longer trips.

Always make sure that the experience is pleasant, that there is a reward at the end of it and don't progress to the next step until the dog is fully comfortable with the current one.

Its worth putting in the effort, because if you do it right, your dog will never have car trouble again.

luckat

Try ginger biscuits and bring her for a short drive (with newspapers covering the seat!)

If they work, try the biscuits again, on a slightly longer drive. Build the distances gradually up if they work.

peasant

Ginger biscuits ??

palaver

Don't know what ACP is, but my dog gets travelsick, too, whenever the journey is longer than 30-40 minutes. I bought ordinary travel sickness pills (Sea-Legs, suitable for children) and give her half a tablet about one hour before we hit the road. Works fine, since the pills don't make her sleep or drowsy and, most important, she doesn't vomit all over the car seat anymore.

She still hates driving though. But it's getting better. When heading home again she even climbs almost voluntarily into the car :cool:

Our man in Havana

peasant wrote:

Ginger biscuits ??

Ginger naturally helps settle tummies.

peasant

Ahhh ...I see !

sounds good to me ...plus you could use it as a "treat/reward" at the same time ...provided your dog likes ginger

fits

My dog used to get bad motion sickness. I began to limit his food before travelling as it ended up all over my car seat a few times.... In time he began to associate the car with nice things...
He just grew out of it, and now he loves the trips away in our camper van, although he does drool excessively for the first hour or so until he relaxes. (Hes nervy anyway)

I'm not sure about the ginger biscuits idea... but its worth a go as the reward for the short trips.

palaver

Bond-007 wrote:

Ginger naturally helps settle tummies.

You do know that there is hardly any real ginger in ginger biscuits? Instead it's full of sugar, artificial aroma, baking chemicals and stuff like that. Not exactly good for an upset doggie tummy, or any tummy.
Can't imagine that they have any effect. And I doubt that any dog would eat proper ginger, especially not the amount needed for a medical effect.

But then, I suppose a dog would even drive a car to get his fangs on a biscuit, ginger or not ...

corkimp

I tried limiting her food and she would physically start retching bringing up foamy saliva and bile. I associated the car with good things, she gets in willingly and everything but still gets sick. Brought her to the beach - its bout 20 mins away. She got sick twice but had loads of fun on the beach between trying to run after another families tennis ball and looking after my friends 3 y.o. girl! But she got into the car happily enough to go home, she was tired but still feeling sick. Tried walking her and tiring her out, but that didn't work.
I just tried the ACP. To be honest, I don't want her knocked out for longer then the drive as I want to bring her to visit family and friends. She is ok when she gets the Acp - and goes to sleep. She knows when she wakes up she'll be seeing Kesh - my sisters dog and is delighted when she sees him and Molly. I don't want her to be traumatic. What I want to know has anyone had side effects with their dogs on it.
Peasant - I tried the getting her in the car with engine off, thats ok even if she starts looking depressed after 15 mins, then with engine, she lasts about 15 mins in a car before getting ill. I make sure she is out cold before putting her in the car. She doesn't get sick with ACP and comes round fairly quick after the 2hr 30mins mark - always when I pull into the driveway. I know it's not "normal" for the dog to be "knocked out" but I don't want her freaking out for an entire journey of 2 hours. I drive carefully and pull in so tailgaters can flog off and go by. Most people though when they used to see her ears backed off at least. I acknowledge - and appreciate, your point of view, but my vet perscribed them to me to try them on her see if it helped. I get the impression you think I'm a bad owner - just because I want my dog comfortable so she can enjoy a weekend of play and attention with my family's dogs. Sorry if this sounds rude - that's not my intention - but that's the impression I got from your post.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Oh and she doesn't like ginger - unless its meat orientated she ain't interested!lol

peasant

Another thing that might help initially is to block off the side windows in the boot (or wherever in the car she sits) as the "rushing by" of scenery can be quite nauseating. She should feel better if she can only see out front or back.

Try it on a short run, if you see any improvement ...worked for one of our dogs.

luckat

I didn't know that there was hardly any ginger in ginger biscuits - but they worked for my ex-dog (+RIP+), who used to get terrible car sickness. Maybe home-made ginger biscuits would work even better!

fits

What would she be like if she came around in the car, while you were still travelling? I wonder would it be worth trying, as well as blocking out the windows etc...
Some people suggest taking the dogs on a really long journey, until they realise theres nothing to stress about anymore, that would kind of tie in with my experience with my whippet and the camper van. I'd imagine its success would depend on whether the sickness is caused by stress, or by motion sickness.

I'm not saying that you should do this btw, just that I've heard of it done. Your dog sounds like an extreme case.

palaver

luckat wrote:

I didn't know that there was hardly any ginger in ginger biscuits - but they worked for my ex-dog (+RIP+), who used to get terrible car sickness. Maybe home-made ginger biscuits would work even better!

Maybe it was just the treat as such? That travelling meant biscuits?

There is really not much or hardly any ginger in biscuits nowadays. They don't do the real stuff anymore, too expensive, I suppose.

Anyway, ginger does apparently help. Good idea with the homemade biscuits. You can leave out much of the sugar and the baking powder and use healthy ingredients, with ginger from the health food store, since I don't trust the processed or too old supermarket stuff either.
Going to try it with my dog.
(She rejects my favourite crystallized ginger - to my delight, 'cause they are all for me!)

corkimp

She goes to sleep but wakes up bout say half way through and moves round gets comfy and conks out again. She whimpers but stretches out again and sleeps. My fiance sits in the back keeping an eye on her. When we talk she stays somewhat calmer but she still gets sick. I have a hatchback focus - she is in the boot. The vet originally sugggested keeping the cover for the boot on - that I didn't like! So I tried ACP.
I might get something to block the bottom of the back window when she's in the car and see what happens. Any idea what to use? I saw a head thing to put on a dog - like one you can put on horses to stop flies at their eyes - but makes the dog look like it has a fly head! It restricts their view! lol. I gave her the herbal stuff like I mentioned before - she did get sick but slept for most of the journey. Last time she was in the car before and she got sick over 5 times - eventually I just kept going as it was saliva she brought up. Just want her to realise when we go in the car its not just for the vet or that she'll be ill. Mind you within a month she'll be neutered so might backfire what I've achieved! lol Cheers lads My puppy is beyond spoilt!

peasant

Just want her to realise when we go in the car its not just for the vet or that she'll be ill

Then start small ...up and down the driveway, followed by a big play session.
Then up and down the road ...followed by a big play session. Then a bit longer, then another bit ...and so on.

But it's probably too late now anyway.

I get the impression you think I'm a bad owner - just because I want my dog comfortable so she can enjoy a weekend of play and attention with my family's dogs

I didn't say it before ...you just read it into my previous post.

But yes ...after your last post I can't help but think that you don't do those two hours trips entirely and solely for HER benefit, do you? You just drag her along by hook or by crook and rose-tint the ordeal with the presence of other dogs at the end of the trip.


She's only 5 months old !!
Give her some time and ease her into travelling ...she'll get used to it.
(It may take that bit longer now though, after having been through several two hour puking ordeals already, some of them while only being semi-conscious)


I'm not saying that dogs should be absolutely mollycoddled, or that they should be accomodated and pandered to at all cost, every now and then there are a few things that they just have to tough out ...but you have to at least give them a fighting chance to get used to it first.

luckat

If she's five months old, her tummy isn't mature yet - same as some kids get travel sickness, then grow out of it.

But if you start her out with very short trips (with ginger bikkies or whatever works for her) then make the trips slightly longer each time, she'll gradually acclimatise.

And yes, a short trip followed by 'walkies!' is likely to have her attention more on the walk than on getting sick. A slight feeling of nausea will be wiped out by the anticipation of a walk about to happen almost immediately. But the trips must be *very* short at first, and only gradually get longer.

What you *don't* want is for her to start associating cars with getting sick. It would be wise to undo that association fast by training her tummy very gradually into being used to car journeys.

corkimp

luckat wrote:

And yes, a short trip followed by 'walkies!' is likely to have her attention more on the walk than on getting sick. A slight feeling of nausea will be wiped out by the anticipation of a walk about to happen almost immediately. But the trips must be *very* short at first, and only gradually get longer.

What you *don't* want is for her to start associating cars with getting sick. It would be wise to undo that association fast by training her tummy very gradually into being used to car journeys.

As for the up and down the driveway - it's only the length of the car! lol She isn't afraid of the car and I brought her to the vet last friday and she was good. Had stopped at a shop next to an ATm and basically praised her to bits for being a good girl - she was more interested in the person watching us! lol Got her back in the car and had great fun sniffing round the vets like no tomorrow. It was only on the way home she got sick - more bile then anything else. She seems worse on corners/roundabouts but at this stage I barely go round them at 3o km/hr at this stage.
I moved away from my family and have the grand total bar family of 2 friends - a couple who also moved down here to Waterford. I'm not working, have no life (didn't have it to begin with!), and yes - I miss my family. That such a bad thing? I know noone down here for her to socialise with their pets. Our neighbours I've tried talking to and barely get the "hi". My own families dogs are at least tough - can handle her jumping on them. My friends dog is a cavalier king charles and is pushed to the ground by our one, which my friend isn't happy about. So fine, I'm going up to Cork to see my family cos I miss them even if they drive me nuts but at least I know she's getting used to new surroundings and dogs and learning dog things. If i'm a bad owner for that - that's your decision. I'm only experiementing with the AP - it won't be "drug her everytime we go somewhere" - only as a last result. Thank you.

peasant

The idea behind getting her used to driving in the car is not to wait until she actually gets sick, but to end the "trip" before she does. You end the trip on a "high" without negative associations with the car.

As far as I can tell, up to now she has been sick every time she was in the car ...that's not good.

That's why I'm (and luckat is) saying: start with small "trips". The driveway is just fine. Get her into the car, drive backward and forward for a bit, get out, play. No sickness!
The next day get into the car, drive up and down the road, play ...no sickness.

Do that often enough and on a regular basis and she will associate getting into the car with the play that comes at the end and not the being sick that comes during the trip.
As luckat said, the "looking forward to play" feeling will begin to override the sickness.
As you make the "trip" just a little bit longer every day, you should begin to see results.

You seem to have some time on your hands, so why don't you start doing an "intensive course"?

Thre driveway "trips" today, three up the road "trips" tomorrow, three round the block "trips" the next day and so on.

EGAR

I am sorry but I am frankly appalled. All phenothiazines have side effects from long standing use (e.g., cardiovascular disturbance, extrapyramidal signs). Acetylpromazine (ACP) makes animals more reactive to noises and startle, and so is wholly inappropriate for use in for example noise phobic patients. Sedation is generally not recommended for air travel with dogs as adverse effects from sedatives are the leading cause of canine death during air travel.
Boxers and most Sighthounds react very badly to ACP. It is commonly used in premedication and should have NO place in behavioural correction, especially in such a young dog. I would change the vet ASAP!

corkimp

I only did a test with it. The vet gave it to me to see how she did. She was grand when she woke up - a little groggy but the minute she got out of the car she was full of beans! I don't want to use it long term, I have researched it a bit and know some of the consequences. I do know of it being used (mainly in USA but here too) to help dogs on bonfire night and when there are fire crackers and stuff so they won't freak out.
I will keep trying - hopefully she'll come round. Mind you she loves the extra attention and is playing on that! But it backfires when Dave is in the back and freaks out as she retches and gets sick next to him. He doesn't help handing me his lead and I have to to clean the dog, car and dispose of what she brought up while he sits complaining he feels sick too. I'll see what happens. Will let the vet know about the tabs and see if thereisanything to give her before a journey to settle her tummy.
Oh - while I remember - if I try stopping the car before she gets ill...I'll probably get blown off the road or/and hurled abuse in waterford city!! She is getting better so fingers crossed....will keep ye updated. Talks for all the help.