NTL MMDS transmission sites

Tony

Hi Guys, sorry if this has been asked before (search turned up nothing) but i am wondering how many sites NTL use in Dublin for their MMDS transmissions and roughly where they are located?

Thanks

cubix

I think they have a big one up in Naul that does Ashbourne/swords etc

watty

I suspect this is classified info or I would know already

L1011

I thought the MMDS National Grid was state defined and "public knowledge" in that its free information?

Sponge Bob

god no ! Comreg does not divulge anything as a matter of policy

NTL only have one MMDS transmitter in Galway ( Tonabrocky) despite having a county wide licence . Needless to say it never has and never will provide a service more than 30km from Galway ...way less than half the county is served.

They have another in Kiltimagh in Mayo .

L1011

Why does it have the map of all cellphone towers, then?

watty

Sponge Bob wrote:

god no ! Comreg does not divulge anything as a matter of policy

NTL only have one MMDS transmitter in Galway ( Tonabrocky) despite having a county wide licence . Needless to say it never has and never will provide a service more than 30km from Galway ...way less than half the county is served.

They have another in Kiltimagh in Mayo .

It's a funny licence the MMDS. Because it was originally sold in franchise areas and now the franchise system is gone, unlike a National 3G lincense, they don't have to provide it anywhere new.

Most of the MMDS is ex-Chorus which was never all upgraded to Digital and uses a different digital system to NTL's Digital only MMDS. UPC has a lot of work to do upgrading the present system.

I think it is a miracle we have a map of cell phone sites.

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote:

Why does it have the map of all cellphone towers, then?

Why are the 2.5ghz mmds towers not on the cellphone map then , there are entries for mobile sites in Tonabrocky ( under the Y in Galway on siteviewer) ) ????

Tonabrocky MMDS has far higher output than any mobile mast .

Nor is there a map of 3.5 and 10.5 and 26 ghz sites, Licence areas yes but TRANSMITTERS , No.

watty

I don't think we even have a comprehensive offical map of TV tansmitters. You can get stuff from RTE, but they don't list TV3.

Is it possible to get a list of which relays TV3 is on?

My belief is than more people do get TV3 via pay TV than via terrestrial. (Adding MMDS, cable and Satellite subscriptions).

Some licence areas don't have ANY transmitters. Also the operators are happy to be able to move a base station.

Even I havn't seen a map of 4G base stations

It's VERY hard to spot a mast on Google Earth unless the sun is low. Even then it could have anything on it.

Also MMDS, GSM, 3G or 4G could be on the local butcher's chimney stack, the aerials painted the same colour as his plaster. As long as various limits are not exceeded the local council (not Comref AFIAK) only needs to be informed. No planning permission needed. (Aerial must not stick more than 2m above roof)

Sponge Bob

watty wrote:

Even I havn't seen a map of 4G base stations

Would that be because the only '4g ' operator has not told Comreg where they are Watty ????

I am sure they will as soon as they launch .

Ulsterman 1690

There was a list of suggested locations for MMDS transmitters issued by COMREG's predecessors in 1989 but many operators chose different sites (Howth was the site originally suggested in Dublin, but Naul was the site eventually chosen)

Ive never seen a full list of TX locations collated in one place only the odd scrap of info here and there. The TX locations are not exactly a state secret (some of them are actually quite well known) but niether are they actually published as a list from what I can see. There was a couple of attacks on MMDS sites in the early 1990's so maybe they want to keep the info low key for that reason.

UPC has a lot of work to do upgrading the present system.

Will they actually bother I wonder ? As far as I know the majority of Analouge MMDS cells never made a penny profit and those cells that have gone digital are experiencing a lot of problems (technical and financial) from what I hear.

John1000

There's a list and a nice map here : -
http://www.odtr.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0442.pdf

I'm not sure how accurate or up to date it is...

watty

Details of Primary Cells
NATIONALCELL CELL GRID
NO.	NAME		REFERENCE	RANGE
1	Buncrana	C352	290	20
2	Dunglow		B736	075	15
3	Dunkineely	G727	714	15
4	Ballycroy	F815	117	20
5	Foxford		G282	027	20
6	Sligo		G713	299	15
7	Stradone	H582	049	15
8	Cavanagarvan	H634	266	10
9	Dundalk		J143	076	20
10	Curraghroe	M953	746	30
11	Mullingar	N476	548	15
12	Navan		N924	691	20
13	Galway		M260	272	30
14	Cloghan		N089	187	20
15	Kildare		N714	168	20
16	Howth		O283	377	20
17	Wicklow		T286	931	15
18	Ballybunnion	Q910	425	20
19	Limerick	R523	636	30
20	Boggan		S327	570	30
21	Nurney		S749	653	15
22	Gorey		T180	626	10
23	Kilcotty	T070	385	15
23a	Ballycanew	T093	498	20
24	Farranfore	Q952	004	15
25	Mallow		W623	980	20
26	Villierstown	X110	940	15
27	Cheekpoint	S681	128	20
28	Drinagh		W243	448	15
29	Cork	Airport	W684	663	20
Note: (i) National Grid References quoted are for centres of cells.
(ii) Range quoted is in miles.

UPC are upgrading. Fibre to feed cable segments to as to improve or provide Broadband and MMDS probably 100% Digital before Christmas 2007.

The Cush

We may eventually get this information not from ComReg but the UKs Ofcom.

Ofcom is currently conducting a consultation on the Award of available spectrum: 2500-2690 MHz,... which requires coordination with Irelands MMDS frequencies.

The consultation document states on page 46

5.17 Within the Republic of Ireland the band is used by the Multimedia Distribution Service (MMDS).
...
The separate technical report published alongside this consultation provides an analysis of the interference potential into the United Kingdom from the MMDS service. However, it should be noted that this is very much a worst case analysis based on the powers and antenna heights and locations derived from the Irish MMDS planning guidelines document. In order for Ofcom to conduct a more realistic interference assessment, we have asked the Irish regulator, ComReg, to request detailed deployment information from the MMDS operators. Ofcom plans to publish an updated interference assessment when the further information is available.

And so from the document we see Ofcom have requested from ComReg detailed deployment information and will publish the information when available.

In the attached Technical Study, Annex 5, the MMDS locations are listed as follows

[B][SIZE="2"]MMDS transmitter locations in the Republic of Ireland[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Location         Antenna height(m)  ERP(dBW)    EIRP(Watts)[/B]
[I]Buncrana               81             28           631
Dungloe                45             25           316
Dunkineeley            45             25           316
Sligo                  45             25           316
Curragrhoe            182             31         1,259
Stadone                45             25           316
Cavanagarvan           20             22           158
Dundalk                81             28           631
Cork Airport           81             28           631
Drinagh                 5             25           316
Cheekpoint             81             28           631
Villierstown           45             25           316
Mallow                 81             28           631
Farranfore             45             25           316
Ballycanew             81             28           631
Kilcotty               45             25           316
Gorey                  20             22           158
Boggan                182             31         1,259
Limerick              182             31         1,259
Ballybunnion           81             28           631
Wicklow                45             25           316[/I]

steveon

Here is a map of some of the Chorus MMDS sites, it is a few years old however but they are all still active as far as I'm aware but it doesn't include deflectors and all sites are not Digital with the Analog currently been switched off.

John1000

steveon wrote:

Here is a map of some of the Chorus MMDS sites, it is a few years old however but they are all still active as far as I'm aware but it doesn't include deflectors and all sites are not Digital with the Analog currently been switched off.

I think the deflecters are called beam benders. Does anyone know if they are just passive reflecters or do they retransmit the signal.

steveon

The Beam-Benders redistribute the signal, however if the signal arriving to it is in a vertical Polarization it is usually beamed out Horizontally so as to not interfere with the original signal. There are hundreds of Beam-Benders all over the country. I have the maps for most in the Limerick Clare and Tipperary areas but most are on top of private residences. As a result usually the owners of the properties are given free connections.

Antenna

serving Co. Cork the main MMDS sites are

Farmers Cross - Horizontal (on list as "Cork airport" - which is about a mile west)
Carronadavderg - Horizontal (near Clashmore in west waterford, serves much of East Cork too)
Nowen Hill - Horizontal (west Cork)
Carron in the Ballyhoura mountains - Vertical (north Cork)

these were the 4 main sites of 'Cork Multichannel' (which became part of what is now Chorus)

The 'MMDS transmitter locations in the Republic of Ireland' list seems to be original 'suggested' sites. For example "Villierstown" (in West Waterford) is a good few miles from Carronadavderg etc

Sponge Bob

the NTL sites are missing from the Ofcom List , eg Tonabrocky in Galway. Looks like Chorus only .

Galway

NTL have one on Croaghmoyle mountain nr Castlebar and one on Mount Mary on the Gal-Ros border

watty

I think the beambenders are primative repeaters.

NTL don't have anything like as much MMDS. Maybe 1/5th? Hence they were able to upgrade all of it to digital. Chorus didn't have the money.

MisterAnarchy

Interesting info on this thread.
Some of the transmitter locations look a bit off,I'm sure Chorus have a big transmitter near Doneraile,Co.Cork
Is it 64QAM that Chorus MMDS uses ?

Ulsterman 1690

The locations and gridreferences on Wattys list were SUGGESTIONS by the DoC (COMRES predecessors) in 1988-89

Many of the sites actually chosen for MMDS transmission were somewhat different.

I think the beambenders are primative repeaters.

More or less.

Beambenders (The term is a trademark of California Amplifier BTW) relay the MMDS signals on the same frequency but opposite polorisation.

Basically they are a couple of antennas, a wideband amplifier, some filtering and some aincent voodo spells to prevent them going into oscillation and/or inadverently relaying non MMDS stuff

The UHF equivalent is known as an "active deflector". In Ireland the term "deflector" is used (even by COMREG) to describe all UHF relays of UK channels whether on-channel or not but strictly speaking it should be only used for on channel relays

lucernarian

Hah, MMDS in Dundalk, with plenty of UK overspill?? Chorus saw the obvious and put it on Mt Oriel where most of Drogheda could pick it up. There's feck all masts in Dundalk using the beambender in the centre of the town.

I'm pretty sure there's a beambender in Swords, beside a primary school...

I know the comreg document was made in 2004, but that's a bit strange. I can't remember seeing any MMDS tower in Navan. There's no mention of the huge MMDS tower in The Naul. Or of Mt. Oriel either.

watty

MMDS
NTL = DVB-c, Chorus = DVB-t

Bothe systems can use a range of QAM. Real Cable can use higher QAM than On Air transmissions.

extraice

any one know the MMDS Galway frequency from ntl please
thanks

Sponge Bob

2600 - 2690