Seeking retention / amendment to planning permission

onekeano

Planning application was submitted by myself for a 2 storey extension to my home
One person, an immediate neighbour, made an observation against the proposed extension. He omitted to mention that he already had a 2 storey extension.
Permission was granted by DCC Inspector with no changes:D
Same neighbour appealed to An Bord Pleanala on same issues covered in his earlier observation
An Bord Pleanala's Inspector stated neighbours appeal was "misleading" and the appeal should be refused with 1 condition - a window in the attic gable wall should be reduced in scale to be 1m in height
Before the Boards decision was made the same neighbour approached and succeeded in getting a Minister to make representations on his behalf.
When the decision was made by the board it ignored the recommendation of its own Inspector[/B][/B][/B] :eek: and the DCC Inspector and granted permission with a hipped roof (a very significant change to the overall plan and substantially taking away from the finished product. I can only assume that this was related to the Inspectors recommendation to reduce the size of the window in the attic gable wall.
I was wondering if I could get retention if I built in the original style and took out the window completely thereby totally eliminating any argument about possible overlooking?
[/LIST]

Any advice / views would be much appreiciated.

thanks
Roy

muffler

First things first. I think its pure speculation on your part with reference to your neighbour getting a government minister to make representations - can you tell us how you know this to be fact.

An Bord Pleanala (ABP) are completely independent and would not be influenced by any political representations which I doubt they ever received and I doubt if any minister would put himself in that position. It is normal enough for ABP to overrule their inspector. I have seen this on many occasions.

I would strongly recommend that you stick to the permission granted by ABP. Theres an old saying that springs to mind about situations like this - "bad idea to piss on the dog when you still have your hand in its mouth". I think you are asking for trouble if you do otherwise.

Finally, seeing as you have only 4 posts and you got me in a good mood, I replied to your post instead of deleting it and giving you a red card. We dont advocate the flaunting of the planning regulations on this forum.

onekeano

muffler wrote:

First things first. I think its pure speculation on your part with reference to your neighbour getting a government minister to make representations - can you tell us how you know this to be fact.

QUOTE]

The reason I know the Minister made representations is that when I called ABP to enquire about the decision the said that "it was only made yesterday and we cannot tell you today because we have to write to the other parties at the same time". I enquired who the other parties were an they stated my neighbour was one and Minister Ahern was the other one.

I went to the Ministers clinic a couple of days later a asked him about this and he confirmed he had made representations on behalf of my neighbour. When I pressed him for details on this he stated "I have no idea what was in it - sure I didn't even write it myself". These are facts - not speculation....in fact the Minister himself told me that Public representatives do this all the time which seems to differ from your experience?

Roy

muffler

Thats fair enough. I cant say that I have really come across that before and for the life of me I cant see what any politician would hope to achieve by writing to ABP. The board will only consider written responses and documents from all parties that have a vested interest in the appeal. Anyhow thats a different days work.

onekeano

muffler wrote:

I cant see what any politician would hope to achieve by writing to ABP.

Call me cynical but the Ministers representations were made the week of the general election :rolleyes:

Roy

muffler

That would have more to with trying to get a vote from your neighbour than asking the impossible from ABP.

As I said ABP will only consider submissions from the parties involved in the appeal whether they be first second or third parties. The ministers letter or letters would not be considered as he is not a party to the appeal. He could however ask the board to deal with the appeal as a matter of urgency but that would be the limit of his involvement

kkelliher

roy

I think the best thing to do and to avoid any future cost (renention costs alot more than applying for planning) you should go back in for planning again and ammend it to suit everyone. Take out the window leave the roof as it is and apply again. this should eleminate the only problem that seems to exist. You could even show your neighbour the drawing and maybe they might not appeal again

Keith

manchild

I have a small pvc concervatory 12 SQ mts app. To the side of my house. I wasent aware i needed planning permission for this. If I am refused retention can they make me take it down as it is in place now over 10 years. I am guessing someone has made a complaint as I dont think the planners go around looking for these things.

Some advise needed

muffler

If its there 10 years then why would you want to apply for retention?

manchild

Because the planning authority sent me a letter telling me i needed planning. I sent them a letter telling them I was unaware I had needed planning for this at the time and also it was built 10 years ago. I asked how best I could regulate matters and there reply was to apply for retention. So i am worried now if i get a refusal and what there actions might be. Can they make me take it down. I am guessing a neighbour who cannot even see the concervatory from her house has put them on to me as we had a disagreement resently.

So whats the story as it has been in place so long. I will of course apply for retention but fear the consequences of a refusal.

pseudo-tech

manchild wrote: »

Because the planning authority sent me a letter telling me i needed planning. I sent them a letter telling them I was unaware I had needed planning for this at the time and also it was built 10 years ago. I asked how best I could regulate matters and there reply was to apply for retention. So i am worried now if i get a refusal and what there actions might be. Can they make me take it down. I am guessing a neighbour who cannot even see the concervatory from her house has put them on to me as we had a disagreement resently.

So whats the story as it has been in place so long. I will of course apply for retention but fear the consequences of a refusal.

If you can prove the extension is over 10 years old, you don't technically require planning permission. However, it could restrict any future development of your dwelling until your planning situation is regularised.

It could also be exempt due to its relatively small size. Is it located to the rear of the property? Do you havea reasonable sized back garden etc. etc. Call in to the Local Authority and ask the questions personally. You may not need to apply for planning permission.

manchild

No unfortunately my little conservatory is at the side of house. i am guessing a bad neighbor put the planners in my way. So I got a letter from them last week telling me i had an unauthorized construction.

I replied and there advice is to apply for retention. This i am doing but would like to know what can they do to me if they refuse to grant this permission.

Can they make me take down the conservatory after such a long time ???

muffler

No one can preempt what decision a planning authority will come to but they will be mindful of the fact that the extension has been there some considerable time. You should point this out in a covering letter with your application by informing then that you are making the application only to regularise the matter. Do indicate in the letter that you can provide evidence of it being constructed 10 years ago. Generally speaking applications of this nature are not normally a problem.

Now (wearing my mods hat) we dont need to know about your neighbour in every post. It isn't relevant to the topic.

sinnerboy

manchild wrote: »

No unfortunately my little conservatory is at the side of house.

Was never exempt so

manchild wrote: »

So I got a letter from them last week telling me i had an unauthorized construction.

This is correct . But the time limit for enforcement action is 7 years . Let them formally know you know this

manchild wrote: »

I replied and there advice is to apply for retention. This i am doing but would like to know what can they do to me if they refuse to grant this permission.

Make you tear it down

manchild wrote: »

Can they make me take down the conservatory after such a long time ???

No . Unless you now apply to retain it - and permission is not granted

manchild

So this is my dilemma

If i do nothing they cannot make me take it down ?.

If I apply for retention and they refuse I am in trouble ?

Perhaps i should write again to them stating it is up over 7 years and i do not require to seek retention

sinnerboy

Yes but - if you sell or re mortgage - you may find the process collapses over this issue .

manchild

Thanks for all the help.

Will probably take a gamble and go for retention will let you know how it goes

No6

I notice from your original post Manchild you seem to believe that it was one of your neighbours who have reported you, I have heard in some councils due to the lack of any new planning applications coming in the a lot of planners are moving to enforcement and going around inspecting old applications looking for things that require retention applications so that they can get the application numbers up and therefore keep their jobs, so dont loos the head with the neighbours you may just be unlucky, apply for retention, you should get it without too much difficulty.

sinnerboy

+1 .
These civil servants can and are fabricating workload like this .

Worst example recently was a DLRCC enforcement officer taking an action against a "Go Leinster" poster during the H Cup build up ....

No6

sinnerboy wrote: »

+1 .
These civil servants can and are fabricating workload like this .

Worst example recently was a DLRCC enforcement officer taking an action against a "Go Leinster" poster during the H Cup build up ....

The devil makes work for idle hands to do!!!:D

manchild

I am told that conservatories built to the side of a house can be exempt under certain conditions. Maybe this is prior to the 2001 act. Some of these conditions are as follows.

That the structure is behind the building line of the house. I assume this means back from the front wall of house.

That the conservatory is attached to an outside door of the house thus is not part of the house. Is regarded as another building like a garage.

Also the size is a factor. In my case 12 Sq mts so not an issue.

Can anyone advise me regarding this? It appears even the planners are confused re this.

muffler

There was provision made in the older regs for sheds and boiler houses to the side of a house to be exempt but not conservatories.

sydthebeat

manchild wrote: »

I am told that conservatories built to the side of a house can be exempt under certain conditions. Maybe this is prior to the 2001 act. Some of these conditions are as follows.

That the structure is behind the building line of the house. I assume this means back from the front wall of house.

That the conservatory is attached to an outside door of the house thus is not part of the house. Is regarded as another building like a garage.

Also the size is a factor. In my case 12 Sq mts so not an issue.

Can anyone advise me regarding this? It appears even the planners are confused re this.

in order for an extension to be considered exempt, it MUST be located BEHIND the dwelling.

As your is to the side it requires planning permission. The regs are very clear on this.

sinnerboy

sydthebeat wrote: »

As your is to the side it requires planning permission. The regs are very clear on this.

Agreed

Penn

While those conditions are not applicable to you OP, I would mention them in your application for retention if you decide to apply for it. Say it is back from the building line, how it is only 12m² and how its attached to an outside door. While the conditions don't apply to your conservatory, they are good reasons why retention should be granted

sydthebeat

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

While those conditions are not applicable to you OP, I would mention them in your application for retention if you decide to apply for it. Say it is back from the building line, how it is only 12m² and how its attached to an outside door. While the conditions don't apply to your conservatory, they are good reasons why retention should be granted

all of that would be obvious from the planning drawings that would need to be submitted.... wouldnt it..?... is there any need to list it in a letter?