Would you pay tribute to an alleged killer?

slumped

Hi

I am curious about this thread and what people think of it outside the world of Pro Wrestling: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055112660

This guy (Chris Benoit) is alleged to have killed his wife and kids, yet 'tributes' are being paid to this guy.

Obviously he is innocent until proven etc. but would you pay tribute to a guy in this situation?

I think it's weird that people feel compelled to pay tribute to a guy who could turn out to have killed his family.

Slumped

Kingp35

No way would I pay tribute to him. I was going to post something to that effect on the thread but I'm sure I would have been accused of trolling.

AlmightyCushion

Wait a minute this guy killed his family and people are paying tribute to him. It shows you what fúcking idiots watch that sh!t.

Beruthiel

In fairness to them, I do not believe the details surrounding the deaths had been reveiled when the thread started.
That guy was obviously one sick puppy.

Bounty Hunter

nobody is speculating on the reasons for his death those who did caused the first thread on the subject to be closed. there were rumours of Murder/Suicide (these rumours didnt say in general who commited the act) but there were also rumours of an infectious disease (as he was supposed to have called in claiming he was travelling home to be with his family as they were spitting up blood and thus missed the PPV on sunday). By all reports he was "Mr nice guy" whom the entire locker room looked up to as a person, nobody who knows the guy would believe he would be capable of such an act (and no i dont mean physically capable) therefore neither do the fans. That is why they pay respects to him cos the notion of his responsibility is not entering their heads, however they have lost one of the best Wrestlers there ever has been.

wether right or wrong myself included posted first not knowing the alleged circumstances

personally however i think its terrible that stories that state "are going to prove a little bizarre when released to the public" i.e they have not been release to the public can then follow with "Investigators believe Benoit, (pronounced ben-WAH) killed his wife and son over the weekend and then himself sometime Monday" can be printed.

Dyr

Obviously "allegedly" is a magic invisible word. :rolleyes:

Dragan

Right now no one knows what is going on. There is no official stance or results going around, only internet rumours and bull****. The simple fact is that Chris, his wife Nancy and his seven year old son Daniel were found dead in their home. All people know right now is that a great entertaining and by all accounts an absolute gentleman has been lost as has some of his family.

Personally I am a massive fan of Chris and will save any finger pointing until we find out what actually happened. Until then I have simply offered my condolensces to his family and friends though channels I know will reach them, as I am sure have many others.

Sure, if the rumours turn out to be true then it will chance my opinion of him as a person but it won't stop me feeling sad for the family and friends of his that are going through what they are going through right now.

Innocent until proven guilty folks.

Steve_o

Bambi wrote:

Obviously "allegedly" is a magic invisible word. :rolleyes:

Agreed

I think this thread is jumping the gun a bit,nothing has been proven, Until it is I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Spud83

I think most people believe in innocent until proven guilty, but paying tribute to someone currently under investigation for such a crime is hard to justify IMO.

Sure he was a great wrestler and will be missed but I think I will withhold my respects until all the facts come out.

norbert64

can't believe you're serious with this thread

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dunno.

Even if it was proven he murdered his family I'd probably pay tribute to the things he done in his profession.

Although I believe WWE and all that American wrestling crap is just alot of Athletes acting the clown, some people believe in it :rolleyes: and its/he's brought them great memories.

Degsy

Nelson Mandela allegedly killed a few people and look at the way people suck up to him.

In fact he was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a shopping centre full of innocent women and children

Steve_o

alanmurphy83 wrote:

I think most people believe in innocent until proven guilty, but paying tribute to someone currently under investigation for such a crime is hard to justify IMO.

Sure he was a great wrestler and will be missed but I think I will withhold my respects until all the facts come out.

I wasn't trying to justify it, i was merely saying that if people did want to pay tribute, they can because there's no proof that he did commit any crime.

Now on the flip side, if he is found to have committed murder then paying tribute to him wouldn't really be appropriate.

Spud83

norbert64 wrote:

can't believe you're serious with this thread

Why. I think it is a valid question. Been on a lot of forums today and its is a serious argument on all of them. Is it right to pay respects to someone under investigation for such a crime?

NOTE: I said under investigation

Spud83

Steve_o wrote:

Now on the flip side, if he is found to have committed murder then paying tribute to him wouldn't really be appropriate.

Thats is why I said I will withould my tributes until all the facts are out. If he is found to be guilty of this crime and you have previosly paid respect to him it seems just as inappropriate to me.

slumped

perhaps we should concentrate on a general scenario

If Mr. A (super famous person) was alleged to have committed multiple murders and then killed himself - would you pay tribute to him as a sports star - or would the allegations taint his reputation in anyway?

Plissken1

I think that makes it 11 Professional Wrestlers now that have died before the age of 40, would it have anything to do with steriod abuse ?

ShowUsYourXbox

Wrestling fans are usually not the smartest people in the world, so im not suprised.

I'm not painting all of them with the same brush, just alot of them.

Fozzy

The full details have not been released, but I do not believe a man's life should be judged on one moment of madness/sickness/stupidity/weakness or accident. Chris Benoit as I know him was an amazingly talented man who was extremely genuine and went out of his way to help many people. I find it impossible to believe that he is a cold-blooded killer, rather someone who did something very wrong, if the reports turn out to be true

Speculating on steroids is just ridiculous at this time. Absolutely no correlation to anything

AlmightyCushion

slumped wrote:

perhaps we should concentrate on a general scenario

If Mr. A (super famous person) was alleged to have committed multiple murders and then killed himself - would you pay tribute to him as a sports star - or would the allegations taint his reputation in anyway?

This is probably the best way to deal with it as some peoples view may be distorted through their interest in wrestling.

I think it is wrong to pay tribute to a person if they are under investigation for such a crime regardless of if they were famous or not.

Double C

As has been said, no one yet knows the full details of what happened. So fat I have heard 3 theories, first that they died of carbon monoxide poisoning, secondly, that the wife killed the son and Benoit then killed the wife, and third, that Benoit killed both. Now from what I heard last night on the tribute show for him, he was described by friends as the ultimate family man, one wrestler said he saw Benoit warming up for a match and his son was with him doing the same stretches and all that. That wrestler commented on how lucky he thought Benoit was. This makes it very difficult to believe what is being said.

Now going solely on interviews I've seen with him, he seemed a really genuine, loving man. He will also go down as one of the hardest working wrestlers ever. I know a lot of people here don't watch wrestling and wouldn't quite understand the extent of what this means, but for those who do, Benoit will be remembered for being one of the best ever.

Obviously if it is proven that he killed his family his legacy will be tarnished, but for now, there are a lot of wrestling fans very upset at the loss of a legend, and a hero, so what's wrong with paying respect?

RIP the Benoit family.

Vince135792003

ShowUsYourXbox wrote:

Wrestling fans are usually not the smartest people in the world, so im not suprised.

I think your being a little unfair. I think wrestling fans are just stunned.

The wrestling business is dirty and rotten in many ways.

Chris Benoit, the wrestler in question, was a guy you could hold up as a model of why wrestling can be positive and you'd say to your friends "This is why I watch wrestling".

And thats why this is so stunning. He was a hero of mine. I admired everything about the guy and my mind is total mush.

On the topic in question, I don't know if today is the day when there should be a Chris Benoit wrestling appreciation thread. In saying that, I keep flipping and flopping on the subject.

Double C

ShowUsYourXbox wrote:

Wrestling fans are usually not the smartest people in the world, so im not suprised.

I'm not painting all of them with the same brush, just alot of them.

Bet most of them are smarter than you.

heyjude

Dragan wrote:

Right now no one knows what is going on. There is no official stance or results going around, only internet rumours and bull****.

Don't know about it only being internet rumours and bull***, it is true that they haven't conclusively declared it a murder suicide but ABC News, who are a pretty authoritative source reported that:

"WWE wrestler Chris Benoit, his wife and 7-year-old son were found dead Monday, and police said they were investigating the deaths as a murder-suicide.

Authorites tell ABC News the case was being treated as a murder-suicide, but said that couldn't be confirmed until evidence was examined by a crime lab."

Dragan wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty folks.

Well if you apply this universally then okay, but when another famous sportstar OJ Simpson was reported as having killed his ex-wife and her boyfriend, I don't recall many people showing restraint in condemning him as a killer, even after he was found 'Not Guilty' in the Criminal case. (The only time OJ was found guilty was in a Civil Case, where the level of proof required is much lower). Not defending OJ, just saying that presumptions of innocence shouldn't depend on whether the accused is likeable or not, famous or not, wealthy or not.

If Benoit did kill his wife and child, he shouldn't be looked upon any less severely than any other multiple murderer, just because of his achievements in the wrestling ring. Yet, some fans elsewhere don't want to dwell on or even consider the fact that this tragedy may be of Chris Benoits' own making.

Sympathy for his wife and child, certainly yes, sympathy for the person who may have killed them, well that will have to wait a while till the facts are established.

As for the idea that his past achievements may merit some praise or admiration, even if he is guilty of murder, you don't see many column inches in newspapers in other cases devoted to how this murderer or that was really a nice guy in his previous life. Murder, especially of a child is so heinous a crime, that it pretty much obliterates everything else a person may have done beforehand.

Spud83

Can the wrestling talk be kept on the pro wrestling forums. I belive the OP was only sparked by the current events and the reaction to them but the discussion should be kept general and not on this specific case.

slumped

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Can the wrestling talk be kept on the pro wrestling forums. I belive the OP was only sparked by the current events and the reaction to them but the discussion should be kept general and not on this specific case.

The truth.

Generally speaking - would you pay glowing tributes to someone who allegedly killed their family? Would innocence until proven guilty matter or is general rumour enough to stop you?

S

Steve_o

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Thats is why I said I will withould my tributes until all the facts are out. If he is found to be guilty of this crime and you have previosly paid respect to him it seems just as inappropriate to me.

I'm not trying to justify anything here, just looking at it as objectively as i can, but if you paid tribute to someone before they're proven guilty of a crime i don't think its all that inappropriate.

Personally i'm the same as you Alan, i'm holding my tongue on the tributes until after the investigation.

MikeHoncho

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Can the wrestling talk be kept on the pro wrestling forums. I belive the OP was only sparked by the current events and the reaction to them but the discussion should be kept general and not on this specific case.

The moderators on the wrestling forum are not allowing for balanced discussion on the topic and are locking threads which arent full of glowing tributes.

Dragan

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Can the wrestling talk be kept on the pro wrestling forums. I belive the OP was only sparked by the current events and the reaction to them but the discussion should be kept general and not on this specific case.

I was under the impression it was about this specifically as he linked to the thread and the relevant story?

Spud83

Dragan wrote:

I was under the impression it was about this specifically as he linked to the thread and the relevant story?

True but the question that was asked was...

Would you pay tribute to a guy in this situation?

The links were provided as a back ground to why the thread was started!!!

Spud83

MikeHoncho wrote:

The moderators on the wrestling forum are not allowing for balanced discussion on the topic and are locking threads which arent full of glowing tributes.

Well then take it up with the mods of that thread instead of trying to hyjack other threads.

Mossy Monk

ShowUsYourXbox wrote:

Wrestling fans are usually not the smartest people in the world, so im not suprised.

I'm not painting all of them with the same brush, just alot of them.

Most pointless post I have seen all day :rolleyes:.

Dragan

Plissken1 wrote:

I think that makes it 11 Professional Wrestlers now that have died before the age of 40, would it have anything to do with steriod abuse ?

Thats a relatively ridiculous tangent to go off on.

MikeHoncho

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Well then take it up with the mods of that thread instead of trying to hyjack other threads.

I already have done. I was just sheding some light on the reason why people might have decided to post here.

dryle

heyjude wrote:

Don't know about it only being internet rumours and bull***, it is true that they haven't conclusively declared it a murder suicide but ABC News, who are a pretty authoritative source reported that:

"WWE wrestler Chris Benoit, his wife and 7-year-old son were found dead Monday, and police said they were investigating the deaths as a murder-suicide.

Authorites tell ABC News the case was being treated as a murder-suicide, but said that couldn't be confirmed until evidence was examined by a crime lab."

seemingly other sites in the states are quoting double murder/suicide, she wanted to leave him and he strangled them both then hung himself.

Binomate

He was a Wrestler. If that's not reason enough to spit on his grave, I don't know what is.

Double C

Any source for that^?

MikeHoncho

Binomate wrote:

He was a Wrestler. If that's not reason enough to spit on his grave, I don't know what is.

Really constructive. It mightent have floated your boat but that man was a hero to a lot of people. He was debatably one of the greatest people to ever partcipate in his chosen profesion and he does not deserve disrespect like that. I think im in the anger stage of grieving at the moment so dont come back in to this topic if you have nothing constructive to say as I will probably end up with a ban.

WAGA, a FOX-owned and operated television station in Atlanta, reported that investigators believe Benoit killed his wife and 7-year-old son over the weekend, then himself on Monday.

Taken from WWE's own website.. I severely doubt they'd be so quick as to pour muck on one of their "superstars" names, especially in death.

Link here

Double C

Mossy Monk wrote:

Most pointless post I have seen all day :rolleyes:.

Wait til you see Binomate's post

Spud83

This whole thread has turned pointless at this stage. No constructive posts expect people putting up rumours because the have either been banned for other threads relating to this matter, or have caused the other threads to be locked with there pointless posts.

slumped

any chance this could move back ON TOPIC?

Binomate

MikeHoncho wrote:

Really constructive. It mightent have floated your boat but that man was a hero to a lot of people. He was debatably one of the greatest people to ever partcipate in his chosen profesion and he does not deserve disrespect like that. I think im in the anger stage of grieving at the moment so dont come back in to this topic if you have nothing constructive to say as I will probably end up with a ban.

Don't worry about it. He's probably not even dead. Everyone knows Wrestling is fake anyway. This is probably just another twist in the story line.

Spud83

slumped wrote:

any chance this could move back ON TOPIC?

Doesn't look like it.

stipey

MikeHoncho wrote:

I think im in the anger stage of grieving at the moment

Wow! Grieving?

Everybody has heroes/idols. By their very nature they come from fields/disciplines that interest us. They give us our goals and aspirations - not that we have to achieve exactly the same as they did, or in the same manner. Rather they are a yard stick we can measure ourselves against.

I have my own heroes, not from the world of wrestling for what its worth. Some of them have passed on - some quiet young. I don't think I have ever grieved for them - I've certainly never gone through the numerous stages of grieving. I'm sure I have expressed dismay at their passing, perhaps sympathy for their family and wondered what might have been, what else they could have brought to their chosen area. Grieving seems a little on the strong side - almost like those teenage girls (and guys) who felt they had no reason to go on when Take That split up.

Double C

Ok Binomate, you don't like wrestling, we get the idea.

Your right though, wrestling is fake. There are characters and there are the real people behind the characters. I see no problem paying respect to the character of Chris Benoit, based solely on his accomplishments over the last 20 years in the industry.
It is hard to have any real sympathy though for the real man who "apparently" killed his family.

Fozzy

stipey wrote:

Wow! Grieving?

I've found that wrestlers are much more accessible and open than other entertainers or sportspeople. You get the sense that you do actually know them, and if you watched the tributes that his friends and colleagues paid last night, you really do feel like he was a friend. Personally, it was guys like Chris that made me a wrestling fan, which is a big part of who I am. So I can understand completely any fans who are grieving

2funki4wheelz

alanmurphy83 it's a pity the thread got a bit lost.

I do think it's interesting to see a hero/good guy figure who is now a 'potential' murderer. It adds an angle that we don't normally see on alleged/convicted murders.

Talking generally, if the first thing you hear about someone is that there a murderer, I don't think it really matters what you hear after that, they are tainted in your mind.

However, if you already had evidence they were a good person, it's hard to condemn them totally and makes you think that anyone coulld potentially do this - which is very very scary.

Specifically for Benoit, I think the fans expected a tribute immediately and there wasn't a lot of info to hand at the time anyway.

I can only compare it to speeches at a funeral. There's been a few cases of parents killing of their spouses/kids in the news lately and committing suicide and I'm sure someone remembered the good things they did and paid tribute to them in their own way. Just imagine it was your brother or son or whatever.

I agree with Double C - pay tribute to the character, that makes it simple.

AlmightyCushion

MikeHoncho wrote:

Really constructive. It mightent have floated your boat but that man was a hero to a lot of people. He was debatably one of the greatest people to ever partcipate in his chosen profesion and he does not deserve disrespect like that.

If he killed his wife and child he does.

thelordofcheese

Binomate wrote:

Don't worry about it. He's probably not even dead. Everyone knows Wrestling is fake anyway. This is probably just another twist in the story line.

Ok, i know it's in poor taste, but i laughed at that.
Just a little mind you.

Hmm, i guess i'd hold off paying tributes to someone whos death was as suspicious as that of Mr. Benoit, but i certainly wouldn't be screaming that he was evil incarnate.

Would it be possible for people to STFU long enough for some sembelance of the truth to emerge, or are well all really such a shower of fickle mush-heads we'll have moved on to the next "news" story by the time that happens.

Steak

stipey wrote:

Wow! Grieving?

Everybody has heroes/idols. By their very nature they come from fields/disciplines that interest us. They give us our goals and aspirations - not that we have to achieve exactly the same as they did, or in the same manner. Rather they are a yard stick we can measure ourselves against.

I have my own heroes, not from the world of wrestling for what its worth. Some of them have passed on - some quiet young. I don't think I have ever grieved for them - I've certainly never gone through the numerous stages of grieving. I'm sure I have expressed dismay at their passing, perhaps sympathy for their family and wondered what might have been, what else they could have brought to their chosen area. Grieving seems a little on the strong side - almost like those teenage girls (and guys) who felt they had no reason to go on when Take That split up.

couldn't have put it better myself.