Interesting Hand.

BigCityBanker

2nd hand of the tournament. Blinds 25/50, Stack 10k.

Folded to you in the CO and you make it 200 with AK. The SB makes it 600 to go. You call.

Flop K 6 2r.

SB leads for 600, you make it 1900, he makes it 4200...

you?

I think his flop lead is one of two things?
- he wants you to come over the top cos he has a monster?
- he wants to be able to 3 bet you and still have enough left to fold after he has missed.

bops

what is villain like??

looks like a fold to me

[i assumed live - but if it's online i push & move on!]

BigCityBanker

no reads, live game. this is just the 2nd hand. Its a 5k buyin WSOP event.

Washout

I think at best your looking at a split pot.

without any reads though. I fold and move on

phantom_lord

what's the point of the flop reraise?

bops

phantom_lord wrote:

what's the point of the flop reraise?

lol nice post - poker is really simple when you think about it...

MacStacked

I doubt a set ever plays this strong.

A hyper aggressive player trying to set out his stall that his blinds will not come easy?

But is he really doing this and putting in half his stack..Im not sure.

Second hand of the tournament with no reads, you cant go to war with tptk. Fold.

I would just call the flop.

NickyOD

I really really hate the raise on the flop also.

As played I fold becuase I think he either has a badly played AK, or AA but what you said about the size of his 3 bet is also very possible.

Hectorjelly

lol @ the flop raise

Captain Tom

Hectorjelly wrote:

lol @ the flop raise

you'll probably lol even harder when you find out who actually played this hand.

BigCityBanker

phantom_lord wrote:

what's the point of the flop reraise?

It is clearly for information? Why else?

I dont like the flop RR myself but thats how the hand played out.

BigCityBanker

Captain Tom wrote:

you'll probably lol even harder when you find out who actually played this hand.

ssshhhhh - lets keep them in suspense for another hour or two..

Hawk Eye

BigCityBanker wrote:

I think his flop lead is one of two things?
- he wants you to come over the top cos he has a monster?
- he wants to be able to 3 bet you and still have enough left to fold after he has missed.

Isn't his flop lead just a standard c-bet into a great flop for a reraised pot.
Im not sure what you mean by your 2nd point.

Hawk Eye

And raising the flop there is really bad.

BigCityBanker

Hawk Eye wrote:

Im not sure what you mean by your 2nd point.

Id have thought it to be pretty easy to understand myself.

Pot - 1200

Option A - he bets 600, you construe that to be a weak lead and raise to 1900, he makes it 4200 with air expecting you to fold. You push he can fold and still have lots of play.

Option B - he bets 1200, you make it 3700, he cant really expect to bluff you off the pot here and folds.

Hawk Eye

Ok I thought you meant "fold after he has missed" was a reference to some draw and not the actual bet.

It doesn't really matter if "you construe that to be a weak lead and raise to 1900" cause the most likely scenario is that you or villain are drawing to 2 outs.

phantom_lord

1/2 c-bet is fairly standard for a reraised pot, so it's not really a weak lead.

- he wants to be able to 3 bet you and still have enough left to fold after he has missed.

I doubt it, at a big stretch what might have happened is he made a standard bet with air, took the 1900 raise as a bluff, which in a sense it kinda is, and tried rebluffing. but i doubt it.

BigCityBanker

Result..

MilkyBarKid_Ben Grundy wrote:

The $5000 NL Hold'em i probably played my worst tournament of the Series and was a bit tilted after the second hand that i played.

Blinds 25/50... i raised the cut off with AK. The SB reraised me to 600. I called. the flop came K62 rainbow. He led out for 600... i made it it 1900... he made it 4200. Hmmm ... i folded. Its tough to think of a hand i can actually beat. Think given i have no reason to think he is making a move on me its like 35% we have the same hand or i am ahead, 65% chance i am behind. I mucked!

MacStacked

Admire his honesty.

phantom_lord

but the title said interesting hand?

Hectorjelly

maybe grundy has Eczema

Goodluck2me

im yet to hear anything good about Ben Grundy.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Hitman Actual

People need to stop thinking that just because someone is on the Hendon Mob database, they're actually some sort of expert at the game. That's not a slight against Grundy, btw, it just always annoys me when these stats are thrown around.

Big lol at the flop raise as well.

Hectorjelly

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing, cashing in a few tournaments means almost nothing. I dont know anything about grundy.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing, cashing in a few tournaments means almost nothing. I dont know anything about grundy.

I watched his table in Dortmund for 2 hours. He was shortstacked most of the time but he looked like the biggest fish at the table. I was really scratching my head wondering wtf he was thinking most of the time. He looked exactly like a .50/1 player who never learned the basics.

NickyOD

LuckyLloyd wrote:

With all due respect, demonstrating the fact that a player has a number of very respectable tourney results over an extended period of time is very relevant IMO. Either:

If you don't know how many tournaments he enters then it's not relevant.

HINT: He plays lots!!!

phantom_lord

NickyOD wrote:

I watched his table in Dortmund for 2 hours. He was shortstacked most of the time but he looked like the biggest fish at the table. I was really scratching my head wondering wtf he was thinking most of the time. He looked exactly like a .50/1 player who never learned the basics.

lol, that's what I said to you at the open about micky weirnick, and you laughed at me and told he'd been voted european player of the year or something!

how are any of these people pros??

NickyOD

phantom_lord wrote:

lol, that's what I said to you at the open about micky weirnick, and you laughed at me and told he'd been voted european player of the year or something!

how are any of these people pros??

Yeah I know but I've played with Mickey twice and he has his strong points. There's no better man for putting pressure on people, plus he has a much cooler nickname.

Grundy to me just comes across as a passive fish, although I'll admit he can be very tricky at times.

Goodluck2me

NickyOD wrote:

If you don't know how many tournaments he enters then it's not relevant.

HINT: He plays lots!!!

Your better than Helmuth sure... would he break .50/1?

careca

I have been reading his blog for about three years now and he must be doing something right, as he is consistently winning at big stakes games (omaha seems to be his main game).

He does play a lot of tournaments but not as many as other pros (hellmuth, andy black, etc) and has some good results as the hendon db shows.

I think it should be pointed out that there are an awful lot of players (lot of them Irish) who are hugely admired on boards because they make a living from poker, yet they don't have that many great results to speak of in tournments.

And I would also admire his honestly in posting the hand as in the section he admits how bad he played the whole tournament and gave the hand as an example.

strewelpeter

After the SB leads for 600, what is the optimum way for Grundy to play the hand?

Captain Tom

strewelpeter wrote:

After the SB leads for 600, what is the optimum way for Grundy to play the hand?

call re-evaluate turn.

did anyone happen to catch his exit hand from the betfair asian poker masters? astonishingly bad play.

im also confused as to how he managed to build a name for himself in plo. my friend plays him regularly and shows me a lot of the hands he's played against grundy. he really doesnt seem that far off Bluescouse to me.

eoghan104

Hectorjelly wrote:

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing, cashing in a few tournaments means almost nothing. I dont know anything about grundy.

This attitude about successfull players always annoys me!!! Why are the likes of Grundy, hellmuth, negranu and matasow all so successfull if they are so bad? ( this isnt just you HJ its Lenny leonard nicky and others too)

Why are you all not big players like them if you are so much better? Serious question. Like when Nicky says "Im better than Hellmuth" what is this based on?

Also how is someones results not relevant to measuring their ability? What is?

Id be interested to hear responses to this?

Hectorjelly

Any player who knows the basic rules of poker and plays enough tournaments will end up cashing in them. You can even play extraordinarily badly and win them, like the chief and that lad in cork. Poker is a game where anyone can win. Hal fowler won the WSOP despite being a total donk. So putting up someones tournament winnings is pretty meaningless. First of all it takes no account of the varience that is inherint in tournaments, and second it is only one side of the score card. We have no idea how much Grundy has spent on tournament entry fees, his all times cashes for $500,000 wouldnt be very impressive if hed paid a million in entry fees.

I dont think im a better player than any of those you listed, but im not going to hero worship someone like Matasow who is millions in debt because cardplayer tells me to.

eoghan104

Hectorjelly wrote:

Any player who knows the basic rules of poker and plays enough tournaments will end up cashing in them. You can even play extraordinarily badly and win them, like the chief and that lad in cork. Poker is a game where anyone can win. Hal fowler won the WSOP despite being a total donk. So putting up someones tournament winnings is pretty meaningless. First of all it takes no account of the varience that is inherint in tournaments, and second it is only one side of the score card. We have no idea how much Grundy has spent on tournament entry fees, his all times cashes for $500,000 wouldnt be very impressive if hed paid a million in entry fees.

I dont think im a better player than any of those you listed, but im not going to hero worship someone like Matasow who is millions in debt because cardplayer tells me to.

That is a fair point you make about tournaments. Thanks for the reply.

Hitman Actual

Pretty much what HJ said. I definitely can't answer it any better. And I never explicitly said that any players on the database are bad (although I'm sure some are), and I also never said I was better than them. I just don't think that the database is necessarily the best indicator of someones skill in the game.