new cycle routes in Dublin (or Eire)

oobydooby

Following the election of the Green Party into government, it must be a good opportunity for concerned cyclists to lobby for improved cycle tracks.

There was talk of an unbroken track from Sandycove to Sutton. I'd love to see this introduced. The stretch of track from the Alfie Byrne Road to Sutton is exemplary (excepting the small gap there at Bull Island). Was thinking for the Sandymount stretch that perhaps a boardwalk style route would be appropriate (as on the Liffey). There is of course talk of developing a motorway here to join up with the N11 and complete the East link orbital route, so any plans for a cycle track would have to be considered carefully as they could contain a trojan horse!

Anyway, what routes would fellow posters suggest. I'd like to see good safe commuter/recreational routes. Obvious candidates are:

1) Royal and grand canals - upgrade of towpath with separate sections for walkers and for cyclists. From suburbs to the city, avoiding lights and traffic.

2) Luas Lines and Dart lines could easily accomodate a wide cyclists' path parallel to them and safely separate from the trains

3) River stretches, like the Dodder from Clonskeagh to Ringsend. The Tolka out to Glasnevin.

4) Networks of routes like the Wicklow way, and other Ways around the country joined up like they have on the Big Island next door;)

5) Maybe a cycle track through the Tara Valley for the fit commuters of Greater Dublin!

6) An imaginative proposal for the quays?? O'Connell Street?? Any takers?

DITTKD

They should have put cycle tracks along the Luas lines. I taught this before I ever rode a bike in this city. It just makes sense like.


Anyway, from my own experience: the Oscar Traynor road in Coolock needs one. There’s a lot of lorries on that road, and a lot of cyclists.
I’d like to see Amiens st/ North Strand road repaired, instead of the current situation where they’ve tarmaced over the cycle lane.

comer_97

a cyclepath to lucan would be pretty sweet. The M50 roundabout is a bit tricky but if they could do something at the slip road to liffey valley because that is the worst part of my day!

mloc123

comer_97 wrote:

a cyclepath to lucan would be pretty sweet. The M50 roundabout is a bit tricky but if they could do something at the slip road to liffey valley because that is the worst part of my day!

I'd second that, I think once the m50 works are finished it should be better tho'

Stark

oobydooby wrote:

1) Royal and grand canals - upgrade of towpath with separate sections for walkers and for cyclists. From suburbs to the city, avoiding lights and traffic.

3) River stretches, like the Dodder from Clonskeagh to Ringsend. The Tolka out to Glasnevin.

With the two of these, I'd have a perfect cycle route to work.

John_C

I'd prefer if they didn't bring in any new cycle tracks until the ones we have are brought up to a reasonable standard. Building more of the same will just make the job of fixing the mistakes in them bigger when someone decides to do it.

cyclopath2001

oobydooby wrote:

There was talk of an unbroken track from Sandycove to Sutton. I'd love to see this introduced. The stretch of track from the Alfie Byrne Road to Sutton is exemplary (excepting the small gap there at Bull Island).

I cycle that one regularly. 'Exemplery' is not a term I'd use, maybe 'could do better' or 'somewhat above a woeful average'.

How about the weeds completely blocking the outbound lane for over 1km? Or the cars parked on it at the pumping station in Clontarf? The construction compund positioned on a hazardous junction? The lack of proper road interfaces? No centre line? Benches and litter bins on the track?

Never mind the fact that it's very exposed to coastal gales and is much abused by stupid roller bladers and ignorant joggers.

Let's not give the City Council any cause for complacency.

miketv

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I cycle that one regularly. 'Exemplery' is not a term I'd use, maybe 'could do better' or 'somewhat above a woeful average'.

How about the weeds completely blocking the outbound lane for over 1km? Or the cars parked on it at the pumping station in Clontarf? The construction compund positioned on a hazardous junction? The lack of proper road interfaces? No centre line? Benches and litter bins on the track?

Never mind the fact that it's very exposed to coastal gales and is much abused by stupid roller bladers and ignorant joggers.

Let's not give the City Council any cause for complacency.

Dont forgot the people who let their dogs walk across the cycle path :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

comer_97 wrote:

a cyclepath to lucan would be pretty sweet. The M50 roundabout is a bit tricky but if they could do something at the slip road to liffey valley because that is the worst part of my day!

better still make one along the south of the river from Islandbridge so you pass well under the M50

cyclopath2001

miketv wrote:

Dont forgot the people who let their dogs walk across the cycle path :rolleyes:

Maybe we could get them to use flourescent dog-leads?

But to stay on topic, we first need to audit what's been done and then, quite often, undone. We need to ban the contractors and engineers who've produced shoddy and often unlawful work.

Then we need to have a statement of what cycle tracks are supposed to be for. Ask any engineer and I think you'll be told that they're to keep cyclists in their place.

No point in having 'more of the same'.

P_1

Out of curiosity are there any maps in the public domain that show the location of all the cycle paths in Dublin?

comer_97

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

better still make one along the south of the river from Islandbridge so you pass well under the M50

that would be cool and picturesque

RainyDay

oobydooby wrote:

2) Luas Lines and Dart lines could easily accomodate a wide cyclists' path parallel to them and safely separate from the trains

How/where would you run the cycle lane at Luas stations to avoid clashing with Luas passengers?

cyclopath2001

pithater1 wrote:

Out of curiosity are there any maps in the public domain that show the location of all the cycle paths in Dublin?

You mean like this one?

P_1

cyclopath2001 wrote:

You mean like this one?

Something like that one allright

Although are there any that have been published more recently?
I'm sure we have more cycle paths now than we did in 1998.
At least I hope we do

cyclopath2001

pithater1 wrote:

Something like that one allright

Although are there any that have been published more recently?
I'm sure we have more cycle paths now than we did in 1998.
At least I hope we do

Well we might have more, but for the fact that many cycle tracks are removed some time after they've been 'built'. Here's another fantastic map. It's more recent but shows a cycle track on the N32 that was removed many years ago.

oobydooby

@cyclopath - I commend your choice of adjective for that "fantastic" map. I'm sure some authority got loads of European money for that plan and some visionary got a promotion as a result. However the plan is unrealistic, although admirable. I don't disapprove of having a metre of the road tarred a different colour and allegedly reserved for cyclists - it's better than negotiating the kerb, puddles, potholes and closer traffic that is the norm on busy roads. However these are not what I had in mind when I think of commuters' cycle tracks.

As far as I can make out the waterways are our best chance of getting quality tracks made out. As for the Lucan suggestion, I must confess I don't know the route - is there a potential track there? Capt'n Midnight's idea is very appealing if it's practical - any excuse for a safe and pleasant trip to Islandbridge and beyond! Ideally it would be wonderful to have a few excellent radial routes from the city, for non-motorised vehicles only. These could encourage more commuters to cycle and thus increase pressure for better cycle lanes to complement these radial routes.


@rainyday

"Quote:
Originally Posted by oobydooby
2) Luas Lines and Dart lines could easily accomodate a wide cyclists' path parallel to them and safely separate from the trains
How/where would you run the cycle lane at Luas stations to avoid clashing with Luas passengers?"

Touche Guaranteeing pedestrian safety would certainly inconvenience cyclists; but maybe there's a workable compromise - like the bus stops on the N11 perhaps, with some sort of awkward barrier forcing us to dismount, or at least stop where footpaths meet Luas stops meet cycle track. I think the safer route would compensate for the intermittent disruption, but it wouldn't be an ideal cycle track in my mind.

How about routes through the city? Would a boardwalk the length of the Liffey work, complementing the Docklands track/construction site and another route to Islandbridge? I'd love to see a mad proposal, like a floating bicycle track along the middle of the Liffey, from the Customs House up to Heuston Station. I know high tide might require ducking under bridges and there's potential for vandalism and thuggery under the bridges. Put a transparent bottom on the track too - it would look cool and with some good lighting could even make the trolleys look artistic at night time.

Ghost Rider

A boardwalk cycle path would be lovely, though it would probably confuse the junkies. Canal paths would also be useful.

In general, though, I tend to agree with (the appropriately named) Cyclopath: talk of new paths is a bit of a distraction from the shameful design and condition of most of the existing ones.

Also, the law around cycle paths will have to change before I start to get excited about new ones. As it stands, new paths would mean new obligations for cyclists more than new freedoms for them.

oobydooby wrote:

@cyclopath - I commend your choice of adjective for that "fantastic" map. I'm sure some authority got loads of European money for that plan and some visionary got a promotion as a result. However the plan is unrealistic, although admirable. I don't disapprove of having a metre of the road tarred a different colour and allegedly reserved for cyclists - it's better than negotiating the kerb, puddles, potholes and closer traffic that is the norm on busy roads. However these are not what I had in mind when I think of commuters' cycle tracks.

As far as I can make out the waterways are our best chance of getting quality tracks made out. As for the Lucan suggestion, I must confess I don't know the route - is there a potential track there? Capt'n Midnight's idea is very appealing if it's practical - any excuse for a safe and pleasant trip to Islandbridge and beyond! Ideally it would be wonderful to have a few excellent radial routes from the city, for non-motorised vehicles only. These could encourage more commuters to cycle and thus increase pressure for better cycle lanes to complement these radial routes.


@rainyday

"Quote:
Originally Posted by oobydooby
2) Luas Lines and Dart lines could easily accomodate a wide cyclists' path parallel to them and safely separate from the trains
How/where would you run the cycle lane at Luas stations to avoid clashing with Luas passengers?"

Touche Guaranteeing pedestrian safety would certainly inconvenience cyclists; but maybe there's a workable compromise - like the bus stops on the N11 perhaps, with some sort of awkward barrier forcing us to dismount, or at least stop where footpaths meet Luas stops meet cycle track. I think the safer route would compensate for the intermittent disruption, but it wouldn't be an ideal cycle track in my mind.

How about routes through the city? Would a boardwalk the length of the Liffey work, complementing the Docklands track/construction site and another route to Islandbridge? I'd love to see a mad proposal, like a floating bicycle track along the middle of the Liffey, from the Customs House up to Heuston Station. I know high tide might require ducking under bridges and there's potential for vandalism and thuggery under the bridges. Put a transparent bottom on the track too - it would look cool and with some good lighting could even make the trolleys look artistic at night time.

cyclopath2001

oobydooby wrote:

@cyclopath - I commend your choice of adjective for that "fantastic" map.

Yes, indeed I meant 'fantastic' in the correct dictionary meaning of the word. Our planners & road engineers live in a fantasy world, no doubt shared with grateful cyclists.

Latest news is that the cycle track constructed last year on St John's Road West outbound has now been removed.

RainyDay

oobydooby wrote:

Touche Guaranteeing pedestrian safety would certainly inconvenience cyclists; but maybe there's a workable compromise - like the bus stops on the N11 perhaps, with some sort of awkward barrier forcing us to dismount, or at least stop where footpaths meet Luas stops meet cycle track. I think the safer route would compensate for the intermittent disruption, but it wouldn't be an ideal cycle track in my mind.

To be honest, I just don't believe this is practical. Having to dismount at each stop would be a huge deterrent. It is likely that many cyclists wouldn't bother dismounting leading to chaos.

Capt'n Midnight

The best cycle lanes would be away from the roads, imagine a lane through Stephens Green and other parks so there is peace and quiet. Or along the canals , going UNDER the bridges so you didn't have to stop. Most of the way from town to Lucan could be done through parks / public land

NewDubliner

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The best cycle lanes would be away from the roads, imagine a lane through Stephens Green and other parks so there is peace and quiet. Or along the canals , going UNDER the bridges so you didn't have to stop. Most of the way from town to Lucan could be done through parks / public land

Such lanes would need to well-lit at night and swept of leaves and debris.

John_C

NewDubliner wrote:

Such lanes would need to well-lit at night and swept of leaves and debris.

And kept free from pedestrians.

cyclopath2001

John_C wrote:

And kept free from pedestrians.

Not going to happen.
No Irish cycle track has ever been designed with the needs of cyclists as its primary purpose.

cunnins4

adjacent to the tolka to glasnevin would be cool. the sutton one too. i was just out there tonight (got a poxy puncture at howth and had to walk back to the texaco on the seafront) the walkers are an awful pain in the balls. dogs too. i wish it was somehow separate from the walkway, but i guess the only way to do that would be a dividing wall or something but that would just be crazy. It's a nice cycle from sutton all the way along the coast to eastpoint business park. i usually take that route and then back up griffith avenue to glasnevin. if the bull island part had a cycle path it'd be a really great one.

Stark

The Phoenix Park cycle tracks are also a bitch when it comes to walkers.

Ghost Rider

Quite right. They're unbelievable. What's most frustrating is the presence of perfectly good pedestrian pathways parallel to the cycle paths which are routinely ignored by walkers.

Stark wrote:

The Phoenix Park cycle tracks are also a bitch when it comes to walkers.

DITTKD

What’s the story with Fairview Park? Was there a cycle path through that before they started building the Port Tunnel? When’s it going to be reopened? Where does it start/finish?

Ghost Rider

I don't know if there was one in the park, but there has been one next to the footpath outside the perimeter for years. It's another of those ones we appear to be sharing with those wheel-less cyclists, the pedestrians.

DITTKD wrote:

What’s the story with Fairview Park? Was there a cycle path through that before they started building the Port Tunnel? When’s it going to be reopened? Where does it start/finish?

oobydooby

DITTKD wrote:

What’s the story with Fairview Park? Was there a cycle path through that before they started building the Port Tunnel? When’s it going to be reopened? Where does it start/finish?

Yes there was a cycle track through the park (2 actually!). Essentially the footpaths through the park were split in two, one half for walkers and one for cyclists. Coming from Clontarf you could enter the park at Westwood gym on the track and cut straight across to emerge at the Tolka at Annesley House, or turn left and come out at East Wall where the railway line crosses the Tolka.

It wasn't ideal if I remember right because you had to dismount entering or leaving through a narrow gate (sensibly perhaps because you're meeting a footpath!) but it was peaceful and pleasant. There used to be a track through Sean Moore park as well, near the Irish bottle plant at Ringsend towards Sandymount. This whole area is to be developed soon, but the park has been closed to cyclists for a few years now

As for your questions about it reopening...

Stark

oobydooby wrote:

It wasn't ideal if I remember right because you had to dismount entering or leaving through a narrow gate (sensibly perhaps because you're meeting a footpath!) but it was peaceful and pleasant.

Better than the dead leaves and dirty pedestrians route anyway I'd imagine.

mikemac

Possibly the council could build a dedicated cycle lane in Fairview Park just inside the barrier.
I realise there is a footpath in the park but pedestrians should be let use that and the new cycle lane should be distinctive (colored tarmac for instance) so pedestrians will clearly know it's out of bounds.

It's a fairly simple thing to do-you could easily do it in a few weeks or maybe less.

And when it's finished pedestrians can then get full use of the pathway which they currently share with cyclists as the cycle lane markings can be erased.

I love the idea of a cyclelane by the canal by the way

ednwireland

should get this crowd involved (have a look at he map its 4.2mb)
oops link http://www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp?sID=1089735289781

DITTKD

RE: Fairview cycle lane
Yeah, I'm not fond of errant pedestrians either, but please remember to spare some of your ire for cyclists who travel the wrong way down the cycle lane around the park.
There's a track on the other side of the road for them. dopes.

Stark

DITTKD wrote:

There's a track on the other side of the road for them. dopes.

You mean the car park?

RainyDay

Ghost Rider wrote:

Quite right. They're unbelievable. What's most frustrating is the presence of perfectly good pedestrian pathways parallel to the cycle paths which are routinely ignored by walkers.

How about a planned protest by cyclists involving large numbers of cyclists in groups to ensure that walkers have no choice but to move over, possibly accompanied by distribution of leaflets or cards explaining the problem?

Brooklyn74

I've been having to cycle down Parnell Street a lot lately and the problem with the pedestrians is unbelievable there too. They seem to think the cycle lane is a spillover lane for them when they can't get their shopping bags past the other people on the footpath. Came very close to running into someone the other day who had stepped out right into my path without even looking, fortunately I just managed to avoid her, but of course from the look on her face it was my fault :rolleyes:

cyclopath2001

RainyDay wrote:

How about a planned protest by cyclists involving large numbers of cyclists in groups to ensure that walkers have no choice but to move over, possibly accompanied by distribution of leaflets or cards explaining the problem?

I think law-breaking by pedestrians is the least problem.

The real villains are the councils. What's needed is to get the Auditor & Comptroller General on their case & call them to account for wasting money on sub-standard and unlawful 'facilities' & for the regular disappearance of cycle tracks that they were paid to build and maintain.

The Greens need to use their influence in government, at the very least to undo the damage done by the PDs back in 1998 when they legalised driving on cycle tracks.

oobydooby

ednwireland wrote:

should get this crowd involved (have a look at he map its 4.2mb)
oops link http://www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp?sID=1089735289781

This is brilliant! But I worry that it might also be fantastic (as Cyclopath uses it!) Now, I haven't cycled much of the UK but I know that much of those networks are in the countryside and away from traffic. Yes the routes are shared with walkers but walkers are not a threat to me; perhaps an inconvenience, but on the Irish roads it is walkers and pedestrians who are vulnerable. These are the kind of tracks I want to see here - I'd rather share a track with walkers and dogs than with motor vehicles. At night this is more problematic though.

Have you connections with these guys? It would be interesting to hear how they lobbied for the tracks, how they lobby to keep the tracks maintained and who is responsible for the tracks. Our systems of government are fairly similar! (unless the monarchs are into cycling)

I think it's best for us to identify a few safe dedicated commuter cycle tracks. No half-arsed compromises. The canals and river banks and coast seem the best options. A few public park routes too. The aim is to get regular commuters using their bikes (even only occasionally) as the most efficient and safe way to commute so that when we push for better facilities we're not seen as some crew of diehard deathdodgers.

It was on RTE news that 2/3 of workers drive to work. Everyone wants more cyclists but nobody wants to cycle because it's seen as dangerous and uncomfortable. A quality network of 3m wide track, protected from traffic, through pleasant environments, with discreet low light-polluting posts (unobtrusive for walkers) or cateye style lighting should be ripe for the political agenda. It would be a good base from which to develop or upgrade further tracks.

seamus

comer_97 wrote:

a cyclepath to lucan would be pretty sweet. The M50 roundabout is a bit tricky but if they could do something at the slip road to liffey valley because that is the worst part of my day!

:rolleyes:
I made a commitment to myself that I'll never use the N4 to cycle into work, and I'm sticking to that. Seriously, you must be bonkers. I'm surprised that cyclists aren't flattened at that slip road on a daily basis.

Theoretically there are cycle tracks most of the way into town from Lucan. My route takes me up the fonthill road, onto the coldcut road, down through ballyfermot, then inchicore, kilmainham, etc on into the city centre. SDCC and DCC probably claim that this entire route is cycle tracked, but in reality it's just a bit of badly painted tarmac.
In both directions, the track constantly jumps on and off the path, and randomly stops then restarts again 200m down the road. It may also jump onto a path, stop, then restart again on the road, with no indication of how you're supposed to switch safely from path to road. At multiple points it gets inexplicably narrower (so that cars will just jump in on top of you). It also passes *in front* of bus stops, so that busses letting passengers out just spill out in front of you, or people waiting for a bus don't bother moving out of your way. Aside from these, the entire route is littered (I mean littered) with broken glass and large stones. I've complained to SDCC, been told that they'd clean them midweek, but I've yet to see anything.

What Cap'n Midnight proposes is a good idea for that route. At the M50 junction, they really badly need to put in a bike/pedestrian bridge, like they have at the N81 junction. This should then join up with the ped/cycle path on the northern edge of the N4 and bring you safely all the way into Lucan Village.

Aside from Lucan, I think tracks along the canals would be a great idea too. You could put up signs all the way too saying "If you had cycled to work, you'd be five minutes from Grafton St" (say, at Portobello).

P_1

seamus wrote:

Aside from Lucan, I think tracks along the canals would be a great idea too. You could put up signs all the way too saying "If you had cycled to work, you'd be five minutes from Grafton St" (say, at Portobello).

I like that idea