Renaming of Thomond ?

Liam Byrne

I personally think that Munster are giving the Greens a run for their money in the "let's perform the biggest sellout of what's important" competition 2007, but what are the views of those one the boards ?

Am tempted to personally boycott any matches in "not-called-Thomond-anymore" Park, leading to a future of only watching the team on TV or in the pub when possible, in order to support the team

I might even continue to visit a "still-called-Musgrave" Park, as I have regularly done to date, but I'll refuse to support any sellout of the name, or pay for anything that's related to the accountants involved in selling (out) the name.

Not everything should be for sale; even those involved in the money-racket associated with soccer have the decency to only propose renaming new grounds and stadia.

If I were one of the people who'd agreed to sell their houses to Munster, I'd revoke that sale until the accountants and seller-outers decide to cop themselves on.

D-A-V-E

Liam Byrne wrote:

I personally think that Munster are giving the Greens a run for their money in the "let's perform the biggest sellout of what's important" competition 2007, but what are the views of those one the boards ?

Am tempted to personally boycott any matches in "not-called-Thomond-anymore" Park, leading to a future of only watching the team on TV or in the pub when possible, in order to support the team

I might even continue to visit a "still-called-Musgrave" Park, as I have regularly done to date, but I'll refuse to support any sellout of the name, or pay for anything that's related to the accountants involved in selling (out) the name.

Not everything should be for sale; even those involved in the money-racket associated with soccer have the decency to only propose renaming new grounds and stadia.

If I were one of the people who'd agreed to sell their houses to Munster, I'd revoke that sale until the accountants and seller-outers decide to cop themselves on.

as mush as i hate to see the name Thomond go, its for the best, in order to help munster with the finances of the new stadium, which, if you were any kind of munster supporter (and i dont know if you are or not) you shuld welcome..the name Thomond is always going to be referred to anyway..

Karmafaerie

Sickening!
Simply sickening!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

hobie

Karmafaerie wrote:

Sickening!
Simply sickening!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

same reaction from me .....

Liam Byrne

I did invite opinions, and I respect that people can have different opinions, but the following quote is WAY out of order:

D-A-V-E wrote:

....which, if you were any kind of munster supporter (and i dont know if you are or not) you shuld welcome...the name Thomond is always going to be referred to anyway..

Are you're basically saying that if I disagree with you then "I'm not any kind of Munster supporter" :mad: (and BTW, Munster has a capital "M" because it's an offical placename too). That method of keeping people quiet doesn't work with me......yes, I'd love to see Munster have more money (although, on reflection, I'm one of those people who thinks that branded merchandise should actually be cheaper so that ALL supporters going to matches are wearing them) and better players, etc, but not "at any cost".

The country is going sell-out mad. Next we'll be getting Dell to sponsor the entire city and we'll replace "Limerick" on the signposts with "Dell".....after all, it's only a placename, right ? Who cares if we throw it away, as long as we get paid......

Sure why not go the whole hog and rename Ireland "Bertie's place" or "The Location of George's War Airport" ?

Feckin' hell......Dingle fights for its name, Derry fights to oppose the name LondonDerry*, but the rest of us don't give a rat's ass as long as we get paid.......

* Not condoning the way some psychos decided to fight about it but at least they gave a ****.....

jonski

Liam Byrne wrote:

(although, on reflection, I'm one of those people who thinks that branded merchandise should actually be cheaper so that ALL supporters going to matches are wearing them)

Although I do agree with all you have said , I highlight the above as it proves that I am not the only one .

lecomte

Liam Byrne wrote:

I did invite opinions, and I respect that people can have different opinions, but the following quote is WAY out of order:



Are you're basically saying that if I disagree with you then "I'm not any kind of Munster supporter" :mad: (and BTW, Munster has a capital "M" because it's an offical placename too). That method of keeping people quiet doesn't work with me......yes, I'd love to see Munster have more money (although, on reflection, I'm one of those people who thinks that branded merchandise should actually be cheaper so that ALL supporters going to matches are wearing them) and better players, etc, but not "at any cost".

The country is going sell-out mad. Next we'll be getting Dell to sponsor the entire city and we'll replace "Limerick" on the signposts with "Dell".....after all, it's only a placename, right ? Who cares if we throw it away, as long as we get paid......

Sure why not go the whole hog and rename Ireland "Bertie's place" or "The Location of George's War Airport" ?

Feckin' hell......Dingle fights for its name, Derry fights to oppose the name LondonDerry*, but the rest of us don't give a rat's ass as long as we get paid.......

* Not condoning the way some psychos decided to fight about it but at least they gave a ****.....

The guy qualified what he said with the parentheses "(and I don't know if you're not...)" so you have absolutely no reason to get het up about what he said other than you want to.

To make the comparison of "Londonderry" and the choice of corporate sponsorship is so far out of whack it's unreal and I suggest you think long and hard before siting such examples to back up your feelings of disgust around Munster's new sponsorship deal. Initiially, I was very disappointed about the whole thing, and then I thought to myself "What's the most prominent logo on the Munster Jersey"? It certainly isn't Munster. The fact is that this selling out occurred a long time ago, and to become so attached now to the name of the park is just pointless hypocrisy. We are getting a shed-load of cash, and we live in a capitalist society. If you want to see Munster maintain their position as one of the strongest sides in Europe, I suggest you quit your belly-aching, make a personal resolution never to refer to it as "Toyota Park" ask your own friends to do the same and get behind your team.

krudler

its the same the world over,corporations buy the rights to the names of stadiums and put hundreds of thousands if not millions into it,itll always be thomond park so what does it matter who buys the rights to the name, like the skydome in toronto is now the rogers at&t centre but nobody calls it that (which is a hell of an arena i might add). corporate sponsors means more money for the team to spend on better facilities and players which means more winning so what does it matter the place where they play is called

ninty9er

Regardless of the official name it'll still be Thomond Park. If it allows the Munster Branch to come out of the construction debt free it's possibly worth ther trade off.

some examples of where name changes mean nothing

Debenhams still= Roches
Brown Thomas still = Todds
Dunnes Henry St still = Spaights Bus stop

and I'm only 20

There's also nothing to stop someone paying for the right to call it Toyota Thomond Park or Bank of Ireland Thomond Park or plain Thomond Park or even Richard Harris Park

Karmafaerie

Thomond Park is more than just a name.
It's an institution.
Rugby fans from all over the world know Thomond Park.

It's History.
It's Pride.
It's Munster.
And it's most definitely more than just a name.

I remember the first time going to a game at the stadium.
I remember the first time watching my father play there.
And I remember the first time I played there myself as a kid.
It's just special.

In Limerick we're famed with having a special bond with rugby, and with Munster.
That all centers around and incorporates Thomond Park.
Other clubs can do what they want with their stadiums.
They can name them after the Telly Tubbies for all I care.

This isn't other clubs, and it most certainly isn't just another stadium.

I know that the record is gone, but other teams are still going to be scared of coming to the home of Munster.
Do you think that they'd be as intimidated if they had to play in the Big Mac, Toyota, Bank Of Ireland, Tubs and Tiles Stadium?!!!:mad:
Do you think that the silence will have as much of an impact?!

This isn't Todds or Roches Stores that we're talking about here for Christ sake!
It's Munster!

I honestly believe that Munster have the best supporters in world rugby. Just like I honestly believe that Munster is the best club.
Why should we settle for what's acceptable for the others?

Thomond Park is Thomond Park!

'nuff said!!!

Liam Byrne

lecomte wrote:

The guy qualified what he said with the parentheses "(and I don't know if you're not...)" so you have absolutely no reason to get het up about what he said other than you want to.

The quote was that "if I was any kind of Munster supporter.....I'd welcome the cash [at any cost]". That implies that the poster has a monopoly on knowing what a Munster supporter should and shouldn't agree with.

To make the comparison of "Londonderry" and the choice of corporate sponsorship is so far out of whack it's unreal

I agree that it's slightly different, but I cited both Dingle and Derry as examples of placenames being changed against the wishes of the people; yes, the difference is that Munster will get paid, while neither Dingle nor Derry did, but there is enough of a similarity for the comparison to be valid on that level.

"What's the most prominent logo on the Munster Jersey"? It certainly isn't Munster.

This is very true, and the fact is that sports teams (including even the amateur GAA) have maximised the advertising potential of their shirts; this, again, is a different comparision, though, as it is more similar to selling space on the advertising hoardings or even the roof of the stadium for aerial shots, than it is to changing the name of a place.

If you want to see Munster maintain their position as one of the strongest sides in Europe, I suggest you quit your belly-aching, make a personal resolution never to refer to it as "Toyota Park" ask your own friends to do the same and get behind your team.

I have already indicated that I strongly disagree with having overpriced official branded merchandise, since the sponsorship deals should make them cheaper (why pay €70 for the privilege of advertising Toyota ? ) but in support of the team I have purchased same.....so I have gotten behind my team. And (similar to the earlier post referred to) please stop being patronising and saying what you believe a Munster supporter should do; I asked for the views of others on the boards, and am prepared to respect their views, but I did not expect my support for the team to be called into question simply because I do not agree; neither do I expect a perfectly valid view to be dismissed as "belly-aching".

People gave up their homes so that "Thomond Park" could be expanded, so that Munster would not have to move; those people were almost villified when there was a chance that they might not move, because most of the public wanted to see Munster to continue playing in Thomond Park. If the name changes, that argument is, at the very least, diluted.

If the name-change does go through, will Munster use some of the "40 pieces of silver" to pay the City Council's costs of changing all the signposts that lead to the famous venue ?

As Karmafaerie said, Thomond Park is Thomond Park. Hands off the name.

limerick_man

Karmafaerie wrote:

I remember the first time going to a game at the stadium.
I remember the first time watching my father play there.
And I remember the first time I played there myself as a kid.

You're thinking of the old Stadium which is currently being torn down... They were great memories. But you know what else is great? Munster.

Munster wont be able to afford to build a new stadium without renaming it. And yes, i do think people will be able to stay silent in this new stadium, whatever it be called. The name doesnt change a sport or a crowd....

Other teams arnt afraid of the name Thomond Park they found the way the old stadium was laid out to be awesome. Not the name..

People didnt really give up there homes, they held on to them until they got 3 times what they wanted - in fact it is probably because of them that the stadium must get a sponsored name.

I dunno, I'd prefer it to stay Thomond Park, just like I'd hope Croke Park will remain as such, but i realise its not really a choice, its necessary! And you never know, maybe businessmen may come together and buy the rights and keep the name. Or why dont those who strongly beleive it should retain the name start a fund to buy the name.

I don't welcome the change at all but I still feel it is a small price to pay for the benefit of a new stadium.I believe the name will only change officially.The only people that will use it will be commentators on tv.Most Munster people will have so many great memories attatched to the name that they will still refer to the stadium as "Thomond Park".As will most visiting fans.If Stradey Park or another well known European stadium changed its name I would still refer to its original name.If Twickenham changed to the O2 Stadium or Murrayfield changed to the Famous Grouse Park I believe nearly everyone would still refer to their original names.So therefore I don't think the name change will have as big an impact as most people think.

lecomte

Liam Byrne wrote:

The quote was that "if I was any kind of Munster supporter.....I'd welcome the cash [at any cost]". That implies that the poster has a monopoly on knowing what a Munster supporter should and shouldn't agree with.

I agree that it's slightly different, but I cited both Dingle and Derry as examples of placenames being changed against the wishes of the people; yes, the difference is that Munster will get paid, while neither Dingle nor Derry did, but there is enough of a similarity for the comparison to be valid on that level.

This is very true, and the fact is that sports teams (including even the amateur GAA) have maximised the advertising potential of their shirts; this, again, is a different comparision, though, as it is more similar to selling space on the advertising hoardings or even the roof of the stadium for aerial shots, than it is to changing the name of a place.



I have already indicated that I strongly disagree with having overpriced official branded merchandise, since the sponsorship deals should make them cheaper (why pay €70 for the privilege of advertising Toyota ? ) but in support of the team I have purchased same.....so I have gotten behind my team. And (similar to the earlier post referred to) please stop being patronising and saying what you believe a Munster supporter should do; I asked for the views of others on the boards, and am prepared to respect their views, but I did not expect my support for the team to be called into question simply because I do not agree; neither do I expect a perfectly valid view to be dismissed as "belly-aching".

People gave up their homes so that "Thomond Park" could be expanded, so that Munster would not have to move; those people were almost villified when there was a chance that they might not move, because most of the public wanted to see Munster to continue playing in Thomond Park. If the name changes, that argument is, at the very least, diluted.

If the name-change does go through, will Munster use some of the "40 pieces of silver" to pay the City Council's costs of changing all the signposts that lead to the famous venue ?

As Karmafaerie said, Thomond Park is Thomond Park. Hands off the name.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." and all that.

It's not the name that makes the place. It's not the name that disorients the visiting sides.

The only similarity in your comparison around Dingle and Derry is that the name was changed. It stops there when the concept of "freedom of choice" raises its head. If you are still unclear, I suggest to really illuminate my point, head on up to Derry City and make your point of comparison there.

The principle of a sponsorship logo for a shirt and a sponsorship deal for a stadium are one and the same.

It was 30 pieces of silver that Judas sold Christ for, and your comparison is as melodramatic as it is inaccurate.

I'm sure the council will get enough recompense with the extra five thousand or so visiting spectators it can accommodate as a result of the expansion in order to change those pesky signs.

Your point about the people who moved in order for the stadium to expand is equally tenuous. Ground is ground, space is space, a change of name doesn't change the fact the land was required for a bigger stadium for Munster. How on bull-dozed earth does that dilute the argument? Ridiculous stuff.

Opinions are valid, I agree. My opinion is that you are belly-aching. That's all. You don't agree. Fair enough.

This post was sponsored by the good people of Toyota.

lecomte

Karmafaerie wrote:

Thomond Park is more than just a name.
It's an institution.
Rugby fans from all over the world know Thomond Park.

It's History.
It's Pride.
It's Munster.
And it's most definitely more than just a name.

I remember the first time going to a game at the stadium.
I remember the first time watching my father play there.
And I remember the first time I played there myself as a kid.
It's just special.

In Limerick we're famed with having a special bond with rugby, and with Munster.
That all centers around and incorporates Thomond Park.
Other clubs can do what they want with their stadiums.
They can name them after the Telly Tubbies for all I care.

This isn't other clubs, and it most certainly isn't just another stadium.

I know that the record is gone, but other teams are still going to be scared of coming to the home of Munster.
Do you think that they'd be as intimidated if they had to play in the Big Mac, Toyota, Bank Of Ireland, Tubs and Tiles Stadium?!!!:mad:
Do you think that the silence will have as much of an impact?!

This isn't Todds or Roches Stores that we're talking about here for Christ sake!
It's Munster!

I honestly believe that Munster have the best supporters in world rugby. Just like I honestly believe that Munster is the best club.
Why should we settle for what's acceptable for the others?

Thomond Park is Thomond Park!

'nuff said!!!

The correct pronunciation of Thomond is in fact "Two-mund". My point is that times change. If you feel the quality of our support will be affected by something as piddling as a name, then I do worry for the quality of support.

Karmafaerie

lecomte wrote:

The correct pronunciation of Thomond is in fact "Two-mund". My point is that times change. If you feel the quality of our support will be affected by something as piddling as a name, then I do worry for the quality of support.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong there.
Thomond Park was and is (and hopefully remain), Thomond Park.
The area has gone through a number of names .
The stadium hasn't.

And even if it had, the last time I checked, I was speaking in English!
As were you and everybody else here.

ninty9er

lecomte wrote:

This post was sponsored by the good people of Toyota.

Classic

Parsley

Maybe they could raise the money through drug smuggling or prostitution instead.

Karmafaerie

I don't see why if Leinster get to rely completely on the IRFU, that Munster can't expect the same.

ninty9er

^^
Would you WANT to be classified as a southside tosspot....IRFU my hole!!

RuggieBear

Karmafaerie wrote:

I don't see why if Leinster get to rely completely on the IRFU, that Munster can't expect the same.

huh?

Karmafaerie

RuggieBear wrote:

huh?

It's not a dig at Leinster, don't worry.

It's just that Leinster have in the past, and will in the future, have use of Landsdowne Rd.

The IRFU should be doing more for the other three provences IMO, in regards to stadiums.
Rugby is finally gaining some popularity in Connaught, and in Ulster it's going through a small revival (obviously it's stronger than ever in Munster!;) ).

rorymagory

I'm all for a name change. I'd prefer keeping the current name, but I think it needs to be done. I've gotten used to the idea.
I'd like Munster to be a powerhouse of european rugby. At the moment, we're there by the skin of our teeth. IMO, whats keeping us up there is a highly talented and motivated squad, amongst other things. We don't have big money behind us. We don't have the best players around, compared to other European teams.
To be able to compete with the bigger teams Munster need to make a big signing or two. Sure there's talent coming through from underage in the province, but I don't think it'll be enough to sustain us over the next few years. Current team is getting old. If we want to make big signings, we need to make big bucks, and if selling the naming rights to Thomond Park allows us to get that money, then so be it. Big experienced players to help bring the current young lads through. Changing the name won't change anything about the team or the ground. I'd prefer a strong Munster team to be challenging the big teams in European quarter-finals at Toyota Avensis Park than going to Thomond Park watching Munster get beaten by some 'galacticos' english/french team while crying into my pint remembering that one time a few years ago when we won the European Cup.

If there's another feasible way to make lots of money for Munster (or just get them out of debt) I'd probebly prefer it. Just my opinion, but Thomond Park is just a name.