Would compulsory military service sort out Ireland's social problems?

irishgeo

While sitting here, this thought flew into my head.

What if Ireland was to bring in a law stating that all young people had to do a year of military service before going to college. Lets say after the leaving cert and before college and only if you were 18 or over.All people medically unfit would be exempt. This would be decided by military doctors.

I think this would solve a number of problems

1. Obesity - It would get the the young people off their arses and away from the TV and xboxes and into a fitness regime. Even for a year it would do them the world of good.

2. Discipline - It would teach them some manners and to respect others, which would be useful to some of today's teenagers.

3. Binge Drinking - i think it would cut a lot this out as for the year i would recommend that only 1 weekend a month would be allowed off base.

4. It would give them some skills and perhaps an idea of what they want to do in college. You could have them train in various skills such as vehicle repair, cooking etc..

5. First Aid - Imagine having most of the young people being able to do first aid. It could save so many lives.

6. Driving Skills - They would learn how to drive carefully and with responsibility and perhaps they would not be allowed do their test with having done the military service.

7. Self Defence - they would pick up some self defence training as well as training on firearms, which would i think benefit them later in life.

I am sure their is many more bonuses which you may suggest.

I would put a no buy out clause so rich kids cant skip it.If Prince Harry and William can do it i don't see why our rich kids cant do it.

Its not likely anyone is going to get seriously injured as we are a neutral county and only do peace missions which young people would be exempt.

Just thought i throw this out and see what reaction it gets.

Sangre

Ridiculous idea but I thought this was particulary funny.

3. Binge Drinking - i think it would cut a lot this out as for the year i would recommend that only 1 weekend a month would be allowed off base.

Yeah, 1 weekened a month to drink. Yeah, that wouldn't encourage binge drinking.

PeakOutput

i dont know what problems it would solve but i do think it is a good idea in general

in germany(frankfurt anyway) there is compulsory military service or if you would rather not join the army or whatever you can do 3years(instead of 2 in the military) in some form of public service like working in creches(were i learned of it) etc

MooseJam

no it wouldn't solve anything, and i can say that without reading your post , lots of countries have compulsory service and they have problems too

Patricide

I think although itd be a good idea in theory, id be against it sorely because i dont want to HAVE to join the army. Mabey a stint of army training or fca membership but sending people who dont want to go to some foreign batteground where they have a chance of getting shot, i think thats just too far for my liking.

PeakOutput

Patricide wrote:

I think although itd be a good idea in theory, id be against it sorely because i dont want to HAVE to join the army. Mabey a stint of army training or fca membership but sending people who dont want to go to some foreign batteground where they have a chance of getting shot, i think thats just too far for my liking.

eh what part of neutral and voluntary peacekeeping do you have trouble with?

Voodu Child

"Well-balanced breakfast programs for children has created a generation of ultra-strong super-criminals; midnight basketball taught them how to function without sleep..."

What would military training do for the gougers of Ireland?

cson

Are you on crack OP?

As the saying goes, you can take the boy out of ballymun, but you can't take the ballymun out of the boy.

Dr Strange

PeakOutput wrote:

i dont know what problems it would solve but i do think it is a good idea in general

in germany(frankfurt anyway) there is compulsory military service or if you would rather not join the army or whatever you can do 3years(instead of 2 in the military) in some form of public service like working in creches(were i learned of it) etc

Just a quick correction. We have compulsory military service in the whole of Germany. It lasts about 10 months to a year nowadays and non-military service (you have the choice of either) about 13 months (in hospitals, home for the elderly, etc). It does sort out people, particularly if they haven't received proper discipline in their family homes. However, drinking is a major part of the nights in barracks during the service The only difference is that you cannot be excused the next morning or you will know exactly what it means to have a splitting headache What I mean is, the general mentality towards drink is that if you can drink and party you can also work. No problem being up till 4 or 5 in the morning and having some drink taken but you better be up at 6 (7 am) and be sober and ready for duty or else!

National service also gives you the opportunity to sort out your future by providing driving classes and full licences after completion, apprenticeships, paramedic qualifications and even a medical degree (however, you will have to sign up for quite a couple of years for military service as a doctor after graduating but the course is paid for). The work as non-military service personnel will open up possible courses in medical and health science courses, particularly if you didn't have good school grades. It is a way of demonstrating that you can do it successfully.

Overall, I do think that National Service would be a positive thing here but given the, as I see it, traditional lack of respect for authority, it may be hard to implement. It would get some of the kids off the streets though and maybe provide them with some goals for the future in an environment of comradship that is not based on anti-social or criminal actyivity.

Best,
Preusse

ctc_celtic

i think its not a bad idea, dont know if it would solve many or any problems.

think in many other countries you have to join the military if you dont go to college after school.

i reckon if your on the dole for more than a few months, you should be made to enlist, that would soon make plenty of lazy f**kers get jobs.

griffdaddy

irishgeo wrote:

7. Self Defence - they would pick up some self defence training as well as training on firearms, which would i think benefit them later in life.

Too right mate, it's a fúcking disgrace how many middle-aged people are walking around without basic weapons training these days.

o1s1n

You want to give scumbags firearm training?

PeakOutput

ctc_celtic wrote:

i reckon if your on the dole for more than a few months, you should be made to enlist, that would soon make plenty of lazy f**kers get jobs.

that is a ****ing great idea, even the fat bastards can work in the kitchens


also mandatory service would help by taking 18/19/20 year olds off the streets(in general) at a time when they would otherwise generally be ****ing around the place (like i am now) and that would stop a few problems i think


sorry for getting the german thing a bit off

An Citeog

I agree with the OP too. I think there are a lot of benefits in doing this. I've got friends from Germany, Norway, Finland etc who all did military service and thought that it was definitely worth it, both the health benefits and the discipline.

Re: the being sent to foreign battlegrounds, that doesn't happen. It's only the PDF that would be sent there rather than conscripts.

PeakOutput

o1s1n wrote:

You want to give scumbags firearm training?

the point is the scumbag is ,for want of a better word, beaten out of them in the army and they are forced to take responsibility and have respect for people.

also i think in bulgaria you can choose to do your time as a cop my supervisor when i was in the airport did that and said it definitely changed him

littlejp

PeakOutput wrote:

eh what part of neutral and voluntary peacekeeping do you have trouble with?

Where do you think Irish soldiers go on these Peacekeeping missions, South of France? They go to places like the Lebanon which are no holiday.

I can understand military service in places like Korea where they have the threat of war or invasion but for a supposedly neutral country like Ireland, I think it's a ridiculous idea. It might solve some problems but you would also be training people to be killers.

PeakOutput wrote:

also mandatory service would help by taking 18/19/20 year olds off the streets(in general) at a time when they would otherwise generally be ****ing around the place (like i am now) and that would stop a few problems i think

Why don't YOU join the army so...

tolosenc

PeakOutput wrote:

eh what part of neutral and voluntary peacekeeping do you have trouble with?

Voluntary - It's not the individual soldiers who volunteer, but they are rather volunteered by the Government/Armed Forces.

That, and being neutral peacekeepers doesn't mean you don't get shot at. The fact that the place you're in requires peacekeepers should surely click some element of danger with you, no?

PeakOutput

littlejp wrote:

Where do you think Irish soldiers go on these Peacekeeping missions, South of France? They go to places like the Lebanon which are no holiday.

yes but the ones that go VOLUNTEER to go.........i am open to correction here but as far as i know the units that are sent on the peacekeeping missions from the irish army sign up to do so ............if you don't sign up you dont have to go so it is a non issue

Why don't YOU join the army so...

i got to the final round of the cadetship recruitment a few years ago and didnt make it as they only took 3 people that year(out of 1200) i decided to not apply again as i "hadnt had enough fun" it is still an option if i dont get into college in september

That, and being neutral peacekeepers doesn't mean you don't get shot at. The fact that the place you're in requires peacekeepers should surely click some element of danger with you, no?

dont be a patronising prick

Nichololas

cson wrote:

Are you on crack OP?

As the saying goes, you can take the boy out of ballymun, but you can't take the ballymun out of the boy.

Yes, do we really want to train the knacks to use weapons properly?

littlejp

So you want to take other 18/19/20 year olds off the streets where just pissing about, yet you don't want to join because you haven't had enough fun yet. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me?

PeakOutput

littlejp wrote:

So you want to take other 18/19/20 year olds off the streets where just pissing about, yet you don't want to join because you haven't had enough fun yet. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me?

i never suggested i get any special treatment did i?

although if there was enlistment into the air corp they would need more officers and therefore i would have probably already been accepted so you have no point at all really

littlejp

My point is basically that it is not right to force ordinary people to join the army. Use it as a form of punishment instead of prison maybe. The last thing I would ever want to do is join the army (bar a Nazi invasion or the like).
You said yourself you didn't want to join because you want to have fun. I'm the same and I believe most people want to just have the craic and get out into the world when they hit 18, not join the army.

PeakOutput

littlejp wrote:

My point is basically that it is not right to force ordinary people to join the army. Use it as a form of punishment instead of prison maybe. The last thing I would ever want to do is join the army (bar a Nazi invasion or the like).
You said yourself you didn't want to join because you want to have fun. I'm the same and I believe most people want to just have the craic and get out into the world when they hit 18, not join the army.

my point is that at 18 alot of people are not mature enough to handle their new found freedom and that is where the problem comes from............now in my opinion it is not a huge problem but it is one that would be solved by national service.

also i have already said a choice to do some other type of service besides military is a good idea

biko

Only if it's coed.

WindSock

Good Idea. It can't hurt. There is a sincere lack of self discipline with all us young 'uns. We're all too namby pambied.

Mahatma coat

All in all a good idea, I was in the FCA as a Kid and after a while in the curragh even the 'hardest' of scummers can be broken down and turned into a functioning member of society.

I like the German system where you have the choice to concienciously (Sp)object tobeing shipped off over seas to your death, and join the civil defence etc

arybvtcw0eolkf

We don't need 'the draft'. We don't have an external or internal security threat. Internally gangland is a greater threat than anything else at the moment, soldiers can't deal with gangland.

Irish soldiers can, and are 'detailed' for oversea's service, both peacekeeping (old UNIFIL mandate) and peace enforcement (All missions since 2001).

'Peakout'Put', we already have a large officer cadre in the Defence Forces. We don't need more. In fact our officer number's are at 'emergency' strenght since a large officer recruitment drive between 1971-73.

yellowellie

Sounds like a great idea to me. Or a diluted version would be that only scumbags (who have gotten themselves into trouble) would have to go. Send the troublemakers off instead of handing out those anti-social behaviour order thingies.

Didn't Enda Kenny propose something like this before?

ctc_celtic

one fella i went to school with was a complete head case, but joined the army and says if wasn't for them straighting him out, he would be in jail or dead by now.

and theres plenty more like him in Ireland.

PeakOutput

Mairt wrote:

Irish soldiers can, and are 'detailed' for oversea's service, both peacekeeping (old UNIFIL mandate) and peace enforcement (All missions since 2001).

thanks for clarifying that..........do you think though that conscripts would be detailed for this type of deployment seen as on the website it says that peacekeeping is particularly challenging for a soldier.

'Peakout'Put', we already have a large officer cadre in the Defence Forces. We don't need more.

i understand that

arybvtcw0eolkf

PeakOutput wrote:

thanks for clarifying that..........do you think though that conscripts would be detailed for this type of deployment seen as on the website it says that peacekeeping is particularly challenging for a soldier.



i understand that

I wouldn't like to serve with concripts.

Ireland's fine peacekeeping reputation has been built on professional soldiers doing a professional job over the last 50 yrs. Lets keep it that way.

Irelands youth can be brought into line with tough government and judical policies. I also believe tackling crime in this country, ie sentencing criminals should be taken solely out of the hands of the judicary (sp'ing).

PeakOutput

hmmmmm interesting.......

ok i dont think there should be an option of sending people forced to serve overseas so if it works like that id be against it............


edited to remove wrong quote

arybvtcw0eolkf

PeakOutput wrote:

hmmmmm interesting.......

ok i dont think there should be an option of sending people forced to serve overseas so if it works like that id be against it............


edited to remove wrong quote

So would you trust a concript army to escort cash, prisoner's and explosives around the country?. Or to cover the host of other regimental duties carried out on a daily basis, ie the Mint out in Sandyford, Aras, Government buildings and the EOD team's on call daily?.

People in this country are of the impression that our Defence Forces sit around all day playing cards and sueing for loss of hearing, but in reality we're a very busy organisation.

Zillah

irishgeo wrote:

Lets say after the leaving cert and before college and only if you were 18 or over.All people medically unfit would be exempt.

Wow. You do realise that a large amount of people don't even do the leaving cert, and a much larger proportion don't go to college? We want people to go to college. Lets not delay them with mandatory military service.

On one hand I agree with your position. Mandatory military service would do many people a world of good. However, on a fundamental level I utterly protest the notion that my government can dictate what I do with a year or more of my life after basic education. Its a loss of liberty that I can not tolerate.

However, I do believe that freedom is not free. Democracy is not a very natural state of affairs and it takes a lot of diligent effort by a lot of people to maintain it. Happy citizens of western democracies get to live their happy lives because of the military service of other people. In that regard I feel mandatory military service is justifiable. However, given that Ireland is sitting in a very comfortable position where the chances of us being threatened militarily are laughable, I can't codone it. We are shielded by two of the most influential super powers in the world.

bolliwoodi

irishgeo wrote:

While sitting here, this thought flew into my head.

What if Ireland was to bring in a law stating that all young people had to do a year of military service before going to college. Lets say after the leaving cert and before college and only if you were 18 or over.All people medically unfit would be exempt. This would be decided by military doctors.

I think this would solve a number of problems

1. Obesity - It would get the the young people off their arses and away from the TV and xboxes and into a fitness regime. Even for a year it would do them the world of good.

2. Discipline - It would teach them some manners and to respect others, which would be useful to some of today's teenagers.

3. Binge Drinking - i think it would cut a lot this out as for the year i would recommend that only 1 weekend a month would be allowed off base.

4. It would give them some skills and perhaps an idea of what they want to do in college. You could have them train in various skills such as vehicle repair, cooking etc..

5. First Aid - Imagine having most of the young people being able to do first aid. It could save so many lives.

6. Driving Skills - They would learn how to drive carefully and with responsibility and perhaps they would not be allowed do their test with having done the military service.

7. Self Defence - they would pick up some self defence training as well as training on firearms, which would i think benefit them later in life.

I am sure their is many more bonuses which you may suggest.

I would put a no buy out clause so rich kids cant skip it.If Prince Harry and William can do it i don't see why our rich kids cant do it.

Its not likely anyone is going to get seriously injured as we are a neutral county and only do peace missions which young people would be exempt.

Just thought i throw this out and see what reaction it gets.

I AGREE 100% TODAYS YOUTH HAVE NO RESPECT

Mahatma coat

Mairt wrote:

So would you trust a concript army to escort cash, prisoner's and explosives around the country?. Or to cover the host of other regimental duties carried out on a daily basis, ie the Mint out in Sandyford, Aras, Government buildings and the EOD team's on call daily?.

Well yes I would expect the 'Conscripts' to do these things, obviously I wouldnt let a whole platoon of conscripts loose with guns all by themselves, but at the moment these duties are carried out by the PDF, so if we used the National Servicemen as well we could free up more actual soldiers to do the more difficult and important stuff, say a security escort for a bank delivery takes 15 men, we could send 5 Professional soldiers and 10 Servicemen who had passed a selection process.

the whole point of the exercise is to instill a sense of civic responsibility in the population, therefore if after you've trained and drilled and prepared them you're not willing to use them someone has failed somewhere.

Dunno what EOD is but I'd guess its probably one of the jobs you'd want to free up more real soldiers for.

People in this country are of the impression that our Defence Forces sit around all day playing cards and sueing for loss of hearing, but in reality we're a very busy organisation.

Oh I know I've seen it firsthand, that said tho theres a lot of 'hurryupandwait' too

watsgone

irishgeo wrote:

While sitting here, this thought flew into my head.

What if Ireland was to bring in a law stating that all young people had to do a year of military service before going to college. Lets say after the leaving cert and before college and only if you were 18 or over.All people medically unfit would be exempt. This would be decided by military doctors.

I think this would solve a number of problems

1. Obesity - It would get the the young people off their arses and away from the TV and xboxes and into a fitness regime. Even for a year it would do them the world of good.

2. Discipline - It would teach them some manners and to respect others, which would be useful to some of today's teenagers.

3. Binge Drinking - i think it would cut a lot this out as for the year i would recommend that only 1 weekend a month would be allowed off base.

4. It would give them some skills and perhaps an idea of what they want to do in college. You could have them train in various skills such as vehicle repair, cooking etc..

5. First Aid - Imagine having most of the young people being able to do first aid. It could save so many lives.

6. Driving Skills - They would learn how to drive carefully and with responsibility and perhaps they would not be allowed do their test with having done the military service.

7. Self Defence - they would pick up some self defence training as well as training on firearms, which would i think benefit them later in life.

If you make any one do anything I think they apprecaite it less.
100% of youth do not have respect- is wrong, false and feads the sterotypes.

RDA is often known for its drinking parties with alcohol being cheaper to purchase on camp.
While self defence is a good idea , putting guns into some peoples hands even for training is a bad idea.

First Aid can be learn in many other organisation, this should be taught to a proper standard in schools. As teachers often have no idea what to do, anyway there is not may medical units through ireland in the RDA or army.

Archeron

PeakOutput wrote:

my point is that at 18 alot of people are not mature enough to handle their new found freedom and that is where the problem comes from.........

The background I came from meant the vast majority of people who finished their leaving cert did not go on to college, but went straight into employment. Of the app 50 people who done their leaving at the same time as me, over 40 of them had full time jobs within 5/6 months of leaving school. These people, while some were dossers in school, became mature responsible members of society as soon as the need arose. Most of these people have now progressed well within their chosen professions or careers and now have families, mortgages and normal everyday adult lives.
I dont underdstand what this "new found freedom" you refer to is, as for most people (who follow the non college path) this progression means moving from being a kid in school with the life of Reilly, to being an adult with a job, sometimes a family, and responsibility. In the working class area I come from, this has always been the way it is, so I fail to see why people should be forced to join an armed force.
In particular, I take issue with the comment from someone that people should join the military if they dont go to college, because I can tell you for a fact, that just because someone doesnt go to college after the leaving, does NOT mean that they instantly become a scumbag who's out thieving and stealing all the time or a dosser, or a scrounger of any sort. In fact, I could go on to say that the people who start working at 17 or 18 years old are actually the people who need to mature quicker in order to keep the job they've secured and to support themselves in the world. Despite what sometimes appears to be popular belief, there are not many people who actually want to be on the dole.

SimpleSam06

irishgeo wrote:

What if Ireland was to bring in a law stating that all young people had to do a year of military service before going to college.

What, a draft? Ireland doesn't even need an army. The entire institution should be abolished. Its not like its worth a toss to us in this day and age.

pclancy

Yeah. Let other countries waste billions on their defence forces and train up their kids to kill others, be killed themselves and get involved in someone elses war. I dont want any part of it and id much rather see our money go towards something usefull. Its annoying enough to see the massive use of money to equip our fabulous army with shiny new helicopters and APCs without deciding EVERYONE has to join for at least a year and be brainwashed and shot at.

Theres much better ways to help youths that have had a bad start in life, shat on by society and labelled as a danger to society then throw them into an army.

digitally-yours

Here is an Idea !

what can be done with all the criminals

Link

arybvtcw0eolkf

SimpleSam06 wrote:

What, a draft? Ireland doesn't even need an army. The entire institution should be abolished. Its not like its worth a toss to us in this day and age.

Yea, damn right :rolleyes:

Crucifix

irishgeo wrote:

6. Driving Skills - They would learn how to drive carefully and with responsibility and perhaps they would not be allowed do their test with having done the military service.

Would you give back your licence until you'd completed your service?

When I was twenty (6 months ago), I wasn't on the streets ****ing about, I was (and still am) getting an education. I know what I want to do with my life, and I've set about doing it. I don't think I should have to give up a year of my life because a bunch of my peers don't have any respect or discipline.

Caliden

If this was in operation, I just wouldn't bother going to college.

Slow Motion

Had this very conversation with a mate over a pint in the pub a while ago, we both agreed that now that we were too old for it, it was a good idea ! I think I'm turning into me da

0ubliette

i actually think it might do some good for little knacker bastards to get some discipline forced into them. Might teach them the basic concept of respect for other people.

SimpleSam06

Mairt wrote:

Yea, damn right :rolleyes:

Well for a start, who's going to invade us? The UK on one side, the US on the other (and half the entire east coast is Irish by this stage). And even if someone did, what could our current defence forces do against even a half hearted effort by an invader? If recent events have taught us anything, its that asymmetrical warfare is the only chance a weaker nation has against a stronger nation, so our defence policy should reflect that.

Of course, in the unpleasant scenario of a genocidal invader, really a few nukes are the only insurance policy you need. And they would certainly be cheaper than our current military force.

The security guard work being carried out by the army should be replaced with a small, dedicated group of heavy weapons and tactics trained gardaí, and the navy and air force should be folded into the same group, and beefed up considerably. We are, after all, an island.

Mawg

Interesting idea, I think it's worth a try.

PeakOutput

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Well for a start, who's going to invade us? The UK on one side, the US on the other (and half the entire east coast is Irish by this stage). And even if someone did, what could our current defence forces do against even a half hearted effort by an invader? If recent events have taught us anything, its that asymmetrical warfare is the only chance a weaker nation has against a stronger nation, so our defence policy should reflect that.

Of course, in the unpleasant scenario of a genocidal invader, really a few nukes are the only insurance policy you need. And they would certainly be cheaper than our current military force.

The security guard work being carried out by the army should be replaced with a small, dedicated group of heavy weapons and tactics trained gardaí, and the navy and air force should be folded into the same group, and beefed up considerably. We are, after all, an island.

besides everything else we need an army to fulfill our obligations to the international agreements we have signed up to.......like peacekeeping for example.............if the army do nothing else besides peacekeeping it is a worthwhile investment imo

muletide

Mairt wrote:

We don't need 'the draft'. We don't have an external or internal security threat. Internally gangland is a greater threat than anything else at the moment, soldiers can't deal with gangland.

Irish soldiers can, and are 'detailed' for oversea's service, both peacekeeping (old UNIFIL mandate) and peace enforcement (All missions since 2001).

'Peakout'Put', we already have a large officer cadre in the Defence Forces. We don't need more. In fact our officer number's are at 'emergency' strenght since a large officer recruitment drive between 1971-73.

Tell me you are joking about our strength at the moment beng comparable to the Emergency. Do you have a full compliment in Galway? (I already know the answer)

PeakOutput

muletide wrote:

Tell me you are joking about our strength at the moment beng comparable to the Emergency. Do you have a full compliment in Galway? (I already know the answer)

i think he meant the amount of officers only not the general number of the defence forces