Studio 60 Cancellation?

dulpit

Hey, so does anybody out there watch Studio 60 on the sunset strip? Was gutted when i heard it was cancelled, anybody else? Watching it on TV3, not giving anything away but last week's was very very good...

I can kinda see whay it was cancelled, while it is (imo) a funny and snappy show, the way they kept on banging on about the whole christian right versus the liberal comedians for the first 5 or 6 episodes must have antagonised quite a large part of the american population...

is there any chance that the show could come back on another network? or is that it for studio 60 for good? Shame if it is...

S.M.B.

Got pretty poor ratings unfortunately and only lasted this long because the demographic that were watching the show were considered to be those with the most disposable income.

It's a shame though, probably my favourite show of the year!

little miss

And to think some crap tv programmes get to run for ever! Really enjoyed this. Definitely a shame... Hope its not the end of studio 60.

dulpit

I suppose it didn't help that NBC stuck it on hiatus for ages... It's odd that it failed though, a lot of big names involved in it... What'll Matthew Perry do now?

datk

dulpit wrote:

is there any chance that the show could come back on another network? or is that it for studio 60 for good? Shame if it is...

It's gone! The ratings were not good and it's was very expensive to make. They put the Black Donnellys on as a mid-season replacement with the idea that if it was popular it would stay as it was cheaper, but it died too. Apparently the only reason they're finishing out the season was that Aaron Sorkin's contract meant it would be just as expensive not to finish it as to complete the season.

It's a shame because I enjoyed it. NBC have another show 30 Rock (haven't seen it) which is a behind the scenes at a SNL type show, can't understand why they went with two similiar shows. I think 30 Rock is more of a comedy and half hour but still.

TarfHead

datk wrote:

It's gone! The ratings were not good and it's was very expensive to make. They put the Black Donnellys on as a mid-season replacement with the idea that if it was popular it would stay as it was cheaper, but it died too. Apparently the only reason they're finishing out the season was that Aaron Sorkin's contract meant it would be just as expensive not to finish it as to complete the season.

It's a shame because I enjoyed it. NBC have another show 30 Rock (haven't seen it) which is a behind the scenes at a SNL type show, can't understand why they went with two similiar shows. I think 30 Rock is more of a comedy and half hour but still.

I watched Studio 60 up until the hiatus and it was in rapid decline. I am told the ones since then are stronger as Sorkin became more involved in the teleplays but it's too late to save it.

I saw the first few of 30 Rock and thought it worth watching. It started on TV3 last week and continues tomorrow night. Alec Baldwin was, for me, a revelation. I never suspected he had comic potential.

is_that_so

TarfHead wrote:

I watched Studio 60 up until the hiatus and it was in rapid decline. I am told the ones since then are stronger as Sorkin became more involved in the teleplays but it's too late to save it.

I saw the first few of 30 Rock and thought it worth watching. It started on TV3 last week and continues tomorrow night. Alec Baldwin was, for me, a revelation. I never suspected he had comic potential.

Yes Studio 60 is better and has started to get a better shape even if it's too late. I think it has a couple more to run in the US . TV3 is about a week or so behind.
30 Rock, however, I am not so sure about, having watched the whole of season 1. While the jokes are good in places and some scenes are extremely funny, there is a nagging sense that it has been done before; NY, TV show, a lead full of angst (cute though) , a cast of other oddballs around her. I can't help feeling that some NBC head thought it would be great to combine Rhoda/MTM all in one. Even so IMO it hits more than it misses and it is better than the average US sitcom. It is worth a look when it's good.

Anto McC

I'm really enjoying Studio 60 and was gutted to hear it was cancelled. I heard it was because the ratings were not justifing the cost for making it.

Sleepy

I was a huge West Wing fan and knew Sorkin would pull this out of the bag eventually. Unfortunately NBC don't know as much about television as me. The last four episodes have been absolutely incredible. In particular K&R parts 1 - 3 are as good as the West Wing at it's peak. It's just a shame it took so long for the show to show it's true potential.

People have complained that the show within the show isn't funny enough, that it's not realistic enough and that it's been nothing but Right wing bashing and it's all nonsense imho. It doesn't matter if the show within the show's not incredibly funny or if the 'behind the scenes of a TV show' bits aren't documentary standard accurate because it's the characters that make us interested in a show and this show has them by the bucketload. With the exception of maybe two of the show's assemble, I'm interested in the characters to the point where I care about them. As for the 'Right Wing Bashing', the female lead is a fundamentalist Christian who argues pretty damn convincingly for that side of the argument. The show focuses on how divisive religion is at the moment and asks some big questions about it's involvement in things like national broadcasting, something which is important in these times imho.

This show has been cancelled because standards have dropped, because American (and American influenced) television has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and has all the intelligence of an amoeba. Hell, the show even deals with that pretty well...

Trode

I still like the show, but it has gone downhill. There are a few of your points I'd disagree with though.

Sleepy wrote:

People have complained that the show within the show isn't funny enough, that it's not realistic enough and that it's been nothing but Right wing bashing and it's all nonsense imho. It doesn't matter if the show within the show's not incredibly funny or if the 'behind the scenes of a TV show' bits aren't documentary standard accurate because it's the characters that make us interested in a show and this show has them by the bucketload.

It wouldn't matter if the fictional show was funny(God knows SNL isn't, and it's based on that), except that the script keeps drawing attention to it by having characters harping on about how funny it is and what a genius comedy writer Matt is. Every time that have one of the standard "It's a brilliant sketch, we should put it in!" "No, it's controversial!" arguments, and the sketch is stunningly bad and clearly just offensive for the sake of it, sympathy or agreement with the 'heroes' takes a nosedive.

Sleepy wrote:

As for the 'Right Wing Bashing', the female lead is a fundamentalist Christian who argues pretty damn convincingly for that side of the argument. The show focuses on how divisive religion is at the moment and asks some big questions about it's involvement in things like national broadcasting, something which is important in these times imho.

Except the Christian character is shown to be wrong or getting shafted at every hands turn. The characters openly admit her role is primarily to deflect claims of bias by the Christian right, and it's hard not to see that as true for both their fictional show and the actual show(this is getting confusing). Christian conservative types are constantly the 'villains' of the piece, trying to suppress the revelatory comedy of the heroes with their backward ways, whereas the 'opposing side', (for the sake of argument California liberal atheist types) never come off badly and almost never present problems. Can you imagine the show presenting a situation where, say, they wanted to include a really funny gay-bashing sketch, but were intimidated out of it by gay pressure groups? I can't see that happening.

Sleepy wrote:

This show has been cancelled because standards have dropped, because American (and American influenced) television has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and has all the intelligence of an amoeba. Hell, the show even deals with that pretty well...

And that's the problem, the show takes the same attitude that you just did "If you don't like this then you're an idiot fit only for Big Brother and Fox News", and that kind of arrogant, sneering, Emperor's New clothes approach is eventually going to alienate even it's fans. People smart enough to watch are smart enough to know when they're being patronised.

Sleepy

Trode wrote:

I still like the show, but it has gone downhill. There are a few of your points I'd disagree with though.

It wouldn't matter if the fictional show was funny(God knows SNL isn't, and it's based on that), except that the script keeps drawing attention to it by having characters harping on about how funny it is and what a genius comedy writer Matt is. Every time that have one of the standard "It's a brilliant sketch, we should put it in!" "No, it's controversial!" arguments, and the sketch is stunningly bad and clearly just offensive for the sake of it, sympathy or agreement with the 'heroes' takes a nosedive.

I suppose I can just suspend disbelief in that regard. I don't think the comic value of the show itself is important and just accept that if the cast say it's funny they believe it to be so.

Except the Christian character is shown to be wrong or getting shafted at every hands turn. The characters openly admit her role is primarily to deflect claims of bias by the Christian right, and it's hard not to see that as true for both their fictional show and the actual show(this is getting confusing). Christian conservative types are constantly the 'villains' of the piece, trying to suppress the revelatory comedy of the heroes with their backward ways, whereas the 'opposing side', (for the sake of argument California liberal atheist types) never come off badly and almost never present problems. Can you imagine the show presenting a situation where, say, they wanted to include a really funny gay-bashing sketch, but were intimidated out of it by gay pressure groups? I can't see that happening.

Initially I thought the same. However, John Goodman's role as the southern judge was quite good at balancing things out a little and there are endless pops taken at the smug superiority demonstrated by most of the cast. What really made me think they'd turned around on this, however, was K&R Part III. The character of Harriet is raised way out of the 'let's make fun of the Christian kid' position, admittedly far too late into the show's first season but presumably if the show had been let continue this was the direction it was going to take. The West Wing often introduced characters as almost caricatures of themselves initially before delving beneath the surface and I feel many of us, myself included, often do this in real life - see someone as a caricature of what you know about them before getting to know the real person.

And that's the problem, the show takes the same attitude that you just did "If you don't like this then you're an idiot fit only for Big Brother and Fox News", and that kind of arrogant, sneering, Emperor's New clothes approach is eventually going to alienate even it's fans. People smart enough to watch are smart enough to know when they're being patronised.

I don't think everyone should like this series, however I do have a problem with the fact television has become comercialised to the point where Big Brother and Reality-type shows are the majority of content simply because they're cheap. This forum is listed under the Arts category and I think that's something that's being lost at the moment. At the moment it seems almost like the BBC and HBO are only places one can expect to find television series that are produced to a high standard. (The Sci-Fi channel would get an honourable mention for Heroes and BSG).

ladylorenzo

Real shame....loved the show. Quirky intelligent humour. This show fails but yet millions still tune into the s***e that is American Idol?? Will the Americans ever wise up?

aidan_walsh

ladylorenzo wrote:

Will the Americans ever wise up?

Because God knows our lot over here are much better. Oh wait...

Woden

Initially I was not too pushed about its cancellation original hiatus as I thought it started off pretty poorly. When i went back to it though and watched the second half of the season I felt it had turned a corner and picked up. The current running arc I believe is strong and I do feel it has approached a more west wing style as of late with the snappy lines. Will be sorry it is not returning.

lostexpectation

caught two of the new 30 rocks shows and its 'show' seems to be as unfunny as studio 60's

ixoy

Sleepy wrote:

I suppose I can just suspend disbelief in that regard. I don't think the comic value of the show itself is important and just accept that if the cast say it's funny they believe it to be so.

OK but look at it from an audience's P.O.V. too - it's hard to relate to these characters if they're laughing at something we don't find amusing. It can be annoying as well when the characters seem to be talking about how they might be putting a clever social commentary into their sketch, with that implication that if you don't get it, you're the one at fault.

However, John Goodman's role as the southern judge was quite good at balancing things out a little and there are endless pops taken at the smug superiority demonstrated by most of the cast.

Saw that and yes, he was good. He took them down a notch and showed that there was an equally valid way of life than the smart-walk-and-talk quipping that the rest of the cast do. However, he was an exception to the norm. and didn't really represent the general direction the show took.

There was an article from the SF Gate on the show that was posted here a while back. It listed the show's flaws very articulately - the lack of comedy, the one-sided nature of the show and the fact that the characters can be hard to emote with, given their seemingly aloofness.
There's also an issue of scope - I found the series' premise somewhat limiting. Once you tackle certain obvious areas (censorship through the FCC for example or the right-wing influence on what can be broadcast), the options seemed to run out a bit whereas "The West Wing" appears to have a much broader set of possibilities.

Now I've just started watching "The West Wing" and already (halfway though the first season), I don't see the same problems plaguing it. The dialogue is witty and sharp without that same touch of condescension. The characters are more sympathetic, the stories broader and it's generally more enjoyable. Maybe "Studio 60.." got better after I left it (shortly after Goodman's appearance) but from what I saw it wasn't as good as it's been made out elsewhere (IMO of course).

At the moment it seems almost like the BBC and HBO are only places one can expect to find television series that are produced to a high standard. (The Sci-Fi channel would get an honourable mention for Heroes and BSG).

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree that nobody is producing high quality drama although I'm also nervous of the influx of reality TV.
For example, NBC also bring us "The Office", "My Name is Earl" and "Heroes" (it's NBC - not sci-fi). It also gives the highly enjoyable "Medium".
FOX brings us the smartly written "House" and so on.

Now I'll agree that there's a disproportionate amount of good shows on the cable networks as well (not just HBO but Showtime and FX too) but it's not all as bad or as dumb as you might feel.

kevmy

ixoy wrote:

Now I've just started watching "The West Wing" and already (halfway though the first season), I don't see the same problems plaguing it. The dialogue is witty and sharp without that same touch of condescension. The characters are more sympathetic, the stories broader and it's generally more enjoyable. Maybe "Studio 60.." got better after I left it (shortly after Goodman's appearance) but from what I saw it wasn't as good as it's been made out elsewhere (IMO of course).

Well first off your a lucky bustard starting The West Wing fresh. One of my all time favourite shows. Also possibly one of the few shows to jump the shark and then unjump it!! Don't worry though the first 4 seasons are fantastic and the last season and a half are pretty good to.

As for the John Goodman character in Studio 60, you will see from the West Wing that Sorkin uses that device a few times but it's nearly always good (Actually come to think of it he does the same thing with John Goodman in the West Wing). Bring in an outside character who starts out as a yokel but ends up smart and sensible.

In Studio 60 if given time Harriets character would have been shown to be one of the few characters who were truelly caring and kind. Sorkin although left-wing often highlights the cynical type of attitude prevalent in the left in America

Trode

Sleepy wrote:

I suppose I can just suspend disbelief in that regard. I don't think the comic value of the show itself is important and just accept that if the cast say it's funny they believe it to be so.

Suspension of disbelief is all well and good, but it's an uneasy fit with a show with such blatant allegorical intent."Look how quality television has to struggle against the mire of reality crap! This is what's happening to our culture!" it screams, while at the same time championing people who apparently have no idea what quality televison is.

Sleepy wrote:

Initially I thought the same. However, John Goodman's role as the southern judge was quite good at balancing things out a little and there are endless pops taken at the smug superiority demonstrated by most of the cast. What really made me think they'd turned around on this, however, was K&R Part III. The character of Harriet is raised way out of the 'let's make fun of the Christian kid' position, admittedly far too late into the show's first season but presumably if the show had been let continue this was the direction it was going to take. The West Wing often introduced characters as almost caricatures of themselves initially before delving beneath the surface and I feel many of us, myself included, often do this in real life - see someone as a caricature of what you know about them before getting to know the real person.

I haven't seen that one yet, and it does sound good so I'm kind of looking forward to it. The trouble with the John Goodman character, and to a lesser extent Harriet herself, is that no matter how well the trade witty banter, or how intelligently they argue their points, they're still 'the enemy', an obstacle to be overcome or a hardship to be tolerated. Noone learns or changes from their encounters with them, it's never even considered that they have a point, they're just let rant on until the main characters come up with a way around them to victory and carry on doing what they did before. I think I find that more frustrating then if they abandoned even the flimsy pretense of balance and just went all out for cartoonishly evil bad guys.

Sleepy wrote:

I don't think everyone should like this series, however I do have a problem with the fact television has become comercialised to the point where Big Brother and Reality-type shows are the majority of content simply because they're cheap. This forum is listed under the Arts category and I think that's something that's being lost at the moment. At the moment it seems almost like the BBC and HBO are only places one can expect to find television series that are produced to a high standard. (The Sci-Fi channel would get an honourable mention for Heroes and BSG).

Trust me, as an Arrested Development fan I know where you're coming from, but it's hardly a new thing; this was coined in 1958 and is as true now as it was then. As ixoy said, there's quite a bit of decent television around if you look hard enough. Plus, reality TV does seem to be on the decline a bit, with the increasing public disinterest in Big Brother and the rise of the slightly more tolerable 'talent contest' type of shows.

Sleepy

ixoy wrote:

Now I've just started watching "The West Wing"

You lucky bastard. Just don't do what I did and watch all 7 seasons in 3/4 months. Make 'em last!

Maybe "Studio 60.." got better after I left it (shortly after Goodman's appearance) but from what I saw it wasn't as good as it's been made out elsewhere (IMO of course).

TBH, it's only started to reach the level of the West Wing since coming back from hiatus which was far too late as the ax had already fallen. While it had (and has) it's shortcomings, it was a very enjoyable show(imho).

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree that nobody is producing high quality drama although I'm also nervous of the influx of reality TV.
For example, NBC also bring us "The Office", "My Name is Earl" and "Heroes" (it's NBC - not sci-fi). It also gives the highly enjoyable "Medium".
FOX brings us the smartly written "House" and so on.

Now I'll agree that there's a disproportionate amount of good shows on the cable networks as well (not just HBO but Showtime and FX too) but it's not all as bad or as dumb as you might feel.

Maybe a touch too much hyperbole on my side there in fairness. The Office I felt was okay (though I was never a huge fan of the original series either), My Name is Earl started well but waned before the first series even finished, Heroes kicks ass and House looks great (have only watched one episode). Medium doesn't look like my kind of thing.

I guess I just dislike the 'cheapening' of TV programs when it has such a massive influence on our society and, of late, it seems more and more like it's the quality stuff coming to the end of it's run or getting cut before it's been given a proper chance and the crud that's getting shown. :mad:

S.M.B.

Sleepy wrote:

You lucky bastard. Just don't do what I did and watch all 7 seasons in 3/4 months. Make 'em last!


TBH, it's only started to reach the level of the West Wing since coming back from hiatus which was far too late as the ax had already fallen. While it had (and has) it's shortcomings, it was a very enjoyable show(imho).



Maybe a touch too much hyperbole on my side there in fairness. The Office I felt was okay (though I was never a huge fan of the original series either), My Name is Earl started well but waned before the first series even finished, Heroes kicks ass and House looks great (have only watched one episode). Medium doesn't look like my kind of thing.

I guess I just dislike the 'cheapening' of TV programs when it has such a massive influence on our society and, of late, it seems more and more like it's the quality stuff coming to the end of it's run or getting cut before it's been given a proper chance and the crud that's getting shown. :mad:

Complaining about the 'cheapening' of TV programs and praising Heroes in the same post is a bit of a contradiction imo.