It's two weeks into the new diet...

cavanmaniac

Hey all it's about 2 weeks since I started into my new diet, trying to eat smaller meals more often. I think it's having a few benefits already but have a look at this and see what you all think:

Breakfast 8 or 9am: 3 shredded wheat with supermilk, organic yoghurt, protein shake (mixed with supermilk again)

Mid-morning 10 or 11am: Banana, apple, handful cashew nuts, hard boiled egg

Lunch 1.30: Toasted brown sandwich (shop bought) - tuna, sun dried toms, spring onion, swiss cheese OR chicken, mozzarella, tomato, mayonnaise

Afternoon 4.30: Reheated dish like chili con carne (just a jar of sauce, I add extra kidney beans and always brown the mince in olive oil) always with brown rice,
or a chicken with jar of sauce with brown pasta,
or salmon fillet with a sweet potato,
or wholemeal pitta with shop bought turkey breast, mixed lettuce, cherry toms, low fat caesar dressing, slice of emmental cheese

Evening 7.30: repeat of the above (I change about) or perhaps a salmon fillet (sometimes two, I love the buggers had the new Donegal catch ones last night and they're pretty good) fried in olive oil with a smear of butter and lo-salt. depending on what was eaten earlier I may have a baked potato here with a smear of butter as well

Night 10.30: Organic yoghurt, McCambridge bread (2 slices) with peanut butter, protein shake, maybe a few chashew nuts again.

Now I aleady realise the glaring lack of traditional veg in there so will rectify that by getting some of that steamed stuff in the shops - unless it's a no no for any reason.

That aside, what do all ye experts think am I doing ok or committing nutritional heresy along the way?

thegoth

What is your aim with this diet? If you want to lose weight, there seems to be alot of calories there

cavanmaniac

I've been working out for years and ran off alot of weight but as I've learned with doing tonnes of cardio and not eating six meals per day, this leaves it virtually impossible to put on muscle and lose that stubborn remianing body fat. I HAD lost body fat - lots of it - but was virtually a shrunken version of my former myself, i.e. still the same basic shape only smaller, i.e. still had the goddamn pot belly and wasn't seeing any muscle gain worth talking about.

So now I do a longer spell of cardio at less than 75% heart rate, and the weights and abs work as well, about a two hour workout three times per week.

I hope I've not gone from under to over-eating in one fell swoop!

My aim is to lose body fat and have a nice, sculpted, muscular shape. I wouldn't mind being a bit bigger bulk-wise but not much, not really interested in looking like a body builder.

ali.c

I wouldnt worry about looking like a body-builder it doesnt happen by accident :P Anyhow your diet looks good, not so sure why your using jars of sauces homemade ones tend to nicer and cheaper and better for you. You dont give your stats so its hard to guess what type of cals you are aiming for. Steamed veg? Normal veg including frozen will do. The best way to prepare it is to steam it but you can stir fry or boil it also. You'll lose some of the benifits that way but its better than no veg!
That still is quite small though, your diet looks pretty solid IMHO!

P.S. congrats on the weight loss so far

justsomebloke

I think your diet maybe just a bit to carb heavy. I would try and cut back on having so much carbs in all your meals and instead try and put some more good fats in there as you seem to be lacking on the fats compared to protein and carbs.

again as ali said as you haven't given your stats it is very hard to try and judge your diet fully. Also try getting a fitday.com account and see what your average average daily % breakdown is

cavanmaniac

Not sure about my stats to be honest it's been ages since I got 'em checked down the gym. I'm just over six foot and weight 13st 9 approx. This is quite an increase in weight from when the cardio was at its peak, at one stage I was down to 12st 4. At the same time, body fat was down to 14% from 24% starting off but alas, still the pot belly and no real muscle gains as such.

In the interim I've tapered off the cardio and increased the weights so I'm hoping that's accounted for a good part of the increase in weight (people I haven't seen for a while still remark on my noticeable weight loss so like I said, I'm hopeful), although I'm sure there's an increase in body fat as well, hence the new diet, programme and general approach!

I was worried about the carbs alright jsb, it's just that I've always loved potatoes, rice and pasta.

By good fats, what do you mean? I've seen avocado mentioned and olive oil, but what else? I see some people eating soy sauce with their chicken fillets or teriyaki, are they in the good fats bracket?

Anyway, I'm two weeks in so am aware I'll make a few mistakes before getting it right.

ali.c

sources of good fats include, oily fish, nuts, seeds and oils. i never heard of soy sauce being anything plus it has loads of salt, so if its not in your diet i wouldnt put it in. On the carb front if you time it properly i.e. post workout its cool! Or you could just 1/2 your portion or something?

Sleepy

A couple of very easy things to fix in your diet. Won't make a huge difference but every little helps:

Stop frying mince in olive oil. Even the good oils are bad for you when they're heated (confusing I know) and there's plenty of fat in even the leanest mince to fry the rest of it with.

Instead of frying the salmon, try putting it in the oven in a sealed tinfoil pouch with a little water, some lemon juice and some veggies. Far healthier and WAY tastier (even if it does take an extra 10 / 15 minutes, it's WELL worth it!).

Like ali.c said, learn to make sauces yourself (e.g. tin of tomatoes, mince, garlic, basil and some chopped veg for Bolognese) instead of using the jars. Most of them are laced with sugar, salt, preservatives and other generally crap stuff for you.

cavanmaniac

Noted on the olive oil and oven cooking the salmon. I'm a very recent adoptee to olive oil so what ways do people use it? Drizzled over pasta is one way I know of, what's the intersting others?

The jars I'm afraid were to save time prep wise. Are they all bad or are there some that are ok, I really don't like the idea of being a dustbin for some company's crappy ingredients especially as I'm putting in so much effort in other ways.

On the nuts being good fats, does that mean it's okay to much quite a few of them despite their very high fat content? I'd quite happily neck a load of cashews and pine seeds etc but I'm assuming you have to moderate here too, judging by other peoples' diets I've read here. And any exscuse to eat more salmon is fine by me!

Thanks all btw, this is very helpful.

cavanmaniac

**bump**

Just wondering if anyone else can offer more feedback?

Sleepy

Nuts are high in good fats but like you said yourself, you do need some degree of moderation with them. As they're high in calories (being high fat), too many will throw your diet way out of whack. Also be sure to eat the non-salted ones.

Personally I don't know of any of the processed sauces that are healthy tbh. You can make a pasta sauce in about ten/fifteen minutes with a tin of tomatoes, some garlic basil and any veg you want to throw in. Alternatively, make a big batch of bolognese or whatever on the weekend and freeze it in individual portions.

cavanmaniac

**bump II**

I'm still ploughing on but with a few modifications based on the always sound and helpful, not to mention generous advice on here.

I'm now trying to cut out carbs except on gym days. I'm also aiming for higher carb intake during the afternoon on gym days - breads, bananas, pasta, rice, and not so much after my evening workout which finishes about 9.30. Should I take some carbs after the workout too, yes?

I've started using organic tomato and veg sauce now as a base for bolognese, add a bit of garlic and off we go. I checked the label. No salt. No sugar. Am I in in the clear here now??

Overall I must admit I'm getting a bit worried. This new diet and associated sacrifices marks my last big concerted effort to acheive my ideal shape and if it doesn't work I can see myself just jacking it all in because if the results ain't coming I don't see the point in arranging my life around it like I do - far easier to do a bit of cardio and go home. At present my arms have thickened slightly, chest has firmed up a little more along with legs but I still have this godawful, unsightly and frankly bloody depressing belly that doesn't look, in my possibly paranoid yet surely not delusional opinion, to be going anywhere fast.

I'm not giving up yet though. I bought myself a ludicrously tight fitting top just recently and am determined to wear it some time without looking like Dafyd the only gay in the village in one of his less subtle outfits.

ali.c

there was an article on t-nation about carb cycling that may be of interest to you http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1628994
Its hard to gauge progress, i would really really recommend taking photos of yourself every 2-4 weeks. The small changes occur regularly and are easy to miss!! It stops you from getting disheartened. Also if you are not seeing the changes you want to see, you need to be completely honest with yourself about your efforts in and out of the gym.

Just wondering why you dont just use tomatoes for the sauce? Its way cheaper, anyhow if the label looks okay and it has no hydrogenated fats that its all good.

Hermione*

I drizzle a little olive oil on crusty bread instead of using butter; it might not be the healthiest thing to eat but it's better for you than butter and it's tasty. Everything in moderation

I find it very handy to cook a big pot or two at the weekends and then freeze everything into individual portions so I have dinners ready on the nights I can't be bothered cooking. I'd usually have some soup, madras curry, and bolognaise or pasta sauce in the freezer. It's more convenient and economical than cooking every night and it means there's no need to eat processed food.

Hang on in there; with patience and determination, it's possible

cavanmaniac

Yeah I'm not ready to roll over and die just yet but I am starting to get a little disheartened. This was what was happening a few months ago before I started to give it a whirl with this diet and really re-apply myself, I'm fearful I'll see no benefits and get lazy again.

I think I am pretty well behaved in and out of the gym. 2 hr-ish workout 3 times per week, half hour of >75% HR cardio, weights for an hour, 20 mins abs.

As you can see, I'm sticking to the diet almost religiously, drink loads of water, I have a few pints and a cheat meal at the weekend and that's about it. I consider myself zealous to the point where my mates slagging me off about being so fastidious and organised, but they're not gymmies so any sort of strictness with one's diet and they think you're a big Mary anyway.

Thanks for the link ali.c I'll digest it later as on first read it's a bit complicated.

daveirl

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ali.c

cavanmaniac wrote:

Thanks for the link ali.c I'll digest it later as on first read it's a bit complicated.

hehe yeah it was a bit much for my brain too. Tbh there are some great articles over on t-nation and MWA but tbh i think alot of it is very regmented for my liking. Theres loads of great info but its so easy to get caught up in the little details and start obessing!

Money Shot

cavanmaniac wrote:

I think I am pretty well behaved in and out of the gym. 2 hr-ish workout 3 times per week, half hour of >75% HR cardio, weights for an hour, 20 mins abs.

Just a thought, but I'm not surprised you get fed up after a few months, ditch it and get lazy again. Doing 2hr sessions can be very hard to stay motivated for - the thought of it, the time it takes plus shower/travel etc. I used to do long sessions, but found I stick better to a routine with shorter, more focused and intense sessions. If I'm having a bad day in the gym, i'll do stuff I like and leave early.
You could cut the 20 minute ab out or even once a week - do you really need this much ab work when they get worked hard enough on other lifts ?
If weightloss isn't your main current goal, you could cut down the three sessions of cardio also.
I'm just saying that you are trying to do everything at once - which is difficult. Maybe concentrate on weights for a month - three one hour sessions, one cardio session a week, one ab session a week. The following month, concentrate on you're cardio - three cardio sessions, and much smaller, intense circuit weights sessions. It's just a thought to keep the interest alive and ensure you keep it up. Change your program each month to concentrate on something particular goal.

Transform

Money Shot wrote:

Just a thought, but I'm not surprised you get fed up after a few months, ditch it and get lazy again. Doing 2hr sessions can be very hard to stay motivated for - the thought of it, the time it takes plus shower/travel etc. I used to do long sessions, but found I stick better to a routine with shorter, more focused and intense sessions. If I'm having a bad day in the gym, i'll do stuff I like and leave early.
You could cut the 20 minute ab out or even once a week - do you really need this much ab work when they get worked hard enough on other lifts ?
If weightloss isn't your main current goal, you could cut down the three sessions of cardio also.
I'm just saying that you are trying to do everything at once - which is difficult. Maybe concentrate on weights for a month - three one hour sessions, one cardio session a week, one ab session a week. The following month, concentrate on you're cardio - three cardio sessions, and much smaller, intense circuit weights sessions. It's just a thought to keep the interest alive and ensure you keep it up. Change your program each month to concentrate on something particular goal.

I agree - hit the weights hard 3 days per week for about 40mins plus abs after and do cardio for 30mins on 3 other days.

I do plenty of cardio, i lift as heavy as i can and always looking to get stronger yet do not look like a bodybuilder.

cavanmaniac

Funny enough the time I spend there actually doesn't bother me to be honest, I've been doing sessions of 2 hr+ for 3/4 years with no hassle. I feel best knowing I've done a bit of everything because this helps keep me strong across a variety of areas, I find if I leave something out for a few sessions it's cruel when I go back as my strength has dropped at the particular exercise.

The clear and (all too) present danger to my continued enthusiasm is the jelly belly that seems most reluctant to, well, pardon my vernacular, f**k the hell off.

PS: Thanks for that daveirl, I was kinda hoping someone with a bit of experience would tell me that it takes a while for certain parts to fall into line with others. I live in hope. Is one ab workout a week really enough, yeah? Wouldn't mind saving those 20 mins if so...

Monsey shot - the cardio is not for weight loss per se, hence the <75% rate. I'm happy enough with my overall appearance so am doing this cardio to keep burning fat as I thought this necessary to shift the belly and tone up overall. I hit this rate doing weights as well, according to the HR monitor I use, so I thought I was doing a good amount of cardio at the right rate for belly-burning feats extraordinaire?????

Sleepy

Unfortunately the gut is the last place most of us see any fat loss. If you could come up with a sure-fire way of targetting fat loss from the gut that didn't involve lipo, you'd be a very rich man!

cavanmaniac

The human body is a weird thing. The belly is the only area I'm carrying real fat. Arms and legs are toned, not over muscled but toned certainly, chest getting there - but belly is a right bastard! My family body shape etc. would lean towards body fat, none of us are 'naturally' muscular like some people.

Anyway, last questions: I'm definitely not shooting myself in the foot by doing the 20 min abs once or twice a week instead of all three sessions, no?

And: Is it unheard of for some people to do absolutely all the right things diet and exercise-wise, and still have a pot belly that defies all nutritional and workout science? (He asks half in dread....)

daveirl

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cavanmaniac

daveirl wrote:

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I should be indebeted to you if you could, kind sir.

I'm defo one of those 'belly first' people. In fact if I was 2 stone weight, I'd still have good 'ole belly as my permanent friend, I'm certain.

Sure I'll keep fighting the good fight anyway.

Hermione*

Weight definitely goes on the stomach first, and off it least too! I'm a size ten, and considered pretty thin by most people, but I still have a bit of a tummy. All except a very lucky few are like that. Eventually the exercise an healty eating will pay off

daveirl

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cavanmaniac

Well, I certainly had a bit of an eye opener this evening.

I've been getting body fat readings off an electronic machine you hold in front of your chest. Best ever to date was 14%, long time ago when I was thrashing the tar out of myself with really a really tough 45 mins cardio regime 3 times a week. Sure I'd lost body fat but as I said before, I wasn't the shape I wanted to be and was basically a shrunken version of myself.

Latest reading with this electric yoke was 17% about a fortnight ago. I'd been expecting an increase as I'd been losing alot of interest in the gym.

Then got the calipers reading for the first time this evening. Brace yourselves. 22%.

ARGGHHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHH!

I'm stunned. Will get another reading in about three weeks and see if the trend is downwards or upwards or what's going on. Curiously, instead of feeling defeated, I'm more goddamn determined than ever! But that's some mountain of bodyfat to have to tackle after about four weeks approx of half hour cardio sessions at 75% HR.

And my diet is at least 90% clean, I swear to God.

ali.c

Calliper and electronic body fat readings can vary alot. Its unlikely that you put on 5% body fat. Tbh the best thing is to just take one method (callipers are more repeatable) and go with that.

phil

Even caliper readings are not accurate unless done with real precision as far as I know. It's hard to get an accurate body fat reading from yourself anyway without experience, it takes practice to do.

The main thing is to not focus on the actual numbers, but the trend. Be consistent in measuring it (i.e. use one method, not an electronic one one week and a calipers the next and if you're using a calipers try and be as consistent as possible). Then obviously, if you're working out and lifting you're looking for a downward trend in the readings.

If you're getting a third party to do the measurements for you, try and make sure it's the same person if they're using a calipers and try and make sure they've done it lots of times before. There's plenty of room for error and at the end of the day my advice would be not to focus on the number, but be consistent in measuring it and focus on the trend (i.e. going up, down or staying the same).

daveirl

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cavanmaniac

Cheers people. I was wondering if the reading was accurate at all, given the divergence between the electronic reading and calipers, but didn't want to say in case I looked like I was trying to delude myself.

I know I have increased blubber on my tummy in recent months but my chest, shoulders and arms have toned up to the degree that people are commenting on them, and I've alsdo been doing dedicated leg work with weights as well, along with the cardio, so the body fat reading was something of a shock.

I'll just keep working away, stay clean and committed, and hopefully the results will come.