Penalty points for Litter

gyppo

Anyone heard of this new proposal - throwing litter out of your car will incur a penalty point on your licence.

Living in a great nation of clots, I'm delighted to see some initiative been taken to clamp down on those who litter - take a walk down any main road, ring road, bypass or boreen to see the amount of crap that's been dumped.

However, why not enforce the current legislation on littering that is already in existance, rather that bringing in parrallel legislation via the penalty point scheme.

I cannot see how littering has become a motoring offence.

Andrewf20

Agreed. I cant see why a fine cant do instead.

Worst I ever saw was a car a few years ago dropping a full bag of McDonalds foods out the rear window.

crosstownk

gyppo wrote:

why not enforce the current legislation on littering that is already in existance, rather that bringing in parrallel legislation via the penalty point scheme.

I cannot see how littering has become a motoring offence.

I heard this idea on the news last night, it doesn't make sense to me. I'm all in favour of preventing/deterring littering, but doing so through the penalty point system makes no sense to me.

egan007

Bad idea because Penalty points were introduces to promote road safety.

Littering, while a bad problem, is not a road safety issue.

Owen

I wouldn't be a bit worried. The idiots that thought this was possible, the intellectually-challenged that actually came up with this concept, are the tidy towns committee. It's a littering offense, not a driving offense, and should be dealt with accordingly.

golden

Agreed on this. Think that littering should impose a fine even a hefty fine but not penalty points as it really nothing to do with driving. Do you get penalty points for walking too fast????

Our man in Havana

I just knew the greens in govt would be trouble.

mickoneill30

Bond-007 wrote:

I just knew the greens in govt would be trouble.

Why? Was it the greens in govt that proposed this?

Our man in Havana

No, but they will surely try to implement it as gormless said last night on the news.

_feedback_

Strange alright ... really can't see how littering can be a motoring offense. Fair enough, as someone posted , somebody throwing a big bag of McD's out the window is dangerous.... But I've never encountered any big problems with litter from cars .. the odd cigarette butt maybe.

A fine definately, but not points.

KTRIC

egan007 wrote:

Bad idea because Penalty points were introduces to promote road safety.

Littering, while a bad problem, is not a road safety issue.

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

prospect

KTRIC wrote:

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

Full of s.h.i.t












Not you, the nappy?

gyppo

KTRIC wrote:

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

I'd hazard a guess though that the impetus behind this is environmental, and sfa to do with road safety.

Drax

KTRIC wrote:

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

Aye... Half a carton of milk! F*ckin skangers...
(good shot though )

KTRIC

prospect wrote:

Full of s.h.i.t



Not you, the nappy?

It wasn't me (luckily) but I believe the nappy was full.

Drax

KTRIC wrote:

It wasn't me (luckily) but I believe the nappy was full.

I someone threw a crappy nappy out their car window and it hit me on the bike I would take great pleasure in following them home, and taking a massive dump on their bonnet. Also leave a little note in their windscreen window reminding of why there was a large turd on their car.

blastman

While I would be all in favour of stiffer punishments for littering e.g. cigarette butt out the car windows means you get a lit cigarette jammed up your left nostril + thousand Euro fine, this has nothing to do with motoring and shouldn't be a points offence.

Drax

blastman wrote:

While I would be all in favour of stiffer punishments for littering e.g. cigarette butt out the car windows means you get a lit cigarette jammed up your left nostril + thousand Euro fine, this has nothing to do with motoring and shouldn't be a points offence.

Agreed.

Wossack

KTRIC wrote:

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

read this thread and thought of the 'Worst thing thats ever hit you from the car in front' thread from the motorbike section (search cant find it though :mad: )

penalty points wont do anything though, it'll just go the way of mobile phone use - stop making more laws, start enforcing current ones

egan007

KTRIC wrote:

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

Well I under stand from that point of view -
I would however being in favour of a 100Euro fine rather than PP

seamus

Well, obviously the points would only be applied where someone was caught ejecting litter from their vehicle, and not for just littering anywhere.

As KTRIC says, ejecting litter from a moving vehicle is a safety issue for motorcyclists (and to a lesser extent cyclists), though I wouldn't say it's a huge one.

As pointed out, it's enforcement that's the problem, not the law. The fines for littering are huge, as they are for dumping, but the chances of getting caught are minimal. So too would it be with this.

R.O.R

egan007 wrote:

Well I under stand from that point of view -
I would however being in favour of a 100Euro fine rather than PP

From memory I think the current fine is €125 for littering from a vehicle. Have seen a couple of fines come in for this and been amazed at the cost.

Gran Hermano

Whilst I am not condoning littering and support serious fines for offenders,
hell give them a €500 fine for 1st offense, what the hell has this got to
do with motoring and road safety? If one throws a piece of paper from their
car they get penalty points, but if they park and leave their car and then
drop some paper they just get the fine. Only in Ireland would we put up with
a proposal like this.What about cyclists and pedestrians, whys should they
get a lesser penalty than motorists?

What's next, getting penalty points for not having a TV license or not having
your do dog on a leash?

barryfitz

KTRIC wrote:

Are you kidding ?? I thought you being a biker you'd know that littering from a moving vehicle is fairly dangerous.

Ask any biker and I'm sure they'll have several stories about getting hit with things being thrown from cars including lit fags, cans and even nappies.

Is it anymore dangerous than someone throwing a lit fag or any other rubbish from the footpath.!!! Should a person get penalty points for any type of littering in that case?

Lord Nikon

There's nothing worse than a fresh nappy to the face.

unkel

Gormley welcomes points for litter idea

What a load of rubbish

gyppo

unkel wrote:

Gormley welcomes points for litter idea

What a load of rubbish

How many times have we seen this - instead of enforcing current legislation, lets come up with another way of being seen to address a problem??
Surely if a guard see's a person littering from a car, can they not apply the terms of the current litter act. FFS, section 27 of this act specifically relates to vehicles.
http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza12y1997.6.html#zza12y1997s27

seamus

barryfitz wrote:

Is it anymore dangerous than someone throwing a lit fag or any other rubbish from the footpath.!!!

Yes it is.

There was a big thread on it but rubbish thrown out a car window, particularly cigarettes, have a tendency to hit a biker that's driving behind you, no matter what way you throw it out your window (it has to do with air currents).

Victor Meldrew

elviscostello wrote:

. But I've never encountered any big problems with litter from cars .. the odd cigarette butt maybe.

A fine definately, but not points.

I think it's a great idea, but as always it won't be enforced.

Litter is repugnant and a sign that you don't care about your society. anyone i've ever seen flicking anything out of a car window is usually a low-life who should be off the road.:mad:

Gran Hermano

Victor Meldrew wrote:

anyone i've ever seen flicking anything out of a car window is usually a low-life who should be off the road.:mad:

And with regard to pedestrians that litter, do you propose they should
be off the path? Nothing but discrimination against motorists yet again.

gyppo

Victor Meldrew wrote:

I think it's a great idea, but as always it won't be enforced.

Litter is repugnant and a sign that you don't care about your society. anyone i've ever seen flicking anything out of a car window is usually a low-life who should be off the road.:mad:

At the end of the day, littering is totally seperate from motoring related offences - so why should there be a penalty point applied to motorist's that litter? There is already legislation in place to deal with littering - why not enforce that?

barryfitz

seamus wrote:

Yes it is.

There was a big thread on it but rubbish thrown out a car window, particularly cigarettes, have a tendency to hit a biker that's driving behind you, no matter what way you throw it out your window (it has to do with air currents).

Perhaps I should edit.

Is it anymore dangerous than someone throwing a lit fag or any other rubbish from the footpath In front of a biker.

ballooba

The motivation behind this proposal is nothing to do with road safety. We already have enough unenforced penalty point offences.

The approach to road safety in this country is a disgrace. The RSA must spend hundreds of thousands on silly tv ads every year that people just laugh at. That money would be far better spent on proper education initiatives rather than cheap tv drama.

DonJose

I'd like to see a large fine plus a couple hours community service cleaning the roads. OT : If I had my way I'd also like to see dole scroungers do a couple of hours litter collection every week. The waster next door to my old home hasn't worked a day in the last 20 years, this doesn't stop him spending all day in the bookies. Rant over.

Our man in Havana

Cue a high court challenge to this mad idea. It is not a traffic offence.

egan007

unkel wrote:

Gormley welcomes points for litter idea

What a load of rubbish

To be fair to John Gormley he is being mis quoted on this forum...

"The Minister for the Environment, John Gormley, has said that he thinks that punishing drivers who litter from their car with penalty points is a good idea in principle. "

and he was just answering a reporters question...

"The idea was raised by an anti-litter group which wants one penalty point to be imposed on every person who throws litter from a car or truck window."

Saying you agree with something in principle means that you agree that the problem exists and you recognise new measures are needed, it's not a total agreeement on the suggested implementation.

ballooba

John Gormely is heavily implicated in this madness. He actually said he is considering talking to Noel Dempsey about it. It's primarily an environmental issue, i.e. an issue for his Department not Dempsey's.

Guy:Incognito

Andrewf20 wrote:

Worst I ever saw was a car a few years ago dropping a full bag of McDonalds foods out the rear window.

If anyone knows the mill centre in Clondalkin, the state of th eplace is a disgrace. McDonalds pretty much have a person fuill time out picking up mounds of crap beign dropped out the windows of cars because people are too lazy t owalk over to the bin.

Personnaly I dont care if laws like this are brought in, the only way it will effect me is that (hopefully) i'll see less litter on the streets.

Cat-o-nine-tails is another method I'd like to see brought in.

mikemac

DonJose wrote:

I'd like to see a large fine plus a couple hours community service cleaning the roads. OT : If I had my way I'd also like to see dole scroungers do a couple of hours litter collection every week. The waster next door to my old home hasn't worked a day in the last 20 years, this doesn't stop him spending all day in the bookies. Rant over.

I suggest you read Major Guiliani's book. He got long-term unemployed people to work cleaning parks and do other useful work.

That had some great ideas in New York!

Kalashnikov_Kid

What if a passenger is caught littering, I suppose similar to the seatbelt law the driver would take the bullet.

That would be pretty harsh...

Our man in Havana

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote:

What if a passenger is caught littering, I suppose similar to the seatbelt law the driver would take the bullet.

That would be pretty harsh...

Nope, why should the driver take the hit? The idea won't fly anyways. There is already enough laws out there to deal with the problem. Just enforce them.

ballooba

Stekelly wrote:

Personnaly I dont care if laws like this are brought in, the only way it will effect me is that (hopefully) i'll see less litter on the streets.

Unless you are killed or injured in a RTA because one of the few Traffic Corp Gardai in the country was off dealing with an environmental issue instead of tackling the bad behaviour of the driver who hits you.

colm_mcm

maybe they should bring in penalty points for people who don't buy a TV licence, it makes about as much sense as bringing them in for littering

ballooba

colm_mcm wrote:

maybe they should bring in penalty points for people who don't buy a TV licence, it makes about as much sense as bringing them in for littering

An even closer analogy is to bring in penalty points for kerb crawling or drug dealing.

Miami Vice meets CHIPS.

colm_mcm

yeah, the thought of higher insurance and possible court appearance would make you think about dealing drugs!

cabla

good idea in a way, but is penalty points not supposed to be about how crap you drive?? Like imagine getting banned because you threw 12 peices or litter out the window?

Gran Hermano

Will I get penalty points if I have a puppy in the back of my car but don't
have a dog license?

colm_mcm

I think the puppy is allowed as long as there's a dog with a full dog license present, or if said dog is on their second provisional license.

Gran Hermano

Wasn't there an amnesty a few years back giving all puppies a full license
regardless of whether they'd been in a car or not?

If the Irish government keeps adding non-motoring offences to the list of 'crimes' warranting penalty points I'll be exchanging my Irish license for
a UK one.

colm_mcm

no, you're thinking of when they upgraded black and white dog licenses to colour ones in the 80's.

Our man in Havana

Gran Hermano wrote:

If the Irish government keeps adding non-motoring offences to the list of 'crimes' warranting penalty points I'll be exchanging my Irish license for
a UK one.

Can't and won't happen. It would be clearly unconstitutional. Penalty points can only be used for traffic offences. Not a snowballs chance in hell of it being expanded to cover non traffic offences.