Colin Mcrae V FORZA 2

jodolan

I know because there are so different its going to be quite hard to compare the 2 but since they are the only 2 decent racing sims out i thought we could do something on it .

for me anyway i like and dislike parts of each (THESE OPINIONS ARE BASED ON MY OWN VIEWS AFTER 1 WEEK OF GAME PLAY ON FORZA AND 1 DAY ON COLIN ).

Graphics Colin Mcrae is miles better Forza graphics wise is a massive dissapointment id give colin 8/10 forza 6/10

Detail ( parts etc ) the level of detail in forza blows colin away the amount of different options and combinations is endless , not as many upgrades as id like but pretty impressive . Colin has just as much tuning wise but as far as i know you cant design your own car buy parts etc like in forza . in this i give forza 8/0 CMC 5/10

Driving experience: i suppose most important of all for a racer is how do they drive well Forza is track based so driving lines controlled braking etc are needed where as with CMC its hell for leather rally . Personally ive gotten quite bored with FORZA but i am stuck in between unlocking the next set of tracks so it might pick up once i get into it . CMC is insane but that can get quite annoying the track is very tight and its easy to clip something on the edge of the road and end up on your head . It really is personal choice track racers wont like Colin and rally racers will be bored still by Forza .

For me its rally so for me colin gets 8/10 and forza 7/10 .

Handling is realistic for both in there fields rally and track are completly different that neither can be considered wrong , some annoying things all right are in forza ive noticed things liek spinning off for no reason and in Colin it can get a bit out of controll i give both 7/10 very good but with faults .

Best thing about each game
colin putting on either bumper cam or bonnet can and putting the boot to the floor the sence of speed is like nothing ive every seen before .made even better on a 42" HD with a steering wheel .

Forza doing up the cars has given me the most joy i find the races slow and repetitive so i reckon ive spent more time in painting my car than driving it

bad points :

colin : i cant seem to pick any other car than a fiat or clio at the momment it says they have to be unlocked in carrer mode but that involves trucks and buggy's unless i cant see it ive not been able to just race using say a subaru or evo

Forza : Having a corner that requires you to slow down to 20 kmph not on in a racer and the overall sense of speed isnt great doesn tfeel liek your in a car at all .

But at the end of the day both are top racing sims and look amazing .

unklerosco

Aint got Colin.. Things that annoy me about Forza.

If u have the fastest car u start first, u dont race against anyone n finish.. Its pants, there's no challenge at all. If there is, bang on a turbo n its gone. I've lapped cars in a 4 lap race, its stupid. Surely it could have been made that at least 2-3 cars in each race would be lapping around the same pace as u..

Racing does get repititive... Its getting to where im looking for a car i like n do the event to win it. Its not fun cause u cant loose a race..

I just hope it gets a bit better as it goes on....

Things i like, its as close to Grand Tourismo as im likely to get... Still, dont think it'll ever be beaten.

Ciaran500

unklerosco wrote:

If u have the fastest car u start first, u dont race against anyone n finish.. Its pants, there's no challenge at all. If there is, bang on a turbo n its gone. I've lapped cars in a 4 lap race, its stupid. Surely it could have been made that at least 2-3 cars in each race would be lapping around the same pace as u..

:rolleyes:

Use some restraint, check the PI of the cars you are going to racing against and set your car up to be similar. Much more fun and much more satisfying.

some annoying things all right are in forza ive noticed things liek spinning off for no reason

Colin McRae does not have realistic handling, its an arcade game and you never spin in Forza for no reason. You are driving wrong.

lee_baby_simms

Ciaran500 wrote:

:rolleyes:

Use some restraint, check the PI of the cars you are going to racing against and set your car up to be similar.


Colin McRae does not have realistic handling, its an arcade game and you never spin in Forza for no reason. You are driving wrong.

^Exactly.

Graphically DiRT may appear to look better but within a few minutes of playing it i've seen tearing and dodgy framerates. Forza 2's 60fps is rock solid and makes up for any polish and lighting found in DiRT.

DiRT is by no means a sim (a clever move by codemasters IMO).

unklerosco

Ciaran500 wrote:

:rolleyes:

Use some restraint, check the PI of the cars you are going to racing against and set your car up to be similar. Much more fun and much more satisfying.

The point is u progress way way way faster than the game does... Fine, u dont wanna be driving a banger for ages before u get something that goes but still.. N the AI to me is woeful... It just sticks to the driving line all day long. If i break early instead of breaking with me or out manovering me they just whack u...

In grand tourismo u had to upgrade ur car to win... In this game u'll win anyway, n u need to downgrade to have fun..

Still its a V good game, i just expected more..

Ciaran500

unklerosco wrote:

In grand tourismo u had to upgrade ur car to win... In this game u'll win anyway, n u need to downgrade to have fun..

Still its a V good game, i just expected more..

Keep playing, put it on hard without any aids and you will have to upgrade and tune to get anywhere, especially in the later races.

mik_da_man

unklerosco wrote:

The point is u progress way way way faster than the game does... Fine, u dont wanna be driving a banger for ages before u get something that goes but still.. N the AI to me is woeful... It just sticks to the driving line all day long. If i break early instead of breaking with me or out manovering me they just whack u...

As ciaran said - keep playing it - it gets harder
I know the first few rounds of races are easy but as you get into it you will need to upgrade your car to compete with the top 3 let alone win.
I'm finding myself having to go back and racing old races again to earn some more cash to buy upgrades so I can compete.

And if it's too easy turn off ABS, TC, driving line and switch to manual, it makes it a good deal harder,esp in the quicker cars.

I think they made it easy to get into on purpose but hard to fly through all the races.

my .02

Mik

Tusky

I stopped read after this..

Graphics Colin Mcrae is miles better Forza graphics wise is a massive dissapointment id give colin 8/10 forza 6/10

No point comparing a Racing Sim to an Arcade racer anyway.

evad_lhorg

arcade racer? what are you on about?

Ciaran500

Colin Mc Rae is not a sim.

Makaveli

I don't really understand the logic in putting the fastest car first on the grid in Forza unless it's so you pick one that's signifcantly less powerful to increase the challenge. That's possible in arcade but at the begining of career mode means nothing because one you upgrade the car at all you're first on the grid.

jodolan

Colin cant be called an arcade racer id say ridge racer is an arcade racer colin is one of the most realistic driving experience's ive ever come across in a rally game the handling is perfect , the cars really need to be tuned up its so worth your while tweeking the cars depending on the type of course and your driving style . I spent a lot of time tweeking tonight and have turned it from a "floating" car ( if you ve palyed it you ll understand what i mean) , into a finely tuned car that sticks to the road corners perfectly ive gone from longest distance with out a crash of 340 metres to finishing stages without a dent .

The force feedback is brilliant in colin every bump rattles you , you really feel like your driving its the closest thing to actually driving ive ever experienced sitting about 5 feet from a 42" hdtv bonnet view tundering down the road getting rattled around the sense of speed my god :eek:

Also spent time in forza tuning have gotten rid of the understeering with some fine tuning booting aroud the place now kicking arse . I fine experience but i allways have it in the back of my mind that its a computor game i never get lost in it like colin .

Kinetic^

jodolan wrote:

Colin cant be called an arcade

Well that's what it is.

Villain

I downloaded the Demo's of each game and I went for Dirt first but I will probably end up buying Forza at some stage.

I have to say Colin McRae is not arcade imo, I have sat in several WRC rally cars during testing by top Irish Rally drivers and Dirt is very close to the real thing, i.e. there is a very very fine line between setting the fastest stage time and catching a rock or tree and ending the rally. The handling is also very simalar and the speeds are very close to the real speeds.

Forza offers something different in the form of track racing and while some may call it a sim it does have a little arcade feel to it although the handling is realistic.

For me anyone who slags Colin McCrae Dirt off as an arcade has never experienced the real thing.

Ciaran500

irish1 wrote:

For me anyone who slags Colin McCrae Dirt off as an arcade has never experienced the real thing.

No one is slagging it. We're just saying its not a sim, doesn't make it a bad game or automatically make it worse than Forza.

And I have been in a few rally cars (although not WRC level) and even a buggy and I still stick by my arcade description.

lee_baby_simms

jodolan wrote:

Colin cant be called an arcade racer id say ridge racer is an arcade racer colin is one of the most realistic driving experience's ive ever come across in a rally game the handling is perfect ,

DiRT isn't realistic at all. Have you ever driven a rally car let alone played many rally games?

Granted i havent driven a rally car but i know that it takes longer than 2 seconds to make a complete stop in gravel from 50 mph. I know that if i flew into a ditch at 50 mph i wouldn't be able to reverse out of it and continue down the road in a matter of seconds.

Its physically impossible to throw a car around like that in a real life and the developers know that but they made it fun to play which is why its an arcade game.

DiRT is far too forgiving to be considered a sim.

Heres a real rally sim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Burns_Rally

jodolan

lee_baby_simms wrote:

DiRT isn't realistic at all. Have you ever driven a rally car let alone played many rally games?

Granted i havent driven a rally car but i know that it takes longer than 2 seconds to make a complete stop in gravel from 50 mph. I know that if i flew into a ditch at 50 mph i wouldn't be able to reverse out of it and continue down the road in a matter of seconds.

Its physically impossible to throw a car around like that in a real life and the developers know that but they made it fun to play which is why its an arcade game.

DiRT is far too forgiving to be considered a sim.

Heres a real rally sim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Burns_Rally

Thats only on the lower skill levels play it on the higher ones i hit a tree and the car died race over , ive yet to have that in forza and i hit the walls pretty hard .RAlly cars are incredibly strong ive seen some roll three or four times and keep driving . But i am talking about the driving experience not the crashing into a ditch experience , For me sitting in front of colin macrae is closer to what it feels like driving along in a real a car than forza but that could be down to my set up your experience would be totally different

I think both are sims ones a track sim and ones a rally sim

lee_baby_simms

jodolan wrote:

Thats only on the lower skill levels play it on the higher ones i hit a tree and the car died race over , ive yet to have that in forza and i hit the walls pretty hard .RAlly cars are incredibly strong ive seen some roll thre or four times and keep driving

I think both are sims ones a track sim and ones a rally sim

Thats damage you're talking about, i was referring to the physics...meh forget it.

Yeah its a sim.

At least we can agree that its a great game.

Villain

lee_baby_simms wrote:

DiRT isn't realistic at all. Have you ever driven a rally car let alone played many rally games?

Granted i havent driven a rally car but i know that it takes longer than 2 seconds to make a complete stop in gravel from 50 mph. I know that if i flew into a ditch at 50 mph i wouldn't be able to reverse out of it and continue down the road in a matter of seconds.

Its physically impossible to throw a car around like that in a real life and the developers know that but they made it fun to play which is why its an arcade game.

DiRT is far too forgiving to be considered a sim.

Heres a real rally sim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Burns_Rally

I think you need to learn a little about rallying before you slag other peoples opinions off, I have seen a WRC Impreza roll 4 times and go on to finish 2nd in an Irish rallying event, the braking power of a WRC car is very hard to believe unless you have experienced it. WRC rally cars are strongly built I have seen cars go off and be pushed back on to the stage several times I have seen cars finish stages on 3 wheels. Don't compare a WRC Rally car to a standard car!

lee_baby_simms

irish1 wrote:

I have seen a WRC Impreza roll 4 times and go on to finish 2nd in an Irish rallying event

Were you in the car at the time? You might still be suffering concussion.

Villain

lee_baby_simms wrote:

Were you in the car at the time? You might still be suffering concussion.

I was working as part of the rally crew for another car in the event I remember the guys hammering the roof back up at the end of the stage, I assure it is 100% true.

lee_baby_simms

irish1 wrote:

I was working as part of the rally crew for another car in the event I remember the guys hammering the roof back up at the end of the stage, I assure it is 100% true.

Yeah ok but thats besides the point. Forget about damage for the moment.

The handling is unrealistic. Its easy to pick up and forgiving.

Racing sims are by definition neither easy to pick up or forgiving.

Arcade racers are.

Smoggy

Colin Mcrae can't be counted as a sim, if it was the developers ultmate goal would be realism, Colin doesn't give this, it provides a great racer. I'm calling it an arcade sim

lee_baby_simms

Smoggy wrote:

I'm calling it an arcade sim

Fence sitter!;)

Paddy@CIRL

jodolan wrote:

colin is one of the most realistic driving experience's ive ever come across in a rally game the handling is perfect ,

The handling is 'perfect' to those who have no iota of an idea what they really feel like to drive.

Whoever made the comment about judging how 'real' the handling is by being in the passenger seat of a WRC car, next you'll be telling us thats how a Boeing 747 should feel because you flew in one ... :rolleyes:

Fair enough, the damage model is sensational, easily the best I've ever seen, same with the car models, but the handling is atrocious. If a car went from over 100mph to a stop in under a second, the occupants would pass out from the G-forces. It doesnt help that the sounds are crap aswell.


If you want real simulation gaming, try GTR2, then come back to me.

CMR DiRT = Sim Damage / Arcade Handling.

Villain

Paddy@CIRL wrote:

The handling is 'perfect' to those who have no iota of an idea what they really feel like to drive.

Whoever made the comment about judging how 'real' the handling is by being in the passenger seat of a WRC car, next you'll be telling us thats how a Boeing 747 should feel because you flew in one ... :rolleyes:

Fair enough, the damage model is sensational, easily the best I've ever seen, same with the car models, but the handling is atrocious. If a car went from over 100mph to a stop in under a second, the occupants would pass out from the G-forces. It doesnt help that the sounds are crap aswell.


If you want real simulation gaming, try GTR2, then come back to me.

CMR DiRT = Sim Damage / Arcade Handling.

I have also driven a WRC Subaru Impreza and WRC Ford Escort, but not at the same speed as a top experienced driver that was why I mentioned being in the cars during testing, the handling is very very close to the real thing

Vegeta

just want to point out if a car rolled 4 times the roll cage would surely be bent or damaged.

as far as I know (definitely true in actual WRC events, 100% sure of this) if the roll cage is bent or slightly damaged = automatic retirement. May not be true in Irish rally

Not calling you a liar or anything but just pointing this out.

Jip

jodolan wrote:

Thats only on the lower skill levels play it on the higher ones i hit a tree and the car died race over , ive yet to have that in forza and i hit the walls pretty hard .

You've probably only got the damage at cosmetic or something similar, it seems to me that most people complaining about how easy Froza is are playing it on easy level and are possibly only doing the Proving Ground races. Once you start hitting the other races things turn up a notch. I must have raced the first race in the sub 150bhp category 5 or 6 times before I got a top 3 finish, never mind a win. After every race I had to go tune and upgrade the car without pushing it over 150bhp to get competitive in the race (playing it at medium level).
And regarding the A.I. just sticking to the racing line, they don't. Very often you'll see them hit dirt and gravel and if you go to make a overtaking move and you have the racing line they brake and let you through, on the higher levels they seem to be a bit more agressive though and don't give you as much space if they know you're cutting it tight.

Villain

Vegeta wrote:

just want to point out if a car rolled 4 times the roll cage would surely be bent or damaged.

as far as I know (definitely true in actual WRC events, 100% sure of this) if the roll cage is bent or slightly damaged = automatic retirement. May not be true in Irish rally

Not calling you a liar or anything but just pointing this out.

You are correct if the Roller Cage was damaged the Scruiteneer would not allow the car to continue however in this case the cage wasn't damaged and it was inspected by the Scruiteneer and he was allowed to continue, its not that relevant to the topic really but its just I think some people think that Rally cars are built the same as road cars or can't continue once they hit something.

I was part of a rally team for nearly 10 years and I have seen cars make it to the end of a stage on 3 wheels with no front or back bumper and almost every corner damaged however after 40 mins in service it was able to get running again. Now I have also seen a car hit a rock and damage the suspension that badly that it means instant retirement and obviously mechanical failure like blown engine etc's. But I have often seen turbos changed during service I even remember us changing a Gearbox in a Escort during service in Tallaght during the Circuit one time, its amazing how fast the mechanics can work.

lee_baby_simms

The handling in DiRT isn't realistic whatsoever.

jodolan

lee_baby_simms wrote:

Granted i havent driven a rally car

The handling in DiRT isn't realistic whatsoever.

You have never driven a rally car yet you can safely say that the handling isnt realistic .

The mind boggles .

lee_baby_simms

jodolan wrote:

You have never driven a rally car yet you can safely say that the handling isnt realistic .

The mind boggles .

haha, have it your way jodolan. It must be everyone else who is wrong.

Villain

lee_baby_simms wrote:

haha, have it your way jodolan. It must be everyone else who is wrong.

Hey you are entitled to your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree but can I ask what you are using as a comparison to form your opinion?

lee_baby_simms

irish1 wrote:

Hey you are entitled to your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree but can I ask what you are using as a comparison to form your opinion?

Ok heres my final word:

Why don't you try to get in touch with Codemasters and ask them was DiRT made

(a)to be as realistic as possible or (SIM)

(b)to be fun to play at the expense of realism (ARCADE)

My bet is that they would have no problem admitting (b).

No one is criticizing the game when by calling it an arcade game, its just a fact.

Now i'm done chewing over the same point here. So lets agree to disagree.

Villain

lee_baby_simms wrote:

Ok heres my final word:

Why don't you try to get in touch with Codemasters and ask them was DiRT made

(a)to be as realistic as possible or (SIM)

(b)to be fun to play at the expense of realism (ARCADE)

My bet is that they would have no problem admitting (b).

No one is criticizing the game when by calling it an arcade game, its just a fact.

Now i'm done chewing over the same point here. So lets agree to disagree.

I've already agreed to disagree I was just wondering what you were using to compare the handling of DIRT with?

WRC rally cars handle a lot different than most people think and also if you drive any of the classic rally cars in DIRT you can feel the real difference in some of the older cars that didn't have the same handling as WRC cars have now.

Dublin1983

Out Run C64- Enough Said.

hottstuff

I like the game , despite it not feeling like driving a rallycar lol

jodolan

lee_baby_simms wrote:

Ok heres my final word:

Why don't you try to get in touch with Codemasters and ask them was DiRT made

(a)to be as realistic as possible or (SIM)

(b)to be fun to play at the expense of realism (ARCADE)

My bet is that they would have no problem admitting (b).

No one is criticizing the game when by calling it an arcade game, its just a fact.

Now i'm done chewing over the same point here. So lets agree to disagree.

Id say its a bit of both same as forza , it would be incredible boring if it was just like real life , someone crashes into you you both park up wait for the gaurds , he starts claiming whiplash after a 3 year court case you can finish the race .

they both simulate a driving experience = driving sims

but anyway this is like argueing is this colour bluey green or greeny blue

Tusky

I dont understand why people are getting so defensive about this. Its not an insult to call a game an arcade game. Im not, in your words, 'slagging' it off. I probably prefer arcade racers.

I will pick up DIRT at some stage thought as it seems like lots of fun.

Vegeta

jodolan wrote:

they both simulate a driving experience = driving sims

yes but a driving sim is historically known as a game that trys to use realistic physics, aerodynamics etc and re-create driving a race car

whereas other games (like past Mcrae driving games) are not as strict with the gritty details involved are known as arcade style racers. They are still great fun but not as realistic.

For example PGR3 is a decent arcade style racer, it is pretty easy to drive in this game but I find it a very good game.

I have not played the new McRae game so you will notice i have not passed judgement on this yet. I will download demo tonight and make decision then.

Furp

I have both games a few days now and I think that I really like them both for different reasons.

Dirt is a lot of fun, its fast, the graphics are pretty, and I find myself nearly always watching the replays, which are fantastic, the online aspect is not that great and the achievement's come at a nice pace. The damage modeling is superb and sense of speed astounding.

Forza 2 is also a lot of fun, painting cars is a game until itself, I could spend hours in the paint editor, tweaking and upgrading excellent, balancing the different upgrades to get a car to the top of its class without going into the next one. Trying to get past the next race, the handling of the cars just feels so right, and so far I've found the online races evenly matched and a lot of fun in B class. The replays of races are a bit boring but the photo mode is another area which I really enjoy, the graphics are also excellent but in a different way to Dirt, they are much more fluid.

All I'm saying is its about time we started to get some decent racers on the 360 and I have room for both games to keep me occupied for the foreseeable future.

Now if only we could have Forza 2's photo mode in Colin McCrae DiRT that would make for some great shots.

jodolan

Vegeta wrote:

yes but a driving sim is historically known as a game that trys to use realistic physics, aerodynamics etc and re-create driving a race car

whereas other games (like past Mcrae driving games) are not as strict with the gritty details involved are known as arcade style racers. They are still great fun but not as realistic.

For example PGR3 is a decent arcade style racer, it is pretty easy to drive in this game but I find it a very good game.

I have not played the new McRae game so you will notice i have not passed judgement on this yet. I will download demo tonight and make decision then.

well id class PGR and ridge racer etc as arcade racers games that requir you to sit in the car press go and steer . But you ll see in cloin the amount of tuning that has to be done to a car to get it just right for you , there's as much if not more tweeking to be done to the car than Forza ( not including painting and buying parts ).

Ill understand people playing it a little and thinking its an arcade racer as you slip all over the place but tune it up and its better than Forza Just my opinion and it is based on the whole experience ( steering wheel feedback etc which is far better in colin )

Paddy@CIRL

irish1 wrote:

I have also driven a WRC Subaru Impreza and WRC Ford Escort, but not at the same speed as a top experienced driver that was why I mentioned being in the cars during testing, the handling is very very close to the real thing

How come you only stated in your previous post that you only had passenger rides in one ?

Sorry but there is an awful smell of BS coming from your direction ...

chrislad

Very different games. One is pure arcade racing with the other a pure simulation. It's really apples and oranges here, and I don't feel they have a valid comparison, gameplay wise, to each other. I'd compare DiRT to Burnout before I'd compare it to Forza.

Villain

Paddy@CIRL wrote:

How come you only stated in your previous post that you only had passenger rides in one ?

Sorry but there is an awful smell of BS coming from your direction ...

Because I only drove the cars to a max speed of 60 mph, where as I sat in test drives up to 140mph on real Irish rally stages and let me assure the poster who compared it to been on a plane, I have flown on many planes and it is a million miles from been in the passenger seat of a WRC car been tested by a top Rally driver.

I don't really care if you think my posts are BS but if you check a few threads in the motor forum about best car you have driven or fastest speed you have done in a car you will see I have posted about my expierence in rally cars many times in the past, I'm sure there is many more people who have more expierence than me in WRC's there is a hell of a lot WRC cars in this country now, btw I also tested a WRC Escort in Madeira now that was an expeirence, you think Molls Gap or the Sally gap have drops you would want to see the drops there and the pace of the stages is amazing.

Believe what you want but my posts are genuine.

Pedro Monscooch

Dirt is for sale at E40 and region free on play-asia if you've missed it. Link

Vegeta

Played DiRt last night and its as arcade as arcade racers get. Great fun though, loved the buggy racing.

But yeah its nowhere near a sim. It does have excellent graphics, car/engine sound and car damage though.

The driving itself is not realistic (its great fun, just not realistic)

Villain

What are you comparing it to Vegeta?

I played a bit online last night and drove McCrae's Mk2 Escort the handling seemed very realistic to me, thats some car he has I sat into it in Killarney Race Course a few years ago when he bought it over its like a MK2 with WRC gear in it, anyone that was in Killarney Race course that night will remember he almost lost it on a jump, its a serious car.

Is there a setting in Forza that turns damage off? or is it just the demo that shows feck all damage even if you hit a barrier at top speed?

Ciaran500

irish1 wrote:

Is there a setting in Forza that turns damage off? or is it just the demo that shows feck all damage even if you hit a barrier at top speed?

The damage is set to arcade for the demo, in the full game you can damage engine, suspension, breaks, gearbox and clutch. Although the visual damage isn't as detailed as it is in DiRT cause the manufacturers won't let them

Jip

Don't know what damage is like Dirt but it's decent enough in Forza. After one fast long sweeping bend I overshot it and hit a wall and bounced back into traffic coming behind me leaving me without a front and back bumper and the side in crap. Next lap the bumpers were still sitting in the middle of the track.

Vegeta

irish1 wrote:

What are you comparing it to Vegeta?

Mainly real physics





and being in a family of petrol heads some of whom worked for a racing team who built and raced in a lot of different styles (rally, rally cross, track)