Self defence and martial arts

Pride Fighter

I enjoy MMA and think it rules. However I just thought I would start a thread about various self defence situations we have been in and whether our martial arts helped us get out of a pickle. This forum has a tendency to be mostly about MMA, which is cool, but sometimes non MMA fans can feel isolated. I do not want people talking about Pride, UFC, Cage Rage or other shows. Although if you train in MMA and had to use it on the street post away. I have trained in kenpo for nearly 6 years and in that time have not used it. Self defence is a fascinating subject, what situations have others been in. Post away!

DITTKD

For me, not much. There’s been a couple of situations where I was able to dodge punches, a whole bunch of situations where I could see trouble coming quicker than if I hadn’t done any MA. I think a fair few where I’ve just intimidated the other guy into going away.
Really, since I’m not a doorman/soldier/garda/kid in a school, the only hairy situations I’ve faced have been when I was drunk*. MA is hard to do when you’re drunk. The fact that I’m aware of this has probably saved my ass a bunch of times.

*Except once when I walked in on a burgler. Wasn’t prepared for that. I was stronger, but he had this scissors that he used to pick locks or something, he held it to my throat, threatened to kill me etc etc. I distinctly remember at the time thinking “If I batter the **** out of this guy, I might end up in prison.” And “What if he has HIV or something, I don’t want him bleeding all over my house”. He was a heroin addict you see.

So, MA, I guess…..it’s handy. I’m better able to size people up/perceive trouble/I’m stronger and faster and smarter than most goons, but it didn’t quite work out when it counted, but that’s the sort of thing that happens once in a lifetime, so I’m not that worried.

Black Swan

SD twice in over a decade...

When very young I reached my height before the lads and there was this one that bullied me constantly. Had started in KB, and one day I had enough and popped him in the nose. He went down and cried, I got in a lot of trouble, but he didn't bother me anymore.

Not so long ago I got cornered by a very large, drunken bloke in Dub at night, tried to get away and avoid a confrontation, but he stood in my way, grabbed for me, and scared the heck out of me! Had been in TKD for many years after KB. Cannot really remember clearly what I did, but I was kicking and punching him like crazy, he went down, kickked him a few more times while down, then ran. Reported the incident, but nothing came of it...

ColinJennings

I've done MA for about 15 years in total. Never needed to hit anyone.
I'm quite proud of that, although I do appreciate that I am also lucky.

Dee2001

only situation i been in was a head lock yep i learned someing that day too,always try to get your right or left arm up to the area were there neck is and push it back(i am not reliable if you kill or paralize the person by doing this) as far as you can and the grip will lossen and rember they only got 1 other arm free so u got 2 arms it will hurt but hey it was endangering your life

mark.leonard

Dee2001 wrote:

only situation i been in was a head lock yep i learned someing that day too,always try to get your right or left arm up to the area were there neck is and push it back(i am not reliable if you kill or paralize the person by doing this) as far as you can and the grip will lossen and rember they only got 1 other arm free so u got 2 arms it will hurt but hey it was endangering your life

Not to stray off topic but hmmmmmm!

So you are going to use your arm to push the guy back by pushing at his neck? Are you from Taekwondo by any chance? I was a strong advocate of that technique during my TKD days.

Musashi

There have been a couple ot times I've used "something" to defend myself or end a situation I felt was going bad.

One ended with me wrist locking a guy to the floor, I was only training TKD at the time but had learnt an outside wrist lock from an Aikido book :rolleyes:

One night a guy came at me because I was watching him vandalise a nightclub toilet, I could care less but didn't want to get knocked on a wet (pissy) floor. Elbow to the snot, any striking style or instinct would teach you that.

One New Years Night I was chatting to a friend when we got double head locked/neck grabbed by a drunken fool. I asked if my mate knew the guy before putting my thumb under the idiots nose and yanking his head back and away. He was so drunk he fell over, yay me :cool: Again I had a TKD background then, felt the eye and testicles might be better targets, but the guy was so drunk there was no need to really hurt him, just to get him away from me.

There've been a few other fights where I was a witness but not directly involved, but I've never had to use any outlandish moves to defend myself. These days I like RBSD (Core Combatives) for self defense and am looking to join a kick boxing club for fun and exercise.

Just enjoy what you do, or if not, change it.

pma-ire

most of what i've been involved in was when i was working in bars/night clubs and hotels night work. which i'm now out of for maybe 6 years at least, and spent about 10 years in that environment?

i can't remember how many situations i've found myself in. but i'm still here without a mark

one thing that happens to you while working in a job where **** happens, is that you quickly get a feel for what will work fast and get things back into control. this may involve being good with the gab more so than being handy at scrapping, and i think that this should be the same for self defence.

also you see where techniques that you may have been shown to defend yourself in situations don't work without knowing the context, strenght and limitations involved. this can be dangerous as people tend to cling onto techniques waiting for them to work sometimes

mkem

Have done TKD / KB for 8/9 years as well as many different type of workshops involving various martial arts. TBTG the only times I seem to put my experience to use is at our Christmas parties or family get-togethers where you find yourself breaking up handbag scuffles.

O'Leprosy

Musashi wrote:

There have been a couple ot times I've used "something" to defend myself or end a situation I felt was going bad.

One ended with me wrist locking a guy to the floor, I was only training TKD at the time but had learnt an outside wrist lock from an Aikido book :rolleyes:

One night a guy came at me because I was watching him vandalise a nightclub toilet, I could care less but didn't want to get knocked on a wet (pissy) floor. Elbow to the snot, any striking style or instinct would teach you that.

One New Years Night I was chatting to a friend when we got double head locked/neck grabbed by a drunken fool. I asked if my mate knew the guy before putting my thumb under the idiots nose and yanking his head back and away. He was so drunk he fell over, yay me :cool: Again I had a TKD background then, felt the eye and testicles might be better targets, but the guy was so drunk there was no need to really hurt him, just to get him away from me.

There've been a few other fights where I was a witness but not directly involved, but I've never had to use any outlandish moves to defend myself. These days I like RBSD (Core Combatives) for self defense and am looking to join a kick boxing club for fun and exercise.

Just enjoy what you do, or if not, change it.

Interesting thread and responces. I am a BB in TKD but do BJJ nowadays (when I get the chance). What I have noticed in the posts, that most of the posts have been from fellas with a striking background. Now I'm not knocking striking arts ( I am a TKDer and do not beleive that 6 years of training in it was a waste of time by any means, trad MA have some shortcomings, but with a few years training, against the average Joe in a striking match you should come out on top ), but nobody ever seemed to use say, a roundhouse/turning kick, back kick, back fist etc. Not even to the body ?

I have used BJJ twice, once in security work (against a scumbag twice my size ! ) and once in a street situation when a 'hard' boyracer type kicked my motorbike :mad: ( Kick me - BUT NOT MY BIKE ) Not blowing the BJJ trumpet, but came out on top both times.

cowzerp

O'Leprosy wrote:

and once in a street situation when a 'hard' boyracer type

never knew there was such a thing.

pma-ire

O'Leprosy wrote:

but nobody ever seemed to use say, a roundhouse/turning kick, back kick, back fist etc. Not even to the body ?

i have used front kicks and turning kicks to the body to defend myself in the past. it may not be something i'd do now if i was back in those situations?

Marathon Man

[QUOTE=pma-ire

one thing that happens to you while working in a job where **** happens, is that you quickly get a feel for what will work fast and get things back into control. this may involve being good with the gab more so than being handy at scrapping, and i think that this should be the same for self defence.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent point. The mouth can indeed be mightier than the fist especially if one is at work. However, one incident that I remember is while working security in a Dublin city train station was that I had to restrain a particularly violent individual who was attacking a lad whose mobile phone he had stolen. I gave the thug a huge suplex as he became increasingly violent toward me and kept him down until the police arrived. And me from a striking background.:)

pma-ire

Marathon Man wrote:

I gave the thug a huge suplex as he became increasingly violent toward me and kept him down until the police arrived. And me from a striking background.:)

watching wwe really pays off don't it

DITTKD

pma-ire wrote:

one thing that happens to you while working in a job where **** happens, is that you quickly get a feel for what will work fast and get things back into control. this may involve being good with the gab more so than being handy at scrapping, and i think that this should be the same for self defence.

Totally. There's been a few times where I've seen people talk their way out of trouble, where if it was me I would have had no chance of doing it. I'm just not great at calming people down, wish I was.
They should teach that.

pma-ire

DITTKD wrote:

Totally. There's been a few times where I've seen people talk their way out of trouble, where if it was me I would have had no chance of doing it. I'm just not great at calming people down, wish I was.
They should teach that.

this is something that RBSD has addressed in the last few years. but it should be part of every self defence course or martial arts school if they want to keep the students safe.

O'Leprosy

Marathon Man wrote:

Excellent point. The mouth can indeed be mightier than the fist especially if one is at work. However, one incident that I remember is while working security in a Dublin city train station was that I had to restrain a particularly violent individual who was attacking a lad whose mobile phone he had stolen. I gave the thug a huge suplex as he became increasingly violent toward me and kept him down until the police arrived. And me from a striking background.:)

But that's the thing, nearly everyone has had to use grappling instead of striking. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying any of you angels have not used the old fisticuff's in your time, but for the multitude of striking techniques we learn, how many of them are really used in the REAL World ? Again I am not saying that all the striking skills do not ahve any value, they are as important as grappling if you weant to live in the real world of self defence. But techniques such as a roundhouse kick/spinning back fist ( TKD, KB, Karate ), Muay Thai clinch and knee elbow strikes (if they get the chance tp be used by a MTer, VERY EFFECTIVE I have no doubt), Wing Tsun "' sticky hands techniques ' etc, in the REAL world - are they applicable ? Is the less is more principle of good old fashioned boxing in a striking stituation, more applicable to the real world ?

Marathon Man

pma-ire wrote:

watching wwe really pays off don't it

It certainly does.

dlofnep

Once outside a bar in all the time I've been training. Well actually inside a bar, where I clinched - cupped his head and controlled him in a guillotene until the bouncers came. Then I went outside but he followed me out, kept arching forward trying to headbutt me, but I took him down and pinned him in side control until it was broke up. He was a fair bit bigger than me too. Without MMA, I would of perished!

conor rowan

99% of fights are avoidable, the ones that aren't are when someone starts hassle and you have a lady or a really drunken mate with you (usually the latter unfortunately).in this situation, you have someone else to look out for so turning around and running off into the sunset isnt really an option.
If anything the ability to take a punch/headbutt has stood to me more than the ability to deliver one.
as most fights tend to happen when youve had a few beers, i think grappling/close contact styles (eg BJJ, greco-roman,boxing) usually come out the best as they suit the messy-confined space-type of brawls that tend to happen on nights out.
from my own experience and chatting to a few other people, it seems that the more you train in martial arts (of any background) the less fights you seem to get drawn into, be this an increased awareness of when a fight is likely to happen and can avoid it miles in advance or you get the quiet confidence that allows you to successfully stare down the troublemaker. this of course excludes the intial honeymoon period when someone feels after X no. of lessons with Z MA they can take on the world and beat them.

with regards to that quiet confidence i refer to, here's an anecdote- a mate of mines brother was in dublin on leave from serving in iraq with the british army and getting the nighlink home towards crumlin when the usual scumbags on the bus started on him "do you want your go "etc. He simply sat there staring straight ahead and no matter what they said he calmly replied "if you touch me i will take you up the dublin mountains and bury you in a shallow grave". after a while, it sunk in that they werent intimidating him in any way and he kept repeating his threat in a quiet calm voice and they got really freaked out and apologised.
not saying this will work in every situation/for everyone but its nice to hear someone out the ****s up the scumbags on the nightlink for a change.

muckwarrior

O'Leprosy wrote:

Is the less is more principle of good old fashioned boxing in a striking stituation, more applicable to the real world ?

I can't see why MT/KB would be any less applicable than boxing in a striking situation. Especially since you can utilise elbows and knees at close quarters.

O'Leprosy

muckwarrior wrote:

I can't see why MT/KB would be any less applicable than boxing in a striking situation. Especially since you can utilise elbows and knees at close quarters.

Agreed, but none of the Muay Thai guys have posted using it so far.

Khannie

O'Leprosy wrote:

Agreed, but none of the Muay Thai guys have posted using it so far.

For what it's worth (not a lot): I haven't been in any rows since I started MT.

I can say with absolute certainty that the elbows and knees would be brought out if I did get in a row, despite me being a total MT newbie. Just from watching fights in the ring, it's clear that both have the ability to stop a fight in its tracks. I think they'd be particularly useful if you're attacking pre-emptively.

I'd be very interested to hear how people with actual skill (i.e. not me) have gotten on in a self defence situation with MT though. I'm guessing it would be very very effective if you're any way good at it.

I did pad with a doorman in bridgestone once who swore by it. edit: and I remember paddy telling a story of teap style kicks causing people to wet themselves. Not sure if he's done doorman work. Memory's not the best today. Hopefully he'll chime in.

On the grappling arts being potentially more effective: What I'd like to know is: Let's say you get a guy with an armbar....unless you break his arm, he's well able to come back for more when you let him go. Is this not a major disadvantage v's the striking arts?

There's no doubt though (in my mind at least), with a few drinks on you grappling's gonna be easier to be effective with.

Another potential disadvantage it has though is that it's really only good for 1 on 1 type rows, where striking allows you to (potentially at least) keep more than one attacker at bay.

edit: I wouldn't be using any kicks above waist height. I generally wear jeans out, so high kicks are basically out.

Mark Hamill

Khannie wrote:

On the grappling arts being potentially more effective: What I'd like to know is: Let's say you get a guy with an armbar....unless you break his arm, he's well able to come back for more when you let him go. Is this not a major disadvantage v's the striking arts?.

Well, I always advocate choking someone out in a street fight. Not only does it have no long effects, if you choke someone out, they're out. It doesn't matter if your're on coke or E or gummy bear juice, if you can't breathe you go unconsious.
That said, I do get your point, unless they're sober enough to realise they are in a lot of trouble you might need to do it to be safe (eg if they're on drugs)

Khannie wrote:

Another potential disadvantage it has though is that it's really only good for 1 on 1 type rows, where striking allows you to (potentially at least) keep more than one attacker at bay.

Obviously if you can tell its going to be more than one on one, you'll probably want to avoid grappling. The advantage, though, you have is if one of your opponents tries to grapple with you (to bring you down so his mates can stick the foot in), you can either disengage or end up on top and then get back up quicker.

Niall Keane

A few encounters that come to mind…

· Was in a club in Galway a few years back, with my girlfriend, sister and her boyfriend (he was a small lad, 65-70kg I guess.) Anyway, the night began well, I was left holding 3 pints of bulmers when a lad bashed past me and knocked them all. I exclaimed “Hey!” in a shocked manner, not aggressive. He turned and gave me the finger telling me F*** you! And marched out of the club. This certainly annoyed me, don’t know but I guess most of you if you’re like me would apologise and replace the drinks.
Anyway the next thing my sister’s boyfriend comes over to tell me that a big lad was “shouldering people in the back - himself, my sister and others on the dance floor. I checked it out, and sure enough this gobs*** was indeed taking a run at people randomly and trying to knock them over. So I made myself available to him, I don’t dance, but decided to try as best I could. I brushed past the guy to grab his attention. Sure enough I had to turn my back to allow him to carry out his “technique”. Each time he tried I simply sank a little (old Tai Chi Chuan trick) and let him bounce off me. He was getting frustrated, I pretended to not have noticed his attempts, synching my sinking with the attempted dancing. I kept him in peripheral vision and sure enough he decided to throw his arms around me from behind. I threw up my arms in a technique known as “As if Shutting a Door” grasped his left arm with my left, in a “Single Whip” manner, twisted about trapping his right with his left arm, simultaneously stepping upon his right foot using my knee to apply pressure to the rear of his to so that he had to keep his left foot on the ground to balance himself. Behind him was a steel guard system used to define the dance floor. He was trapped and defenceless. I brought up my right fist to my chin, leaving no room in his mind as to the seriousness of his situation. “What the F*** are you like?” I asked, and with my left arm used a “fa jing” push (short range “too complex to explain here) to send him to the floor.
He got up and left the club, some bouncers who had seen the event came over to me and complimented how I had dealt with him. Good ending except the sisters boyfriend decided that he was with me and therefore bullet proof, and started becoming a bit of an asshole, I told him if he started s*** he was on his own so he calmed down.

· About 2 years ago I was cycling back from training during heavy traffic. This lad was cycling very slowly ahead of me drifting in and out of the cycle lane for no reason, despite cars beeping to make him aware of his stupidity. I actually couldn’t risk passing him, as I’d end up being hit by a car if he drifted out during the pass. But he constantly left more than enough room on the left to undertake him so I did. I began climbing a hill and became aware of someone racing to catch up with me, next thing I know this clown is beside me trying to push me off my bike and lashing in to me. I grabbed his left handle bar and pulled, bringing both of us onto the path, didn’t rely feel it would be right to shove back and possibly send him under a car. As we mounted the pavement I leapt off my bike and let it crash ahead of me. He dismounted quickly and came towards me with a boxing guard raised, but with his right slightly low. I adopted a guard, looked down at his legs, which made him lower his right further, and I issued a left roundhouse to his head, not a standard technique for me. You have to understand as far as I was concerned he had tried to push me from my bike in heavy but moving traffic, he had lost all my respect. The kick (I’m right handed) sent him to the ground but didn’t hurt him too badly. He staggered up, clutching his bike and holding it between us, and seriously asked me why I had kicked him? Amazing how some people feel righteous about issuing violent actions but when receiving it crawl in to their shell. The lad was scared, so I explained that I wasn’t partial to someone trying to kill me by throwing me on a road with heavy traffic and left it at that. I guess not every day does someone get road rage, feel indestructible and get Cro-Copped for their efforts.

· Recently I was back home in Mayo, Christmas, enjoying a few whiskeys with an old friend and my sister. She wanted to go to a club to meet her friends (remember I don’t dance) so I agreed. We got there but the doors were locked – unusual. We knocked and they soon opened, 2 bouncers literally throwing some lad out onto the street. The doors were shut again. A few minutes later the process was repeated with another lad. A few minutes passed and the doors opened, a crowd were waiting to get in at this stage, 2 couples and us, me my friend and my sister. This time four bouncers came out carrying a lad face up by each limb. They raised him and sent him to the pavement headfirst. As gasp went up from the onlookers. The doors shut again. I crouched down, to see if the guy was o.k. Holding off the gathered crowd, some were pissed and I felt in their eagerness to see what was happening someone might kick in to him accidentally. From what I saw I was afraid that he could have suffered a neck / spinal injury, and probably was concussed. He started crying which indicated to me that he was either in pain, or ashamed, a good sign I felt. Some people brought him to his feet and walked him away.
Next thing the real crack started, the asshole bouncers inside started kicking their door to wind up the evicted lads. One of the lads charged towards the door swinging with haymakers to get through the crowd. I could se my sister in his path so I rushed on front of her and side kicked him in the abdomen sending him back and over the bonnet of a parked car. I used my toes, not the heal so as not to hurt him. He bounced back up of course bauld with the drink. I adopted a seven star guard; the right hand reaching forward the left guarding the chin, with my waist recoiled. This is a Wudang guard technique displaying the right as if it were fully extended and therefore without possibility of issuing a strike where as the waist is kept recoiled so a stiff jab can be fired from the seemingly innocuous right. Also in self defence situations is controls range and can seem to ask for appeasement as the hand is held in a palm facing downwards as if to say hey I want no trouble, hard to describe this in words. Anyway, it didn’t appease him so I chinned him, dropping him again. With that his friend who I had just looked after, started swaying towards me and said “would you try that s*** on me?” It had become farcical at this stage. I couldn’t possibly confront this guy; he had just received a hiding and was blind drunk. So I danced and weaved from left to right stating, “you can’t even follow me what the F*** are you going to do? He raised his right hand to cover his eye and stared. “Oh, its you, no lads this guy is sound, he helped me!”
I answered, “Look lads you’ve been drinking and kicked out of the club, the bouncers are winding you up, if you play into their hands you’ll end up on charges, they’re at work and sober, you’re drunk and disorderly. They agreed apologised and left. The next night the lad I had ran into came up to me and apologised again.

I have many more stories too many perhaps, I would never start a fight, there are no trophies on the street, it’s simply too easy. That might sound arrogant, but believe me fighting a professional Sanshou or Muay Thai fighter who’s been in serious training for months to destroy all before him is a different animal to a gob**** with Dutch courage. From time to time, I have taken a few slaps and not retaliated, but if someone threatens my girlfriend or family with immediate violence then as far as I’m concerned its open season. I’ve given the above accounts as in each I have used different strategies and techniques as is natural. In my experience some situations call for striking and others for grappling, generally I find with multiple opponents striking is a natural response. On one occasion on Georges street I had to deal with three lads. Two I dealt with by striking techniques, a sidekick, and a reverse elbow to the chin respectively (didn’t want to explode open his nose), the last I subdued with a “Break Arm Style” lock (seizing his arm between my neck and forearm, my left arm coiled about his right arm, turning and twisting downwards, extending my left leg back between his legs, and holding him in a painful position. Don’t really want to talk too much about this incident as I interceded for a friend who thoroughly deserved to have his hole handed to him. Mention it as both striking and grappling played their part, but again the transition was natural, and never a forced conscious action.

Regards,

Niall

Kevinly_

Niall Keane wrote:

I don’t dance, but decided to try as best I could. I brushed past the guy to grab his attention........(remember I don’t dance)........

Niall Keane wrote:

So I danced and weaved from left to right stating

Hah! Liar! Only messing, thanks for the stories glad it all worked out well for you and no one got seriously hurt. I've heard of people before taking overtaking/undertaking very personal.

Niall Keane

you caught me man, but when I say I can't dance I mean it, I can martially, in the ring, unfortunaly, I litteraly translate this to the dance floor, doesn't work!!!!! Elegant movement in the ring is one thing, crouching and spinning on the dance floor each movement rooted and structurally aligned etc. may be martially correct but it's just sad!!! - so I've been told. I know a good few martial artists afflicted with this condition! anyone else own up?

TKD SC

Niall Keane wrote:

I know a good few martial artists afflicted with this condition! anyone else own up?

Yes, pathetic dancer!! Except during my Elvis routine

StrateBlastJim

Niall Keane wrote:

I checked it out, and sure enough this gobs*** was indeed taking a run at people randomly and trying to knock them over. So I made myself available to him, I don’t dance, but decided to try as best I could. I brushed past the guy to grab his attention.

That sounds like the worst self defense i have ever heard of.

Would it not have been better to alert the bouncers/bar staff of his behaviour and let them deal with it, taking in to account you had a few drinks on you. Personally im not a SD guy but it just sounds like you put yourself in that situation because he pissed you off earlier and because of your confidence in your MA skill you decided to teach him a lesson while pretending to yourself that your not the agressor.

Just my impression from reading your post.

Jamie.

Khannie

Mark Hamill wrote:

Obviously if you can tell its going to be more than one on one, you'll probably want to avoid grappling. The advantage, though, you have is if one of your opponents tries to grapple with you (to bring you down so his mates can stick the foot in), you can either disengage or end up on top and then get back up quicker.

Just to take this a bit further....I found this:

Boldly, Thompson suggests that kickers and grapplers will not last on the street if they can’t punch. Although Geoff acknowledges that he loves grappling, and he has great admiration for grapplers, he believes that a street fight is the last place to be for the grappler, because fights are very rarely one on one. He says that if a fight was one on one, then he would back the grappler, but he feels that scenario is indeed a rare occurrence.

Not sure I entirely agree. I've seen mostly 1 on 1 fights on the street (or approximately so, like 2 on 2 or whatever). Still though, I suppose the message is clear: For self defence purposes, it's good to have striking and grappling in your arsenal.

I found the above quote here.

mark.leonard

StrateBlastJim wrote:

That sounds like the worst self defense i have ever heard of.

Would it not have been better to alert the bouncers/bar staff of his behaviour and let them deal with it, taking in to account you had a few drinks on you. Personally im not a SD guy but it just sounds like you put yourself in that situation because he pissed you off earlier and because of your confidence in your MA skill you decided to teach him a lesson while pretending to yourself that your not the agressor.

Just my impression from reading your post.

Jamie.

No offense meant Niall but I think Jim hit the nail on the head, you were looking for a row. If you want to go around fighting crime and solving mysteries then you really need to make a super hero costume and come up with an alter ego

DITTKD

Khannie wrote:

edit: I wouldn't be using any kicks above waist height. I generally wear jeans out, so high kicks are basically out.

I just ordered 15 pairs of these:


They should help.

Kevinly_

Rule Number 1 - Never recount personal self-defence anecdotes on boards.ie, at least one person will call you an idiot and/or wannabe batman.

I'm just wondering about what Geoff Thompson says when he refers to grappling does he mean any kind of wrestling/judo type stuff or purely "ground fighting" or wrestling on the ground?

Roper

Are those pants genuinely available?

Khannie

lol@dittkd

Roper wrote:

Are those pants genuinely available?

ROFL.

Just for you:

Action jeans

edit: I think these ones would fit you better Roper.

Roper

They have a 48" waist, what are you trying to say?

Khannie

Roper wrote:

They have a 48" waist, what are you trying to say?

You've lost weight?

Roper

Khannie wrote:

You've lost weight?

Well, I have been drinking less beer and more spirits, so.... compliment accepted!

thefizz

20 years practicing martial arts and thankfully never had a confrontation.

Peter

dunkamania

StrateBlastJim wrote:

That sounds like the worst self defense i have ever heard of.

Would it not have been better to alert the bouncers/bar staff of his behaviour and let them deal with it, taking in to account you had a few drinks on you. Personally im not a SD guy but it just sounds like you put yourself in that situation because he pissed you off earlier and because of your confidence in your MA skill you decided to teach him a lesson while pretending to yourself that your not the agressor.

Just my impression from reading your post.

Jamie.

As usual jim has shown us the way.
There is a difference between self defence and beating ppl up with your MA skills:)

Millionaire

without getting into specific incidents and all that BS. yes been in quite a few real life incidents (not after school teenage "i ll fight u around back of school gym at 4om,,your dead!" rows.. much more serious than that).

Anyway, Khannie asked about Muay Thai, ok I do alot of that now, but It was many years of kickboxing which is my main background, so hand skill wise, good kickboxers are usually good boxers too. (thats full contact kickboxing, not points sports karate that seems to have hijacked the word "kickboxing" in ireland, to describe their tap tap tap 1 point I win game).

I found, all these confrontations ( ok street scraps to be specific) not only is it in punching range, but close in punching range where it starts and usually finishes. a quick hard fast non stop combo of 6 - 8 punches usualy did the job very nicely, and later when I got interested in RBSD (self defence, combatives, krav maga) and learned about plam shots. (tiger claw/chin job) or power slaps/open cupped hand strikes, I trained and used these shots alot once I learned them. Very effective for sure.
Also you can end up in a Clinch type struggle very fast, now back then I was very unskilled in clinch work (MT certainly improved that, especially the 10 months in North East Thailand, where 1 - 2 hours a day of clinch wrestling with knees hard to body, and non contact elbow daily). I discovered in street confrontation, if in clinch, perfect place to psyc attacker out by going to soft part of side of neck with teeth, you never have to really bite, just the sensation of a strong fast nip with teeth, made the hardest of punters flinch,or jump back, and they would either back off, or that 1 sec jump back, they were totally open to be finished with hand strikes.
Of course knee and elbow can be used very nice. I have kneed but never had great luck with in on street, and I do not think I ever elbowed anyone.

So all in all, good fast hands (be it punches or open hand) and a few drity trickes does the job, over and over. aggression in mindset, and keep going until attacker is well stunned, then get out of there fast.

of course, we can debate and theories all we want, and train all we want, but when it kicks off, all the technique, your favourite combos used in gym while sparring etc.. they usually all go out the window, and its 1 or 2 very basic strikes that work time and time again. plus you can be crashing over tables with pints of beer, people, or outside parked cars, railings, loose balance tripping over kerbs during full on action.

Muay Thai is perfect, but you got for street to train it slightly different... rapid fire full on fast strikes non stop for 30 sec... train it that way, as that how it goes on the street, and forget the kicks, thats the last thing on the list.

This tactical krav maga I am instructor in now and teach over here in thailand, as well as muay thai training for myself. tactical km is strike wise more or less muay thai with a few eye jobs and palm shots, the fence ala geoff thompson, but the strikes are delievered rapid fire non stop. instead of paced out like a ring fight.

The last note is this... since I stopped drinking over 10 months now thank god. which means I rarely go into bars, pubs or discos, or hang about outside in places were people come out after the discos drunk. my potential for having to defend myself... is a 99% less that it was. I never started a fight, if someone squared up to me, I would try and calm them, but after that,i tnever occured to me I could have walked away early in the game, drunk ego made me stick around, and of course the other drunk aggressor would attack me first, and I would defend myself ( take his head off with about 8 full blast bare knuckle strikes to the mouth, blood everywhere). Now I see looking back..eveb though atacker always threw first shot, I would be waiting, and destroy him..you know... 80% of the incidents I could have walked away from before it got to that stage. never lost once in over 30 + seperate incidents. of course the next day and for days after, I would suffer terrible guilt for beating someone, even though alot of them were not nice people, probably picked on me cause they thouht I was weak and they could batter me.... but they sure got a nasty suprise. having said that, if it was not me they picked on that night, some poor innocent lad with no fighting skills would have got a hammering. (maybe I was on a mission from God, to teach the bullies not to try and bully people they perceived to be a push over and a weak target)!.

As Geoff Thompsom said when asked on a padcast on his web site last year..what is the best tactic to avoid violence on the street... geoff replied simply..." Do n't drink in sh*t holes "

I wish I learned that a long time ago.

crazy monkey

self defense....
It's terrible but true that the best defense is a good offense....that's why I insult people until they cry and then make my escape....

There's nothing anyone can do against a barrage of deftly used and cutting jibes....

My jibes beat your jabs...the power of the mind at it's best....

ComDubh

I had a depressing "MA on the street" experience a few years ago. I'd just left a chipper and was in a a bit of a daze, largely as my aunt had just died the previous day. I'm usually pretty street-alert in Dublin at night, but this time I wasn't. Suddenly there were two drunken teenagers in my face looking for a chip -- you know the type of approach.

One took a swing at me with a beer can. I was wheeling my bike at the time. A bike is a great weapon, but instead of doing anything sensible with it I did lifted it up to my chest like I was doing a barbell exercise. Given the amount of time I'd spent doing martial arts, you'd think I would have had the presence of mind to do something more sensible. At least I could have dropped the bike and got my guard up, instead of exercising my biceps.

My conclusion? MA, even MMA, doesn't make a hard chaw of a softie!

arybvtcw0eolkf

ComDubh wrote:

I had a depressing "MA on the street" experience a few years ago. I'd just left a chipper and was in a a bit of a daze, largely as my aunt had just died the previous day. I'm usually pretty street-alert in Dublin at night, but this time I wasn't. Suddenly there were two drunken teenagers in my face looking for a chip -- you know the type of approach.

One took a swing at me with a beer can. I was wheeling my bike at the time. A bike is a great weapon, but instead of doing anything sensible with it I did lifted it up to my chest like I was doing a barbell exercise. Given the amount of time I'd spent doing martial arts, you'd think I would have had the presence of mind to do something more sensible. At least I could have dropped the bike and got my guard up, instead of exercising my biceps.

My conclusion? MA, even MMA, doesn't make a hard chaw of a softie!

I always say the same thing.

You simply can not replicate violence in the M.A. club environment.

Although I do believe that competition can go some way to addressing it as your opponent has the intent to beat you, but in a safer environment as he's still bound by a set of rules.