My beautiful Hijab: The Flower and The Pearl

Medina

Salam Aleikum : peace

Often in my daily life people look at me in various ways with my hijab (the head scarf), some curious, some pitifully, some suspiciously, some respectfully, some understandingly, some angrily....

I had experience with one taxi driver who said to me : 'What the F**K is that thing on your head'. Well at the time I was too taken aback to say much..and I don't blame him for his attitude..some people understand hijab and some people have been moulded unknowingly by the media to associate something bad with it...

So for anyone who wonders do we like wearing it? Do we feel oppressed? Do we feel restricted? Do we feel not beautiful or unfeminine?

Personally my answer is yes i love it and no i do not feel unfeminine Of course not everyone's answer is the same but you will find the majority of Muslim women would not remove their hijab no matter what!

To illustrate a small part of how we feel read the story below. I hope no one gets offended in any way, my intent (niyah in arabic) is only to show to any curious person how a muslim girl feels about herself in her hijab


Dialogue between a flower and a pearl.


One day, a brilliantly beautiful and fragrant flower with attractive colors met a pearl that lives far in the bottom of the sea and has none of these characteristics.

Both got acquainted with each other.

The flower said: our family is large; roses and flowers are members of the family And there are many other species that are various and countless. Each has a distinctive scent, appearance …etc. Suddenly, a tinge of distress appeared on the flower.

Nothing accounts for sorrow in your talk; so why are depressed? The pearl asked.

Human beings deal with us carelessly; they slight us. They don't grow us for our sake but to get pleasure from our fragrance and beautiful appearance. They throw us on the street or in the garbage can after we are dispossessed of the most valuable properties; brilliance and fragrance.

The flower sighed and then said to the pearl: speak to me about your life! How do you live? How do you feel it? You are buried in the bottom of the sea.

The pearl answered: Although I have none of your distinctive colors and sweet scents, humans think I am precious. They do the impossible to procure me. They go on long journeys, dive deep in the seas searching for me.

You might be astounded to know that the further I lay, the more beautiful and brilliant I become. That's what upraises my value in their thought. I live in a thick shell isolated in the dark seas.

However, I'm happy and proud to be in a safe zone far from wanton and mischievous hands and still the humans consider me highly valuable.


Do you know what the flower and the pearl symbolize?

Think Think



You will find that
..

..

..

The flower is the unveiled woman
(who shows her charms)

and the pearl is the veiled woman
(who conceals her beauties)

wasim21k

Wa slam,
brilliant Answer i like that.
my wife use hijab all the time when ever she go out of home, really like it, one time i ask some silly question and she replied:

my beauty is because of you and its only for you.

Medina

Yes its true

Put it this way...I don't want to stereotype so I will refer purely from personal experience...but i think its typical of a lot of women

Before I was a Muslim I used to get up in the morning for work, dress smart, put on small amount of make-up (just enough to look refreshed) , put on perfume, high heels , make sure my hair looked good and left the house feeling very proud of my appearance. Girls on my team used to say sometimes 'you look nice today' and sometimes the conversation would turn to 'who didn't make effort to look nice today'. A bit catty in hindsight but we really didnt say it in a bitchy way, more of a matter-of-fact pitiful way..

When I used to come home, I'd take off the high heels, the make up would be worn off from the day, perfume long faded, clothes would still look ok, hair would be looking a bit ruffled. I'd just settle down on the sofa or make dinner etc. In other words I might brush my hair but apart from that once at home i wasn't concerned about my appearance. It just never came into my head to fix myself up for my boyfriend of the time. He loved me and while not necessary for his happiness with me, it sure is nice to see someone made effort for you! And if i could make all that effort for appearance in front of people who are just acquaintances..why did i not make it for the person I loved? These are my own personal questions to self

Now I am a married Muslim elhamdulillah (all thanks be to Allah)
I get up in the morning dress tidily but not provocatively, make sure i look neat, put on hijab and and face my peers without make up or shiny hair or high heels or perfume. Its when I get home after my long day, i make effort to look beautiful for my husband. Put on nice clothes casual or smart depending on my mood, shower and be clean and fresh, put on small amount of make up, tidy the hair.

I get much more pleasure from making effort for the person who loves me, who appreciates my effort, whose nice looks at me (even if i dont do much special preening) make me feel good and we both can act in a halal way upon that good feeling.

I work in office block and it becomes like a small village everyone knows and watches everyone else. I dont feel pressure to look good, whereas before if my foundation ran out that morning and i had none on I might not be particularly bothered about the lack of it, but i was bothered by the fact that i knew i would be on the receiving end of negative attention. Vain but true

I just find in this topic Islam reversed my thinking and brought more benefit to me. Its nice to feel like a treasure for my husband something special just for him....

As i read somewhere about one of the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) he spoke to his friend of his wife and said something like : When I go home there is an angel there just for me

wasim21k

really thats true,
after work just enter home and feel like i m in heaven, believe me it feel very very nice when i find my angel waiting for me each time.

Filan

I admire and respect your views Medina...really impressed by the spirituality exhibited by a lot of Islamic women...in particular reverts...I see virtue in the Hijab..and while it should in my opinion remain optional...I acknowledge the benefit's that it can provide to those who chose to wear it...a beautiful text!...thanks, Alan

donaghs

I think the hijab reminds people of a time when women were expected/forced to act and dress in certain ways. There's lots of problems with modern Ireland, but most people would be wary of returning to a more conservative society like existed in the 1950s and earlier.

JimiTime

Sorry to be take off topic, just a very quick question to medina. Did u convert to Islam if so when, or are you muslim from upbringing? If you don't mind me asking.

Medina

JimiTime wrote:

Sorry to be take off topic, just a very quick question to medina. Did u convert to Islam if so when, or are you muslim from upbringing? If you don't mind me asking.

I reverted to Islam in February this year elhamdulillah

JimiTime

Medina wrote:

I reverted to Islam in February this year elhamdulillah

Reverted? Does that mean you were a lapsed muslim or you converted back to Islam from another religion?

Medina

It means I was another religion (Catholic) and I became Muslim.

We use the word reverted for a specific reason but thats worthy of a whole other thread...

JimiTime

Medina wrote:

It means I was another religion (Catholic) and I became Muslim.

We use the word reverted for a specific reason but thats worthy of a whole other thread...

Just so I don't pull this thread away completely, would you partake in another thread to discuss you reverting? I would be very interested in hearing of your reasons, not from turning from catholocism, but rather Christianity. Would you mind?

Filan

"reverted" I believe refers to the Islamic belief that everyone is born a Muslim. Society directs them elsewhere but when they later decide to enter islam they are only 'reverting' to their original state. I am not an Islamic scholar but this is my fallible understanding. I think the Hijab can provide many benefit's for a Muslima or non-Muslima who critically -chooses- to wear it. Many women have no choice and if it's co-erced then anyone value it holds I feel is negated.

Medina

You are right Filan

And yes Jimitime I will open a new thread...just bear with me ..:)

the_new_mr

Al Salam Alaykom!

Sorry for being away for the last couple of days. I've been ridiculously busy these past few days.

Without further ado, I should like to congratulate Medina on her recent embracing of Islam. I can't tell you how happy I was when I read your post! May Allah guide you and all of us to the best things in this life and in the next life. Ameen.

And loved the first post in this thread. It's a very good story with a lot of meaning. And of course your words carry a lot more weight than mine ever could. God bless you Medina.

HelterSkelter

Medina wrote:

You are right Filan

And yes Jimitime I will open a new thread...just bear with me ..:)

I'd love to read about your experience also Median, hurry up with that new thread! :-)

InFront

Alhamdulillah (Praise Allah) that's great news, Medina,

May Allah bless you!:)

Medin

Peace upon those who follow the True Path,

nice story

the_new_mr

Salam and welcome to the Islam forum Medin.

Hope you heave read the forum charter.

Medin

the_new_mr wrote:

Salam and welcome to the Islam forum Medin.

Hope you heave read the forum charter.

We alaikumu selam,

shukran
Oh, yeah, I did read it - like a couple of years ago, I hope nothing changed "recently"

Shellie13

Just a general wonderin on this topic which must be an issue in moderne ireland
suposing a young muslim woman has many on-muslim friends and like median are/were in a fashion consious office- is it ok with your faith to wear a fashionable/ funky scraf or does that contradict the purpose?

And i think the reaction can be mostly ignorance. As well i feel many irsh women feel that islam says a woman is somehow lesser than her husband and perhaps disagree with something which they see reinforces it! I don't think we'll agree on this topic but i do feel bad for you that the taxi driver was so rude to you- that was really ignorant!

donaghs

I think many people have met rude taxi drivers.

Hijabs and Islamic headwear do appear in many different styles, and are often worn is customized ways, e.g. showing slightly more hair, etc.

The acceptability of style seems to depend on the religious/cultural practice. I understand in Iran at the moment, there is a campaign to get women to wear their head scarves in a more formal manner.

lizzyvera

I didn't like the story.

It said (in a big clumsy metaphor) that unveiled women are only valued for their looks, and then discarded. That's basically wrong. People are valued much more for their intelligence, kindness and sense of humour. If you, men who liked the story, think that you would only value an unveiled woman for her beauty and body then you have a filthy mind.

The main message was that men value veiled women more than unveiled, and that women need men's approval to be happy (the flower was sad because humans didn't like it much).

Wear what you want, but the story is silly and doesn't parallel real life at all!

InFront

It said (in a big clumsy metaphor) that unveiled women are only valued for their looks, and then discarded. That's basically wrong. People are valued much more for their intelligence, kindness and sense of humour.

Unfortunately lizzyvera not everybody has those honourable standards. I do think that Hijab does allow for more concentration on an individual's character.
Think about it this way, if you blindfold yourself you seem to pay more attention to the sounds around you. Sounds you might not usually notice become clearly audible as your concentration on your hearing is enhanced.
It's the same with Hijab - your appreciation of a personality becomes more enhanced (I think).

Anyway, just also wanted to point out that this isn't the main reason for embracing Hijab, it is love of Allah and his word.

Red Hand

InFront wrote:

Unfortunately lizzyvera not everybody has those honourable standards. I do think that Hijab does allow for more concentration on an individual's character.
Think about it this way, if you blindfold yourself you seem to pay more attention to the sounds around you. Sounds you might not usually notice become clearly audible as your concentration on your hearing is enhanced.
It's the same with Hijab - your appreciation of a personality becomes more enhanced (I think).

Anyway, just also wanted to point out that this isn't the main reason for embracing Hijab, it is love of Allah and his word.

I don't want to drag this off topic, but would you say the same about boards.ie or a chatroom, Infront?:) Is your appreciation of a person's character better online as you (and me for that matter) cannot see the other person?

InFront

That's an interesting question I hadn't thought of it before.

Although it's a great way of getting a good, objective grasp of someone's beliefs or position on something, I think the internet is quite limited in terms of appreciating an individual's personality. Personality is wrapped up in how you deal with issues in real life, your personal relationships, attitudes, morals, all of the things that make an individual.
I'm not sure that these things can ever be fully appreciated across a cable wire, however they are attributes that Hijab happens to enhance in real life.

I do think that some forms of non-Hijab clothing can be an impediment to an individual's character being fully appreciated by those around her/ him.

Medina

lizzyvera wrote:

I didn't like the story.

It said (in a big clumsy metaphor) that unveiled women are only valued for their looks, and then discarded. That's basically wrong. People are valued much more for their intelligence, kindness and sense of humour. If you, men who liked the story, think that you would only value an unveiled woman for her beauty and body then you have a filthy mind.

The main message was that men value veiled women more than unveiled, and that women need men's approval to be happy (the flower was sad because humans didn't like it much).

Wear what you want, but the story is silly and doesn't parallel real life at all!

Its a pity you didnt like it I can understand where you're coming from though.
What I will say is that the message is more that people (male and female) both respect someone who is modest more than someone who is baring all.
Lets be honest enough to admit that naked women are used to sell all kinds of products, that is because society views a woman who is beautiful and exposed as attractive. To me this objectifies women as purely sexual beings and puts pressure on us all to conform to the 'sexy' look..and the result of this is girls wearing very little, covered in fake tan and make up even with their underwear on show a lot of the time. Its not really so much about men as society I think. Men and women. A lot of women feel competitive with other women to look like this also. And ultimately is mostly male fashion designers who are designing the 'couture' skimpy clothes that highstreet chains are imitating. Its not that men value an unveiled woman purely for her looks, of course thats not the case but it does form a large part of their behaviour towards her. A man's behaviour towards an 'attractive' girl and a girl he doesn't consider 'attractive' is hugely different.

Put it this way, if you're in a bar (if you go to bars) with a group of girls and a guy doesnt know any of you, he is going to pick out the most beautiful looking one first. Thats the truth of it. Now she may not be exposed but the point is that her looks are what he is basing his judgement on. Not her personality.

As a woman just observe this and next time you see a girl in a mini skirt or a low top observe the men around you who are following her with their eyes.

I read a very interesting article in the Irish Independent a few months ago , and even I think non-Muslim women are getting fed up with the whole thing.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/womens-freedom-yes-if-you-care-to-shake-your-booty-67871.html

HelterSkelter

InFront wrote:

Unfortunately lizzyvera not everybody has those honourable standards. I do think that Hijab does allow for more concentration on an individual's character.
Think about it this way, if you blindfold yourself you seem to pay more attention to the sounds around you. Sounds you might not usually notice become clearly audible as your concentration on your hearing is enhanced.
It's the same with Hijab - your appreciation of a personality becomes more enhanced (I think).

Anyway, just also wanted to point out that this isn't the main reason for embracing Hijab, it is love of Allah and his word.

InFront, don't you think the opposite is true of how many non-muslims living in the west view women who wear the hijab? Instead of concentrating on the person, their personality and their character, they will instead be distracted by the hijab. They will form preconceptions about the woman wearing the hijab (she's opressed, forced to wear it, etc etc)? That is my experience from talking to friends and family about the issue. I would go as far as to say that the hijab has the opposite effect it is intended to have when worn in a non-muslim country.

the_new_mr

Another great addition there Medina. Thanks for that! Once again, your words stand up better than mine as you're a woman

I think that, although a lot of people may seem women wearing hijab as oppressed, it's always nice to have those misconception smashed after someone interacts with them a little.

Wibbs

Medina wrote:

What I will say is that the message is more that people (male and female) both respect someone who is modest more than someone who is baring all.

I would agree there. It depends on what the particular society deems as modest too. Even in some quarters of Islam the way most Malaysian Muslim women dress(headscarf with often western garb for the rest) would raise an eyebrow and be considered immodest. For me I think that looks well, but that's just me. It seems to depend too much on interpretation. I mean a Malaysian woman considers herself Islamically modest and so does an Afgani woman in a Burkha. Which is correct? Obviously there is some leeway or every muslim woman would be dressed in a very similar way.

Lets be honest enough to admit that naked women are used to sell all kinds of products, that is because society views a woman who is beautiful and exposed as attractive.

True, but beauty of whatever form has always been used to "sell" something in a lot of cultures. I do agree that sometimes it's a bit mad nowadays.

To me this objectifies women as purely sexual beings

You see I would turn it around and consider that Islam may also objectify women as sexual beings too. So much so that they need to be covered up so as not to arouse unwarranted male feelings(among other more lofty ideals). IE women are "whores" for not covering up. If you remember the controversy with that Aussie cleric who suggested just that. I've heard that attitude from some Muslim men I've known. Not so extreme perhaps but there. Also the rules governing covering up are only strictly applied when a woman reaches puberty and can even be relaxed in the case of a very old woman. Either side of obvious sexuality the rules are relaxed. What does that say? Is that not sexualising women as well, just from a different angle?

and puts pressure on us all to conform to the 'sexy' look..and the result of this is girls wearing very little, covered in fake tan and make up even with their underwear on show a lot of the time.

I agree with a lot of that, especially when you see ten year olds dressed up in belly tops or tee shirts that announce "sexy girl". The mind boggles. The pendulum has swung too far in some ways. That's not to say I would welcome hijab for all either. there would be a balance to be struck

ultimately is mostly male fashion designers who are designing the 'couture' skimpy clothes that highstreet chains are imitating.

That would be valid except that most if not 90% of male fashion designers are gay, which is another debate as to why they would be sexually objectifying women.

Its not that men value an unveiled woman purely for her looks, of course thats not the case but it does form a large part of their behaviour towards her. A man's behaviour towards an 'attractive' girl and a girl he doesn't consider 'attractive' is hugely different.

Oh I agree here too(makes a change:D ) That goes for women with men too. Often when you take one yardstick away others replace it. I knew one Muslim bloke who had the whole arranged marriage set up for him. Very interesting to be around coming from the western perspective. Changed a lot of preconceived notions for me. One of the women met him with the families present and didn't warm to him at all, so that was the end of that. I gather afterwards she was quite vocal about it. Thought he was too short. Ouch!:D What I also found interesting was how the women in his family, who naturally saw the perspective bride(s) without the veil did take into account her beauty. They also were very concerned about the "quality" of their families. There was definitely a grading system. It was just the whole family was involved. Ya can't win. He ended up with a very nice woman in the end so... I can see the reasoning behind the idea that both families who know the couple would be a good judge of the compatibility of said couple. Compared to bumpin into someone at a nightclub. I wouldn't be up for it myself(mainly because I hate to think who my family would set me up with..), but I can see the reasoning.

Put it this way, if you're in a bar (if you go to bars) with a group of girls and a guy doesnt know any of you, he is going to pick out the most beautiful looking one first.

Generally true. that's what's valued in most societies. At least attractiveness is.That does vary from society to society of course and as I said earlier, even Islamic societies still have their yardsticks for this kind of thing. It's just not as meat market obvious.

Now she may not be exposed but the point is that her looks are what he is basing his judgement on. Not her personality.

Initially at least and unless you're of a very shallow nature the personality part kicks in quite quickly. I've known beautiful women, that after a ten minute conversation you wouldn't be inclined to take it further. In the end the personality is who you have to live with. Beauty fades, but a pain in the butt is for life.:D

As a woman just observe this and next time you see a girl in a mini skirt or a low top observe the men around you who are following her with their eyes.

Same with women and a rich man. They'll often pass up a better looking man for a more powerful one. You would even see this in Islamic societies where the rich men would be far more likely to have more than one wife from "better" families.

JimiTime

^^ I have to agree with alot of that sentiment. As a christian myself, I laugh when I watch music awards and you see people like beyonce, christina aguilera etc thank God in their speach, then proceed to do some sexual ditty in nothing but their thongs. However, I do think its so easy to pick out these extremes and say, 'see the hijab or burkah is the better way to go'. Its one extreme to the other. There is a middle ground, which involves being conservative, but not to the point where it brings to mind sexuality. Wibbs you make a great point in relation to the overdoing the covering up being sexual from a diferent angle. just want to reiterrate you point also about the sexualisation of children through fashion. I agree, it absolutely disgusting. Pre-pubescent girls with 'Sexy Time' on their belly tops. I was out recently and seen what looked like a 12 year old girl, with one of those thongs that came up out of her jeans. I just thought, 'wat must her parents be like?'.

the_new_mr

You might think that the hijab over sexualises (is that a word?) a woman but I would have to disagree with you. God knows that women are a thing of beauty and I'd have to say that the idea of a woman's sexuality being underlined by the hijab is more the outlook of a non-Muslim with misconceptions. Especially because one of those misconceptions is that people think Muslim men are all sex crazed maniacs who look at women as property to do with as they please. That all plays into the incorrect outlook.

I think that if you look at it as an expression of modesty then you'll see things differently.

And, even though it's off-topic, I too am appalled by the way little girls are going over board with the dodgy clothes etc. It's been getting worse and worse over the years and now it's just plain ridiculous. Don't know how the parents let it happen really. It's really society's fault. Plus, it's bad for the girls' self-confidence and self-esteem if they feel that the only way to be respected and attractive is to wear clothes like Britney Spears & Co.

Wibbs

the_new_mr wrote:

You might think that the hijab over sexualises (is that a word?) a woman but I would have to disagree with you. God knows that women are a thing of beauty and I'd have to say that the idea of a woman's sexuality being underlined by the hijab is more the outlook of a non-Muslim with misconceptions. Especially because one of those misconceptions is that people think Muslim men are all sex crazed maniacs who look at women as property to do with as they please. That all plays into the incorrect outlook.

Not at all. It doesn't sexualise a woman in the same way as a string bikini, but it does sexualise them to the extent that it promotes the idea that a woman who is exposed is a sexual being and that is too powerful and provocative to the men in the society and as such has to be hidden. That old idea about the Victorian men being turned on by the sight of an ankle. To cover something does sexualise it to a greater or lesser extent. With even the extreme of very provocative "western" sexualised dress, what is revealed is far less important than what isn't.

As a slight aside, I have also known too many Muslim men who regard non covered women as less than pure. The very fact that Hijab is regarded as the high point will naturally cause some to think that any less is considered impure, even if they know very little about the woman's character. That's as bad as somebody assuming just because a woman wears the veil she is oppressed.

I think that if you look at it as an expression of modesty then you'll see things differently.

What is modesty? What does that mean? It basically means covering up the sexuality and sexual signals of someone. That varies from society to society. Some Amazonian tribeswomen to both our eyes would appear to be pretty much naked except for a small belt. The removal of that belt would be very immodest for them. the removal of the belt would sexualise them in the eyes of men. The belt would only be removed in the presence of other women or their husbands.

Also as I pointed out females of a non sexual age are not required to wear hijab(some do of course). What does that tell us? Again it tells us that the outward sexuality/beauty of women is what needs to be covered up.

Why? Is it not the male reaction to such a thing that is considered the issue? If it wasn't, women would have to covered up equally in the presence of other women, but clearly they're not. They also aren't required to be covered up with close family members who are male. Again why not? Because their sexuality is not an issue within those groups. If the hijab had little to do with sexuality, then they would have to be equally modest with those groups as they are with the rest of the world at large. That to me is suggesting the idea that men can be uncontrollable if exposed to the sight of such things.

And, even though it's off-topic, I too am appalled by the way little girls are going over board with the dodgy clothes etc. It's been getting worse and worse over the years and now it's just plain ridiculous. Don't know how the parents let it happen really. It's really society's fault. Plus, it's bad for the girls' self-confidence and self-esteem if they feel that the only way to be respected and attractive is to wear clothes like Britney Spears & Co.

OT or not, I think we all agree on this one. Makes a nice change

Medina

Wibbs wrote:

Why? Is it not the male reaction to such a thing that is considered the issue?

I think this is probably the crux of the issue and also of the misunderstanding to be honest.

To my mind, yes the male reaction is an issue. But its not the entire issue.
ok so first a girl who is uncovered may (I stress may as I dont want to generalise all women) be more concerned about appearance than a girl who is covered. I mean we all have a little vanity, but as girls who practise Islam in this respect do not wear publicly either revealing clothing, make up, perfume or even pluck their eyebrows, I think being covered protects us women from ourselves on many levels.

Note that these are my personal feelings on the matter and are when I say 'us' I do not mean all Muslimas but a large number in general.

It protects us from our vanity becoming all encompassing.
It many ways it protects us from losing self-confidence with regard to looks as we don't have to be worried about it in public and don't feel this competitiveness or as lesser beings because we don't conform to the 'sexy beautiful woman' image.
It protects us from being sleazed over ...lets face it, once you're uncovered men are more likely to look and you have no control over who is gazing at you, and while women may be flattered that the 'hot stuff' from the office is looking their way they may be repulsed by the 'unattractive' guy looking at them.

A good example of this happened a few weeks ago in my office. A friend of mine was wearing a see-through white top with a white bra underneath and very low neckline so you could see her cleavage. We were talking about hijab and she said to me that her opinon is 'If you've got it, flaunt it'. I said ok, 'well how do you feel then about our boss (a middle aged, slightly balding guy) looking at your breasts?' She just said 'Ugh!!!'. Well I said, you can't choose who you flaunt it to then and you have to accept all types of guys perving on you.


And although yes being uncovered can provoke a negative male reaction or whatever, if a woman is happy to see a man gazing at her in 'that' way then she will probably encourage him. Either by flirting or staring back or whatever.
Within male/female relations it is mostly men who are the initiators and women who are the responders/encouragers. So we are also causing sin on ourselves by deliberately becoming sexually available in our body language etc.

Hijab prevents this mostly (but admittedly not always) because the man won't even look at the girl like that and so she won't flirt with him.

At the end of the day, the responsibility however is NOT purely on the woman to stop all this. Both men and women have to do their fair share. Women are required to wear loose clothing and hijab. Men are asked to wear beards and to lower their gaze.

And in truth, men have a much harder time resisting sexual impulses than women. I mean teenage boys versus teenage girls? Men are definitely more visual creatures while women are more emotional.

So to me it makes perfect sense and I feel I am protecting myself by wearing hijab, not just making it easy for guys to stay out of sin. That is just a by-product in my opinion.

the_new_mr

Well, as I was reading Wibbs' post, I was thinking to myself "I'll say that to that and this to this...." but, after reading Medina's post, I don't have to really say anything at all Only a woman can really express the viewpoint of a woman in this regards. Masha Allah (it is as God wills), your understanding of the hijab is excellent Medina. May God bless you and affirm your belief.

On a quick side note, I know what you're trying to say about modesty and so on Wibbs and that it's all relative.

I think Medina's example of her co-worker is very interesting. She clearly knows what she's doing and why she's doing it but is uncomfortable with certain people looking at her.

Anyway, I think I'd just like to underline the point that Medina was making that it's not just about stopping the men from sinning and looking and, as Medina pointed out, men are told to lower their gaze. It's also about modesty... which is the opposite of vanity.

Wibbs wrote:

As a slight aside, I have also known too many Muslim men who regard non covered women as less than pure. The very fact that Hijab is regarded as the high point will naturally cause some to think that any less is considered impure, even if they know very little about the woman's character. That's as bad as somebody assuming just because a woman wears the veil she is oppressed.

I'll say this: I think that wearing the hijab is the right thing to do but it's not right to say that a women who doesn't wear it is impure. She may be better. Only God knows. I guess you could say that wearing the hijab improves your position (if that makes sense?).

Anyway, I've rambled on too much. Think Medina's post covered things nicely really.

Wibbs wrote:

OT or not, I think we all agree on this one. Makes a nice change

Doesn't it?

Bottle_of_Smoke

The story's a bit biased & anti-west.

Medina wrote:

Human beings deal with us carelessly; they slight us. They don't grow us for our sake but to get pleasure from our fragrance and beautiful appearance. They throw us on the street or in the garbage can after we are dispossessed of the most valuable properties; brilliance and fragrance.

This piece (to me anyway) is suggesting Western men only have women around to have sex with while they're young & supple.... then it's divorce time when the lady gains some weight/wrinkles. Which is utter tripe because most men here stay with their wives until they die.

You might be astounded to know that the further I lay, the more beautiful and brilliant I become. That's what upraises my value in their thought. I live in a thick shell isolated in the dark seas.

To be honest I've never known a Muslim couple, have no experience of the dating culture among Muslims either. However from what I've known of Men I'd be somewhat sceptical of this.

This aside I quite like the idea of hijab. I think the way western women dress is often very smutty/tacky. If I was to assert this opinion in work everyone would say I'm a sexist prick.

I'm not going to lie I think the niqaab is appalling & nothing but a tool of opression. Same for Burqas However I can see why Islamic women like headscarves & "modest" dress. One of my friends won't cross the road to go to the shop without washing her hair & putting on make up. (That's genuinely not a lie)

I think headscarves look pretty refreshing compared to the way western women put so much effort into themselves. I had to do a project in college(on pork sausages ironically enough) with an Iranian girl, even though she was quite pretty & I got on well with her there was just no sexual tension between us. Could of been because I knew she was a Muslim (not that that's a problem for me but I know her rules) but it may have been solely because of the headscarve. Made things much more relaxed.

Reminds me of the way the rocker girls in school were more attractive than the fake tan girls. Not that they were aiming for modesty, just being themselves rather than trying to impress others

At the same time I'm really attacted to girls with nice/cool hair. It's a tough call

the_new_mr

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

The story's a bit biased & anti-west.

Actually, it is a little biased and perhaps a bit unfair in that regard but, on the whole, I liked it a lot and a lot of it is very true. Even if a lot of men stay with their wives there are still a lot who drop their wife for a younger mistress. It happens.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

To be honest I've never known a Muslim couple, have no experience of the dating culture among Muslims either. However from what I've known of Men I'd be somewhat sceptical of this.

This is actually somewhat true. The purer a woman has been kept, the more attractive the idea is to a man considering marrying her. I've seen it myself.

As for the niqaab, I personally don't mind it. I don't think it's a religious requirement though either. Ali Gomaa (the mufti of Egypt) said recently enough that the niqaab is bad for the society in that it takes away the tool by which a woman interacts with her society (her face). And he's not one of those scholars that's a bit dodgy either. Most people (all I know) respect Ali Gomaa and his opinions.

Bottle_of_Smoke

the_new_mr wrote:

Actually, it is a little biased and perhaps a bit unfair in that regard but, on the whole, I liked it a lot and a lot of it is very true. Even if a lot of men stay with their wives there are still a lot who drop their wife for a younger mistress. It happens.

Of course but I'm sure there's Muslims who do this too. Maybe moreso Muslims living in western countries. So although this might be an argument for hijab, it doesn't much help the cheater's wife.

This is actually somewhat true. The purer a woman has been kept, the more attractive the idea is to a man considering marrying her. I've seen it myself.

Yes would agree. this thread is a good example, scratch what I posted there. I completely misunderstood the part I quoted.

As for the niqaab, I personally don't mind it. I don't think it's a religious requirement though either. Ali Gomaa (the mufti of Egypt) said recently enough that the niqaab is bad for the society in that it takes away the tool by which a woman interacts with her society (her face). And he's not one of those scholars that's a bit dodgy either. Most people (all I know) respect Ali Gomaa and his opinions.

Yeah remember reading that, was very impressed with him coming out with that.

the_new_mr

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Of course but I'm sure there's Muslims who do this too. Maybe moreso Muslims living in western countries.

Well, of course there are Muslims that do this also and I'm certainly not defending them either but, statistically speaking anyway, more affairs tend to go on in the west. I think that if women are wearing hijab then the likelihood of them getting involved in an affair is much less. In this regard, the hijab works even as a protection against yourself as it can remind you of God and help you to be pious and help keep you away from sin.