NCAD 24 week evening photography digital imaging course - anyone do it?

Calina

Okay,

I'm starting to feel as though I've gone as far as teaching myself stuff as I can go so I need a little more guidance.

I'm looking at the possibility of this - I know the portfolio has to be in really soon but I can cope with that. The question is, has anyone done the course, what do they think of it, what did they get out of it, is it worth my while killing myself to get across from the airport to NCAD by 6.15 every evening?

Morlar

How expensive is that if you dont mind me asking ? I would be interested in hearing feedback on this course too.

leinsterman

The course was first run was last year ... I started it and attended most of the course but did not complete it ...

The pros for me were -

• Meeting others interested in photography (though I think boards is better for this)
• Learning how to use a dark room (which occupies most of the pre-Christmas activities) ... I should clarify this to say I learnt from one of the other students ... the lecturer ruined my first project due to her lack of care ...
• Doing project work (though I struggled after a while due to work commitments)
• Learning how to use a studio
• Learning about visual culture, sometime called History of photography ... but don't be fooled by the name ... I hated having to read Susan Sonntag ... she is an elitest muppet IMO ... some of the other stuff was excellent
• My skills as a photographer did improve
• Getting involved in boards (this is where I met Al ... though Elven played a role too )

The Cons for me where (and I am being brutally honest) -

• The facilities of the college are very poor and you don't get a whole lot of time to use them ... e.g. with 11 on the course we only had enough working developers for 5 meaning a lot of valuable class time spent hanging around (we had 5 working and 4 broken developers ... I use the term "working" liberally).
• The attitude of the college ... they held up everyone's access to the library because one person did not give in a birth cert and when we complained about the state of the darkrooms the pushed it back to the students ... saying we broke the equipment ... which was a flat lie since the equipment was broken prior to the course commecing.
• I did not get on very well with the main tutor ... she is all over the place and quite clueless ... most of her classes lack form, objective and structure and involve a lot of hanging around doing nothing
• The main tutor tried to teach digital (CS2) part ... but has no idea about using computers and even less about photoshop (this is not an exagerration) ... if your objective is to learn about digital processing techniques then forget it ... unless she has found a new lecturer for this part it is quite literally useless ... you'd learn more off the back of a cornflakes packet ...The final straw for me was when the digital tutor stated to me one day that using photoshop is cheating!! ... she restricted its use during digital projects ...
• One of the two studio lecturers is an arrogant twit (I won't name him but I will say this opinion was echoed by someone who had him at Griffith College) ... the other is excellent !!
• I did not get a sense of any sort of bond in the class it was quite disparate ... mostly due to the lack of any real structure around the course ...

On balance I'd say avoid this one ... especially if digital is your objective ...

leinsterman

Morlar wrote:

How expensive is that if you dont mind me asking ? I would be interested in hearing feedback on this course too.

Cost was €1300ish... not worth it ... I would have been better giving it to elven for a series of photoshop tutorials ...

Calina

Okay, thanks LM...appreciate the feedback.

Cameraman

Interesting feedback LM - I had considered doing this course sometime.

Obviously there were quite a few issues which annoyed you about the course - did you try and pursue any of these with the college itself
I.E. putting them all together in a format similiar to your post - as opposed to a one-by-one basis ?

If I had felt that way about a course, I would have been looking for a refund !

leinsterman

Cameraman wrote:

Interesting feedback LM - I had considered doing this course sometime.

Obviously there were quite a few issues which annoyed you about the course - did you try and pursue any of these with the college itself
I.E. putting them all together in a format similiar to your post - as opposed to a one-by-one basis ?

If I had felt that way about a course, I would have been looking for a refund !

... well you have to temper my experience with the fact that some of the others on the course enjoyed it a lot more ...

I did formally complain about a number of issues in the early days (mostly around facilities, rather than the standard of lectuerers) ... but their response was defensive rather than constructive ...

As regards looking for a refund ... after the very first photoshop tutorial I considered leaving and asking for a refund ... but I decided to cut my losses and continue with the studio and imaging culture elements ... which were quite good ... so I could not really argue for a refund ... In addition part of the main reason I did not complete the course was that my job went mental around November - March this year ... making it impossible for me to put time into the project work which form a substantial part of the course ...

One of the other students managed had a similar problem and left the course ... but she managed to defer until next time (September) ...

The other thing to consider is that this was the first time the course was run by the college ... some of the problems were perhaps teething ones... but not all of them ... I would consider myself as having a vastly superior knowledge of using Photoshop than their Digital tutor ... but I would not even begin to call myself remotely qualified to instruct others in its use ... especially not for money!!

Paulw

I personally always think it's easier to learn in small groups (3-4 people). I know there are a number of people on here who are brilliant with photoshop.

How about some group tutorials? Share knowledge? Maybe one or two hours every few weeks?

I know I probably have nothing to teach, but I'm willing to learn. I'll even buy the pizza and beer for the 1st event tutorial.

thebaz

ooch -- i see the NCAD are running summer courses in photography -- i'd like to get an artistic overview of photography -- and the NCAD is best Art college in Ireland , -- but following LM experience i'll avoid . thanks for heads up.

mikeanywhere

Paulw wrote:

I'll even buy the pizza and beer for the 1st event tutorial.

Bad bad bad bad mistake, oh and what date did you have in mind? Si, Jools, Sineadw along with some others will defo be there HAHAHAHA

leinsterman

It would be interesting to hear form Fajitas on NCAD ... I know he loves the place ... but I suspect part of the reason for this is the large number of nubile and liberally minded young ladies ... and the excessesivly long driking sessions ...

I have to admit .... I really did like the vibe of the place ... not to mention the campus itself ... which is an ample phtographic subject in itself ...

Paulw ... Elven ran one tutorial at my place for some friends of mine (rather than regular boardsies) ... the idea is great ... and worked really well ...

plus we have Guy gowan coming up so so follow up session to this may be particularly interesting ... so I'd be on for this ... and as ever my living room is available for such sessions ...

mikeanywhere

leinsterman wrote:

... and as ever my living room is available for such sessions ...

Much better option especially as it will allow everyone to see whats going on rather than straining over a monitor.

(for those who have been to Si's pad will know exactly what I mean :cool:)

elven

If anyone wants a copy of the stuff I went through with Simon's friends I can email it to ya to get an idea of what you can cover in a small group, in one (fairly heavy going) session.

Sorry, don't mean to thread-hijack.

melekalikimaka

elven wrote:

If anyone wants a copy of the stuff I went through with Simon's friends I can email it to ya to get an idea of what you can cover in a small group, in one (fairly heavy going) session.

Sorry, don't mean to thread-hijack.

pm'ed

back on topic


it seems alot of money, tbh, tho finding darkroom lessons is pretty tough, i'm on the lookout at the mo and its not that common and that course 'seems' in 'theory' excellent

leinsterman

melekalikimaka wrote:

it seems alot of money, tbh, tho finding darkroom lessons is pretty tough, i'm on the lookout at the mo and its not that common and that course 'seems' in 'theory' excellent

Try this -
www.hettysdarkroom.com

She is supposed to be absolutely brilliant ... I've seen some of her work first hand and it is impressive ...

Based in Dun Laoghaire ... also Cork

leinsterman

Actually come to think of it ... if anyone is interested in going to one of Hetty's 2 person weekend courses (at €240 each) please PM me ... I'd be on for it myself ...

Mikey ?

melekalikimaka

humm, sounds interesting

peter1892

I'm doing a B&W course in the Gallery of Photography (Temple Bar) at the moment. 4 sessions, 2.5 hours each. We're lucky in that the class is small (there's only 3 of us) so access to enlargers isn't a problem.

It's very enjoyable & I'm learning a lot - not just about developing & printing (which I'd never done before) but even about composition & how to use the camera properly.

melekalikimaka

yeah see i have no darkroom experience, gonna pick up a decent nikon film body and get into it, a dying art but sure so was latin in school

leinsterman

we could contact Hetty and see if she'll do a session (or sessions) for boards ...

mikeanywhere

leinsterman wrote:

Actually come to think of it ... if anyone is interested in going to one of Hetty's 2 person weekend courses (at €240 each) please PM me ... I'd be on for it myself ...

Mikey ?

Seems interesting, email me matey and we can touch base offline

leinsterman

mikeanywhere wrote:

Seems interesting, email me matey and we can touch base offline

Will do ... In fact I'll go one better ... i'll call you later ... or if you want to start up your pc, I'll skype you ...

sineadw

Pizza?? Beer???

mikeanywhere

leinsterman wrote:

I'll skype you ...

ooooggghh errr missus!!!

Fajitas!

Simon, was that defo your course? I thought yours was a general photography one? This being a lot more concentrated on the digital aspect.

Anyways, I think NCAD is great, but you get what you put into it - a lot of it is about self motivation, and not solely technical aspects to photography - it comes from a more artistic point of view. My course isn't Photography specifically, it's Fine Art Media, which is everything from video to animation, to Html and photography, I'm pretty much one of three photographers in the Dept at the moment (Set to change next year). Our tech is great, very very talented guy (As I'm sure Valentia will confirm ) but he dosn't have much to do with the night course.

The darkrooms in the college are not great, but they are usable, and it's possible to get fantastic results from the equipment there, as old as some of it is. Computer wise, there's some good spec machines, both Windows and Mac. There's a large format printer, and several large format enlargers. A fully kitted, excellent studio, and plenty of gear lying about.

leinsterman

Fajitas! wrote:

Simon, was that defo your course? I thought yours was a general photography one? This being a lot more concentrated on the digital aspect.

Nope I'm pretty sure my course was on Photography and Digital Imaging ... and for the avoidance of doubt here's the link -

http://www.ncad.ie/faculties/education/cead_pdi.shtml

Fajitas! wrote:

Anyways, I think NCAD is great, but you get what you put into it - a lot of it is about self motivation, and not solely technical aspects to photography - it comes from a more artistic point of view.

This is an important ... for all my complaining I definitely did not put enough into the course ... thanks for a crappy job that keeps me in expensive camera kit ... but often never gives me time to use it!!!

Fajitas! wrote:

Our tech is great, very very talented guy (As I'm sure Valentia will confirm ) but he dosn't have much to do with the night course.

The night course is administered by a lady ... who, like I said earlier ... should not be teaching digital ...

Fajitas! wrote:

The darkrooms in the college are not great, but they are usable, and it's possible to get fantastic results from the equipment there, as old as some of it is.

I got the impression that access for night students is no way near as good as day students (... and Al ... this is not a snipe at your hogging the Hasselblad ... we never even got to hear about it in the first place)

Fajitas! wrote:

Computer wise, there's some good spec machines, both Windows and Mac. There's a large format printer, and several large format enlargers.

I dropped out of digital after one class ... in which the lecturer proved to be unable to use one ... and lacked any comprehension of digital imaging :mad:!!!

Fajitas! wrote:

A fully kitted, excellent studio, and plenty of gear lying about.

The studio is good, though in need of repairs ... and was my favorite part of the course ...the lecturers (even the arrogant one) are superb also ...


You forgot the library Al ... the library is amazing ... but it is open to the public on request ... though you can't borrow books unless you are a student ...


I think the most important part of Al's point is the bit about getting out what you put in ... If I am honest with myself ... I let the engineer in me control the artist ... rather than the other way around ... my expectations may have been a bit on the high side ...

leinsterman

If anyone wants another view please PM me ... I'd be happy to ask one of hte other students if they are willing to take a call ...

Fajitas!

The studio's in need of repairs???

leinsterman

Fajitas! wrote:

The studio's in need of repairs???

Well bearing in mind the last time I was there was in January but -

Two of the three flash units were not working, one not at all the other could not be controlled
1 of the two flash power unit was not working
The cover on the big lightbox looked as if someone had dragged it through the mud
Half of the covers for the flash units are either broken or in need of repair ...


... there's a big scary larger than lifesize picture of some bloke in a black leather jacket on the wall that kept scaring all our models away!!!

Fajitas!

Hmmmm... I reckon someone didn't have the flashes plugged in or set up properly, nor the unit.

That's a cover of the softbox too, can be removed - stops it getting too dusty!

Which other covers are you talking about? The barn doors? Or snoots? They should all be fine, unless of course, it's different equipment used, but I doubt it!

And that bloke in the sexy leather jacket was luring the models TO him.

leinsterman

Fajitas! wrote:

Hmmmm... I reckon someone didn't have the flashes plugged in or set up properly, nor the unit.

Well if this is the case then that's anther black mark against two professional studio photographers who were teaching the course !!!!

Fajitas!

Quiet possibly, as IrishCrazyHorse will tell you, I can fly around the lighting set up inside there no problem!

mikeanywhere

Fajitas! wrote:

Quiet possibly, as IrishCrazyHorse will tell you, I can fly around the lighting set up inside there no problem!

Even the Nikon guys at the show recently can vouch for that muhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

irishcrazyhorse

I will vouch for alan,he knows that studio and lighting well,I can also tell you for a fact that our techs have nothing to do with the course,seeing as I took over the studio on many nights and days on end for my degree show and those doing the course were simple told to use the darkroom(might not be fair but my degree to them/me was more important) and that was from our tech and course head.
The darkroom facilitys might not be great but like al said,you can get some amazing results as he and have both have.
Not trying to be rude but if you want state of the art results just go digital or be ready to learn a hard but worthwhile skill!?

The course is only in its first year though and will only get better with time i would say,alan stated that only 3 used it,with me gone i think that makes 2 left!? I might be wrong but douth it to be honest.

Photoshop to me has been something that i was never taught even though I had tech to help me,cuz you only need to know what "you" need to know and thats where friends and places like Boards come into it.

Realised Ive been rambling so Ill stop now and probly do more 2morrow(been drinking for about 7 hours now)

Fajitas!

Even the Nikon guys at the show recently can vouch for that muhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bam!