10/20 cash omaha hand

Norwich Fan Rob

this hand occurred on i poker a couple of nights ago.
Now i dont play a huge amount of omaha, but im familiar with this Villian from holdem, and hes very good, solid , and quite tight. Id never seen him at Omaha before.

he was down a buy in of 2k, had reloaded, and i was up about 1400 when i limp re raised him with AAK3ds and got 840 in the pot preflop, flop then came 233 and we got all in, he had TTQ3 and rivered the Q for a near 4k pot, this was about 5 mins b4 the hand in question.
(now i was unsure about him, as he got got 1/4 his stack in pre with TTQ3)

anyway , id batled back to being even, when i was dealt JJ34ds with diamonds and hearts. Was just me and him in the pot, the flop comes 5d6cTd with 2 diamonds, i check call his pot bet, the turn is a 2c, giving me the nuts.
I lead for pot, which is 440, he thinks for ages and calls.
The river is the 9c, bringing back door clubs, i check it to him (perhaps a stopper bet of 400 or so mighta been better), anyway, he pot it for 1320............

is this ever a call?

ianmc38

This specific hand is almost impossible to comment on as it is 100% based on your read and the flow of the game. It's quite possible that he had a set, but could also have had 78xx that picked up a backdoor club draw.

kryogen

its very read dependant i feel, if he is normally a solid player in holdem doesnt mean he will be solid or have the same grasp in omaha. i find it hard to believe a player with a good omaha understanding cud get so much of his stack in the pot pre flop with TTQ3 in the first hand u described so id be pretty wary of him bumping into things like backdoor clubs!!! have u seen many of his hands in a showdown with other players and what kind of hands he was playing and wat way he bet them????

did he pause for long on the turn?? as i believe if he had an OESD and had picked up the flush draw on turn he may have called pretty quick or if he was aggro he may have even re popped u there! if he doesnt have a great knowledge he cud b naively bettin strong n a set here....

but against a quality opponent here he is either on a stone cold bluff or he has the flush.... he doesnt do it with a set, or any other hand really..... possibly the nut str8, wich u dont have any more as hes nt goin to put u on clubs really

i may fold and wait for a better spot, then again i cud have a moment of inspiration/madness and call! too read dependant for me to b conclusive i think!

Flipper

I'd instacall i think. Your river check looks so weak after betting a scare card on the turn so he's probably trying to steal it. UL if he backed into the clubs

Samba

It really stinks of 78c that turn card gave him food for thought and he may have been considering a raise.

I've called down too many times in these spots just to be flashed what you suspect they backed into.

It's a fold for me.

Killme00

This is nearly always a call for me. I think with a set and the flush draw on the turn he would raise.

halibut2

Its obviously player dependant as everyone says but as played i'd probably fold. Your mistake is leading the turn as on this kind of double suited board with a 10 and a 5 out there's very few cards you'll be able to safely lead at again on the river (non flush picture card). This means although you have the nuts its still a weak hand oop and the only value is check raising it so you're not left guessing for a big river bet. If he had something on the flop he's likely to bet again as the 2 isn't a scare card really (unless some donkeys playing the low end :eek: ) and if he doesn't bet its not really a problem cause its not the kind of hand you want to play a big pot oop with anyway unless you're allin.

Flipper i hope your "if your beat, unlucky" theory isn't the foundation of your new coaching profession

Flipper

Well, if you take up posting advice on here, you'll have me put out of business

carfax

halibut2 wrote:

Its obviously player dependant as everyone says but as played i'd probably fold. Your mistake is leading the turn as on this kind of double suited board with a 10 and a 5 out there's very few cards you'll be able to safely lead at again on the river (non flush picture card). This means although you have the nuts its still a weak hand oop and the only value is check raising it so you're not left guessing for a big river bet. If he had something on the flop he's likely to bet again as the 2 isn't a scare card really (unless some donkeys playing the low end :eek: ) and if he doesn't bet its not really a problem cause its not the kind of hand you want to play a big pot oop with anyway unless you're allin.

Flipper i hope your "if your beat, unlucky" theory isn't the foundation of your new coaching profession

Brilliant post.

sickpuppy

I would fold river as very often he does have the higher straight.Interesting view point from halibut about not betting the turn againest an aggro player when adraw hits alot of the time u check he bets hence the value when u checkraise.I guess thats the difference betweena winning 1 2 and a winning 25 50 and up player.Has anyone here ever sugguested checking the nuts because of what river will bring, and no offence flipper if you are thinking of getting players to coach id sugguest stop giving advice.

Flipper

sickpuppy wrote:

I would fold river as very often he does have the higher straight.Interesting view point from halibut about not betting the turn againest an aggro player when adraw hits alot of the time u check he bets hence the value when u checkraise.I guess thats the difference betweena winning 1 2 and a winning 25 50 and up player.Has anyone here ever sugguested checking the nuts because of what river will bring, and no offence flipper if you are thinking of getting players to coach id sugguest stop giving advice.

Ok, first off, my one line post was not "advice".... I was saying what I would do. Secondly, I never said how I would have played it (differently btw). Finally, myself and rob spoke earlier about the hand. PS: Halibut put the perfect play down on paper like most could not.

sickpuppy

Apologies flipper didnt mean to have a dig im sure there is loads you could help players with and if iwas not always broke id avail of lessons as you are aproven winning player at the highest level of the game in the country,what goes on in ones is often better not put in print no offence intended.

Norwich Fan Rob

thanks hali, and i like your line a lot........

i figured by me potting the turn, i more or less tabled my hand, and then by checking the river, i gave him every chance to have a stab at it.
however, he coulda called my on the turn, with something like 2 flush draws, he wouldnt necessarily raise, and he must know i probably have the made str8 and will call, therefore, he has no folding equity and needs to hit. I considered would villian bet full pot on the river here with clubs, if he thought i only had the str8, or maybe a smaller flush, surely more of a value bet would be appropriate.
However, in the end, i folded, so god knows what he had.

carfax

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

thanks hali, and i like your line a lot........

i figured by me potting the turn, i more or less tabled my hand, and then by checking the river, i gave him every chance to have a stab at it.
however, he coulda called my on the turn, with something like 2 flush draws, he wouldnt necessarily raise, and he must know i probably have the made str8 and will call, therefore, he has no folding equity and needs to hit. I considered would villian bet full pot on the river here with clubs, if he thought i only had the str8, or maybe a smaller flush, surely more of a value bet would be appropriate.
However, in the end, i folded, so god knows what he had.

Good fold Rob and fair play for posting, I learned a lot after a few posts there.

BigCityBanker

halibut2 wrote:

Flipper i hope your "if your beat, unlucky" theory isn't the foundation of your new coaching profession

ha ha.

MrPillowTalk

hali sucks donkey cock

ocallagh

MrPillowTalk wrote:

hali sucks donkey cock

QFT

ocallagh

even though I didn't post the above, I agree!