Help sky tv has gone black and white

rc28

Hi, I was wondering if anyone on here could help me.
Last night I turned on the sky box and tv as normal but it was displaying a fully black and white picture on every channel and menu. I then thought it must be the tv itself but it wasnt as the terrestrial channels on normal aerial were in full colour. I then thought it was the tv's scart but when putting a dvd on it, too, was in full colour. My sky box has two scart connections and either of them can be put directly into the tv even though one of them says "vcr". I started twiddling the scart lead into the upper one at the back of the box and it showed colour for milisconds at a time-at one stage I got it settled on colour but I noticed it was a very washed out/faded colour so i went back to moving the scart connection around again and at times I would get colour back again but with no sound or it would be the faded colour again. I then concluded that that particular connection must be broken so I tried the lower scart socket and it was still black and white! I lots of different scart leads around the place so I tried lots of them but it wouldn't make any difference. I cant really ccept that BOTH scart sockets at the back of the sky box both broke at the same time(what are the chances!!??) so does anyone have any ideas what has happened??
I really dont want to have to deal with the nightmareish sky support right now ! Thanks in advance.
Btw the sky box model is a Thomson similar to this
http://www.tracsat.co.uk/catalog/images/Thomson-DSI4214.gif

DigiDec

Change to a different scart lead, I used to have this a few years ago, used to start happening as soon as the digibox was tuned to the History Channel, but changing the scart lead corrected the problem.

rc28

DigiDec wrote:

Change to a different scart lead, I used to have this a few years ago, used to start happening as soon as the digibox was tuned to the History Channel, but changing the scart lead corrected the problem.

Sorry i posted that before I had finished writing. I have tried changing the scart lead many times.

Avns1s

Is there any colour in the signal from the RF outlet?

Is there a chance that it could be the TV? Does your video / DVD work ok?

rc28

Avns1s wrote:

Is there any colour in the signal from the RF outlet?

Is there a chance that it could be the TV? Does your video / DVD work ok?

I dont know how to use the rf outlet-is that the cable theat looks like a normal aerial one? If so I tried connecting it to a second tv but nothing came up-I'm obviously using it wrong. Yes the dvd/video work as normal in full colour.

byte

Initially, I was going to blame your TV configuration. I was thinking that the TV Scart was set to S-Video, which can turn pictures black & white.

However, you say VCR and DVD work OK. Unless they're configured to output S-Video?

Might be worth looking at the Scart options in t he TV menu all the same, just to be sure.

zilog_jones

Yeah it sounds like s-video to me too. If your Sky box is outputting s-video through SCART and your TV cannot handle s-video through SCART (i.e. it can only take it through the s-video mini-DIN socket or not at all) or the AV input is not set on the s-video input (it often has to be manually chosen - could be the AV symbol with an "S" on it, one of the AV numbers, or it may be called "Y/C" too.

Go to the setup menu on the Sky box and make sure the output is set as "RGB". Also, if your TV has multiple SCART sockets, make sure the one the Sky box is plugged into can handle RGB - usually when there's 2 or 3 SCART sockets, one is designed for S-Video, which means it can't handle RGB (which is better than s-video).

rc28

No it now sounds like a fault with the actual sky box because someone who was watching a sky channel yesterday(before I noticed the problem) told me that it slowly went from full colour to black and white?? I dont know what could have caused this. My tv is a basic one(with 1 scart socket) and I dont think it has "s-video" or whatever you call it, nobody messed with the settings or anything and as I said dvd's etc all have full colour through the scart.
Thanks for your help anyway.
Also, I tried that RGB thing suggested above but it didn't make a difference (it was set to pal at first, is this normal?)

byte

Since you've tried all possibilities now, I guess it must be a fault with the box.

As for the Box being set to PAL, this is the default setting. RGB just makes the picture quality better, though not in your case.

rc28

UPDATE: Ok we rang sky earlier and thankfully we weren't on hold for long. They're sending out someone on tuesday to fix it free of charge (the box is still under warranty) I still find it baffling that both scart sockets could break at the same time but if it's not the scart then it makes sense although today when I moved around the scart in the socket it showed a washed out colour again and stayed at that until I purposefully moved it.

byte

It could be a fault within the box as opposed to the sockets. Or maybe poor solder joints connecting the Scart terminals to the mainboard.

steveon

It sounds like your tv is set to NTSC standard, have a look at the remote for the tv and there could be a button to switch between PAL and NTSC..what make tv have u??

byte

steveon wrote:

It sounds like your tv is set to NTSC standard, have a look at the remote for the tv and there could be a button to switch between PAL and NTSC..what make tv have u??

Wow, I'm surprised I overlooked that. It's possible alright.

Sanyo TV's for one have a button on the remote control that changed between PAL/NTSC/Auto etc.

watty

But the TV aerial and DVD would have been B&W. Also RGB ignores PAL/NTSC.

Usually only the 1st SCART is RGB.

rc28

UPDATE:
The sky repairman came this afternoon and promptly disconnected the current box and put in a new one but it was still black and white! So obviously it was something wrong with the settings so he went to picture settings on the original box (after reconnecting) and it was on PAL but he then switched it to RGB and suddenly it was in full perfect colour again. I couldn't believe it was something as simple as that because I had already tried doing that after advice on here earlier but it had not made any difference. So now i'm really confused because
1) How did the box switch to PAL by itself in the 1st place while in the middle of watching tv as normal (not messing with settings or anything)
2) Why didn't this work for me the 1st time round when I switched it to RGB? And yes I did make sure to save the new settings.

Could it have worked today because it got a full reset after connecting a diferent box? Also if it was something as simple as changing the settings why did the picture occasionally go to a faded colour when twiddling the scart socket?
Anyway I'm happy it's fixed and the repairman was excellent- very helpful and quick even though i was wasting his time with something as simple as changing the picture settings!

Saruman

Might have been because it was powered off for a while.. It would have had to download from sky again. Did you not try powering it off and back on again?

rc28

Saruman wrote:

Might have been because it was powered off for a while.. It would have had to download from sky again. Did you not try powering it off and back on again?

Yup a few days ago I had plugged it out for a few hours and it did nothing. I even removed viewing card, cable from dish and various other things but nothing would change the black and white.

zilog_jones

There must be something wrong somewhere.
- When set to PAL you should be getting colour.
- When set to RGB and assuming there's nothing wrong with the connection there's no way you could be getting monochrome. A dodgy SCART cable (or sockets) when on RGB would either give you a blank screen, one or a multiple of the red, green and blue components missing, or just composite PAL (dunno if the Sky box still outputs this while on RGB mode - most things do).

I'd say either the PAL modulator in the Sky box is faulty (which would not be a problem on RGB mode), or there is something wrong with your TV - either it's in NTSC mode or it having trouble decoding the PAL colour. However, since you said your VCR works OK (which would also output composite PAL through SCART), this would suggest a fault at the Sky box.

2) Why didn't this work for me the 1st time round when I switched it to RGB? And yes I did make sure to save the new settings.

If you had the TV plugged into the "VCR" SCART socket on the Sky box at the time, it would not have made any difference. The VCR socket will not output RGB, as VCRs generally only take composite PAL inputs.

rc28

zilog_jones wrote:

If you had the TV plugged into the "VCR" SCART socket on the Sky box at the time, it would not have made any difference. The VCR socket will not output RGB, as VCRs generally only take composite PAL inputs.

That seems to be the only explanation for it because I was swapping around scarts at the time trying to get it to work, Thanks. But i still don't understand why it changed in the 1st place while watching tv going from full colour to B&W, nobody changed the settings.

zilog_jones

Something has probably failed in the box somewhere so. It's not a problem as long as you keep it on RGB, unless you want to record something. Decent DVD recorders have RGB inputs, but VHS VCRs never do.

rc28

I have a feeling there is still something very wrong with the box and that it will break again soon because I've discovered now that whenever I turn it on it is black and white for the first 2 seconds and while watching tv if you press the "tv" button (to go to teletext etc) it goes black and white! When you press the "sky" button it goes back to normal. Wtf is wrong with it? Either there's is a serious mess up in tv settings somewhere or a big problem with the box, the latter seems more ikely because no one ever touched the settings but if it is a problem with the tv settings itself then I am screwed because the only remote we have for it is one of those "one for all" remotes and I don't know how to access the scart settings with it.

byte

As you've tried two boxes, both showing same fault, I would've blamed the TV. But then... your VCR and DVD work.

When you press TV button on Sky R/C, the Scart signal changes from RGB back to PAL, which is why it's going B&W.

ixtlan

This really sounds like a TV/cable issue.

Just reviewing what you say you have done...

Have you tried connecting the Sky box into the other scart socket on the TV? Unfortunately usually only one socket is RGB enabled but it's worth testing.

How exactly are the VCR/DVD connected?
Have you tried viewing the VCR with the Sky box input? Which assumes the Sky box is connected to the VCR but perhaps not?

I'm thinking maybe the TV SCART socket is bad? At least you can duplicate the issue...

Ix

zilog_jones

ixtlan wrote:

Have you tried connecting the Sky box into the other scart socket on the TV? Unfortunately usually only one socket is RGB enabled but it's worth testing.

He said his TV only has one socket. RGB is working - that's how he's getting colour. Byte explained why he's sometimes still getting b&w - I noticed it changing to composite when you press the "TV" button too and never understood why.

rc28: To confirm whether it's the TV at fault - did you try playing a tape on your VCR, and is that connected via a SCART lead? Do you have a normal aerial for receiving local channels, and if so do you get colour with that? Also, with your DVD player, is that outputting RGB or PAL (composite)? There should be an option on the setup menu, or a switch on the back if it's an older one - see if you can get colour PAL through that as well.

watty

Is Sky box going via RF on TV setting and tuning slightly out? That will give a Colour or B&W picture and sometimes Colour that fades to B&W as the TV warms up.

zilog_jones

He says he's using a SCART cable.

rc28

Ok just to clarify, I'm using the scart cable, never touched the rf one. When I do put a normal aerial into the tv (that just picks up rte) it's in colour, likewise for vcr/dvd. Also the sky is only outputting in full colour when the picture setting is set to RGB. I've connected the dvd player into the vcr socket on back of sky box and that works fine too, dvd comes up on screen when sky box and vice versa as normal. The problem of the tv going to b&w when i press "tv" persists but I dont really mind as it's not really affecting my viewing, it's just a bit bizarre that it's acting like this all of a sudden. Nobody could have changed the tv settings as I said before the remote we have for it is one of those "one for all" remotes and I dont think there's a way to access the settings through it.
Thanks for all your help anyway.

watty

If you you were down the road I'd be fascionated to see it and understand what's happening!

rc28

watty wrote:

If you you were down the road I'd be fascionated to see it and understand what's happening!

Lol, the only thing that could be understood about the situation is that somethings gone wrong somewhere!:D

zilog_jones

watty wrote:

If you you were down the road I'd be fascionated to see it and understand what's happening!

My theory: The PAL encoder is borked. I've seen this happen on a (very broken) Playstation 2 as well, though it may have been outputting NTSC colour on a 625/50 picture (it is capable of PAL and NTSC).