Which wrestlers of the'80s or earlier would make it today?

Vince135792003

What wrestlers whose peak was in the 80's or earlier would be a star today?

I'll have to think about it a bit more but I'll start the ball rolling with Steamboat, Piper and Dusty Rhodes (early days, with less of the belly).

krudler

dynamite kid,imagine the matches he'd have with benoit and angle (in his prime too)

The Sparrow

I would say the majority of guys who got over in the eighties could get over now

ShawnRaven

Ricky Steamboat.
VR!

Double C

The Four Horsemen, Piper, Steamboat, Funk, Road Warriors, Ventura, Kerry von Erich, Snuka, Bockwinkel. Then you can look at Sgt. Slaughter, Hogan and all them gimmicky guys who would fare quite well for themselves.

Vince135792003

Double C wrote:

Road Warriors

I'm not so sure on that 1. I bought their dvd and some of their matches are hard to sit through. I think they were made for their era and theres nothing wrong with that.

Double C

They had such a cool look though, and their matches with the Anderson and Blanchard were pretty decent, at least the few I saw were.

MikeHoncho

Jake Roberts career was 10 years too early. If he was in his prime from the attitude era til now he would have been one of the biggest stars in the history wrestling.

Mr. Presentable

André the Giant. Jim Neidhart, Brett Hart, or were they early nineties?

I liked the Honky Tonk Man for his style. Midnight Express tag team.

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

I'm not so sure on that 1. I bought their dvd and some of their matches are hard to sit through. I think they were made for their era and theres nothing wrong with that.

But they have charisma... And they were booked right. Anybody with a bit of charisma and a good push will probably get over. Many of Cena's matches are hardly five star classics!

Vince135792003

I don't think LOD as a gimmick would get over in 2007 like it did in the '80s.

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

I don't think LOD as a gimmick would get over in 2007 like it did in the '80s.

I'd tend to agree here, even their 90s stuff was hard to watch, especially their 97 comeback.

VR!

The Sparrow

well i don`t think most eighties gimmicks would get over today... just like a lot of todays gimmicks would not get over in the eighties.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote:

well i don`t think most eighties gimmicks would get over today... just like a lot of todays gimmicks would not get over in the eighties.

Thats my point and the purpose of this thread.

In saying that I think Piper, Steamboat and Brody would be over today.

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

Thats my point and the purpose of this thread.

In saying that I think Piper, Steamboat and Brody would be over today.

Well, with respect, you didn`t say that in the title of your thread. Perhaps you should have titled it as which 80s gimmicks would get over today?!

In that respect I think you are right about Piper and Steamboat for the most part but not too many others. For instance Jake Roberts would get over I think, but the snake gimmick probably wouldn`t.

Tricity Bendix

I agree with the above. The 80's were wacky enough that two wrestlers could hit eachother with reptiles (Steamboat versus Roberts), and it is unlikely that such a specticle would get over today. Wrestling isn't a carnival anymore. Having said that, Steamboat and Jake Roberts would be huge if they were in their prime now. Its a case of the gimmicks not being likely to be accepted by today's audience, but the wrestling talent most likely would shine through.

ShawnRaven

Except they didn't hit each other with the reptiles! I have that match from Saturday Nights Main Event in 86 (Roberts with the snake and Steamboat with the so called Kimodo dragon that looked more like a crocodile!). They chased each other around with em for about 30 seconds, nothing they didn't do about four years later with Jake and Bad News with the Snake v Sewer rats angle that went f*ckin' nowhere.

Most of the gimmicks these days are rehashed from the 80s. Cena being the white boy who dresses and acts black, thats Akeem, Austin the Bald bad-ass who is a psychotic loner who trusts nobody, thats Bad News Brown. When Michaels started off, he was arrogant, fighting off the women left right and centre and did whatever he wanted, that's Flair.

Yep, in wrestling, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
VR!

chopperbyrne

validreasoning! wrote:

When Michaels started off, he was arrogant, fighting off the women left right and centre and did whatever he wanted, that's Flair.

They should bring that back.

"Ladies and gentlemen, Shawn Michaels has left the building."

ShawnRaven

Wouldn't work as a face, but as a heel it would be unreal. Especially if WWE went to Montreal! That would be so f*ckin' over!

VR!

Double C

validreasoning! wrote:

Yep, in wrestling, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
VR!

Quoting the awesome Alex Shelley!
Whether you meant it or not, kudos.

Other 80's guys that would be over might include Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, Andre, Iron Shiek, Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase, Rick Rude (maybe they peaked in the 90'S?) and tag teams like the British Bulldogs, the Midnight Express and the US Express.

Tricity Bendix

validreasoning! wrote:

Except they didn't hit each other with the reptiles!

The match ended with Roberts being hit with the lizard, did it not?

ShawnRaven

Not that i am aware of...
I know there's a dueling lizards section, but that was after the match had ended.

VR!

Tricity Bendix

Match, segment, its all the same thing. Either way, I don't think people would buy into it today.

ShawnRaven

b.ie polar wrote:

Match, segment, its all the same thing.

Actually no, it isn't. A segment happens either pre or post match. And there certainly wasn't any animal cruelty involved, ESPECIALLY in the 80s!

I know Jake was done for it a couple of years back but come on!
VR!

The Sparrow

Actually I think the million dollar man gimmick with Ted DiBiase would definitely get over now... well it is a lot of what Vince does anyway.

ShawnRaven

woooo232 wrote:

Actually I think the million dollar man gimmick with Ted DiBiase would definitely get over now... well it is a lot of what Vince does anyway.

Lets just call a spade a spade there and say that JBL did pretty well with it
VR!

Fozzy

Just some guys not mentioned who I think could do very well today are Barry Windham, Nikita Koloff and pre-90's Terry Funk. Post-90's Funk is over today anyway

The Sparrow

validreasoning! wrote:

Lets just call a spade a spade there and say that JBL did pretty well with it
VR!

Exactly my point... that the gimmick would get over today! Whether it is JBL or Vince or whoever its a timeless gimmick.

ShawnRaven

woooo232 wrote:

Exactly my point... that the gimmick would get over today! Whether it is JBL or Vince or whoever its a timeless gimmick.

More importantly, it will always get you over as a heel if it's done right. JBL was a nobody for nine years before he got that gimmick. Within four months afterwards he was the top heel on that brand with it.

And if Bradshaw can get over with it, ANYONE can. I'll hear allsorts of abuse for that comment but it's true. Everyone hated JBL when he was being pushed with that character at the start. They hated it even more when Eddie dropped the belt to him after 3 months into it. To BRADSHAW of all people, a midcarder for life?

Three years later he gets a back problem and everyone misses him in the ring! Now THAT is getting over

VR!

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

everyone misses him in the ring!

VR!

I don't. I think your underplaying how well he played the JR Ewing role. He had/has it down to a tee. In the ring he wasn't at the required level though and certainly I think he got elevated way higher and for way longer than he deserved to.

His new role as commentator is perfect for him.

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

More importantly, it will always get you over as a heel if it's done right. JBL was a nobody for nine years before he got that gimmick. Within four months afterwards he was the top heel on that brand with it.

And if Bradshaw can get over with it, ANYONE can. I'll hear allsorts of abuse for that comment but it's true. Everyone hated JBL when he was being pushed with that character at the start. They hated it even more when Eddie dropped the belt to him after 3 months into it. To BRADSHAW of all people, a midcarder for life?

Three years later he gets a back problem and everyone misses him in the ring! Now THAT is getting over

VR!

JBL had X-Pac heat plain and simple. People didn't hate him like they hate heels like Edge, JBL was hated because he wasn't regarded as being fit for the main event.

Likewise I don't miss his in-ring performances. They weren't anything special. The only watchable matches he had were ones that had gimmicks.

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

JBL had X-Pac heat plain and simple. People didn't hate him like they hate heels like Edge, JBL was hated because he wasn't regarded as being fit for the main event.

I don't agree with that. JBL had proper heel heat. Edge gets a lot of reactions that are due to him being a "cool" heel, in the sense that he can be funny sometimes and people like to see him. I'd say it's a safe bet that most fans didn't hate JBL because he wasn't fit for main-eventing - kids for example, and casual fans, they hated him because he was so good at being a heel, nothing to do with his in-ring ability (which I never thought was as bad as some people say). X-Pac got heat because he was perceived as boring by a lot of people and they just didn't care for him, it wasn't really anything to do with what X-Pac did. JBL made people hate him because of everything he did, I'm not sure exactly how to explain it right now but I see a difference. He was better at being a heel towards the end of his run though

The whole thing is that back 20 and more years ago, the sort of heat JBL got was the sort of heat every top heel got. It's much harder to get that sort of heat these days

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote:

most fans didn't hate JBL because he wasn't fit for main-eventing - kids for example, and casual fans, they hated him because he was so good at being a heel, nothing to do with his in-ring ability

Ding ding ding! We have a winner here! Would people have hated JBL as much as they did because he got the strap off Eddie Guerrero? Or all the skits against Mexicans, chasing em off from the border. Or the Mama Guerrero heart attack angle (which now is probs borderline bad taste given Eddie's passing, but nobody saw that happening at the time). JBL was given the ball to run to the top and thats exactly what he did. He had the mic skill, it's not like he had to use it being hired muscle (his character before that).

He got heel heat because of the character he morphed into. And thats it, no if's ands or buts. He tried different characters and nobody gave a **** about, JBL was a character people loved to hate, the arrogant rich guy playing off the "nickel and dime penny pinching peons" to quote DiBiase. And he played it down to a tee. There ya have it, the secret to JBL's success. 9 years of doing f*ck all and then a character people could relate to.

VR!

The Sparrow

I don`t think that JBL got X-Pac heat at all... Bradshaw was never hated as a face before he became JBL. Therefore you have to give the guy some credit for getting over even if it was just as a heel...

X-Pac on the other hand got heat no matter what he did whether he was supposed to be a heel or a face which is a whole different type of heat and something you don`t really want unless you are someone like Kevin Federline who was only brought in for one role.

As for Edge, I think he is the number one heel in the business right now. Anybody who can do a program with Cena and stop ppl booing Cena because they were too busy booing Edge is a great heel. And he has the sneaky heel persona down. Although I think Lita contributed a lot to him getting over as the R-Rated Superstar and to a certain extent he misses her as it made him unique.

Its kinda funny to think that my two fav ppl in any company are Edge and Christian all these years after they split up.

The Sparrow

validreasoning! wrote:

There ya have it, the secret to JBL's success. 9 years of doing f*ck all and then a character people could relate to.VR!

Actually that is the secret to almost every guys success... Find a character that is an extension of your own personality and ramp up the outrageous bits.

Just ask Steve Austin!

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote:

I don't agree with that. JBL had proper heel heat. Edge gets a lot of reactions that are due to him being a "cool" heel, in the sense that he can be funny sometimes and people like to see him. I'd say it's a safe bet that most fans didn't hate JBL because he wasn't fit for main-eventing - kids for example, and casual fans, they hated him because he was so good at being a heel, nothing to do with his in-ring ability (which I never thought was as bad as some people say). X-Pac got heat because he was perceived as boring by a lot of people and they just didn't care for him, it wasn't really anything to do with what X-Pac did. JBL made people hate him because of everything he did, I'm not sure exactly how to explain it right now but I see a difference. He was better at being a heel towards the end of his run though

The whole thing is that back 20 and more years ago, the sort of heat JBL got was the sort of heat every top heel got. It's much harder to get that sort of heat these days

Totally flawed analysis in my view. People hated X-Pac in a "Get the f*ck off my TV" way and it was exactly the same with JBL. This guy went from mid-card guy to main eventer in a matter of weeks and what's more ended up winning the damn belt. It was go away heat without a doubt. If Great Khali had won the title off of Cena it would be the exact same story. People wouldn't be booing him because he's a 7 foot tall monster - they'd be booing him because he's a donkey in the ring and would be a disgrace to the title.

When JBL went to the first One Night Stand for example he wasn't reviled because the fans were so agaissnt his character - he was reviled because those fans knew he was a waste of space who never deserved his long title run.

He will go down as one of the most undeserving champions of all time. A classic example of where little talent and big political sway will get you.

ShawnRaven

woooo232 wrote:

Actually that is the secret to almost every guys success... Find a character that is an extension of your own personality and ramp up the outrageous bits.

Just ask Steve Austin!

I see your point, the difference though is Austin did quite a bit in WCW before coming to WWE. Bradshaw did nothing in singles of note, unless you count that god awful Hardcore championship run in 2002 before getting injured.

Had Bradshaw not have that stock exchange appearance on NBC around that time, he'd have been f*cked for a new character.

VR!

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Totally flawed analysis in my view. People hated X-Pac in a "Get the f*ck off my TV" way and it was exactly the same with JBL. This guy went from mid-card guy to main eventer in a matter of weeks and what's more ended up winning the damn belt. It was go away heat without a doubt. If Great Khali had won the title off of Cena it would be the exact same story. People wouldn't be booing him because he's a 7 foot tall monster - they'd be booing him because he's a donkey in the ring and would be a disgrace to the title.

When JBL went to the first One Night Stand for example he wasn't reviled because the fans were so agaissnt his character - he was reviled because those fans knew he was a waste of space who never deserved his long title run.

He will go down as one of the most undeserving champions of all time. A classic example of where little talent and big political sway will get you.

Using One Night Stand as an example is flawed straight away, you couldn't ask for a more un-WWE like audience than that. The typical WWE fan generally have different priorities than the incredibly smarky fan that attended that PPV.

It seems to me that you're letting your personal opinion of JBL as an undeserving champ cloud you overall argument. JBL was well able to generate his own heat through his promos, in fact it was his great strength as a champion, he didn't need the heat of the odd work rate enthusiast to get him over.

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote:

Using One Night Stand as an example is flawed straight away, you couldn't ask for a more un-WWE like audience than that.

Using that audience was deliberate on my part as they were not casual fans who wouldn't know the difference between a good heel attracting real heat and a bad heel who attracts go away heat.

flahava wrote:

It seems to me that you're letting your personal opinion of JBL as an undeserving champ cloud you overall argument. JBL was well able to generate his own heat through his promos, in fact it was his great strength as a champion, he didn't need the heat of the odd work rate enthusiast to get him over.

Generating heat through promos doesn't disguise the fact he had X-Pac heat. It just meant he could piss off the fans even more who already knew he was undeserving and that he sucked balls. He could talk I'll give him that but that's it. That's why he's best in the commentary booth.

Answer me this - who did he elevate during his run? Who got a great rub due to a feud with him? No one. That doesn't make him a good heel champion as far as I'm concerned. The fact is he had to be carried his entire run and he had sh*tty matches when no gimmicks were involved. His Summerslam match in Toronto in 2004 was a classic example of non-casual fans rejecting him and his crappy match.

One of the worst champions in recent history in my opinion and the length of his run was as important to his heat as anything. Kind of like how people were willing for the Honky Tonk Man to lose the IC title. It wasn't because he was a good heel, it was because people didn't feel he was befitting of the title.

I can't believe people are defending this guy. I seriously do not believe that even one person on this forum back when Eddie Guerrero was the champion felt JBL ought to have the belt instead.

flahavaj

Surely the point is that an audience such as that makes up maybe 5-10% of the typical viewing audience, so their influence is negligible. So,therefore youre admitting that even if they WERE giving him X Pac heat, the heat he gets from the rest wouldn't be so, as they're unaware of its existence!!!:p

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote:

Surely the point is that an audience such as that makes up maybe 5-10% of the typical viewing audience, so their influence is negligible. So,therefore youre admitting that even if they WERE giving him X Pac heat, the heat he gets from the rest wouldn't be so, as they're unaware of its existence!!!:p

It's not about whether they're aware of its existence - it's about whether they are engaging in it at all.

You can put the WWE title on Funaki and leave it there for close to a year and people will boo him unmercifully. It wouldn't make him a good heel though.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

It's not about whether they're aware of its existence - it's about whether they are engaging in it at all.

You can put the WWE title on Funaki and leave it there for close to a year and people will boo him unmercifully. It wouldn't make him a good heel though.

Yes but JBL IS a good heel thats the difference!!!!!! Poor example.

Fozzy

X-Pac heat implies the fans have no interest in seeing a wrestler at all. I didn't think JBL deserved the title when he first got it, but I can remember watching every week because I wanted to see him lose so bad. I wanted Eddie to beat him during those ppv matches and I remember getting so worked up watching them. That is what a heel is meant to be doing. I was behind Eddie more than ever, just because of who he was facing

With X-Pac, people were just fed up with watching him. With JBL, they legitimately hated the guy. JBL is one of the best examples of a heel in the last 5 years. Like I said originally, that's the sort of heat great heels would get 20 or 30 years ago, but it's so lacking these days, partly because the fans know so much about the business and partly because there are so many "cool" heels who people like to cheer. JBL did an amazing job I think. He was able to get people to really hate him, and not just because they weren't interested in him. They wanted to see him get his ass kicked

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

JBL did an amazing job I think. He was able to get people to really hate him, and not just because they weren't interested in him. They wanted to see him get his ass kicked

Look at the buy rates he drew on top. He wasn't amazing. He was a below average draw.

triple h

Fozzy wrote:

there are so many "cool" heels who people like to cheer. JBL did an amazing job I think. He was able to get people to really hate him, and not just because they weren't interested in him. They wanted to see him get his ass kicked

I agree with fozzy on this one. I like the heels, always did, but JBL, well...i half hated him, he was and still is great on the mic and i always loved that. But when he was wrestling i hated him.

Gerard.C

What's a JBL?

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote:

Look at the buy rates he drew on top. He wasn't amazing. He was a below average draw.

Maybe for the time, but his 9/10 months on top drew better on average, judging by tv ratings, than the following two years from what I can see. I understand that the main-event is what should sell most people on a ppv, but I don't think he was helped by the undercard at all. When he won the title it was at a SD ppv, but he wasn't even in the main event. A year after from when he first won the title he was still seen as a main-eventer, and buyrates and ratings were higher than what they were before he ever became champ. More people paid to see JBL vs Batista in 2005 than HHH vs Shawn Michaels in a Hell in a Cell one year earlier! By that time people definitely did want to see him get his ass kicked

JBL vs Batista also drew better than the next Raw ppv, which was headlined by Angle vs Cena, and better again than the SD ppv after that, which had Eddie vs Batista. Judging by those figures, JBL was a bigger draw than Eddie! 279,000 vs 224,000. That's almost 25% more people paying to see JBL at the top of the card

Vince135792003

First off, I think its unfair to say 1 person is a better draw by going off 1 pay per view. It just doesn't work like that.

Plus if you think someone did an amazing job because they drew higher ratings than what Smackdown was doing last year, i think thats a little over the top. Smackdown was in a coma.

Heres a how he drew for single brand shows:

2004 GAMB versus Eddie: .57
2004 No Mercy verus 'Taker: .475
2005 No Way Out versus the Big Show: .59
2005: Judgment Day versus John Cena: .56
2005: GAMB versus Batista: .58

Theres nothing amazing there. Its all mediocre. Now I'm not saying he should be drawing 400K + buys when he's on top. Nobody in wrestling can do that month after month. Its not amazing though.

He was just a guy who held the belt.

In 50 years time, I see very few people going "Well you know Triple H was a pretty good bad guy in 2000 and Edge wasn't bad either but that JBL sure was amazing". Just can't see it.

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

In 50 years time, I see very few people going "Well you know Triple H was a pretty good bad guy in 2000 and Edge wasn't bad either but that JBL sure was amazing". Just can't see it.

Depends on your definition of a heel.
A heel is basically is someone to boo, someone to hate, someone to give grief to on the way down the ring. Does JBL do that? He certainly does, Does he do it well? He certainly does!

Better than Edge the first time he tried the heel turn, put it that way. Edge had a ton of "x-pac heat" before he hooked with Lita, nobody gave a rats about his heel turn. In fact, nobody gave a rats about him when he returned from injury because he was gone too long for anyone to care. However once he hooked up with Lita, that all changed.

JBL started developing heat when he basically got in that storyline where he'd suck up to the GM to keep his job while his partner got fired. The incident in Germany where he did the nazi walk, although cheap heat as it is, it's not x-pac heat. He got a ton of heat for getting the title off Eddie Guerrero at GAB 04, was it x-pac heat? Nope, because people didn't want him off the TV, they kept tuning in to see who the f*ck was going to get the belt off him next! Thats more Honky Tonk Man heat to me. People cared enough to want to see SOMEONE take the belt off him.

And people wonder why Cena got so over with such a stale gimmick at Mania 21?

VR!

Fozzy

JBL might not have boosted buyrates, but I don't think he brought them down at all. Nobody else has done an exceptionally better job than JBL on SD. SD's always been treated as the B show by WWE anyway, so you'd expect buyrates for their ppvs to be a bit lower than Raw's. But the fact is that no SD champ has drawn better than JBL since then. Buyrates on average are down since he was champ. Just doin my research here, the only SD ppv since JBL was last in the main event (which was GAMB 05) which drew significantly better than the ppvs during JBL's run was Armageddon 05. And the champ at the time wasn't on the ppv. So no SD champ has drawn better since

validreasoning! wrote:

Better than Edge the first time he tried the heel turn, put it that way. Edge had a ton of "x-pac heat" before he hooked with Lita, nobody gave a rats about his heel turn. In fact, nobody gave a rats about him when he returned from injury because he was gone too long for anyone to care. However once he hooked up with Lita, that all changed.

I'd forgotten about this, but I used to dislike Edge quite a bit. He had X-Pac heat with me. I was never a fan of him when he was with Christian and I wasn't a fan of him during his face runs before and after his neck injury. Then his heel turn came along and I found him kinda boring still. But then the affair with Lita came to light. I was a big fan of Matt Hardy, so that made Edge an instant heel to me. I hated the guy, probably more than I hated JBL, but it was the same feeling. Whoever either of those guys faced, I was completely behind their opponent. Wrestling at its best is about an emotional connection with the face where you want them to win no matter what. With heels like JBL and Edge back then, that emotional connection was present in most of their matches. Personally, I can't remember JBL's matches with Eddie and Batista being that great, but I can remember being totally into them like I used to be with Mick Foley's matches. Just to make the distinction again, I don't think anyone was ever really into X-Pac's matches and dying for him to lose. I do think they were like that with JBL

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote:

I don't think anyone was ever really into X-Pac's matches and dying for him to lose. I do think they were like that with JBL

Depends... he'd a couple of really good matches with Jericho at the end of 99. Also as Syxx he had an incredible ladder match with Eddie Guerrero at Souled Out 97 and his independant stuff as the Lightning Kid is worth checking out.

It's just too bad that he got lazy and arrogant as he got into the big leagues.
VR!