Advice on a Euromillions syndicate

mikemac

I understand that any replies aren’t legal advice.

I run a euromillions syndicate at work and there are 14 members.
Everyone pays €2 every week, I buy the tickets and then scan and email a copy of the tickets to everyone on Friday afternoon in case of any disputes.

I’m had great trouble getting 2-3 people to pay me each week and I was tired of paying for them so a few weeks I sent around an email saying to pay up each week or you can’t share any winnings.
If someone was away on holidays, they can pay for a few weeks in advance. An exception is if someone was out due to sickness, injured, family bereavement, etc they could pay the arrears when they come back.

I’d like to know can I put people out of the syndicate for non-payment.
2 people paid last week but haven’t paid me this week depsite being asked twice and I don’t want to pay their €2 for them.

If we win the Euromillions jackpot, can I tell them they are getting nothing. Seems fair to me but I remember a high profile case a few years ago between the five men who won €2,000,000 and the guy who never paid still got a full share. I disagreed with the decision of that case

There are no signed contracts. Just emails from me every week showing our results and reminders to pay up by the following Friday.

seamus

If you come up with a formal few lines about it, and email to everyone, then there can't be any confusion.

If you leave it open to personal interpretation, then you can get screwed.

We have a syndicate (of sorts) in our place.

The rules are similar to yours (this is just them off the top of my head):

1. If you don't pay before the tickets are bought, you're excluded from that week and can't get any winnings.

2. If you are unable to pay due to sickness or unplanned absence, you can pay in arrears.

3. If you plan to be absent, then you must pay in advance for any weeks you're going to miss.

I don't see any reason why you can't eject someone from a syndicate for non-payment. It has happened quite a few times that people involved in a syndicate, but who had not paid, still got a share of the winnings. It's still an informal agreement, but even that can be "enforced" in court.

If you share out any winnings after a pot, and make it clear that every week only the people who pay are entitled to winnings, then it doesn't get messy.

What a lot of syndicates do is take any winnings, and put them back in the pot. Legally, once a person has paid *some* money into a syndicate, they're entitled to a share of the winnings. So this is where it gets messy. For example;

Say Joe is in a syndicate with ten other guys. They make an agreement that every week, a minimum of €30 (€3 from each) will be spent on Lotto tickets. Any winnings under €30 go back in the pot, and anything more gets shared out.
So one week, they all pay their €3. They win €15 from it. So that €15 goes back into the pot. Everyone now pays €1.50 to bring the pot back up to €30. But Joe doesn't pay (for whatever reason). And they win the jackpot on their €28.50 ticket.

Joe still has a claim on that jackpot, because €1.50 of that €28.50 stake is his. There's no legal back door on it.

Now, whether Joe gets 10% or 5% of the winnings, I can't say.

UrbanFox

Is there any irish case law on lottery syndicates in relation to when things go wrong ?

jhegarty

How about get everyone to pay up for 3 weeks in advance now , as buffer for when they can't pay... the day your buffer runs out you are out....

norm

I'm also part of a syndicate in work were 2 euro per week is deducted from our salary, and is listed as so on our payslip. No arguement. Leave the job, leave the syndicate.

norm

I'm also part of a syndicate in work were 2 euro per week is deducted from our salary, and is listed as so on our payslip. No arguement. Leave the job, leave the syndicate.

Jo King

A syndicate is a relationship based on contract. as such it can be ended in the same way as it began. You can agree to dissolve the syndicate at any time. You can set up a news one at any time. It is possible to have syndicates which last for only one draw. By asking people to sign when they pay for each one off weekly draw it is possible to exclude any defaulters.

Mr. Presentable

Good call. The syndicate is of one week duration only, and consists each week of those who are paid up. Don't pay, not a member.

Binomate

Since you said "I sent around an email saying to pay up each week or you can’t share any winnings" the court may recognise that these are the terms of your contractual agreement with the participants.

If in the case someone has paid consistently and they miss the wining payment for one reason or another, it may result in obiter dicta where the person is entitled to his/her share.

mikemac

Thanks for the advice

I sent around an email with the rules on Friday.

The main issue was rollovers. I wanted to avoid at all costs a situation where someone pays one week and we reinvest the winnings. Then if we won the next week and they didn't bother paying they'd have a claim as their rollover money was involved. I'd have to work out fractions of shares and that's just too messy.

The new rules state that even if you have rollover money, if you don't pay then you're out and no point moaning as in fairness I send three reminder emails during the week.

Obvious exception is if you're out for family bereavment, accident, etc.
Holidays is not an excuse as you should have paid in advance.

All sorted and I'm no longer going to pay for the wasters who are always slow to pay.

Nothing won from 14 lines last night -there's always next week:)