4bet pot

phantom_lord

We're both playing 120ish. We've player a lot of hands together, generally try to avoid him, he plays 19/16 3bets a lot pf. either i fold or i 4bet and he folds. I think we had an aa vs kk encounter, that was the only time we're got it all in preflop.


I've aks mp, make it 5 to go after a limper, he makes it 16, folded about to me, I raise to 40. he calls


Flop:
10Qxr


I open shove?

valor

no give up

cardshark202

valor wrote:

no give up

.

bops

i don't see why not - it's only a pot-sized bet, if you get called you have outs, if you check you are dead - my silly view is that you were happy to get it AI PF anyway

BuChan

i'd probably do the same in this spot.

pok3rplaya

he has AA/KK

BuChan

pok3rplaya wrote:

he has AA/KK

yeah this is very likely.

delanec8

pok3rplaya wrote:

he has AA/KK

Considering the size of the 4bet i dont think villain has to have AA/KK. PL has essentially given him almost 6/1 on a call because i imagine you open push almost everytime here and villain would know that having played with you a bit.

4bet bigger for me and defo open push

ianmc38

He has QQ-AA here almost always

Flushdraw

Youre sort of narrowing his range to JJ here because i think everything else he calls your 4bet with has you beat on this board.

Maybe PL is the villain in this hand

robinlacey

normally if i end up with AK and roughly a pot sized bet to go in,i shove,however in this situation his whole range has you crushed and none of it is folding-the only reason to shove here is to try and fold out another AK,which probably would have pushed anyway.

i'd just give up

AmarilloFats

I think 40 is a horrible size for your 4 bet...make it 60

pok3rplaya

AmarilloFats wrote:

I think 40 is a horrible size for your 4 bet...make it 60

what does 60 accomplish that 40 doesn't?

fuzzbox

I give up, but I also raise to more than 40 preflop, as that size only leaves him 24 to call, but making it maybe 50 would be better.

Once he calls, I'm done. He never folds a better hand and hardly ever has a worse hand.

robinlacey

i think 40 is fine,it doesn't matter a huge amount at .50/1 where there isn't much 4betting light going on,but i think in general 4bets should be less in terms of multiples of the 3bet than 3bets should be in multiples the original raise,(can't think of a less awkward way to phrase that!) since when you 4bet he still doesn't have any implied odds to call,so you may as well make it less,which saves you a few bbs when you're bluffing and also might tempt him into calling a bit more often when you want a call..

phantom_lord

i made a mistake in the op, effective stacks were 107. so i shoved for 67, still terrible?

phantom_lord

i don't really see any adavantage in raising more than to 40. I think his range for shoving/calling/folding is exactly the same.

valor

40 is fine, shoving is bad with any stack sizes really now you got here

HiCloy

I def give up on that flop

Marq

what range did you put him on after he called your 4-bet?

phantom_lord

him calling really threw me off, i've never seen him call a 4bet and i'd expect him to just shove aa/kk and probably qq. I don't know tbh.

cardshark202

You will find a lot of players call a 4bet with AA/KK as its often more profitable vs aggressive players.

phantom_lord

he folded btw. ak? maybe kk putting me on aa/qq...