Derren Browne's sketch on psychics/fortune tellers

faceman

I like Derren Browne. There was a repeat on last nite of which show where he told the fortune of 15 different people in 3 countries and they all said it was at least 75% accurate. He then burst their bubble by going on and showing that everyone had the same reading.

Anyone ever seen this before? Its very good. Where is the line drawn however between Browne's performance and where a true psychic excels?

Zillah

Do you want the honest answer?

I can't tell the difference. Nothing I've seen a psychic do can't be faked by a performer.

Aisling&M

From readings I have gotten and given I can tell you there is a big difference.

Fakers can make general statements like "I see you've had sadness in your life" whereas a good psychic will say " I can see the passing on from the physical side of life a woman who feels like your sister in the last year".

That is the difference.

When you watch the shows that dis-credit the psychics by 'giving' readings then maybe you should discern the specificity of the reading and then compare it with the specificity of a genuine psychic reading.

I haven't seen the Derren Browne experiment as mentioned above, but i've seen numerous others.

When you go to buy a car, do you trust a guy who only asks, "do you want a car or a van" or someone who asks, "what make, model, options etc would you like?"

faceman

Its a hard to discuss this if you havent seen the episode but what makes it special is that he doesnt provide a vague reading for the individuals involved. Its quite specific. (Some of them read excerpts)

Smellyirishman

Yeah, it was a brilliant show. (as usual)

Aisling, are you saying that the difference between a "faker" and a "good" psychic is that they can fluff out their sentences and words a little? They are still not giving you hard facts, it's cold reading in some form or another.

Aisling&M

I used two pretty simple sentences that would show the difference.
If you had lost a sister in the last year you could understand both to be true but there is a far smaller possibility of a faker being able to correctly 'guess' the right info enough to give a statement saying the words that do represent cold hard facts.

Again, the difference could be:

Faker: I see good things for you in the future and maybe new job or something you would do that is different.

Psychic: I see a new job in telemarketting that will be made available to you in 3-6 months from now. I see the man who is offering you this job and he has short dark hair parted to the left and is wearing a distinctive blue and white striped shirt. I see the office being based in the south of the city centre.

both of the above statements could be true but I'm sure you can see the difference in clarity and succinct verbeage. no?

(as a side note I apologise if I embarked on this discussion on the wrong thread.)

Does anyone have a link to that show?

Zillah

Aisling do you honestly believe that a man like Derren Browne couldn't trick you if you didn't know he was a performer? Have you seen these guys in action? Its terrifying how easy it is to confuse the brain.

Plus, you have to remember the nature of cold reading. You only remember and pay attention to the correct elements. If you see ten psychics you'll probably think that one or two are genuine and that the others are fake or not very good. But even if these were ten people who only do cold reading, no special powers at all, a few of them are likely to come across as if they're gifted. Similarily, the couple that convinced you probably only said a few things that were spot on, other stuff that was less accurate or plain wrong kinda gets left at the sidelines.

Aisling&M

I have no doubt that Derren Browne is gifted enough to baffle me and perhaps convince me of his credibility if I wasn't aware of him. But just because it can be faked I don't believe it can't be done legitimately.

And I'm sure to remember the bad as well as the good. When i give a reading, I get the client to confirm and point out anything that is wrong because it's VERY important to me that I mislead no-one. Thankfully it is very infrequent that I read something that doesn't make sense to the client.

Simplifying once again, we are all aware that there are a lot of cars put together in a ramshackle way from bits and pieces of other cars and painted nicely and sold as scams. And we all know that there are legitimate vehicles in the world. Does this mean you never buy a car because it might be a scam?

Just because it can be faked does not mean it can't be real.

There is quite a difference between a sun-tan and a fake-tan isn't there? That is the distinction I see between credible psychics and fakers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way easily fooled and I am highly scheptical of anyone offering anything I can't easily understand........which is why I find the spirit world must have a sense of humour allowing me to be able to do it.
So, I can understand your anxiety in 'trusting' a profession which is very easily corruptable.

CodeMonkey

Aisling&M wrote:

I have no doubt that Derren Browne is gifted enough to baffle me and perhaps convince me of his credibility if I wasn't aware of him. But just because it can be faked I don't believe it can't be done legitimately.

But if it can be faked so convincingly then one would wonder if the psychic doing your reading is just getting lucky. Are there psychics who can consistently do it with a high degree of accuracy with everyone with no "off" days?

I remember reading a thread here where people were recommending psychics. Person A would recommend someone and then person B would say the psychic wasn't that great when B visited her for a reading. You do readings yourself, what would you think is your accuracy rate?

And I'm sure to remember the bad as well as the good. When i give a reading, I get the client to confirm and point out anything that is wrong because it's VERY important to me that I mislead no-one. Thankfully it is very infrequent that I read something that doesn't make sense to the client.

That depends on how specific the stuff you are saying is. I am not asking for proof of your abilities but it might just be that you are in a habit of saying stuff that are vague enough that it'd make sense to your clients without conciously thinking about it. I am not accusing you of being a fake but I've wondered before if psychics who believe they have this ability might just be very good at cold reading without realising it and mistaking it for paranormal abilities. Is that a possibility?

Simplifying once again, we are all aware that there are a lot of cars put together in a ramshackle way from bits and pieces of other cars and painted nicely and sold as scams. And we all know that there are legitimate vehicles in the world. Does this mean you never buy a car because it might be a scam?

I'd imagine there's not that many rebuilt cars out there compared to legit cars. You would also get the full service history of the car to go with it plus the service centers and mechanics can usually tell what's been done to a car. It's hard to get scammed unless you are looking for cheap deals. Is that really the same as going to see psychics? Just saying, not a great analogy.

Aisling&M

CodeMonkey wrote:

But if it can be faked so convincingly then one would wonder if the psychic doing your reading is just getting lucky. Are there psychics who can consistently do it with a high degree of accuracy with everyone with no "off" days?

I remember reading a thread here where people were recommending psychics. Person A would recommend someone and then person B would say the psychic wasn't that great when B visited her for a reading. You do readings yourself, what would you think is your accuracy rate?

That depends on how specific the stuff you are saying is. I am not asking for proof of your abilities but it might just be that you are in a habit of saying stuff that are vague enough that it'd make sense to your clients without conciously thinking about it. I am not accusing you of being a fake but I've wondered before if psychics who believe they have this ability might just be very good at cold reading without realising it and mistaking it for paranormal abilities. Is that a possibility?

Well you would get the full service history of the car to go with it plus the service centers and mechanics can usually tell what's been done to a car. It's hard to get scammed unless you are looking for cheap deals.

I don't get enough feedback really......not that I push someone if they are uncomfortable but I think currently my accuracy level from the feedback I've gotten is about 80-100% (that is a rough guess (pun intended) from the feedback I received about Specific details). The 80% (or 20% deficit) is largely from my misinterpretation. Sometimes I will get a spirit who tells me they are female and show themselves to be as close as a sister using the way I like to see it and I say "I see your sister" but it could be a friend who is as close as a sister. Hope that makes sense.

One issue you mentioned about conflicting reports about the same psychic is something I can understand. A LOT of people who go for readings, compulsively are looking to hear about one thing........and if they don't it's a bad reading. I'm not talking about a psychic who gets things wrong, but one who perhaps a lot about their personal life when all the client wants to hear about is a new job they are going for.

Maybe I'm a very good cold reader but from my experience the sensations/feelings/progressions etc through a few years I've proved to myself that it is reliably different to anything intellectual.

You do get service histories for a car you are buying and I thoroughly recommend you go by people you know and their recommendations of accurate psychics.

faceman

sorry just to add a note to the thread seein as i started this, i didnt intend this thread to have a go at psychics be they boards users or not so please do not let this thread end up a diggin match at aisling! I only meant it as a discussion point!

aisling, i cant find links yet to the show but once i do i will post them

Aisling&M

I would love to get a link!
Don't worry about me, I'm open for discussion! Thanks for the post though and Sorry for taking it off course.