80s Cold War fear - it's back

Dudess

Calling all children of the 80s: remember the terror caused by the constant possibility of a nuclear strike?

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXx5Y2Fr2bk

As far as I know, the British government had to abandon showing it because of the upset it would cause. Sweet jebus, it's terrifying.

So many great films/TV shows:

-When The Wind Blows
-Threads
-The War Game
-Testament
-Edge of Darkness
-Special Bulletin
-Trinity and Beyond
-The Day After

They all demonstrate the same thing - any preparations are absolutely pointless.

Duggy747

The BBC made a short movie back in the 80's about the threat of the Cold War. It was about a nuke being set off in London and is eerily spooky down to the fact there's no music and is gritty-ish showing all this people shìtting themselves while all you see is the mushroom cloud in the distance. Still, good ol' WarGames with Matthew Brodrick put a nice cosy Hollywood face on the whole Cold War scenario.

YeatsCounty

Interesting viewing, I must check out the rest of the "Protect and Survive" (HA!) series. Threads is a good gritty film. Not Hollywood quality but possibly more realistic because of that. I remember being scared witless by "Special Bulletin" years ago.

As for the current sabre rattling by Putin, it really seems like he's just whipped out his lad and he wants to see if NATO will compare sizes with him over this missile shield business.....metaphorically speaking, of course. Let's just hope that we don't have a 1983 crisis all over again, where the world comes pretty close to the brink without most of us knowing a thing about it.

dSTAR

All designed to keep to trapped in this 3D world.

Thats funny because today I was traveling on a train in Melbourne and noticed the guy next to me reading a book about the atomic bomb in Hiroshima.

Some of the pictures reminded me of photos a retired professor showed me when I visited Hiroshima last October.

Only they were much more graphic...

Remember this anti-human ****ers can threaten you with guns and bombs but they cannot destroy your soul or spirit.

Dudess

Duggy747 wrote:

The BBC made a short movie back in the 80's about the threat of the Cold War. It was about a nuke being set off in London and is eerily spooky down to the fact there's no music and is gritty-ish showing all this people shìtting themselves while all you see is the mushroom cloud in the distance. Still, good ol' WarGames with Matthew Brodrick put a nice cosy Hollywood face on the whole Cold War scenario.

Would that be Threads from '84 (actually set in Sheffield - not that it matters really). Saw it recently - fcuking petrifying. It's very similar to The War Game (not to be confused with the aforementioned Matthew Broderick gem). That was made in the 1960s and is very similar to Threads - docu-drama style etc. It was banned for 20 years - again, the British government didn't like people being aware of the fact that, in the event of a nuclear strike... er, there's not a whole lot you can do. But with the release of Threads, the lid was lifted on The War Game (Threads was even scarier).

Duggy747

Dudess wrote:

Would that be Threads from '84 (actually set in Sheffield - not that it matters really).

I remember first watching it thinking "Oh, this should be a laugh" but the way it's made sorta spooks ya out.

Dudess

Yeah, I had seen a couple of clips on one of those I Love 1980-whatever things. It looked so lame, with hammy acting. And I just thought, "a mushroom cloud over Sheffield - yeah right". Wrong. It was an excellent piece of work - really powerful, and painstakingly researched.

YeatsCounty wrote:

Let's just hope that we don't have a 1983 crisis all over again, where the world comes pretty close to the brink without most of us knowing a thing about it.

Wasn't aware of that - although my mum used to go to CND meetings in Cork all the time back then. And that of course was the time of the Greenham Common demonstrations. I'd prefer not to be aware of it though, to be honest. Don't fancy a Bay of Pigs type scenario. My parents say that was probably the most terrifying time of their lives.

Earthhorse

Shouldn't this be in the All Things Retro forum?

Dudess

You're probably right - there's something so nostalgic about it! There are elements of it that could be suited to Film, Television, Politics, Humanities, Green Issues - it's pretty broad, so that's why I chose AH.

stovelid

Boo dudess, sleveening off on your All Things Retro brethren to AH

I remember Threads at the time. Terrified us.

If we're talking about 80's cold war fear, we can't leave out this.

DaBreno

Dudess wrote:

It was banned for 20 years - again, the British government didn't like people being aware of the fact that, in the event of a nuclear strike... er, there's not a whole lot you can do.

Similar sort of theme explored in the excellent When the Wind Blows. Tis about a retired English couple in the country trying to deal with the slow-burn fallout effects of the war, believing steadfastedly that the Govt is coming to help out and they will prevail. We were shown it as part of an English class in secondary school. Almost a few misty eyes in the class at the ending.

Recommended viewing for all, especially in the day of George W and his idea of "Tactical" nukes. Go away you stupid man. :mad:

Dudess

stovelid wrote:

Boo dudess, sleveening off on your All Things Retro brethren to AH

Well it didn't take long for you to make the crossover yourself, Stovie. But I still love all you ATR folks!

If we're talking about 80's cold war fear, we can't leave out this.

Ooh yeah! Good call!

Yes indeed, DaBreno, I actually watched When The Wind Blows again recently. It's very powerful stuff. Raymond Briggs is an excellent animator.

Earthhorse

Ah, I was only joking with my All Things Retro comment.

There's a great Peter Cook spoof of videos on this sort of thing: "Now, when the attack happens, you need to get right out of the Danger Area. Just get right out of there...".

Dudess

Earthhorse wrote:

Ah, I was only joking with my All Things Retro comment.

Oh I know, but you're actually more right than you thought!

There's a great Peter Cook spoof of videos on this sort of thing: "Now, when the attack happens, you need to get right out of the Danger Area. Just get right out of there...".

YeatsCounty

Dudess wrote:

Wasn't aware of that - although my mum used to go to CND meetings in Cork all the time back then. And that of course was the time of the Greenham Common demonstrations. I'd prefer not to be aware of it though, to be honest. Don't fancy a Bay of Pigs type scenario. My parents say that was probably the most terrifying time of their lives.

I forget what comedy it was where an old man and woman are talking about the "good old days" when people were nicer and there was nothing to worry about "except nuclear war". I was a nice quote, i thought. Here's a coupe of links about the 1983 crisis:

Un
Duex

My dad remembers living in London during the Cuban missile crisis. He went for a stroll to ease his neres before tuning in to JFK's address to the nation (believe me, it was an address to the world) regarding the USA's findings in Cuba. He remembers strolling to the tip of a hill and looking down over a vast swathe of houses. At that time of night, only street lights were usually seen. On that night, every single house had at least one light on. Everyone was listening to the radio to find out what the USA's move would be. My Dad remembers the following quote from JFK vividly:

We will not prematurely or unnecessarily risk the costs of worldwide nuclear war in which even the fruits of victory would be ashes in our mouth; but neither will we shrink from that risk at any time it must be faced.

stovelid

I miss the 80's.

Remember the imminent destruction of the planet was everyday playground conversation?

DaBreno

Aye. I thought the most faciniating aspect of the war itself was the speed. They reckoned within Half an Hour of an all out declaration, enough missiles would hit the earth to destroy humanity. You cant even drive home from work that fast!

Truly the height of human engineering.

robinph

YeatsCounty wrote:

Let's just hope that we don't have a 1983 crisis all over again, where the world comes pretty close to the brink without most of us knowing a thing about it.

And what is the benifit of knowing about it? Think I would rather be blissfully unaware of what was going on until the moment I look up in the sky and notice a big firework flying towards me.

YeatsCounty

robinph wrote:

And what is the benifit of knowing about it? Think I would rather be blissfully unaware of what was going on until the moment I look up in the sky and notice a big firework flying towards me.

I, on the other hand, would like to know if one was on the brink of happening so I could mentally prepare myself for the possibility that it could all go tits up at any moment. I don't want to be surprised, athough that might be the best way. I want to have at least some warning of what's coming.

I think I'd be the only person who'd be driving/running into a city instead of out of one if the air raid sirens started to blare. In the case of a nuclear WW3, I'd want a missile to land right on my head. No pain. Yes, I'm a coward when it comes to enduring a nuclear holocaust. I'm not too thrilled about the idea of surviving one either. I'm not the rugged outdoors type. I bleed too easily.

robinph

YeatsCounty wrote:

I think I'd be the only person who'd be driving/running into a city instead of out of one if the air raid sirens started to blare. In the case of a nuclear WW3, I'd want a missile to land right on my head. No pain. Yes, I'm a coward when it comes to enduring a nuclear holocaust. I'm not too thrilled about the idea of surviving one either. I'm not the rugged outdoors type. I bleed too easily.

I'd be right with you on the running towards the bomb, unfortunately I'm not sure that Ireland is likely to get many direct hits or be very high up anyones list of primary targets so is probably the last place you'd want to be in the event of WW3 as we'd just get all the fallout from our neighbours in the rest of Europe. Although the gulf stream might save Ireland from too much bad stuff making it this way but we'd be in the unfortunate situation of having Cork as the only habitable place left in Europe and would be the new capital of the world.

Caliden

Remember kids!
Duck and cover and you will be safe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I

Dudess

robinph wrote:

we'd be in the unfortunate situation of having Cork as the only habitable place left in Europe and would be the new capital of the world.

It's true. The People's Republic has little tolerance for non-langers and you would be forced, under iron rule, to conform to, and integrate with, our culture. Those who do not comply will be shipped out to the labour camps of Ballincollig to toil for the rest of your lives.

The most serious offenders would face a miserable life in one of the 'M' compounds: Mallow, Macroom or Mitchelstown.

YeatsCounty

robinph wrote:

I'd be right with you on the running towards the bomb, unfortunately I'm not sure that Ireland is likely to get many direct hits or be very high up anyones list of primary targets so is probably the last place you'd want to be in the event of WW3 as we'd just get all the fallout from our neighbours in the rest of Europe. Although the gulf stream might save Ireland from too much bad stuff making it this way but we'd be in the unfortunate situation of having Cork as the only habitable place left in Europe and would be the new capital of the world.

Eh, I think that we'd be "lucky" in that Ire;and would be decimated along with the rest of the world. I'm pretty certain that Dublin City, Dublin Airport and Shannon Airport would all be hit (maybe 2 small bombs or 1 big bomb for Dublin). Belfast would be hit as well, I'm sure. So that's at least three (probably) small bombs hitting Ireland, if not four. That would account for the rest of us in Ireland anyway unless the prevailing winds were very kind to the North West, which is the only area that I can see keeping things going for a short while after the apocalypse. We're stuck nicely in the corner, so we might be OK for a short while. Our time would come though.

EDIT: I say a man with a PROC t-shirt on him last week. Do you think the Corkonians have send advance parties around the world for new cities to inhabit if Cork is evacuated after the war? :eek:

Agamemnon

YeatsCounty wrote:

Do you think the Corkonians have send advance parties around the world for new cities to inhabit if Cork is evacuated after the war? :eek:

No, the people in the PROC t-shirts are sent to size up various places around the world to find out if the surviving inhabitants should be allowed move to Cork after Big Three. Don't worry, the people of Montreal will be welcome in Cork and I don't see any harm in letting Sligo people in either. Waterford people, on the other hand, will be left outside to be eaten by the mutant wolf/cockroach hybrids.

robinph

Well there are not any military bases worth hitting in Ireland, other than Shannon and only then if there are a few US transporter planes are parked there at the time, and Dublin and Belfast would be quite a way down the list of major population centers that would be targeted in Europe as they are only small citys really. Although if they have a few spare bombs that they are not sure what to do with after hitting all the main targets they might send a couple our way, but every little military base in the rest of Europe would surely be hit first.

o1s1n

How scary is this;



system being tested at the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands. The lines shown are the re-entry vehicles. One Peacekeeper can hold up to 10 nuclear warheads, each independently targeted. Were the warheads armed with a nuclear payload, each would carry with it the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-sized weapons.

AlmightyCushion

o1s1n wrote:

How scary is this;

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/o1s1n/792px-Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg

system being tested at the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands. The lines shown are the re-entry vehicles. One Peacekeeper can hold up to 10 nuclear warheads, each independently targeted. Were the warheads armed with a nuclear payload, each would carry with it the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-sized weapons.

I know what I'm getting for christmas.

monkeyfudge

I was only saying the other day in the pub that as a kid I wanted to buy a double decker bus and bury it in the garden to use as a fall out shelter.

I think I still have a copy of the Civil Defense booklet on what to do in the event of a nuclear strike at home somewhere... It's pretty damn funny to read as it's just like one of the silly booklets that the characters had in When the Wind Blows.

Good thing these days we all have our iodine tablets so there isn't anything to worry about.

o1s1n

monkeyfudge wrote:

Good thing these days we all have our iodine tablets so there isn't anything to worry about.

Was anyone ever issued any more of them after the best before date passed?

Not that I'd have any problems taking out of date iodine tablets if there was an emergency....or that they'll actually do much for that matter.

robinph

monkeyfudge wrote:

Good thing these days we all have our iodine tablets so there isn't anything to worry about.

The b'stards never gave me any of these pills to make you immune to nuclear bombs. :mad:

Dudess

agamemnon wrote:

No, the people in the PROC t-shirts are sent to size up various places around the world to find out if the surviving inhabitants should be allowed move to Cork after Big Three.

Well done agamemnon. Way to blow our cover.

Agamemnon

Don't worry Dudess, most of the plan is still under wraps. I didn't mention anything about the network of hydrogen bombs we planted under Dub-

<snip>CENSORED BY ORDER OF THE PROC REVOLUTIONARY COMMITTEE</snip>

oops

Dudess

agamemnon is, as we speak, being frog-marched to Pairc Ui Chaoimh for a public flogging with a video link-up to the glorious and unquestioned leader of Cork, Roy.

Marksie

I remember watching both the day after and threads when they were first aired.

The day after stopped short.

Threads didn't as it dealt with the aftermath generations down the line.

There was an open panel discussion on the telly afterwards, and the media poured scorn on the greenham common women!

Slightly off topic tjhough...anyione remember "the china syndrome"?

P_1

I wonder which 'major' cities Putin has rockets aimed at here then.

Presumeably Dublin, Belfast, Cork. Maybe Limerick/Shannon too I suppose.

Winters

Prepare for a nuclear winter!

Wait, didnt those tablets the government give us already go out of date? OH NOEZ!

Dudess

Marksie wrote:

I remember watching both the day after and threads when they were first aired.

The day after stopped short.

Threads didn't as it dealt with the aftermath generations down the line.

There was an open panel discussion on the telly afterwards, and the media poured scorn on the greenham common women!

Slightly off topic tjhough...anyione remember "the china syndrome"?

The Day After is the cheeriest Teletubbies episode you could imagine, compared to Threads. I love the way The Day After is parodied in The Simpsons, when Sideshow Bob "detonates" an expired nuclear bomb. It's the part when various people doing mundane things just at the moment of the explosion are frozen and shown in close-up (e.g. Maggie picking a flower, one of the Flanders kids being pushed on a swing). Although, even though it's a spoof, it's also quite poignant.

Yeah, I saw The China Syndrome. Another film along similar lines is Silkwood, starring Meryl Streep - also about breaches of health and safety at a nuclear plant. Grim stuff.

Lemming

robinph wrote:

but we'd be in the unfortunate situation of having Cork as the only habitable place left in Europe and would be the new capital of the world.

Oh jesus .. that makes me want to run towards the fireball ....:eek:

Dudess

You will regret that comment, foolish Lemming. For when the glorious port of Cork and all her citizens rule the earth, you will be first against the wall.

aidan_dunne

I remember seeing bits of 'Threads' when I was younger and how it scared the shít out of me at the time and gave me an almost unhealthy obsession with all things of a nuclear nature afterwards. Recently RTE showed 'The Day After' early one Saturday morning (of all times to show something like that! :rolleyes: ) and so I got to see it for the first time and, Dudess is right, compared to 'Threads' it's shíte, it's like an American soap opera of a thing!

Afterwards, I decided to do a quick search on YouTube to see if maybe there was anything of 'Threads' on there and, sure enough, somebody had posted the entire film up there in about 10 or 12 parts so I finally got to see it in full over 20 years after it first scared the crap out of me. The result? It still scares me to this day.

In my opinion, it's the sort of film everybody, every single generation, should be made sit down to watch so that nobody ever forgets just how destructive nuclear weapons are and the effects they can have, not just in the initial attacks, but for years and decades afterwards. The Cold War may have ended 15 or so years ago but there's still thousands of nuclear weapons out there and it seems to me that, as the years have gone by, people have forgotten just how destructive these things are and have almost become blasé about them. Therefore, every generation, and the people in power in particular (Mr. Bush, I'm looking at you! ), should never be allowed forget what these things can do and how dangerous they are, lest they forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example. As someone once said, "fear is good. It prevents you from making mistakes." We should never become blasé about nuclear weapons, we all should fear them, for it's that fear of them and what they can do is surely what prevented them from ever being used again since 1945.

Watching the news today, it clearly brought back to me how 20-odd years ago relations between East and West crumbled when some American ex-actor decided he wanted to create a missile defense shield called S.D.I. (aka 'Star Wars'). Anyone remember that? Now, over 20 years later, it seems as if we've got another American nutjob who suddenly thinks it's 1984 again and wants to revive the idea, once again causing East/West relations to start breaking down! :rolleyes: Funny how things have a habit of repeating themselves, isn't it?

monkeyfudge

Lemming wrote:

Oh jesus .. that makes me want to run towards the fireball ....:eek:

Those left alive would envy the dead!

aidan_dunne

robinph wrote:

Well there are not any military bases worth hitting in Ireland, other than Shannon and only then if there are a few US transporter planes are parked there at the time, and Dublin and Belfast would be quite a way down the list of major population centers that would be targeted in Europe as they are only small citys really. Although if they have a few spare bombs that they are not sure what to do with after hitting all the main targets they might send a couple our way, but every little military base in the rest of Europe would surely be hit first.

I read an article a few years ago which said that, in the event of a major conflict between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces during the Cold War, that Ireland would have been one of the first places both sides would have wanted to have gained control over. Why? Because, being one of the most westerly countries in Europe, it would have been vital for the Soviet Union to try and get control of this country, and our airports especially, as a staging post for their aircraft to launch attacks out into the North Atlantic against US naval forces and convoy shipping that would have been using the North Atlantic to ferry troops and equipment across to Europe. Iceland would have also been another target for the same reason. The NATO forces would have tried to prevent the Warsaw Pact forces from taking control of Ireland and Iceland for the same reason so, therefore, there would have potentially been quite the bunfight over this little rock, it seems!

That's all assuming that the conflict would have been more of a conventional one or a conflict where there was "limited" (is there such a thing? :rolleyes: ) use of small, tactical nukes. Tom Clancy's book 'Red Storm Rising' gives a good outline of this sort of scenario, with the focus being on the Iceland aspect, but for Iceland you could probably read a similar thing happeneing here. In the case of a full scale nuclear strike, though, who knows what the hell would have happened! :eek:

andrew

Just watched Threads. holy crap!

heres the whole thing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023790698427111488

Dudess

It stays with you, doesn't it? The aftermath 10, 15 years down the line is the worst.

peasant

As for running towards the cities ...

Grew up in western Germany, the then cold war frontline. Within 50 kilometers of our house there was:

1 US airforce base
1 German airforce base
3 different "Pershing" rocket silos
5 different "cruise missile" bases
3 German army barracks
about 10 German army ammunition and materials depots
and not to forget 2 nuclear power stations.

No need to run there ...:D

Dudess

Jebus H! You'd be toast before you could say "oh sh1t, it's starting!"

peasant

Yepp ...every first Tuesday of the month at around 10 am they used to test the air raid sirens.

Sometimes you forgot it was "that" Tuesday :eek: :eek:
Talk about an eerie feeling.

One day the air raid siren test coincided with a column of about 200 German American and French tanks rumbling through town on their way to maneuvres.

Wasn't just movies that scared me

Dudess

That air raid siren is chilling. I used to live across the road from Cork Prison and an army barracks. The siren would go off now and again (I think it indicated that a prisoner was trying to escape). I would always think, for a split second, "World War III is finally happening!" before being brought back down to earth. What a sickening feeling!

monkeyfudge

Remember the original Time Machine movie by George Pal?

800,000 years in the future and the Eloi who are descended from the human race are completely brain washed and programed by the siren so that when it sounds they walk blindly into the caves where the Morlocks are waiting for them.

robinph

I could see Ireland being the major target in a conventional war, but if both sides are using nukes the only reason for obliterating Ireland is if they wanted to just make sure that nobody on the planet survived at all. There are not any targets in Ireland that you would need to take out in the first round of nukes, and both sides would be wanting to leave the palce as a safe landing strip for themselves right up until it looked like the other guys were winning.

peasant wrote:

Yepp ...every first Tuesday of the month at around 10 am they used to test the air raid sirens.

They used to regularly test run the air raid sirens where I used to live as well, they used them round thouse parts though for warning of flooding seeing as the whole area was several feet below sea level.

Dudess

YeatsCounty wrote:

I forget what comedy it was where an old man and woman are talking about the "good old days" when people were nicer and there was nothing to worry about "except nuclear war". I was a nice quote, i thought. Here's a coupe of links about the 1983 crisis:

Un
Duex

My dad remembers living in London during the Cuban missile crisis. He went for a stroll to ease his neres before tuning in to JFK's address to the nation (believe me, it was an address to the world) regarding the USA's findings in Cuba. He remembers strolling to the tip of a hill and looking down over a vast swathe of houses. At that time of night, only street lights were usually seen. On that night, every single house had at least one light on. Everyone was listening to the radio to find out what the USA's move would be. My Dad remembers the following quote from JFK vividly:

YeatsCounty, cheers for that. Very interesting stuff there.