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Transfer Budgets

  • 04-06-2007 12:15PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭


    Using kaids' excel sheet, I was thinking we'd try settle the amount spent debate over different clubs.
    Attached is his excel sheet, I was thinking if you spot any problems with it, post it on here, we'll edit it, until it's a conclusive report.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    PHB wrote:
    Attached is his excel sheet, I was thinking if you spot any problems with it, post it on here

    I've spotted one, it's not attached...;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Just wondering, where are the transfer figures from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Good idea for a thread , maybe we can put this one to bed once and for all.

    I just had a quick look and Macherano is listed as on loan @ £1.5 million and £18 million to make the deal permanent, That would make a big difference to the final figures if accurate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    why since january 2002? what are your sources for the figures?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Running Bing


    el rabitos wrote:
    why since january 2002? what are your sources for the figures?



    Obviously that was most favourable to the person who made the list:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    those chelsea figures are unbelieveable really. so so much wasting of money there, tis no wonder the russian has turned off the money tap. being £180 million in debt and no backing from abramovich, its not surprising either that they are turning to free transfers so far this summer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    while this article may be abit biased it is an interesting read.

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG156087070603-0752.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Stky10


    For it to be of any use it should also include the amount spent on wages for players for each season as well. The average wage for a premiership footballer is over 1 million a year, and the top players can earn over 5 million, and in a lot of cases the cost of a players transfer fee is small compared to the cost of wages they'll earn over the length of their contract.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Call_me_al wrote:
    while this article may be abit biased it is an interesting read.

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG156087070603-0752.htm

    "a bit biased" come on it as one sided as can be which is not surprising considering the source.
    When Benítez has spent between £5m-£10m on a player he has generally hauled in some real winners: no one can doubt the quality and value for money of Alonso, Agger, Reina, Luis Garcia, Crouch, Sissoko, Bellamy and Kuyt.

    " Real winners" enough said.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    why did you pick 2002 as the starting point ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    The Muppet wrote:
    "a bit biased" come on it as one sided as can be which is not surprising considering the source.
    Now you know how we feel when we are faced with your posts :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Now you know how we feel when we are faced with your posts :)

    Ah now I never went that far.:)


    This is how many league points each 'big club' got for every million pounds spent on its 20 main players.

    Liverpool.....................0.78
    Spurs.............................0.75
    Arsenal ........................0.71
    Man United.................0.63
    Newcastle....................0.56
    Chelsea.........................0.33

    I Lolled.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I got the figures from PepeLeFrits (kaids), he posted it on the Arsenal thread.
    If there are any incorrect figures, post a source, and we'll change it, then we'll be able to compile it all together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    PHB wrote:
    I got the figures from PepeLeFrits (kaids), he posted it on the Arsenal thread.
    If there are any incorrect figures, post a source, and we'll change it, then we'll be able to compile it all together.

    or

    you post a source for these figures? seems like the first thing to do when starting a thread of this type. different sites, bbc and skysports for example, regularly post differing transfer fees for players. so i'd be interested to see where these figures are coming from.

    also, again, why 2002? why not 2000, 1990, 1997?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Just when PepeLeFrits picked, there was no particular reason, if you want to add 2001, do so.
    Why is this a competition?

    I didn't compile this initital thing, I just took it off mike (cheers), if theres a problem in the list, post a source, and we'll fix it. Seems like a simple plan no?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    For it to be of any use it should also include the amount spent on wages for players for each season as well. The average wage for a premiership footballer is over 1 million a year, and the top players can earn over 5 million, and in a lot of cases the cost of a players transfer fee is small compared to the cost of wages they'll earn over the length of their contract.

    If you have that data, post it, and I'll pop it in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    a simple plan would have been picking 1 source to begin with, otherwise your really just pulling numbers out of nowhere, no?

    its not a competition but if we're just going to throw random numbers around we might aswell play countdown

    can i have a consonant please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Well then, if you want to do that, I suggest that you do. Go for it, post up the figures, I'll happily put them in. If you have nothing to contribute though, and don't really want to, I don't see why you are even posting on the thread.

    And since you seem to think there are so many problems, which ones exactly do you have a problem with?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    el rabitos wrote:
    a simple plan would have been picking 1 source to begin with, otherwise your really just pulling numbers out of nowhere, no?

    its not a competition but if we're just going to throw random numbers around we might aswell play countdown

    can i have a consonant please?

    He did pick one source, Kaids/Pepe Lefrits spreadsheet. PHP also invited anyone who found any anomilities to post them and said he would change them if necessary.

    As a United Fan I'm sure PHP would not have chosen to start the year United made their record signing (30 million for rio)if he were trying to be funny with the figures. I think a five year period is a fair timescale for such an experiment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Stky10


    PHB wrote:
    If you have that data, post it, and I'll pop it in.

    AFAIK Deloittes usually do an end of season report where they give a guestimated figure along with the percentage of wages against income. I've too much to be doing though to hunt it down for five seasons running.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6705251.stm

    It makes sense though. In just counting transfer fees, Ballack cost Chelsea nothing, where in reality he's costing them 130grand sterling a week. Similarly this summer, Sidwell, Pizarro, and Alex might cost them the sum total of a dollar in transfers, but 200 grand sterling a week in wages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    well suggest a "fair" start date and go from there.

    man utd and arsenal have had managers that have been at the job for at least a decade (wenger has been at arsenal about 10 years now iirc?) so both clubs have not had any major incomings and outgoings as far as transfers within the first teams go so would it not be somewhat unfair to compare and contrast the spending habits of those 2 clubs with chelsea and liverpool who both in 2004/05 brought in new managers?

    chelsea have adopted a stratagy of "lets buy all the first team players we need to start off with a strong base". now chelsea, after investing big, have got the solid base that arsenal and man utd have built up over the years, they are now in a position where they have a strong squad, and just have to add to it with 1 or 2 major changes every year.

    liverpool on the other hand, dont really have as settled a squad, benitez is still doing what mourinho would have had to do had he not had the major finances to buy a complete first team, he's plugging gaps and spending money to supplement the reserve team while trying to build a settled core of players for the first team, its a bit all over the place with players coming and going.

    so what your doing is comparing the settled spending of arsenal and man utd with chelsea's massive initial investment to reach that settled stage, and rafa benitez's attempt to play around with the budget he's been given to try and build a new team.

    basically what i'm saying its not really a level playing field, so obviously liverpool and chelsea are going to be top of the spending lists because they have both, since 2002 anyway, been the busiest clubs trying to re-structure.

    try adding up the spending in 4 years or so assuming all 4 managers are still in place and start from 2004/05 and you'll probably have a rough estimate as to how the teams spending compares under their current management structures.

    my 2c anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    el rabitos wrote:
    well suggest a "fair" start date and go from there.

    man utd and arsenal have had managers that have been at the job for at least a decade (wenger has been at arsenal about 10 years now iirc?) so both clubs have not had any major incomings and outgoings as far as transfers within the first teams go so would it not be somewhat unfair to compare and contrast the spending habits of those 2 clubs with chelsea and liverpool who both in 2004/05 brought in new managers?

    chelsea have adopted a stratagy of "lets buy all the first team players we need to start off with a strong base". now chelsea, after investing big, have got the solid base that arsenal and man utd have built up over the years, they are now in a position where they have a strong squad, and just have to add to it with 1 or 2 major changes every year.

    liverpool on the other hand, dont really have as settled a squad, benitez is still doing what mourinho would have had to do had he not had the major finances to buy a complete first team, he's plugging gaps and spending money to supplement the reserve team while trying to build a settled core of players for the first team, its a bit all over the place with players coming and going.

    so what your doing is comparing the settled spending of arsenal and man utd with chelsea's massive initial investment to reach that settled stage, and rafa benitez's attempt to play around with the budget he's been given to try and build a new team.

    basically what i'm saying its not really a level playing field, so obviously liverpool and chelsea are going to be top of the spending lists because they have both, since 2002 anyway, been the busiest clubs trying to re-structure.

    try adding up the spending in 4 years or so assuming all 4 managers are still in place and start from 2004/05 and you'll probably have a rough estimate as to how the teams spending compares under their current management structures.

    my 2c anyway

    Start from the begining of the premiership then as you are unlikely to get a year that does not favour one club over another otherwise. I would be happy to do the figures for United and liverpool for that matter as I already have them here somwhere. I would need a few days to formulate them .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Start from the start of each managers tenure (or the start of the PL in Ferguson's case) and get the average per year spent by that manager for their club. Quite difficult to get the info for some of the smaller clubs but quite simple for the bigger clubs. Maybe add a weighting so that a minimum of 5 years of date has to be accounted for (Rafa and Jose have been there 3 years but both previous managers spent quite alot of money on players and some those players are still in the club and are first team players).

    Might also be an idea to consider inflation so that a club spending 60 million a season 5 years ago but only spending 10 million a season now does not get an artificially low score when compared to a club spending 10 million 5 years ago and 60 million a season now. As you know, 60 million 5 years ago was mega bugs but is somewhat average now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Fair enough, I've no problem with adding in data, I just wanted to get a conclusive report on what people actually spend. What you take from it is entirely up to you, but I'd like to be able to say without a doubt how much people spent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Start from the start of each managers tenure (or the start of the PL in Ferguson's case) and get the average per year spent by that manager for their club. Quite difficult to get the info for some of the smaller clubs but quite simple for the bigger clubs. Maybe add a weighting so that a minimum of 5 years of date has to be accounted for (Rafa and Jose have been there 3 years but both previous managers spent quite alot of money on players and some those players are still in the club and are first team players).

    Might also be an idea to consider inflation so that a club spending 60 million a season 5 years ago but only spending 10 million a season now does not get an artificially low score when compared to a club spending 10 million 5 years ago and 60 million a season now. As you know, 60 million 5 years ago was mega bugs but is somewhat average now.

    Ok , You've got the job, when can you start.:)

    It might be an idea to break it down into blocks of years to account for inflation rather than using averages which will not give accurate results for the reasons stated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Ask my... Too busy unfortunately.

    There is an article on LFC.tv that address some of what we have been discussing. Apparently Liverpool have spent an average of 4million per player for their first 20. Arsenal have apparently spent 4.5million.


    Ah found it - not read the whole thing yet mind you:

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG156087070603-0752.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Ask my... Too busy unfortunately.

    There is an article on LFC.tv that address some of what we have been discussing. Apparently Liverpool have spent an average of 4million per player for their first 20. Arsenal have apparently spent 4.5million.


    Ah found it - not read the whole thing yet mind you:

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG156087070603-0752.htm

    You didn't read all this thread did you? :)


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    The data on the spreadsheet runs from 2002 because that was 5 years ago and that's a nice round number. It was put together for Arsenal fans to show the contraints Wenger has been under in the transfer market as he's been getting quite a bit of stick recently (I don't mean by anyone on here specifically). PHB spotted it in the Arsenal thread and asked to use it and I let him. It doesn't take things like wages into account or the time managers have been at the club because that isn't the point of it. It shows the transfer spending. That's it. I didn't put it together to start a penis-waving contest, though I can understand the Liverpool fans in particular getting defensive about it as it doesn't show their club in a very favourable light. If people want to make additions or make new lists for manager-average-spend (might want to add the effects of inflation there) average-player-cost etc then feel free. I don't care.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    why are you bringing penises(peni?) and disgruntled liverpool fans into it?

    its not really something any group of fans can get pissed off about, it kinda is what it is really. i'm just saying there are alot of variables to take into account if you wanna get a grasp of how the top 4's spending compares with each other.


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