Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

Guy:Incognito

~Rebel~ wrote:

Oddly both last year and this year the opta stats show liverpool have been more successful without Gerrard then with him! Didn't bother looking for the ones i saw last year but were much the same as this years;

2004-05

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With Gerrard

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Without Gerrard
Games

---

30

---

8
Wins

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12

---

5
Draws

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6

---

1
Losses

---

12

---

2
Goals For

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36

---

16
Average Goals For

---

1.2

---

2
Goals Against

---

32

---

9
Average Goals Against

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1.07

---

1.12
Win %

---

40%

---

62%
Points per game

---

1.40

---

2.00

odd eh? Would personally like to seehim at the club but at the same time wouldn't be the end of the world at all if he was sold for megabucks.

I'm not Gerrards biggest fan and think he is overrated but you cant compare a run of 30 games to a run of 8 games. If he had played 19 and missed 19 then you would have a clearer indication. Plus Gerrard played in most of the big matches (UTD, Arsenal & Chelsea) did he not?

Chucky the tree

redspider wrote:

I've heard he's looking for a goalie but with Dudek, Carson and Kirkland, they all seem reasonable. They can all have their off moments but they are not weak links in the team imo. hen look something like this:


I think any player that is 23 years old (ie: is now fully developed as a player) and if he hasnt got into the above squad, they should be sold off. The young players 17-22 years old can be kept on, but there should also only be 23 of them and they should play the same system.



Redspider

Are goalies are all crap, dudek is useless, no team will ever win a premiership with him in goal. Delgithed we(not done yet but fingers crossed) we are getting reina.

Players only phyisically develop at 23, they dont peak until 27 or 28. No player under 23 should be on the team unless he is an exceptional talent.

PHB

People keep doing this, looking at Reyes, Rooney, Ronaldo, Robben, Fabregas and go, hey he is 20 and hes good.
Then they look at the other 20 year olds and judge them by the same standerds.
The majority of players reach their peak around 27, as will the previously mentioned players, its just these guys have developed very very early.
Nunez could be a world beater in 3 years, you just have to give him time to develop

el rabitos

as far as i know timo hilderbrand is a free agent, awsome keeper and young.

reina is a good solid keeper, but worth 8 million? i dont think so. not for me anyway.

my choice would be sebastian frey, he wants out at parma and he has alot of experience for a 25 year old. and i dont think he'll cost as much as 8 million.

money + dudek for kuyt, kirkland loaned out, and new keeper with carson as our 2 keepers for the season = ideal

Chucky the tree

i dunno. If frey cant even get a place ahead of Barthez on the French team i dont think he is good enough.

PiE

Should buy Deisler

el rabitos

Should buy Deisler

quiet you :rolleyes:

i dunno. If frey cant even get a place ahead of Barthez on the French team i dont think he is good enough.

frey, coupet and landraeu are both superior french keepers.

kahn still plays for germany, doesnt make him better that hildebrand or lemon.

as far as the spanish keepers out there, reina is in the top 3. so i wouldnt be against seeing him with us nxt year, i just dont think he's worth 8 million at this stage. 5 mill would be reasonable

Pepe LeFrits

Hildebrand signed a new contract about a month or two ago. Frey is very overrated, he's been linked to every club under the sun for years but nobody has shown interest. His team were nearly relegated from Serie A this season and he didn't even start in either UEFA cup semi final leg; he also seems to be way down the pecking order for France.

Bannor

There's no truth to the Gerrard to Madrid stories. There has been contact with Madrid from SFX, but that's to use as a bargaining chip with Parry and Benitez. Owen has warned Gerrard off of going to Madrid several times. The story is being lead by the two Spanish newspapers AS and Marca - there hasn't been any big transfer news in Spain so they have to find some way of selling newspapers and Steven Gerrard is the story. The UK press are just regurgitating the stories that appear in the Spanish press. The photograph with Guti was a staged photograph, both players were staying at the same resort - there were also several other players there but the Spanish press only published the photo of Guti and Gerrard because it gave them a story to run until some real news happens.

el rabitos

i'm starting to wonder if rafa is allowing the deadline for the 1st round of champions league to have a bearing on his transfers. theres less than 10 days before the deadline, with a fair few signings actaully needed, i would have thought there would be some more concrete rumblings going on in regards to incoming transfers

applehunter

Liverpool should sign Duff from Chelsea. He is a good left-sided player. He was with Blackburn before he signed for Chelsea. Only negative is that he is prone to injury of late.

Of course Houllier could have signed him pre-World Cup 2002 for €10m, but he decided to sign Diouf. What a FAt French Frog. He is probably worth €14/15 million now.

Liverpool are still a v. ordinary side, Champions League or not.

woodyg

I think Rafa is making sure he gets the players he wants and not rush out an buy make weights because of the deadline for round 1.

It's allways quite at this time in the transfer market end of july to end of August is where the fun happens.

The 1 player i really do hope we get is Aimar.

Been watchin a good bit of the confederation cup and he has really impressed me. He has that little bit of bite/edge about him wish would really help out in the league

Big Nelly

applehunter wrote:

Liverpool should sign Duff from Chelsea. He is a good left-sided player. He was with Blackburn before he signed for Chelsea. Only negative is that he is prone to injury of late.

Of course Houllier could have signed him pre-World Cup 2002 for €10m, but he decided to sign Diouf. What a FAt French Frog. He is probably worth €14/15 million now.

Liverpool are still a v. ordinary side, Champions League or not.

Never Blackburn!! u serious????

Prone to injury? how many games compared to Robben did Duff play? cant remember him missing too many!

I cant remember but hadnt Duff already signed his contract before World Cup with the 17mil clause in it that meant 10mil would have got Liverpool no where the same as what happened to Utd when they tried to sign before Chelseas.......

Duff worth 14/15? dont think so.....look closer to the 20million and over if you think SWP is valued at 20million and Duff is twice the player......

One point I do agree with you is that Liverpool are Ordinary but manager and spanish players have only had one season so far so will be better next!!

Lex Luthor

el rabitos wrote:

frey, coupet and landraeu are both superior french keepers.

Just got my official Champions 2005 DVD in the post yesterday from Play.com

A quiet slot in the day, and I'll be sticking it on....

PHB

Duff, it has been said by even Mourinho this year, is Chelsea's best player imo.
Terry is great, and Makelele is amazing, but Duff makes and scores a huge huge huge percetange of Chelsea goals, and if there was going to be a winger sold, it'd be Robben

tel922001

Liverpool will draw one of the following twelve unseeded teams on Friday:

FK Rabotnicki (Macedonia)
FC Dinamo Minsk (Belarus)
FC Pyunik (Armenia)
Sliema Wanderers (Malta)
KF Tirana (Albania)
FC Levadia Tallinn (Estonia)
Glentoran (Northern Ireland)
Total Network Solutions (Wales)
F91 Dudelange (Luxembourg)
PFC Neftchi (Azerbaijan)
HB Torshavn (Faroe Islands)
FC Kairat Almaty (Kazhakstan)


Who would you choose the pool to play , anyone ever heard of any of these, i think i heard at some point in my life there was a team called glentoran up the north not sure

redspider

woodyg wrote:

I think Rafa is making sure he gets the players he wants and not rush out an buy make weights because of the deadline for round 1. It's allways quite at this time in the transfer market end of july to end of August is where the fun happens. The 1 player i really do hope we get is Aimar.

Its a game of cat and mouse for all parties concerned, teams, managers, players and agents. The "fun" though is already starting, now that players are starting to come back from holidays, and pre-season training, matches, tours and tournaments will get underway soon so deals will be happening weekly. Maybe there will be a rush in the week up to the deadline, is that in late August or early Sep?

So, Chelsea and Man U have made their first acquisitions.

What do people think of the Park signing for Man U at eur 12m? He's 24, its a four year deal with a salary of 3m pa. So, thats an all-in cost of 6m pa and 24m for the 4 years.

I am not sure about him. I think he's an ok player, but not extraordinary by any measure. He's also a utility player in that he works hard and can play midfield and up front, but he's not a goalscorer. Do people think he would have been an addition to the Liverpool team (1st squad of 23)? I think at that cost he would have been far too expensive for Liverpool.

Chelsea have also made their first move in what is analagous to a game of chess. 12m eur for the 24 year old spanish player del Horno, a left back, Chelsea's so-called weak position. A 3 year deal it seems, but I dont have any info on the reported salary. I dont know enough about him to comment, but I'm sure Benitez would know all about him. I dont know if he was a target or not for Liverpool and if Chelsea outbid Liverpool in terms of transfer fee and salary. Perhaps Benitez is not looking for a LB at all.


Biscan is on the way out, and Benitez is still talking up getting a new goalie. I realise that Dudek, Kirkland and Carson have faults, but GK is not the area on the pitch with the worst faults as far as I can see. I think we need to strengthen midfield. Aimar is a player with skill, but only at times, and it will depend on his workrate, which I dont think will be up to the pace for the English league.

Redspider

uberwolf

@ Redspider
Benetiz envisages Riise being our left back if and when Kewell/a.n other provide quality on the left wing. The reason Traore is still around is that he was being played out of position all season and it'd be a bit harsh to cull him for that.

Branners

Riise defo first choice man, troare is coming on good, i can see him being a quality centre half, coz his defensive skills are good, and he's a great tackler of the ball, just don't let him try and pass it around though, hes a bit of a donkey then!

redspider

Bannor wrote:

There's no truth to the Gerrard to Madrid stories. There has been contact with Madrid from SFX, but that's to use as a bargaining chip with Parry and Benitez. Owen has warned Gerrard off of going to Madrid several times. The story is being lead by the two Spanish newspapers AS and Marca - there hasn't been any big transfer news in Spain so they have to find some way of selling newspapers and Steven Gerrard is the story. The UK press are just regurgitating the stories that appear in the Spanish press. The photograph with Guti was a staged photograph, both players were staying at the same resort - there were also several other players there but the Spanish press only published the photo of Guti and Gerrard because it gave them a story to run until some real news happens.

That makes sense Bannor. Players/Agents need to talk up their worth and attractiveness for other clubs in their negotiations. Gerrard eluded to the negotiations as "talks" even on the CL night itself when asked by the media if he would stay. Benitez I believe will sort out this will-he/wont-he situation once and for all, but like playing poker, he will have other cards in his hand to think about at the same time. I think that for Gerrard personally he should stay at Liverpool where he can be adored.

In terms of the stats that indicate "the opta stats show liverpool have been more successful without Gerrard then with him". I tend to agree with this, as by and large Gerrard did not play well in the away matches and Liverpool didnt either. Liverpool didnt miss him as much as the media would make out when he wasnt there, and some of this was mainly due to Alonso. I still think though that he should be a 1st-11 player, as in a good team he can only perform better. I think he can struggle when he feels all the pressure is on him to perform, and on many occasions last season I just couldnt get over his lack of application at times when he would literally walk and jog around the pitch. A motivated Gerard though in a motivated Liverpool team is the right combination I beleive, and he can fit in with Alonso, but when playing the best teams they will need a player like Hamann to play the covering position.

Redspider

~Rebel~

redspider wrote:

What do people think of the Park signing for Man U at eur 12m?

I thought he went for £4m..thats what heard on the radio. Or was that just a typo cause of the Del Horno 12m deal?
Looks a good player alright, though not sure if he will be strong enough on the ball, could have the same problems garcia has had i think, won't get the time he wants to do his funky sh!t. I do like him though, should be exciting to watch anyway.

In terms of transfers i'd be happy with even a bare minimum of 3 first teamers being bought. a versatile midfielder creative person like aimar would be perfect, could play on the general right side, with garcia playing more on the left (his favoured side) or else kewell on the left, garcia right, aimar behind striker. offers a lot of options and creativity i think and looks a great player!
Definately need 1 CB badly to cover/replace Hypia. Still think Hypia has a major part to play in coming season but just not quite the player he was.Milito has issued a come and get me so hopefully that should be that.
*All done assuming Riise will be Left Back next season, if not, then need to fill that role

Also would like a new goalkeeper. As you said Spider, its not a definate necessity, but i think it would be a major bonus. Dudek is always prone to the odd lapse, but besides that is a great keeper, just a bit of a penchant for the spectacular and a bit volatile. Kirkland is a good solid keeper alright, but the most injury prone man ever! Also, as reliable as he is to do what he does well, i just dont think he has the same ability other keepers do to pull off amazing wonder saves, which is fine. He'll do whats expected of him i think but not much more. Still very young though so loan deal could be a good idea.
Carson does look a great young keeper but far too young to throw in as number one for a season. So basically id like to see Reina come in and have a bash.

I've been thinking and im not sure there really is a need for a new striker, i mean the way it looks now Baros is staying. I think he could be a lot better with a consistant strike partner and some service closer to goal so he can do what he loves and run at it from a reasonable distance instead of well outside the box. Personally i think Cisse, Morientes, Baros and Pongolle should really be enough. Whatever people think of moro, he Will be better next season, even if its only a bit it would nearly be enough, he's so good in the air that with either of the other 2mains strikers could create a lot of goals. I think Lord Cisse is gonna have a flier next year though.

yes thats enough i think..

PHB

Park was 4 million pounds. I honaslty don't know enough about him to say even if he can break into Man United first team, let alone liverpools.
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Traore is being played out of position?
If thats the case then stop doing it
Kewell is a quality player and will shine through eventually, just give him another season or so

Ardent

Zenden to Liverpool on a free apparently. Make sense.

redspider

uberwolf wrote:

@ Redspider
Benetiz envisages Riise being our left back if and when Kewell/a.n other provide quality on the left wing. The reason Traore is still around is that he was being played out of position all season and it'd be a bit harsh to cull him for that.

I agree that Riise is a good left back option, but I think we also need a good quality LB for cover, and the quality left midfielder as you mention. Traore could be good as a central defender. Its not our must-have buy, but if Riise gets injured and Traore, are we effed?

I still think the 23-man sqad should look like this:

G: Dudek, Kirkland, Carson
RB: Finnan, Josemi
CB: Carragher, Hyppia, Traore, VACANT
LB: Risse, (Whitbread/VACANT)
M: Hamann, Gerrard, Alonso, Garcia, ?, ?, ?, ?
F: Cisse, (Baros/VACANT), Morientes, (Pongolle/VACANT)


"What do people think of the Park signing for Man U at eur 12m?"
"I thought he went for £4m"

Yes, he went for 4m stg, which is 6m eur approx, I got a bit ahead of myself there. That transfer fee with his 3m annual salary for 4 years is an investment of 4.5m eur per annum, or 18m over the 4 years.

Redspider

mike65

tel922001 wrote:

Liverpool will draw one of the following twelve unseeded teams on Friday:

FK Rabotnicki (Macedonia)
FC Dinamo Minsk (Belarus)
FC Pyunik (Armenia)
Sliema Wanderers (Malta)
KF Tirana (Albania)
FC Levadia Tallinn (Estonia)
Glentoran (Northern Ireland)
Total Network Solutions (Wales)
F91 Dudelange (Luxembourg)
PFC Neftchi (Azerbaijan)
HB Torshavn (Faroe Islands)
FC Kairat Almaty (Kazhakstan)


Who would you choose the pool to play , anyone ever heard of any of these, i think i heard at some point in my life there was a team called glentoran up the north not sure

None of them are going to trouble Pool but they must be praying to avoid FC Kairat Almaty (a lonnnnnnnnnnng 3 days) which means they'll get them! I'd like TNS to get them.

Mike.

PHB

Redspider, if you went into adding every single wages and fees to the people you sign, Zenden wouldn't be coming on a free, he'd be coming for about 10 mill

woodyg

id be very suprised if troare got near the 1st team this year. His positional sence for a defender is dreadful at times.
the only reason he does those tackles is because he gets him self into serious trouble.
the sign of a good defender especialy centere half is 1 that just always seems to be in the right spot with out seemingly makin any effort.

any 1 know how florent pongolle is getting on with his injury?
i think he could be a real talent given the chance he showed real promise at times last year and if not for his injury he would have been a real help in the leauge and euro's.
His return will be like signin a new player

woodyg

yea TNS would be good would generate a lot of money for them i beleive it would be in the millennium stadium for there home leg so a crowd of 50,000 would be reachable so would provide TNS enough funds for the year.

~Rebel~

woodyg wrote:

florent pongolle...he could be a real talent given the chance he showed real promise at times last year and if not for his injury he would have been a real help in the leauge and euro's.
His return will be like signin a new player

I agree, looks a great player for the future, and together with cisse being back and Morientes hopefully a bit more on the ball should effectively be like 3 new players, baros was largely on his own last season, a role that just doesn't suit him imo, needs a partner.

Lex Luthor

don't forget about Mellor