Liverpool Signings and General Rumours Thread

TheMonster

As a a matter of interest who do Liverpool see as scoring their goals next season - there aint a lot of goalscorers in the squad especially if Baros leaves. Morientes or Cisse son't seem prolific enough

Bannor

The stumbling block with the transfers is teams are hiking up prices. Examples:

Reina - deal was agreed with Villareal months ago now the club are refusing to sell at the agreed price and are trying to get other clubs interested. Man Utd tried to hijack the deal but the player told them to feck off.

Milito - An enquiry was made about the player. Zaragoza said talk to the player and then we'll discuss the fee. Milito agreed terms and the clubs agreed a fee, now they want €30M because that's what's in the clause of his contract.

Pablo Garcia - a fee of €6M was agreed for the player with Osasuna, a contract was offered to the player. Then the club started touting the player to other clubs and Real Madrid made an offer believed to be €7.5M - the club accepted Real's offer but the contract offered is less than half the value of that offered by Liverpool. As far as the club are concerned he is going to Madrid and Rafa is looking alsewhere. It'll be interesting if the player says no to the Madrid offer.

Figo - free transfer agreed, now Madrid want €6M for the player.

Kuyt - there was an agreed part exchange deal of Dudek plus €9M, then Feyenoord said they don't want Dudek as part of the deal and want €15M for the player.

Johnson - everything was agreed in January. A couple of weeks ago Crystal Palace decided the player was worth £12M insted of the £6M on offer.

Benitez won't be held to ransom for any transfer - himself and Pako have a valuation of every transfer target in mind and they'll stick to it.

woodyg

i cant argue with that. Cisse has got to improve his awarness and touch.

Was reading the interview with Raffa on www.liverpoolfc.tv he seems to be indicating it will be Fernando and Cisse up top which at the moment is our strongest option.

I really like the way Raffa is going out to try get players in the mold of Jammie Carragher i.e heart for the battle dirtimination and ability.

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

As a a matter of interest who do Liverpool see as scoring their goals next season - there aint a lot of goalscorers in the squad especially if Baros leaves. Morientes or Cisse son't seem prolific enough

Morientes or Cisse only started about 20 games between them in the Premiership last year, so its good to see you are using your patented "I have a chip on my shoulder against Liverpool" logic. Its far too early to judge either.

Both players have proven goals scoring track records.

Liverpool have also been interested in Dirk Kuyt, another player with a good goal scoring record, domestically and internationally (all be it a short international career).

They also have plenty of midfielders that get goals, Garcia, Gerrard, Alonso, Riise and even Kewell has a good record.

But most importantly Liverpool didnt have too many problems scoring goals last year, they only scored six less than United who have an embarassment of riches when it comes to strikers. Just goes to show that lots of strikers doesnt mean lots of goals.

PHB

Morientes has never imo had a prolific goal scoring record, he scores in big games and places where it counts.

Cisse on the other hand I think is gona have about a 15+ season next year.

Liverpool scored way too few goals last year, as did Man United.
Their defensive record isn't good enough and won't be good enough.

So basically their defense snor attack is good enough to challenge.
Arsenal had the attack this year, United had the defense, Chelsea had both.
You gotta get one.
That said however, I think to get a Chelsea quality defense you'd need 4 players.
But to get the attack right, I think one quality AMC and a Winger and you'd be able to score 60/70 goals a season, which would give ya a shot.

----

p.s.

CL win seems to be a bit of a killer.
Rafa seemed to be interested in players of somewhat 'unknown' quality, i.e. impressive players who aren't big names.
He was going to get them anyway, and didn't need the lure of CL Football or CL winners.
Now cause they won, they are the champions of europe, and thus expected to pay big money for a player.
Kinda funny

SteM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

But most importantly Liverpool didnt have too many problems scoring goals last year, they only scored six less than United who have an embarassment of riches when it comes to strikers. Just goes to show that lots of strikers doesnt mean lots of goals.

But everone said that United's problem last year was that they didn't score enough goals? You're saying they (Liverpool) only scored 6 less than a team that in most peoples opinions performed very poorly in front of goal

On your other point, I do think that a Morientes/Cisse partnership should be given a chance next season, but they'll need to get a quality third striker in if only to challange for a place to keep the others on their toes. The jurys still out on Cisse for me.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Morientes has never imo had a prolific goal scoring record, he scores in big games and places where it counts.

Morientes' record at international level is "prolific". He has also scored c.20 goals in any season where he has been a regular starter.

SteM wrote:

But everone said that United's problem last year was that they didn't score enough goals? You're saying they (Liverpool) only scored 6 less than a team that in most peoples opinions performed very poorly in front of goal

Im a firm believer that to win the league it is better to have a strong defense than a strong attack. I think ultimately Liverpool under Benetiz will be a team with a solid defence rather than a team that scores lots of goals.

If Liverpool score 65 next year (only 13 more than this year) and keep it tighter at the back they will do a lot better. I dont see scoring those extra goals as their problem seeing as Cisse and Alonso will be back, Morientes and Garcia should be fully settled, Gerrard will be fully settled, and thats before any new signings are taken into account.

Id rather see them sign two new defenders than attacking players (although if Baros leaves they obviously need extra cover).

SteM wrote:

On your other point, I do think that a Morientes/Cisse partnership should be given a chance next season, but they'll need to get a quality third striker in if only to challange for a place to keep the others on their toes. The jurys still out on Cisse for me.

I agree with all points.

woodyg

Yea we just didnt score enough goals last year but people have to look a little deeper to find out the reasons. cisse broken leg, fernando wasn't fit when he arrived, baros has hamstrings as fragile as darren "sicknote" anderton, gerrard out for 3 and half months alonso out for over 3 months (lampard mistaking his ankle for the ball :mad: ).

When you take in to account these situations and the fact that our top scorer for the past 4 seasons or so left us in the lurch.

We didnt do to bad in front of goal, but an improvement is needed.

redspider

Bannor wrote:

The stumbling block with the transfers is teams are hiking up prices. ... Figo - free transfer agreed, now Madrid want €6M for the player. Kuyt - exchange deal plus €9M, now want €15M [no exchange]
Johnson - £12M now insted of the £6M
Benitez won't be held to ransom for any transfer

Winning the CL and perceived to have money is a problem for Liverpool when it comes to transfers. This is the "CL premium", so on the one hand the club gets more money in, but everyone will be looking to get as much money from Liverpool as they can in this "free for all" market. There is in effect now a Liverpool premium, just as there is a Chelsea premium. Its a strange marketplace.

Whilst Benitez may want to stick to his guns and valuations, in practice if he and Liverpool want to sign anybody, then they will have to more than likely pay over the odds. This I think will mean that Liverpool may not sign that many players after all. Baros probably wont be sold until a replacement player purchase is sealed. Maybe Owen will come back after all!

I am not happy with Morientes on his physical attributes and effort and my fear is that will barely improve next year. Cisse who is fit does not have delicate ball control and expertise on the ball, he is a physical player. Liverpool will have to play 2 in attack at home, and if Benitez has any sense, he will have to play 2 up front in most of the away matches as well.

Thank god that Gerrard is staying.

Btw, here is what was reported on the liverpoolfc.tv website:


+++
Benitez is currently weighing up his options as he looks to strengthen in time for next season, but he says he only wants to bring in players who will improve the quality of his Champions League winning squad.

"I want to go to the market thinking about players with passion, as well as ability, then I know that we will do better things in the future," he said.

"My plan is to improve the reserve team for next season, and to have some more players ready for the first team.

"As a big club you need to increase your level to look for the best players in the world, and we are trying to find some players for different positions. But the most important thing is to find skilful players, and players with character.

"If we want to increase our level away from home we need that type of player to suit our style of play.

"You need players like Jamie Carragher, for example, with passion. We are trying to find, if possible, both."

+++

He is hinting about buying players for the reserve team. hmmmm

The other things that in general I am not happy about is the huge dependence on Spanish players. ok, I understand that he has more links and knowledge of those players, but a team of Liverpool's calibre should have equal links with all the markets. Liverpool should be able to source the best players from wherever, South America included. With Houllier we had a lot of France connections, but with Benitez the spanish dependency is even more if anything. And it has failed, with the likes of Nunez, Josemi (not neede as we had Finnan, my stance at the time and I think I have been proven right), Morientes to a certain extent, and even Garcia. Alonso has been the find of the bunch, luckily for us. But Benitez's success rate of good player selection is poor so far, imo.

Redspider

PHB

Alonso and Garcia is quite a good return on a year in the transfer market.
Fergie got Rooney + Heinze this year, and spent more than Liverpool
Mourinho got Robben + Ferrerira + Carvalho this year, spending a hell of a lot more money.

He is doing quite good, and the scouting network's that you think are in place are not in place.
Benetiz needs time to rebuild and set up a huge system of scouts, and in time he can look elsewhere, but until then he is getting the top spanish talent, which is good sicne its making the premiership the place to be, which can only be good for the league

woodyg

Raffa has admitted him self that he does seem to concentrate on the spanish leauge but only becuase he knows it and has the scoutting network and contacts in place there.Its the same with Wegner when he arrived He new the French leauge.

Give it time and he will have built up the scouting network he needs it takes a lot of ground work and time to get a good global network up and running.

But he also needds to keep the success of our youth system going it really is were a club can develop for the long term. We have developed a really successful scouting and coaching system there and it needs to be nurished.

I would like to see Steve Thompson brought back in there in a coaching role.

Bannor

redspider wrote:

Whilst Benitez may want to stick to his guns and valuations, in practice if he and Liverpool want to sign anybody, then they will have to more than likely pay over the odds. This I think will mean that Liverpool may not sign that many players after all.

If there is a deal already agreed then the player is in the position of power.

Morientes wanted to go to Liverpool, Madrid were forced to accept the offer on the table, the alternative was to let the player sit out his contract and leave on a free.

Similarly Figo says he wants to go to Liverpool, Perez wanted rid of him so he was going to be released on a free transfer this summer. Now though Perez wants money for the player. The question is how badly does Perez wants rid of Figo.

The agreed fee for Milito was around £6M (€9M), Zaragoza now want more than three times that.

The reason Benitez is looking at the foreign leagues is that there is value for money to be had. Is Peter Crouch worth £7M? Is Andy Johnson worth £12M? Is Shaun Wright-Phillips worth £17M? Is Ledley King worth £18M? There are cheaper and technically superior alternatives available on the continent. He's primarily looking for players which will have a bit of fight in them so they will be able to look after themselves on the pitch (Milito, Pablo Garcia, the trio from Malaga etc), but quality creative players (Figo, Joaquin, Galetti etc) that can provide ammunition for Morientes are also being looked for.

redspider wrote:

I am not happy with Morientes on his physical attributes and effort and my fear is that will barely improve next year. Cisse who is fit does not have delicate ball control and expertise on the ball, he is a physical player. Liverpool will have to play 2 in attack at home, and if Benitez has any sense, he will have to play 2 up front in most of the away matches as well.

Don't be surprised to see the formation from the second half of the Champions League Final used quite a few times next season. Benitez likes a fluid team that can adapt while on the pitch. 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-4-2 > 4-3-3/4-3-2-1/4-3-1-2 > 3-4-3/3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2.

redspider wrote:

Thank god that Gerrard is staying.

Btw, here is what was reported on the liverpoolfc.tv website:


+++
Benitez is currently weighing up his options as he looks to strengthen in time for next season, but he says he only wants to bring in players who will improve the quality of his Champions League winning squad.

"I want to go to the market thinking about players with passion, as well as ability, then I know that we will do better things in the future," he said.

"My plan is to improve the reserve team for next season, and to have some more players ready for the first team.

"As a big club you need to increase your level to look for the best players in the world, and we are trying to find some players for different positions. But the most important thing is to find skilful players, and players with character.

"If we want to increase our level away from home we need that type of player to suit our style of play.

"You need players like Jamie Carragher, for example, with passion. We are trying to find, if possible, both."

+++

He is hinting about buying players for the reserve team. hmmmm

The other things that in general I am not happy about is the huge dependence on Spanish players. ok, I understand that he has more links and knowledge of those players, but a team of Liverpool's calibre should have equal links with all the markets. Liverpool should be able to source the best players from wherever, South America included. With Houllier we had a lot of France connections, but with Benitez the spanish dependency is even more if anything. And it has failed, with the likes of Nunez, Josemi (not neede as we had Finnan, my stance at the time and I think I have been proven right), Morientes to a certain extent, and even Garcia. Alonso has been the find of the bunch, luckily for us. But Benitez's success rate of good player selection is poor so far, imo.

Redspider

If Gerrard stays it will be on Benitez's terms and not his own. By November of last year Benitez was sick of the Steven Gerrard media circus and was prepared to sell the player this summer. Prior to Gerrard having his change of heart regarding Chelsea earlier this year, Benitez and Parry agreed that he was going to get the Owen treatment this summer - There won't be drawn out negotiations it'll be a simple sign the contract or be sold. SFX have already been talking to Arrigo Saachi and Florentino Perez about a potential contract offer from Madrid - they obviously don't want to get outflanked like what happened to Owen last summer. Liverpool still have an offer from Milan for the player.

The club is looking for players at all levels. The quality of the reserves and under age teams is very low. Rafa and Pako want to be able to rotate the squad - there isn't the quality there to do so and still compete with the top three in the league. That's what he's addressing this summer - not every signing is going to be a world class house hold name. In the past I have been told of players the club are looking at and my first reaction is "who the feck is he?" and it gets a similar reaction if I post it here - no doubt there will be a few of those signed this summer

In defense of his signings so far Alonso, Garcia and Morientes are all quality players. Nunez was signed as part of the Owen transfer only because Morientes was cup tied and removed from the deal and Madrid refused to let Juanfran go. Josemi is a backup/squad player, he wasn't signed as a first choice though he did displace Finnan when he arrived. Pellegrino was never anything more than a backup player who also happened to know Rafa's zonal defending system very well and helped out in training.

woodyg

Milan Baros has given strong hints he wants to stay at Liverpool.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=285208&CPID=8&CLID=&lid=2&title=Baros+to+stay+with+Reds&channel=Football_Home

Dam it :mad: .
We need to of load him and get as much money as possible to buy some one who actually can lift his head and score more often than 1 every other 3 months!

RE*AC*TOR

woodyg wrote:

Milan Baros has given strong hints he wants to stay at Liverpool.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=285208&CPID=8&CLID=&lid=2&title=Baros+to+stay+with+Reds&channel=Football_Home

Dam it :mad: .
We need to of load him and get as much money as possible to buy some one who actually can lift his head and score more often than 1 every other 3 months!

In fairness he has HUGE potential. If he can sort his head out. He could do with taking a page from the Karl-Heinz Riedle book of football.

@Bannor
Interesting points about Nunez/Josemi and Pellegrino.

Bannor

There was a scouting trip to the Brazil v Greece game last night to watch a certain Brazilian who plays for Lyon. The Baros to Lyon deal is not dead yet - he doesn't like what's on offer to him, neither did he like the final offer from Valencia and they moved on.

uberwolf

Real Zaragoza defender Gabriel Milito has stated that he would find it very difficult to say no if Liverpool made a concrete offer for him.

Manchester United and Barcelona were also connected to the player but, if its up to Milito, he is going to Anfield:

"If Liverpool make a concrete offer then it would be very difficult to say no," said Milito.

"I am happy at Zaragoza but it is not every day the champions of Europe are interested in you.

"I has asked my club for a fast solution. They already know my position and I do not want to spend my holidays with doubts on where I will play next season."

LizardKing

Theres an article here
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/06/17/story207554.html

About Guti wanting to leave Real Madrid and play in the Premiership

and theres a picture in the Sun of Gerrard and Guti in Ibiza
http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005271099,00.jpg

The Sun think Stevie might go to Real but maybe Guti could come to Anfield

RE*AC*TOR

Pellegrino gone (teamtalk)

Pellegrino given Reds boot

Argentina defender Mauricio Pellegrino has been released by Liverpool after being told he would not get a new contract.

Pellegrino, 33, rejoined manager Rafael Benitez when he moved from Valencia to Anfield in January 2005 on a short-term deal.

He played 12 games for Liverpool with his last appearance coming against Aston Villa on the final day of the season.

redspider

Good points Bannor ..... here are my thoughts ....

Bannor wrote:

If there is a deal already agreed then the player is in the position of power.

I dont think it is so black and white. Everything is in negotiation until contracts are actually signed. Player power and Club powers shift on many factors, and no party is in a position of complete negotiating power.

Clubs that are purchasing want to get the best players for as little as possible, transfer fee wise and wages wise. Players want to get as much salary and bonuses as possible. Selling Clubs want to get as much transfer fee as possible, for their assets. And Agents will want to weasel out as much for their "services" as possible. And everyone will need to consider the players ability, their age, the length of contract they have at the moment, and their current salary and bonuses.

I'd say in any deal, no single party is 100% delighted. Clubs will be happy to get their man, off-load a player, or whatever. But many players are probably playing at Clubs which would not be their first choice, although they ay be happier than being in the reserves for their 1st choice team. There are limited places.

I realise that you know all of this.

Bannor wrote:

Morientes wanted to go to Liverpool, Madrid were forced to accept the offer on the table, the alternative was to let the player sit out his contract and leave on a free.

I dont think it was so simple as that. Morientes was not doing well in the 1st team and was dropped. Real loaned him out to Monaco, saving 33% on the wage bill (they paid the remainder) and he had a stormer of a year, very motivated. Real indicated that he would come back into the fold and the 1st team, but this didnt materialise and he was de-motivated again and wanted to move. So, Morientes wanted to go and Real wanted to sell him. They basically took the best deal that they could get at the time in the Jan window with a player that was CL-tied. Madrid saved a heap on salary costs, so being forced to accept the deal is not exactly true. It was financially better for them to do so.

I think there is a lot that goes on in negotiations that we dont hear about, until someone writes about it in a book or something.

Bannor wrote:

The reason Benitez is looking at the foreign leagues is that there is value for money to be had. Is Peter Crouch worth £7M? Is Andy Johnson worth £12M? Is Shaun Wright-Phillips worth £17M? Is Ledley King worth £18M? There are cheaper and technically superior alternatives available on the continent.

I agree that the english league tends to over-value its own players. Benitez has to look abroad and I would support that stance, as long as he looks at all leagues (markets as I call them) equally, including south america.

Bannor wrote:

He's primarily looking for players which will have a bit of fight in them so they will be able to look after themselves on the pitch (Milito, Pablo Garcia, the trio from Malaga etc), but quality creative players (Figo, Joaquin, Galetti etc) that can provide ammunition for Morientes are also being looked for.

That would be good, in terms of the fight and determination aspect. We can all learn from the effort that Carragher put in this season, and effort is very important in football. Garcia (for many games) and Morientes (for nearly all games) didnt have the fight though!

Bannor wrote:

Don't be surprised to see the formation from the second half of the Champions League Final used quite a few times next season. Benitez likes a fluid team that can adapt while on the pitch. 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-4-2 > 4-3-3/4-3-2-1/4-3-1-2 > 3-4-3/3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2.

I'll be the first to say that his CL 2nd half formation was radical, but it was a risky one. Liverpool had to do it to get back in the game, but the game could have gone 3-1 or 4-0. I cant see him playing it in the english league tbh. He will need to select a formation that enhances the attributes of the players. Playing 4-5-1 is out for me as we dont have a good enough 1. Baros, who may stay if Benitez cant off-load him as it looks like he wants to, needs another up-front, as does Morientes, and Cisse reallt.

Bannor wrote:

If Gerrard stays it will be on Benitez's terms and not his own. By November of last year Benitez was sick of the Steven Gerrard media circus and was prepared to sell the player this summer. Prior to Gerrard having his change of heart regarding Chelsea earlier this year, Benitez and Parry agreed that he was going to get the Owen treatment this summer - There won't be drawn out negotiations it'll be a simple sign the contract or be sold.

I agree that when the contract term starts running out (less than 2 years), then negotiations have to be complete one way or the other. But Gerrard still had resonable negotiating power, as he was a big asset in valuation yterms potentially and was doing quite good on the field.

Bannor wrote:

SFX have already been talking to Arrigo Saachi and Florentino Perez about a potential contract offer from Madrid - they obviously don't want to get outflanked like what happened to Owen last summer. Liverpool still have an offer from Milan for the player.

SFX? I dont understand ....

Bannor wrote:

The club is looking for players at all levels. The quality of the reserves and under age teams is very low. Rafa and Pako want to be able to rotate the squad - there isn't the quality there to do so and still compete with the top three in the league. That's what he's addressing this summer - not every signing is going to be a world class house hold name. In the past I have been told of players the club are looking at and my first reaction is "who the feck is he?" and it gets a similar reaction if I post it here - no doubt there will be a few of those signed this summer

I agree that all areas can be strengthened. I still like the idea that Barca have and that is build a squad of 1st team 23 players and stick with them. Obviously a long term injury, such as say the Cisse leg break needs to be filled. I am sure there will be plenty of players that I havent heard of. But its important I think that whoever is signed that they add quality. I'd rather spend a bit more to get one player than to spend on 5 cheaply and hope that they blossom into a good player. Either approach can work though. No-one has yet cracked an ideal way to assess new players. Arsenal seem to have given up on big buy purchases and are instead creating a development environment for prospective youths.

Bannor wrote:

In defense of his signings so far Alonso, Garcia and Morientes are all quality players. Nunez was signed as part of the Owen transfer only because Morientes was cup tied and removed from the deal and Madrid refused to let Juanfran go. Josemi is a backup/squad player, he wasn't signed as a first choice though he did displace Finnan when he arrived. Pellegrino was never anything more than a backup player who also happened to know Rafa's zonal defending system very well and helped out in training.

I agree that Alonso is a good player. Whether Benitez just got lucky with him or whehter it was astute judgement I still dont know. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was good judgement.

Morientes has some good touches but he is well past his best before date. People say its fitness but it cant be just down to that. In Real he was good, but then Gravesen is good in that team too. I dont think he is the right type of player for Liverpool. He's ideal for Bolton who specialise in European near-retirees. I fear when I hear Benitez saying that he has big plans for Morientes next year. This is where his over-loyalty for all things from Spain nay be an achilles heel. It certainly was last year with Pellegrino, who cost us the 4th place last year on his own.

Garcia obviously hs skill, but was found to be wanting in many games for a) keepint the ball and b) distributing it. Also, he is another one of the chosen few for Benitez so gets a great position on the field. Having said all that, he did get his finger out on occasion, in the CL notably, such as the Chelsea match. He had a quiet CL final though, but everyone is allowed an off-day like that!

Nunez has proven to be a waste so far. He is played as a winger yet cant cross the ball or get past defenders. Even if signed as part of the Owen deal, it would have been better to take money instead or to get someone else.

Josemi was not signed as a backup player. He was signed as a 1st team player and given plenty of opportunity to play. Benitez dropped Finnan, which I vehemently claimed was an error, as well as the signing of Josemi.

Pellegrino, again you mention him as a backup player. However, Benitez put him in the 1st team, and when he was found out for pace, he played 5 at the back. This cost Liverpool points, perhaps as many as 6, and the 4th place. A complete disaster for Benitez imo. Even if he did know the zonal system, that was no reason to buy him.

I'll be looking very carefully at Benitez's signings this year. Even if he uses a "random" selection method, he hopefully wont get it as much wrong as the bunch he got in last year imo. Maybe they will all improve, we will see.

Redspider

Bannor

Big post to respond to - I'll be back later to do so.

SFX : Gerrard's agents/representatives.

redspider

Bannor wrote:

SFX : Gerrard's agents/representatives.

Thanks for the link and info. I hadnt heard of SFX. So, SFX = Gerard's agents.

I see they also represent Owen but also Hansen, Lineker and Gabi Logan/Yorath ... hmm, maybe thats why the latter 3 have nothing too bad to say about Gerrard or Owen!! Hmm, not sure if this is a problem with the game but surely the media should be independent of the players! I mean, imagine if the Irish Times and other Irish media were represented by the same organisation as the Politicians? Oh, look at RTE - they are !! And Gabi being represented, cant understand that. Surely a model agency would be more appropriate.


Back to football:

Quote: Bannor: SFX have already been talking to Arrigo Saachi and Florentino Perez about a potential contract offer from Madrid - they obviously don't want to get outflanked like what happened to Owen last summer. Liverpool still have an offer from Milan for the player.


ok, so you are saying that both Madrid and Milan are still interested in Gerrard. Well, I'm sure he could go if the price is right, and as you say, if the player is wanting to leave its another factor in the negotiation. However, I think Gerrard will stay and is just looking to get more money from Liverpool. His representatives will want to make sure that to do that there are plenty of clubs wanting to pay big money for him. It will help them in the negotiations.

I dont know what the stats are, but I'd say there must be 10 times as many offers as there are actually deals.

But you are right, the clock is ticking for Gerrard and he will have to settle his situation with Liverpool in the coming weeks. It would be a shame if he dallied and dithered as that will taint him in terms of Liverpool fans.

Redspider

Lex Luthor

redspider wrote:

I agree that Alonso is a good player. Whether Benitez just got lucky with him or whehter it was astute judgement I still dont know. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was good judgement.

Alonso was not good judgement. A lot of the big clubs around Europe had been looking at him for a while.
I saw an interview with Guillem Ballague on Sky Sports about 6 months before the name Alonso became known to Liverpool fans and he stated then that he would be playing at Anfield at the start of 2004 season. He also said for the last year the Spanish national team staff were planning to build the future team around him & Reyes.

Bannor

Plenty of people on here knew about Alonso before he signed for Liverpool. He wasn't a shot in the dark for Benitez, the player was lifted out from under the noses of Real Madrid while they were trying to finalise the Vieira transfer with Arsenal.

Official Alonso bid thread

midget lord

Alonso was being sought after by madrid and a few other for quite a while, soc wouldnt sell to a direct competitor, or so RB was told when he made an approach while at the helm in valencia. As soon as he came to anfield he made another approach, the rest is history! And so is five times!

Bannor

redspider wrote:

I dont think it was so simple as that. Morientes was not doing well in the 1st team and was dropped. Real loaned him out to Monaco, saving 33% on the wage bill (they paid the remainder) and he had a stormer of a year, very motivated. Real indicated that he would come back into the fold and the 1st team, but this didnt materialise and he was de-motivated again and wanted to move. So, Morientes wanted to go and Real wanted to sell him. They basically took the best deal that they could get at the time in the Jan window with a player that was CL-tied. Madrid saved a heap on salary costs, so being forced to accept the deal is not exactly true. It was financially better for them to do so.

In the case of Morientes - last summer Chelsea came in with an offer of €20M, Perez was saying yes but the newly installed manager Camacho was saying no, the player also said no.

Perez wanted to get rid of Morientes because of his part in the player revolt during the clubs centenary celebrations (A group of the players lead by Raul, Hierro and Morientes boycotted a celebration dinner and embarrassed Perez. They showed up over two hours late thinking the dinner would be over and the party would have started. Perez tore strips out of them and vowed to get revenge.). Hierro was got rid of, Morientes was sent to Monaco and Raul was too powerful to touch until after the club presidential elections.

Camacho wanted to build a team with a Spanish core and get rid of the Galaticos. Figo, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo all had contract offers from Chelsea at the time and Camacho wanted to load them all in to a car and drive them to London himself. He also wanted Raul and Morientes to spearhead his team and re-ignite the partership that they had, and he wanted to sign Xabi Alonso as the player to replace Zidane in midfield.

Morientes wanted to stay at the club and was hoping that Perez would lose the presidential elections. He had already recieved assurances from Camacho that he would be in the team.

Afterwards there was a call from Rafa Benitez enquiring about the player. Again Perez wanted to talk, the manager wasn't interested, but Morientes talked to Benitez and explained that he wanted to make a go of it at the club and if he didn't get things sorted then he would definitely consider a move to Liverpool. Afterwards he told Camacho that if Perez won the club election then he wanted to leave Madrid.

In August the Michael Owen contract saga happened and Benitez was back to Madrid looking to do an exchange deal. There was an agreement in place regarding the Champions League qualifiers that neither player would play and then Camacho went and brought Morientes on as a late substitute so the exchange deal was binned. Benitez wanted Juanfran included in the deal but Camacho said no because he saw him as Figo's replacement. As a consilation prize Nunez was added to the transfer as a make weight.

Shortly there after it all went a bit tits up for Morientes at Madrid. Camacho failed to offload any of the Galaticos, Perez was insisting that Owen play ahead of the player, one Galatico revolt later Camacho was out on his ear and to top it off Perez won the election. Luxemburgo came in and tried to smooth over the cracks, telling Morientes that he was in his plans etc. etc. By December, Morientes didn't know if he was coming or going, the coach was telling him he was part of the plan but he was still only making substitute appearances.

Once Benitez had the chance to talk to the player again everything changed - Morientes was set on joining Liverpool. Perez tried to squeeze the club for more money for the transfer because there were higher offers but Morientes turned around and said that if Real didn't accept the Liverpool offer he would sit out the remainder of his contract and join Liverpool on a free transfer. Perez threathened to loan him to a team in Siberia but there was no flinching. In the end Perez backed down and Rafa got his man.

Madrid did make a saving on wages but the fact remains that the Liverpool offer was accepted even though there were higher offers on the table.

Bannor

redspider wrote:

I agree that all areas can be strengthened. I still like the idea that Barca have and that is build a squad of 1st team 23 players and stick with them. Obviously a long term injury, such as say the Cisse leg break needs to be filled. I am sure there will be plenty of players that I havent heard of. But its important I think that whoever is signed that they add quality. I'd rather spend a bit more to get one player than to spend on 5 cheaply and hope that they blossom into a good player. Either approach can work though. No-one has yet cracked an ideal way to assess new players. Arsenal seem to have given up on big buy purchases and are instead creating a development environment for prospective youths.

Rafa and Pako want a squad of 20 outfield players to be rotated through out the season.

redspider wrote:

I agree that Alonso is a good player. Whether Benitez just got lucky with him or whehter it was astute judgement I still dont know. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was good judgement.

Alonso had long be known to be one of the best talents in Spain. John Toshack had recommended the player to Liverpool even before Benitez was on the radar.

redspider wrote:

Morientes has some good touches but he is well past his best before date. People say its fitness but it cant be just down to that. In Real he was good, but then Gravesen is good in that team too. I dont think he is the right type of player for Liverpool. He's ideal for Bolton who specialise in European near-retirees. I fear when I hear Benitez saying that he has big plans for Morientes next year. This is where his over-loyalty for all things from Spain nay be an achilles heel. It certainly was last year with Pellegrino, who cost us the 4th place last year on his own.

The player himself has admitted that he has struggled to cope with the physical aspect of the Premiership, but to be fair to the player he only made substitute appearances for Madrid in the first half of the season and they weren't of the Vladimir Smicer in the Champions League Final more like the time wasting variety.

redspider wrote:

Garcia obviously hs skill, but was found to be wanting in many games for a) keepint the ball and b) distributing it. Also, he is another one of the chosen few for Benitez so gets a great position on the field. Having said all that, he did get his finger out on occasion, in the CL notably, such as the Chelsea match. He had a quiet CL final though, but everyone is allowed an off-day like that!

He didn't do too badly for a player in his first season in the Premiership. He got lumps kicked out of him and received no protection from referees yet he soldiered on regardless. The treatment of Garcia has caused Benitez to question the choice of players he was hoping to bring to the club so it's not likely we're going to see him sign flair players that fall over when the wind blows.

redspider wrote:

Nunez has proven to be a waste so far. He is played as a winger yet cant cross the ball or get past defenders. Even if signed as part of the Owen deal, it would have been better to take money instead or to get someone else.

There wasn't extra money on offer - it was a case of take the player and money or just take the money offered. Nunez isn't likely to be starting line-up material.

redspider wrote:

Josemi was not signed as a backup player. He was signed as a 1st team player and given plenty of opportunity to play. Benitez dropped Finnan, which I vehemently claimed was an error, as well as the signing of Josemi.

Josemi was signed as a squad player. Benitez didn't rate Finnan when he arrived and came close to selling him. Josemi did well when he initially played then he got injured and lost form.

redspider wrote:

Pellegrino, again you mention him as a backup player. However, Benitez put him in the 1st team, and when he was found out for pace, he played 5 at the back. This cost Liverpool points, perhaps as many as 6, and the 4th place. A complete disaster for Benitez imo. Even if he did know the zonal system, that was no reason to buy him.

The player was a free transfer and only cost the price of his wages - he was mainly used to rest the two first choice central defenders. Pellegrino did not prevent Liverpool from getting 4th spot - lack lustre performances against the likes of
Birmingham, Blackburn, Bolton, Everton, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Villa before Christmas saw to that.

Chucky the tree

whats the deal with andy johnson? i cant imagine him agreeing to stay with palace i nthe championship, basically waving goodbye to any chance of making the english world cup squad.

uberwolf

Reina has reiterated his intentions to play for Liverpool.
Further speculation re: Gerrard and Real.

StickyMcGinty

i'd like to see reina coming, i think he's a lot of potential.

i think this year is our best chance to sign quality players on the back of our champions league success, how much does rafa have to spend?
is parry gonna make available all of the 20million that we got from the champions league?

Drag00n79

Chucky the tree wrote:

whats the deal with andy johnson? i cant imagine him agreeing to stay with palace i nthe championship, basically waving goodbye to any chance of making the english world cup squad.

According to the papers today, Johnson has handed in a transfer request. Can't blame the guy really.