THIRTY YEAR age gap - what do you make of it?

seahorse

My sister is on a weeks holiday abroad. She rang me two nights ago to report the 'happy' news that she's just fallen in love (in the matter of five days?! Excuse me, but to my mind that's mental in itself!:eek: ) The clanger is already given away in the title - he's 57 and she's just gone 28.:eek: Apparently this man has a 30 year old daughter...

Is it just me or does anyone else think there has to be something at least a little pervy about a man who's willing to have sex with a female younger than his own daughter??? I'm praying this wont amount to anything... Opinions please???

smcelhinney

I suppose. But thats a very society-driven perspective on it.

Preconceptions and stigma aside, if she's happy, whats the problem?

projectmayhem

indeed if she's happy then there shouldn't be any problems from your end at all. of course we can all wonder what a 28 year old and a 57 year old possibly have in common...

undecided

lets face it any man of that age will take it from any younger woman no matter of looks, size or personality!

In saying that older men are very likely to cherish a younger woman. A friend of mine is with a man 25 years her senior and idolises her. She knows it and plays it for all it worth but is quite content with him due to his maturity and secuirty of it!

So I would imagine it depends on the idividual and what they want out of the relationship.

BrandonBlock

(57 / 2) + 7 = 35.5

Nope afraid that's not on at all!

Victor

I think allow your sister her holiday romance, many don't survive the return to normality.

projectmayhem wrote:

indeed if she's happy then there shouldn't be any problems from your end at all. of course we can all wonder what a 28 year old and a 57 year old possibly have in common...

A failing heart and a gold seeking JCB?

The Sweeper

far as I'm concerned, once you hit 25 you're an adult in all senses and free to make your own mistakes. If she was 18 it'd be a different thing. Even 21... or at a push 24... but she's 28 years old. Leave her to it.

Dave!

BrandonBlock wrote:

(57 / 2) + 7 = 35.5

Nope afraid that's not on at all!

ROFL

seahorse

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

far as I'm concerned, once you hit 25 you're an adult in all senses and free to make your own mistakes. If she was 18 it'd be a different thing. Even 21... or at a push 24... but she's 28 years old. Leave her to it.

OK, thanks everyone for your responses, but I suppose it was a bit stupid of me to expect people to get where I'm coming from with next to none of the important facts, I was just a bit reluctant to plaster our family business all over the internet, but f--k it, it's an anonymous internet board, so here goes:

Our father killed himself in the winter of '89, my sister was nine at the time, and she was very much the daddys girl of the family. It hit her hardest, no doubt about it. When she was seventeen (in ‘96) she ran off with a 32 year old man and moved in with him. When that relationship hit the skids about five years later she traded up for an older model, did the same thing twice over in the following years, till she was with a 44 year old, who she only broke up with last month.

When that relationship finished (she ended it) she told me she was going to start seeing men of around her own age; that it was pointless being involved with men this much older as she wanted a family and wasnt interested in them having a dad who'd be well into his fifties by the time she got round to having kids and they were of school age. Now (remember, just four weeks later) here we go again. It seems like she's on a mission to bag the oldest man she can find. I've been watching this peculiar carry on in her relationship history for over ten years and I'm convinced she's on a mission to replace her dad, and also that it's emotionally and psychologically unhealthy. She's never been with anyone remotely resembling her own age, and they get considerably older with each relationship, but this 30 year gap just beats all!

If you'd heard her ranting on the phone the other night! She was going on about the way she'd "never felt like this before' (after five days???!!), the way she "now knows what butterflies in the stomach actually means", and how "his is a gentleman, in and out of bed" (pass the sick bucket!) I'm sorry and maybe some people will think I'm just being prejudiced, but for me a man who's willing to have sex with someone younger than his own daughter, well that leaves some impressions on me, and "gentleman" is not one of them.

In fairness to this man I'm certain he knows nothing of her history; I'm not saying he's deliberately taking advantage or anything like that, but that dosent take from the fact that this is psychologically unhealthy from her end. When I told our elder brother about her news (she is already planning to visit him again, before she even gets home) he just said to me; "there are bogey psychological reasons for all this, you know that, don’t you?". He took the thoughts right out of my head. As far as we can see she is throwing away the last of her youth and if this does turn into something serious (and knowing my sister, believe me, it will) we'll end up listening to the usual lamentations five or six years down the line when she'll be into her mid thirties and could have been starting a family with someone. Don’t forget, that's what she maintained she wanted just weeks before she went away...

I know some women out there are just into much older men and that's the end of that, and as was pointed out, she is 28, nowhere near a child; but I've been involved her in life long enough to know that all this is coming from an unhealthy place, and I just dont know what, if anything, to do about it.

If you’ve made it to the end of this post fair play to you, please go an extra few minutes and tell me; If this was your sister, and you knew this carry on was triggered by a deep seated and unhealthy psychological issue, what would you see fit to do or say to her???

spurious

It may be, but 'this carry on' might just as likely be because she likes him. Most of what we all do has some psychological basis - it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

She's not a baby. I agree with Minesajackdaniels, once she's over 25, leave them to it.

I was actually thinking earlier about some co-workers of mine, there is a 30 yr gap between them and I could see them together.

Fwaggle

BrandonBlock wrote:

(57 / 2) + 7 = 35.5

Do people actually live by these "rules"? She's a grown woman - leave her to it. If it was my sister then I would be happy that she was happy tbh.

seahorse

Fwaggle wrote:

She's a grown woman - leave her to it. If it was my sister then I would be happy that she was happy tbh.

If she was happy then I'd be happy for her Fwaggle, but she's not happy, she's miserable, and I've been watching her get progressively more so throughout these relationships and hit a very depressive all-time-low each time they fold: then she goes on about how she intends to change her relationship inclinations, only to turn round and repeat the exact same sorry business all over again.

I’ve literally woken up with blood shot eyes from having listened to her talk late into the night about all these relationship woes on many occasions (principally about how she’s going to end it). Honest go God, when she gets going with all this she can string it out for MONTHS – last time round I snapped and told her to “s—t or get off the pot”. She shat… eventually…

I'm not saying people shouldnt start relationships with others outside and beyond all sorts of social 'norms'. What I'm saying is that an endless hunt for daddy that will remain fruitless till the end of a womans natural life is in no way healthy and no positive addition to a persons life.

This is not something I've dreamt up myself; it's a general family consensus based on 28 years experience of an individual, so please people, do not start querying whether I am dreaming this up, but rather tell me what you think I ought to do about it. If what you think I ought to do is sweet f-all, then that's fine, I'm looking for honest opinions so if that's what you feel you're welcome to say so.

Schism

If it was my sister I'd tell her straight out shes not going to get anything long term out of these relationships, at least not in terms of starting a family anyway. She probably wants to find a guy her own age but finds it easier to be with a guy her senior. Considering you said she isnt happy in these relationship I would have to say something too her.

This is just what I would do in your position though. gl with it.

seahorse

seahorse wrote:

This is not something I've dreamt up myself; it's a general family consensus based on 28 years experience of an individual, so please people, do not start querying whether I am dreaming this up, but rather tell me what you think I ought to do about it. If what you think I ought to do is sweet f-all, then that's fine, I'm looking for honest opinions so if that's what you feel you're welcome to say so.

I should imagine that you would want to let her make her own mistakes and just be there when she falls to be honest.
She seems to have an attraction to much older men obviously-whether this is directly related to her father dying when she was 9,We couldn't tell you.
On paper and "amateur psychology wise" you could draw that conclusion but you could be very wrong.

I would remind her each time though that her saying this is the one after 5 days or whatever is another example of her not knowing what "the one" actually is.
Don't worry about this latest fling-the fact it's on holidays suggests it won't last anyhow.

Out of curiosity has she made any attempt at falling for some one her own age ever? and how long has that lasted?
Secondly do her interests and outlook on life co incide with the older people she is attracted to?
It might sound like less of a problem but there are plenty of people who are putting it about with people their own age and either havent found the one at 28 or aren't happy either.

Relax the caks and play this one by ear.

Wibbs

I'm with seahorse on this one I have to say. Regardless of whether she's 28 or 18, or 38 an unhealthy relationship is just that, unhealthy. For whatever reason. I'm not suggesting big age gaps can't and don't work. Not at all, but the pattern here is not good. If she had been going out with men in the standard age group and then happened to fall in love with a much older man I would be a lot less worried, TBH.

I knew a woman exactly like the OP's sister. They had to be much older than her. A ten year gap was a young fella. Interestingly she had a similar story with the lack of a father from the age of ten(for different reasons). Granted this is pop psychology, but I have noticed women with absent fathers(for whatever reasons) tend to at least go through a phase of much older men. They usually snap out of it, sometimes even to go so far as bounce back to younger men than them. I've seen that on three occasions. :eek: The woman I gave as an example went at the age of 30, from a 58 year old to moving in with a 24 year old immediately after.

That search for emotional reinforcement and acceptance from a father figure is strong. He will get the whole "helping her grow" in return and the kudos from his male peers of the "younger woman".

The problem with big age gaps is that there is a power imbalance for want of a better word. A man of fifty can generally run rings around a much younger woman on an emotional and psychological level. The temptation is there to do that and not always for the good. If I'm dealing with a woman of 21, I know which buttons to press. I have an advantage being older. I certainly have an "advantage" over men of 21 that would be in competition for her. I've been tempted, but you just can't go there.

I also agree with the opinions that as she is 28, there's sweet fanny adams you can really do in obvious ways to help her directly. Any pushing from you will make her even more determined to continue on this course.

If it was me, I think I would do the thing that seems the least likely to help. I would not listen to her anymore. I would refuse to listen to her tales of woe. I reckon that having all these shoulders to cry on may be reinforcing her behaviour. Put it this way what you're doing now and have been doing up to now, hasn't worked. Change of tack maybe? That's just my take on it.

seahorse

Wibbs wrote:

I knew a woman exactly like the OP's sister. They had to be much older than her. A ten year gap was a young fella.

LOL, that's my sister all over. There's eight years between me and my bloke and she regards him to be just that - a youngfella - and the man's 39 years of age!

Wibbs wrote:

The problem with big age gaps is that there is a power imbalance for want of a better word. A man of fifty can generally run rings around a much younger woman on an emotional and psychological level.

You're bang on the money there Wibbs; I've been seeing that in my sisters relationships for years. The psychological manipulation usually manifests itself when she feels it's time to extricate herself from the relationship. That's when the emotional blackmail kicks in, and it can and usually does take YEARS for her to get up the gumption to do what she'd been planning to do. I guess men in their forties and fifties arent in a hurry to let go of a young one cause they know there isnt likely to be a string of twentysomething replacements lining up outside their doors...

Wibbs wrote:

If it was me, I think I would do the thing that seems the least likely to help. I would not listen to her anymore. I would refuse to listen to her tales of woe. I reckon that having all these shoulders to cry on may be reinforcing her behaviour. Put it this way what you're doing now and have been doing up to now, hasn't worked. Change of tack maybe? That's just my take on it.

You know it's funny you say that because the last time I went through all this with her, (as I detailed above, the time I eventually threw my hands up and told her to s--t or get off the pot) that was the first time she stopped whinging to me and just got on with dumping the bloke!

And Tristrame, you said that I ought to "let her make her own mistakes and just be there when she falls"; yes there's sense in that, at least there was eleven years ago when she first ran off with that 32 year old. That's exactly what I thought to myself at that time, I thought "I'll be here when it all goes belly up; she'll cop on in her own time". It's just that her own time is taking a hell of a lot longer than anyone could have predicted!

Anyway, I think I'm going to take Wibbs advice and just refuse to hear any more of it. I think a kind of 'I've heard enough now' attitude might go some way towards getting her to reevaluate things on her own steam. Thanks everyone.

seahorse

Sorry, I forgot to answer these questions:

Tristrame wrote:

Out of curiosity has she made any attempt at falling for some one her own age ever? and how long has that lasted?

Brief flings and one nights stands would be the height of it, and even so we're talking men in her own age range, but always older, by at least a few years. They last no time. The only long term relationships have been with much older men.

Tristrame wrote:

Secondly do her interests and outlook on life coincide with the older people she is attracted to?

Not at all, and that is one of the most worrying aspects of it. She's a real party girl and these men invariably are the slipper and pipes type. Their lifestyles clash big-time and this always leads to total ructions in the relationship, generally with this power tussle going on where he’ll try to get her to settle down and she’ll rebel against that. It’s like she wants the security of a much older man, but none of the other realities that come with that.

I understand why some people would tell me to butt out, but she’s been down this road three times already and a hat trick isn’t good enough for her… Now this time she’s really going for broke. How she thinks she’ll gel with a man approaching 60 when she couldn’t make it work with men ten years younger than that is beyond me, and I know when it all comes crashing down I'll be the one with the phone ringing at 2am...:rolleyes:

The more I consider it the more certain I am that I should just tell her do what she likes and leave me out of it this time round.

karen3212

Hi,

I heard on QI(stephen fry) saying that the ideal gap was half the man's age + 7.

ie if the man is 50 then woman = 32.

The thing is I know you are worried. And you obviously love your sister, which is great for both of you. It seems you are very close and she comes to you with all her interesting adventures.
My only piece of advice is, she may need to work out whatever it is she needs to get through. I think we all go through relationships cause we need to work through certain things.

Please just be there for her, and listen to her rave away for hours if you have to , she obviously values and loves you very much. Please don't judge her, let her work through whatever she needs, and as long as she has you she will never feel alone.

Jotter

If I were you Id tell her youre not overly happy with her seeing this bloke for the reasons you told us above. If she insists shes happy then tell her youre happy for her but you dont want all the gory details and dont want to hear her gushing about him every 5 mins. (Even if she didnt have a bad track record, hearing how much someone is in love every 2 mins gets boring by anyones standards!!)

If/when she gets let down, or bored or whatever and they break up then is the time to voice your concerns and suggest she sees a counsellor, if shes reluctant you could suggest you go as a family, that way shell have support and wont feel like youre suggesting shes mad.

You never know going as a family anyway might help you all as it sounds like youve been through a lot together.

If she rejects the councellor idea then Im afraid you just have to sit back and let her get on with it, but Id put my foot down about listening to her woes, if shes not willing to help herself then why should you put your life on hold to help her? Some people like drama, they dont want their problems to ever be solved bec then the drama is gone and in their eyes life becomes boring.

But shes your sister, we can only guess at what shes like, the last thing you want is to fall out with her so tread carefully whatever you decide to do & bes tof luck with it all, i dont envy you!!

seahorse

seahorse wrote:

The more I consider it the more certain I am that I should just tell her do what she likes and leave me out of it this time round.

Oh don't do that.Just don't get involved whilst keeping an eye for the fall out.
There is the possibility that she might never learn.
But then again she might eventually find a compromise.

seahorse

Thanks everyone. I'll let youse know how it goes. She was due back this morning but her phones ringing out so I'm assuming she's sleeping off a week of drinking and shagging! :eek:

A mad thought has just occured to me: Maybe this man will experience some problems in that department what with his age and everything - that'd send her running straight out of there with no help from me, youse, or anyone else! Let's hear it for erectile dysfunction!

ferdi

I understand perfectly when people are saying 'oh, she's a grown adult, leave her at it' but hold on...when a 28year old woman proclaims to have 'fallen in love' after 5 days on holidays...i'd tend to question the maturity and stability levels of that individual.

seahorse

ferdi wrote:

I understand perfectly when people are saying 'oh, she's a grown adult, leave her at it' but hold on...when a 28year old woman proclaims to have 'fallen in love' after 5 days on holidays...i'd tend to question the maturity and stability levels of that individual.

So would I, bloody big-time. And I doubt we're even talking about five days aquaintance here, not that it makes a huge deal of difference, but it has occured to me that unless she met him on the plane or walking out of the airport theres no way they even spent five days together.

She was also travelling with a female friend of hers, who obviously would have been taking up the majority of her time, so I'm estimating they couldnt have spent more time together than it would have taken to have dinner and a ride, and she's "in love"!:eek: If that dosent scream emotional instabiliy I dont know what does...

mickoo

at 58 i'd say fair play to him, there is nothing perverted about a man wanting to shag a woman in more peak condition than himself, the weird part is her, at 28 she must have issues-maybe he is worth a few quid and she see's dollar signs or he is just telling her what she wants to hear-either way he'll be a happy lad!!

seahorse wrote:

A mad thought has just occured to me: Maybe this man will experience some problems in that department what with his age and everything - that'd send her running straight out of there with no help from me, youse, or anyone else! Let's hear it for erectile dysfunction!

Dont think so-imagine how excited he'd be by a 28 yr old girl when he's more used to 55-60 year olds! i think he will be excited for quite some time in fairness.

meglome

In fairness she isn't the only person I've heard of or known that on a subconscious level is going out with one of their parents. It's just your sister is taking it a bit further than most age wise. She is an adult and there's nothing anyone can do.

seahorse

mickoo wrote:

at 58 i'd say fair play to him, there is nothing perverted about a man wanting to shag a woman in more peak condition than himself...

I'm sure he'd be in agreement with you on the subject of his 28 year old fling. It'd be interesting to hear how he'd receive the same argument if an elderly friend of his was shagging his 30 year old daughter though.

mickoo wrote:

the weird part is her, at 28 she must have issues-maybe he is worth a few quid and she see's dollar signs...

She has issues, as I've already laid out in this thread, but they have nothing to do with money. My sister has always worked hard and paid her own way. Thanks.

chump

ferdi wrote:

I understand perfectly when people are saying 'oh, she's a grown adult, leave her at it' but hold on...when a 28year old woman proclaims to have 'fallen in love' after 5 days on holidays...i'd tend to question the maturity and stability levels of that individual.

So would I. The PC-brigade are being ridiculous here.
The girl obviously has issues and you've every right to be concerned.

Even if she didn't have issues you'd be perfectly normal to be dubious about the relationship.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. However irrational the feelings she has are - any sort of ultimatum or intervention on your part isn't going to be effective. You need to support her positively and play along with it.
It seems from your comments that this, like her previous relationships, is doomed to failure.
When failure comes that is the time to intervene. In a serious manner, with the assistance of professional help.

In the meantime, provided the relationship goes on for a bit, it would be worth your while getting to know the man - he may well be a very decent chap. But even more important than that it'll allow him to reach out to you when/if the sh1t hits the fan, and she is needing some help.

pwd

maybe she'll think about it moe soberly now she is no longer on holiday.
i agree age gap is too large

james2006

I think you and your brother need to confront your sister and tell her exactly what you've posted on this forum. Tell her that you're concerned about her behaviour and that she should consider counselling.

SarahSassy

james2006 wrote:

I think you and your brother need to confront your sister and tell her exactly what you've posted on this forum. Tell her that you're concerned about her behaviour and that she should consider counselling.

This is the best advice so far. You have a problem with her and you are concerned about her - tell her!!!!!!! It does sound like a cry for help to me (pop psychology) and the fact that she has had a number of relationships with older guys cements this theory. She sounds like she is reacting to your Father's passing by trying to replace him but in fairness to her she may not even realise she is doing this.....

DublinWriter

seahorse wrote:

what would you see fit to do or say to her???

Agreed, it is feckin' insane, but at the end of the day you are not your sister's keeper, you have your own life to deal with and she is a fully grown adult.

Leave her to it and don't let her expect you to pick up the pieces.

Firetrap

There isn't a lot you can do other than hope it runs its course soon. She knows you don't approve of the relationship but as you well know, nothing you say will make one bit of difference to the way she feels about him. At the moment they're both getting something out of the relationship; he can't believe his luck and she's got a father figure/boyfriend in one package. Short of reprogramming her brain it's hard to know what to do. Maybe some counselling might help, though getting her to go is another matter entirely.

gandalf

OK couple of things, I think you mentioned she broke up with a similar relationship recently, she is on the rebound. Also this is a holiday romance all wonderful when you don't have to work in sunny climbs etc. The majority of these then to fizzle out after a couple of weeks back home. I'd suggest standing back and letting things take their natural course and be there when your sis wants to talk things over. Unfortunately as a brother this is part of your duties. I would not pass judgement on this situation to your sister as this may drive her into his arms.

Then again he may be right for her and she may be right for him. As Majd says she is an adult and as such she controls her own life.