Previous actions affect future results??

eggie

Player A & B: Both tight aggressivewhen playing 9 handed, active in position but being selective also, like to steal a lot of small pots. Both capable of making good laydowns and calling with marginal hands if they think they are ahead,both have been playing seemingly fairly solid and have only shown strong hands when gone to showdown. Both winning 90%+ of showdowns. B has been raising a lot in position from 5 handed down without much resistance. A realises this and wants to take a stand at some point.

Player A: 130K
Player B: 80K

3 handed, Blinds 1k/2k

Small blind: Player B
Big blind: Player A
Button: Player C

Background:
Shortly in to final table Player A gets JJ UTG, blinds 500/1000. Raises to 4k, player on immediate left re-raises to 16k, folded back to A. These are the 2 biggest stacks at the table on around 70k each (280k in play). A deliberates and folds JJ face up. Player B (not involved in this hand) comments on a good lay down.

5 handed: Player B raises with 10 10, gets called. heads up to flop of Ah 2h 7d. B checks, opponent checks. turn xd. B bets, opponent calls. River Ad. B checks, oppponent bets pot, B folds. Oponnent had J2o.


Back to 3 handed at FT.

Button folds. Player B raises to 6k with 10 3
Player A calls with Js 5s

Flop: 10s 3h 8s

B checks, A checks behind. (14k)

Turn: 6d

B bets 11k, A immediatley re-raises to 40K

Anyone find a fold here?

Prizes: 2300 + wsop sat ticket(150euro)
1900 & 1300.

opr

I am not folding and i bet that flop. You have raised with rubbish hit a dream flop and you check i don't understand this.

Your check on the flop looks weak and now it looks like a delayed continuation bet. I am all in.

btw i would edit the post to not shown the villians hand.

Opr

eggie

opr wrote:

I am not folding and i bet that flop. You have raised with rubbish hit a dream flop and you check i don't understand this.

Your check on the flop looks weak and now it looks like a delayed continuation bet. I am all in.

btw i would edit the post to not shown the villians hand.

Opr

I want the hand and actions to be transparent as possible for more accurate discussion/criticism/advice. Which hand is the villains?

opr

eggie wrote:

I want the hand and actions to be transparent as possible for more accurate discussion/criticism/advice. Which hand is the villains?

I took it that it was A but if its the other way around i don't like the preflop call with J5 and if you really want to take a stand i repop it preflop.

Opr

BuChan

i don't think this should be folded. 10 3 is looking pretty fantastic here. 88/66 would reraise preflop blind on blind and 108 106 are unlikely to have called at all preflop, 97 would almost certainly have bet the flop if checked to. instapush.

BuChan

opr wrote:

I took it that it was A but if its the other way around i don't like the preflop call with J5 and if you really want to take a stand i repop it preflop.

Opr

in this situation i don't think that the J5 had to be repopped preflop as villian was aggressive preflop but fairly passive postflop and never had a 2nd bullet for the turn. but obviously you couldn't know this.

eggie

BuChan wrote:

in this situation i don't think that the J5 had to be repopped preflop as villian was aggressive preflop but fairly passive postflop and never had a 2nd bullet for the turn. but obviously you couldn't know this.

Agreed, I should have mentioned this. He seems to slow down when countering resistance. Buchan was player C who folded.

I'm player A
Villain player B to add more transparency.

opr

BuChan wrote:

in this situation i don't think that the J5 had to be repopped preflop as villian was aggressive preflop but fairly passive postflop and never had a 2nd bullet for the turn. but obviously you couldn't know this.

Does this mean its your intention when you call preflop to float any flop against him ?

Opr

eggie

opr wrote:

Does this mean its your intention when you call preflop to float any flop against him ?

Opr

villain is capable of raising with any 2 here, my intention is simply to see a flop and evaluate from there. Its 3 handed, my hand has potential. Post flop i think i have an edge. I f i re-raise pre flop i gotta fold to a push, which villain is capable of doing. My intention is to put a lot of pressure on him post flop if i think its meritted and have folding equity on the board. Cards are pretty irrelevant pre flop.

sikes

why would you check the flop and then raise the turn? That really makes no sense to me.

BuChan

i defended my blinds with a lot of trash hands against him quite a few times at the final table by just flat calling and bluffing the flop or turn. he showed good aggression preflop but his flop play was a bit weak, he'd cbet the flop and shut down on the turn without a decent holding. one hand i played against him he made an incredibly conservative (bad) laydown in my opinion.

3 handed blinds 1000/2000 he raises too 6000 (stack approx. 50k) from the button, SB folds i call in the BB (stack70/80K) with J7 diamonds.

flop Ad2d2h

i check, he bets 7000. i just called as i want to see what transpired on the turn if he bet i'd surrender and give him credit for the A if not i was going to bet the river.

turn 10h

check check

river Ah

i bet 14000 and he starts showing his friend sitting near the table his 1010 as he folds cursing the sick river card.

lol lucky for me it wasn't the xd. but i think i played this hand to weakly for him not to call with 1010. my bet stinks of a bluff, paul you were saying later that you were sure i had nothing. i played the hand pretty bad really. i think it was a hand earlier in the night when i'd been hesitant with KJ on KK board that bought me the respect for this steal and others against villian at the final table and showing that JJ early on bought it for you. even still i don't know how he folded either of the hands, previous actions make HUGE differences to future results for this guy. you played the final table very well last night you never looked in any fear of not making it to heads-up. i was very surprised when i saw you guys do a deal. i think you had a signifigant edge on that guy. i guess it was late, had you just had enough at that stage?

BuChan

sikes wrote:

why would you check the flop and then raise the turn? That really makes no sense to me.

raising a flush draw on the turn is a little more deceptive than raising the flop sometimes, no? i do this sometimes too, mostly in cash games. it's pretty strong checking or flat calling the flop and raising the turn against the preflop raiser. if a good player takes this line against me i'm fearful of a set, AA, KK. but in this hand i don't think you could have a set since you would raise with any PP in the BB against the SB 3 handed. obviously you didn't think he had hit the flop as hard as he had and thought you had FE against a bluff, small PP or an A6 A8 or some other such hand which villian would bet with here. miracoulsly you got him off a monster!

eggie

BuChan wrote:

i defended my blinds with a lot of trash hands against him quite a few times at the final table by just flat calling and bluffing the flop or turn. he showed good aggression preflop but his flop play was a bit weak, he'd cbet the flop and shut down on the turn without a decent holding. one hand i played against him he made an incredibly conservative (bad) laydown in my opinion.

3 handed blinds 1000/2000 he raises too 6000 (stack approx. 50k) from the button, SB folds i call in the BB (stack70/80K) with J7 diamonds.

flop Ad2d2h

i check, he bets 7000. i just called as i want to see what transpired on the turn if he bet i'd surrender and give him credit for the A if not i was going to bet the river.



turn 10h

check check

river Ah

i bet 14000 and he starts showing his friend sitting near the table his 1010 as he folds cursing the sick river card.

lol lucky for me it wasn't the xd. but i think i played this hand to weakly for him not to call with 1010. my bet stinks of a bluff, paul you were saying later that you were sure i had nothing. i played the hand pretty bad really. i think it was a hand earlier in the night when i'd been hesitant with KJ on KK board that bought me the respect for this steal and others against villian at the final table and showing that JJ early on bought it for you. even still i don't know how he folded either of the hands, previous actions make HUGE differences to future results for this guy. you played the final table very well last night you never looked in any fear of not making it to heads-up. i was very surprised when i saw you guys do a deal. i think you had a signifigant edge on that guy. i guess it was late, had you just had enough at that stage?

I agree i would prob be fav to take this down heads up against this guy but the prize money between 1st and 2nd was pretty marginal, i was happy enough with the ticket as a payment for the extra chips held.

When i said to you on the break i was pretty sure you had nothing i did mean it, and if it was me i would have pushed over your bet on the river with any 2 cards. I had a feeling early on at the final table that this guy had monsters under the bed syndrome. He folded too many hands worth a showdown against players who are willing to make plays, especially where he bet and should have check called. This was my reason for pressurising him in a heads up flop.

However, I had no idea he hit two pair on this flop, but i did think he would certainly lay down A T to a re raise.

Sikes: the reason i checked the flop and re reaised the turn was to induce him to think i hit a monster on the flop and slowplayed to extract extra chips OR that i filled a gutshot on the turn. If he has a good hand here i still have at least 9 outs and i have him covered so i'm not going anywhere.

If i lose i re-adapt my play accordingly with respect to my stack and position.

This an ok strategy this deep at this stage of the tourney considering the prizes on offer?

eggie

double post

phantom_lord

eggie wrote:

Sikes: the reason i checked the flop and re reaised the turn was to induce him to think i hit a monster on the flop and slowplayed to extract extra chips

nobody would ever check behind with anything decent on that board. checking to extract chips??

eggie

phantom_lord wrote:

nobody would ever check behind with anything decent on that board. checking to extract chips??

Why not? they will miss more flops than they hit and even if they do hit marginally you can can still steal it from certain players. I think you may be looking at this from a cash game perspective, its not the same. By checking i get him to bet some made hands and draws which i can take it away from him with a raise. From my table image I am representing either a complete or semi bluff or a monster.


We are basically playing for 600 euro in this pot, the difference between 2nd and 3rd, from his perspective if he loses he is third if i lose i still have a chance to gain better than 3rd.