High Profitable Business -> Risk Insurance

forex

Hi,

Do you know any insurance company in Ireland who would provide risks insurance during trading at forex (currency speculations). I found about 490 insurance companies, tried to contact some of them, but it will take weeks for me to investigate all of them. The problem is that I can generate about 10% of Tax Free Profit a month (currency betting is tax free in Ireland), but I’d like to cover risks related to high profits and make this business more attractive to customers.

Thanking you in advance,
Dmitri

antoinolachtnai

Can you spell out exactly what risk are you trying to insure?

forex

Thank you for asking, let me explain from the beginning.

Forex, currency trading, currency speculations, currency betting are all the same. In Ireland there is only one company which provide this services, this is DeltaIndex www.deltaindex.ie, but I don’t work through them because they don’t support automated trading using MetaTrader.

FOREX (FOReign EXchange market) is an international foreign exchange market, where money is sold and bought freely.
It is also the biggest liquid financial market. According to various assessments, money masses in the market constitute from 1 to 2 trillion US dollars a day.

Unlike other financial markets, the Forex market has no physical location and no central exchange. It operates through a global network of banks, corporations and individuals trading one currency for another. The superior liquidity allows the traders to open and/or close positions within a few seconds. The lack of a physical exchange enables the Forex market to operate on a 24-hour basis, spanning from one zone to another in all the major financial centers. The largest part of the largest financial market in the world consists of 95% speculation. The main advantageous of Forex is High Profitableness.

Participants of this market are: large commercial banks, which the basic operations under the instruction of exporters and importers are carried out through, investment institutes, insurance and pension funds and private investors. Also these banks carry out operations and in the interests due to own means, thus volumes of daily operations at large banks reach for billions of dollars. Some banks make the basic part of the profit formed only due to speculative currency operations.

The main merits of the FOREX market are:
• The biggest number of participants and the largest volumes of transactions;
• Superior liquidity and speed of the market: transactions are conducted within a few seconds according to online quotes;
• The market works 24 hours a day, every working days;
• A trader can open a position for any period of time he wants;
• No fees, except for the difference between buying and selling prices;
• An opportunity to get a bigger profit that the invested sum;
• Qualified work in the FOREX market can become your main professional activity;
• You can make deals any time you like.

Additional information about Forex:
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/forex-education/what-is-forex-trading.html
[url] http://www.pro-forex.com/en/forex.php[/url]
[url] http://www.northfinance.com/eng/forex/participants-of-forex/[/url]
[url] http://www.moneyforex.com/about-forex.php[/url]

=============================================

Talking about currency trading we buy currency when the price is lowest and sell currency when the price is highest. At the chart bellow you can determine the best buy/sell points.

Lose risk appears when we open position, but price went into wrong direction, so we have loses. It is impossible to win all the time and the main purpose is to have amount of wins more than amount of loses. Please see bellow chart of trading results for the last 4 months.

As you can see there are loses and wins, but amount of wins is over amount of loses.

My understanding is that insurance case should appear at the moment when amount of loses reached some percentage from deposit, e.g. 30%-50%, depending on trading strategy used and agreement between trader and insurance company. At the chart above Maximal Drawdown: 3.17% - so during last 4 months trading, there was no insurance case. Detailed trading report you can see here.

Talking about forex 10% profit a month is a not very big profitability, my goal is to reach 50%. I trade 24 hours a day 5 days a week automatically, simply saying I made a program/algorithm (which is called “expert”) which trades on my behalf (sells and buys currencies when trading conditions are met). Metatrader trading terminal allows us to develop such program and mathematically estimate all possible risks and allows us to see real-time trading. E.g. I can mathematically prove you that I can generate about 1.6% profit a month (20% a year) with no risk and I am sure that all insurance company estimates their risks based on statistics and simple mathematics (actually I have degree in mathematics, economics and programming). Follow this link to get read-only access to my virtual trading account (Detailed trading report was generated by this program (MetaTrader) ). Extract ZIP archive and run file: terminal.exe . It may prompt you for login details, which are bellow.
Login : 1358412
Investor : vce3wwd (read only password)
Server : InterbankFX-Demo Accounts

I hope I described all aspects in details, please fill free to ask any questions.

Regards,
Dmitri

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Is a stop-loss what you're looking for?

I can't see any insurance company in their right mind insuring a forex trader!

antoinolachtnai

So you are saying that

1. you claim you have an algorithm that can predict the direction of the forex markets

2. you want someone to give you insurance in case your algorithm fails to work.

You are saying you can generate a 1.6 percent profit/month without any risk whatsoever. Why don't you just save up 50 grand and get a margin account. Then you can leverage up to EUR 1 million, and generate an income of 16,000 a month for yourself. Why do you need insurance, customers or anyone else?

What makes you think that your method will keep working, i.e., why the future will be like the past? This is what the insurance company would need to know. (You would need to have a fundamental insight here that no one else has had yet.)

forex

sean_keevey wrote:

Is a stop-loss what you're looking for?

I can't see any insurance company in their right mind insuring a forex trader!

Yes, we can say like that, but only if this "stop-loss" is greater than agreed percentage from deposite.
Thank you

fintan

First of all this all sounds like your trying to drum some business for whatever it is your selling

Secondly no insurance company would touch this with a barge pole

Thirdly, nobody can truly predict the market, if they could they wouldn't be asking about insurance on discussion forums they would be counting their billions on a nice sunny island somewhere.

Fourthly, by asking about insurance you have shown that you know very little about currency trading.

Fifthly, you say there are no fees, that's pure bullsh1t, if there are truly no fees the bid-ask spread will be so wide it wouldn't be worth your while.

and finally, what you need to do is take out currency options to hedge your down size risk. However, cost of premium will probably eat heavily into any potential profits.

Just in case I didn't make myself clear, nobody should give this guy a second look, he is just a spammer and should be banned.

forex

antoinolachtnai wrote:

So you are saying that
1. you claim you have an algorithm that can predict the direction of the forex markets
2. you want someone to give you insurance in case your algorithm fails to work.

1) There are many factors which effect on currencies rates, these are political news, wars, weather, speculations of big banks and so on …. There are many thousands of individuals and banks who are successful on this market. Saying, "yes" will not be wrong, because forex market is not a complete chaos, in most cases its movement follows the rules which makes it predictable, but prediction is not enough to be successful. Money management is the most important thing in this game (if you want I can reveal the subject of money management).
2) It will not fail. This would be very good for customers to know that they are secured.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

You are saying you can generate a 1.6 percent profit/month without any risk whatsoever. Why don't you just save up 50 grand and get a margin account. Then you can leverage up to EUR 1 million, and generate an income of 16,000 a month for yourself. Why do you need insurance, customers or anyone else?

All percentages, including 1.6% a month, was given taking into account margin 1:100, some brokers provide 1:400 margin, but the higher margin the higher risks – this is why I avoid big margins. So having, 50K account will make you only about 0.8K per month. Having 10% per month is a good enough, but again this is about 5K per month. I personally don’t need any insurance and I would not need any customers if I reach higher profitability.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

What makes you think that your method will keep working, i.e., why the future will be like the past? This is what the insurance company would need to know. (You would need to have a fundamental insight here that no one else has had yet.)

The main advantageous of automated trading is that you can run it on historical data several years back. Historical result and current results are as good as historical. Please understand I did not make up something new – all approaches, I use, exists in the world for many years, widely used in different variations and freely available via internet

forex

First of all thank you for your opinion about insurance company. I though this is a professional forum where I can get an advice. Answer is “I don’t know such company” or “there is no such company” would be enough right after I asked my question for the first time. In this case I would not spend my time trying to explain all these things.

fintan wrote:

Fourthly, by asking about insurance you have shown that you know very little about currency trading.

What I only know is when to sell/buy and close positions to make profit. I heard about hedge funds, but I never get a chance to find out all details. I don’t really want to spend time on this, but if you want I can prove you my skills and you prove your knowledge (please advice what is required for you). I claim that I can make up to 10% a month, what you can provide to prove your skills?
I asked this question, because I found a company who provide 100% insurance for their customers, personally I think they are cheaters, just because they did not reply on my request about insurance company name and I decided to find out confirmation of this between professionals. Source of information: http://www.bestinvestclub-ltd.com/
Use http://babelfish.altavista.com to translate this site from Russian Or translate only first phrase on the front page.

fintan wrote:

Thirdly, nobody can truly predict the market, if they could they wouldn't be asking about insurance on discussion forums they would be counting their billions on a nice sunny island somewhere.

These people are called market-makers, but they don’t predict – they make this market!
You don’t understand – if I could predict 100% cases, I would not talk about 10% and I would not ask you any questions at all.

fintan wrote:

Fifthly, you say there are no fees, that's pure bullsh1t, if there are truly no fees the bid-ask spread will be so wide it wouldn't be worth your while.

I am sorry, but you are missing the point, I said that currency betting in Ireland is tax free, I mean Free from Capital Gains Tax. I did not mention anything about “no fees”! RainAir says “There is no such thing like free lunch, so we don’t provide it….” and I completely agreed with them.
There are2 types of brokers: the one who provide small spreads, like 1,2 pips, but take commission of 1pips, and the one who provide fixed spread like 3-4pisp for EURUSD. Both of these spreads are not so wide as you are talking about, they get wide only during news times and may go up to 8pips. Please open ANY spread betting company or even http://www.deltaindex.ie and you’ll see that they have spread for major pairs no more than 4 pips. Please provide me ANY forex company which provides spread size over 5 for EURUSD pair. I doubt that you find any …

Dear Fintan, thank you for your opinion about Insurance company and believe me nobody is trying to drag anyone into any businesses, especially you. I just asking opinion of real professionals. If you have nothing else to say regarding insurance company, please don’t mess with this thread.

antoinolachtnai

forex wrote:

1)
All percentages, including 1.6% a month, was given taking into account margin 1:100, some brokers provide 1:400 margin, but the higher margin the higher risks – this is why I avoid big margins. So having, 50K account will make you only about 0.8K per month. Having 10% per month is a good enough, but again this is about 5K per month. I personally don’t need any insurance and I would not need any customers if I reach higher profitability.

So your actual return on 100 euros staked is actually only 0.016 percent/month, which is about half the risk free rate of return. The only way you get the higher return is by borrowing, and the risk goes up proportionately.

I'm not knocking 0.016 by the way. 0.016 is good in forex.

The main advantageous of automated trading is that you can run it on historical data several years back. Historical result and current results are as good as historical. Please understand I did not make up something new – all approaches, I use, exists in the world for many years, widely used in different variations and freely available via internet

What makes you so sure the future will be like the past? This isn't risk, this is uncertainty. Insurance companies don't really deal in uncertainty I'm afraid.

You do get insurance company guaranteeing financial risks like loans, but that's a different sort of deal.

I don't think you will get anyone to insure you on this. You might find someone who thinks it's worth a punt for a few hundred thousand though.

It does sound suspiciously like you're trying to hock something.

I admire what you've done, but I am a little concerned that you don't fully understand the degree to which gearing exposes you. Have you read about Long Term Capital Management (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management , although it is worth getting the book by Lowenstein).

Best of luck with it.

fintan

forex wrote:

I am sorry, but you are missing the point, I said that currency betting in Ireland is tax free, I mean Free from Capital Gains Tax. I did not mention anything about “no fees”! RainAir says “There is no such thing like free lunch, so we don’t provide it….” and I completely agreed with them.
There are2 types of brokers: the one who provide small spreads, like 1,2 pips, but take commission of 1pips, and the one who provide fixed spread like 3-4pisp for EURUSD. Bo

At least keep your story straight, please see bullet number 5 from your second post.

forex wrote:

The main merits of the FOREX market are:
• The biggest number of participants and the largest volumes of transactions;
• Superior liquidity and speed of the market: transactions are conducted within a few seconds according to online quotes;
• The market works 24 hours a day, every working days;
• A trader can open a position for any period of time he wants;
• No fees, except for the difference between buying and selling prices;
• An opportunity to get a bigger profit that the invested sum;
• Qualified work in the FOREX market can become your main professional activity;
• You can make deals any time you like.

You ask me what can I provide to prove my skills, my skills are that I have worked in a trading room and know that your talking out of your arse, you are slowly building this up into some sort of sales pitch for something.

Plus, if you really knew anything, you would know that you could partially hedge your risks by using various forms of options.

People should read this advisory from the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission
http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf98/opaforexa15.htm

Or to summarise:

What the Ads May Promise:

*
You won’t find an easier, more tested and flexible way to put dollars in your portfolio.
*
You can make profits with as little as $300.
*
You trade without commissions and trading is available 24 hours a day, six days a week.
*
The FOREX market is the largest financial market in the world and provides more opportunities than you’d ever get in the stock market.
*
The seminars will prove how easy it is to make money from currency trading.

What They Don’t Tell You:

*
The software being promoted looks at past performance to identify trends in currency trading. It uses these trends to predict the currency’s value in the future. As helpful as the software seems, it cannot accurately predict market fluctuations, nor can profits be guaranteed
*
While there may be no commissions, the promoters make money from the sale of the software and on the “spread” between the buy and sell quotes made on each purchase and sale.
*
Individuals who attend free demonstrations may experience high-pressure sales tactics and be asked to purchase software programs for thousands of dollars.



The Fine Print

The ASC advises consumers to be aware of the fine print on any offer making extravagant claims about investment returns as the ad may not be telling the whole story. However, the fine print provides a wealth of knowledge about what the software actually delivers:

*
Trading in foreign currencies involves substantial risk.
*
Investors should have the appropriate financial and business experience before investing in the FOREX market.
*
Software is a tool that tracks past performance. It does not replace research or licensed investment advice.
*
Past performance does not ensure future results.
*
No system that analyzes trends in foreign currency is free of risk. The system cannot factor all the variables capable of influencing market fluctuations.

full text here http://www.albertasecurities.com/?currentPage=5376

forex

All,
Looks like thread is going out of its original subject …
It is known to everyone that forex is a high risk market and 97% of all players loses their money. If you decide to invest to it, you might be an idiot OR you MUST be VERY WELL aware of forex trading and trading strategy used. You all are not such kinds of people.

Fintan, you are mistaken, because:
1) This is not an add. I just typed in google “what is forex” and included into post some information about it. I copied and past text from the links provided. You can check those links. Sorry, I should read it more carefully before I publish it, I just did not want to spend my time explaining what is this forex and how it works. I honestly missed 300$ this really looks as add. I think this is a minimum limit for broker, but I am not interested in this money.

fintan wrote:

At least keep your story straight, please see bullet number 5 from your second post.
No fees, except for the difference between buying and selling prices

Fintan, you start to behave like a PROVOCATEUR. Personally for you as a professional who worked on reception in some company, but never trade currencies themselves, I’ll explain that difference between buy and sell price called “spread”. This spread is a price for trading operations in forex. In some cases they take extra fee called commission, which are 1-2 pips. Also there is a such thing like “swap”.

fintan wrote:

You ask me what can I provide to prove my skills, my skills are that I have worked in a trading room and know that your talking out of your arse, you are slowly building this up into some sort of sales pitch for something.

Fintan, the fact that you worked in some “trading room”, does not make any difference and there is nothing to be proud of. If you would work there and if would be a successful trader, you would not spend your this Bank Holiday weekend chatting in this forum, I believe you that you worked there, but I am not sure what position you had there. Sounds like you were loser this is why you had to leave …

fintan wrote:

Plus, if you really knew anything, you would know that you could partially hedge your risks by using various forms of options.

I am sorry, but you’ve been very rude to me, you made me be the same:
I call you an idiot and PROVOCATEUR, because you don’t know difference between option trading and currency trading – these are basis of these markets. Talk to those guys who still works in the company you mentioned above, I hope they’ll explain you difference … And in addition, if you ever trade currencies by yourself, trading statement which I provided above, would make a sense for you, but you are not a trader, so please stay away and don’t do bool5hiting.

I am sorry that I messed up this question, by stupid coping text from the internet …

Fintan, if you are a real guy and still want to prove something, lets make a deal, open up a virtual (no real money required) 1000$ account at InterbankFX and I’ll increase it in 30 days. If in 30 days you’ll have less than initial deposit, I’ll give you 1000$ of real money, if you have over 1000$, you’ll transfer this 1000$ to charity which I choose. We’ll make this results public in Real Time! Only after that you can have my respect to you and get back respect of others.

InterbankFX is registered in NFA

Is thee anyone who knows about legal thing during this betting? I mean, I want to make sure that Fintan will not cheat and make this payment.

martin84

This should be closed. This Forex crap is all over the web. Spam!!!

fintan

forex wrote:

All,


Fintan, if you are a real guy and still want to prove something, lets make a deal, open up a virtual (no real money required) 1000$ account at InterbankFX and I’ll increase it in 30 days. If in 30 days you’ll have less than initial deposit, I’ll give you 1000$ of real money, if you have over 1000$, you’ll transfer this 1000$ to charity which I choose. We’ll make this results public in Real Time! Only after that you can have my respect to you and get back respect of others.

InterbankFX is registered in NFA



Is thee anyone who knows about legal thing during this betting? I mean, I want to make sure that Fintan will not cheat and make this payment.

Your a funny guy forex, you claim to have a system that guarantees profits trading FX, yet you hurl insults at me? Im going to ignore the rest of your nonsense post, its easy to throw insults at somebody you do not know from the comfort of your computer.

Why don't you take your own money, trade it and make your self lots of money? If your system is so fool proof, why waste your time trading pretend money?

forex wrote:

I call you an idiot and PROVOCATEUR, because you don’t know difference between option trading and currency trading – these are basis of these markets.

Funniest thing I have read in a long time, you do know you can buy currency options to hedge your FX risk don't you? If not I'd recommend you go spend your hard earned $1,000 on some books and doing some reading on the subject.

forex

Fintan, unfortunately you are not mature enough to be responsible for your words. This is why you choose to ignore my deal …

Insurance question is over, I received confirmation from several big insurance companies. Thank you all for participation.