National MMA Rankings

Colm_OReilly · 30-05-2007 10:20am #1

Hey,

This thread is to start a discussion on the rules for deciding an Irish MMA fighter ranking system. Feel free to post what criteria should be counted no matter who you are - competitor, coach, spectactor, etc - but I'd really love to hear from the promoters and top level coaches on this one.

A few starter questions:

Should we only include active fighters?
What is the cut off for active versus inactive fighters? 6 months, 1 year, etc
Should we include those who compete abroad?
Should we include wins in the semi pro series?
Who should be the ultimate authority on this ranking (i.e. the guy who has to make the call if there's a dispute)?
If a fighter is injured but not retired, should their ranking drop?

I think the benefits to having an agreed ranking system are numerous. It helps further push MMA as a sport and also breeds a level of accountability and healthy competition.

Colm

Colm_OReilly · 30-05-2007 10:25am

My thoughts on the questions:

1. Yes
2. 1 year
3. Yes, as long as they're competing at home. If an Irish guy moves to the states to compete he won't be in the Irish rankings, but if a guy fights in UK/Europe/the States and also on home shows he should be ranked and his fights abroad count.
4. Yes, I think once you're fighting on a show as opposed to the Amateur League you should be ranked. Obviously, if you're only fighting at semi pro you're lower ranked than fully pro
5. If they were willing, Dave Jones or Mark Leonard would be the adjudicator in any disputes about this. Failing that, Clive. He's a bad man, but a surprisingly honest bad man.

6. Yes, they're inactive during that period and other fighters are competing.

mark.leonard · 30-05-2007 10:35am

1. Yes
2. I agree with Colm, 1 year
3. Definitely, most Irish fighters looking to advance will be fighting abroad. Doesn't make them any less Irish!
4. Don't include Semi pro matches, once someone fights pro ruoles, they get a spot in the rankings, even if its a low one
5. I would be willing but I would prefer to see promoters having inout to the final say as they can alwasy just fight off the guys we are disputing!
6. Yes.

JohnMc1 · 30-05-2007 10:46am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

My thoughts on the questions:

Obviously, if you're only fighting at semi pro you're lower ranked than fully pro

I agree with everything you said except this point. I think it would be better for semi-pros to have a seperate ranking from the pros. You could have a semi-pro fighter that is better than the pros but because he is still semi so he has to be ranked lower would be unfair.

yomchi · 30-05-2007 10:55am

What distinguishes between a semi-pro and a pro? Is it like class A,B,C in Thai?

Mark Hamill · 30-05-2007 11:01am

JohnMc1 wrote:

I agree with everything you said except this point. I think it would be better for semi-pros to have a seperate ranking from the pros. You could have a semi-pro fighter that is better than the pros but because he is still semi so he has to be ranked lower would be unfair.

I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but if s/he is better than the pro's, shouldn't s/he fight pro?

mark.leonard · 30-05-2007 11:05am

Jon wrote:

What distinguishes between a semi-pro and a pro? Is it like class A,B,C in Thai?

Amateur - no strikes to the head
Semi-pro - head shots allowed standing, no strikes to the head on the ground only
Pro - head shots allowed standing and on the ground

there are other variations like some semi pro shows require shin pads etc but the broad strokes are as above

UFR Management · 30-05-2007 11:06am

i would agree with Mark Leonard on this.

JohnMc1 · 30-05-2007 12:39pm

Mark Hamill wrote:

I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but if s/he is better than the pro's, shouldn't s/he fight pro?

True but not every fighter wants to be a pro for whatever reason/s.

Roper · 30-05-2007 12:57pm

JohnMc1 wrote:

True but not every fighter wants to be a pro for whatever reason/s.

So don't fight pro and don't get ranked. However, I think semi-pros should be ranked as it gives an incentive to take that step up and climb the rankings. Mind you, pro should really be the benchmark.

1. Yes, with a pre-defined period of inactivity dropping you off the list
2. I'd say a year as most fighters are part time, work commitments/injury might keep them inactive for 6 months quite easily but a year would be a good stretch.
3. A domestic ratings system should measure domestic matches. However if someone has a result over a ranked or high level fighter from another country that should be considered.
4. Yes, at a low level. 1 pro win should elevate you above 5 semi-pro wins. I think this would give guys on the semi-pro ladder something to aim for
5. Me, or God... no, me.
6. Yes, AFAIK in boxing circles injury is counted as inactivity. If an injury keeps you inactive for the period set in point 2. then you drop off.

yomchi · 30-05-2007 12:59pm

mark.leonard wrote:

Amateur - no strikes to the head
Semi-pro - head shots allowed standing, no strikes to the head on the ground only
Pro - head shots allowed standing and on the ground

there are other variations like some semi pro shows require shin pads etc but the broad strokes are as above

Thanks Mark!

dlofnep · 30-05-2007 1:05pm

I don't see a need for rankings. there will always be someone disputing something. Let records speak for themselves..

mark.leonard · 30-05-2007 1:23pm

dlofnep wrote:

I don't see a need for rankings. there will always be someone disputing something. Let records speak for themselves..

The rankings should be an extension of the records, as in nobody will be ranked above anyone who has beaten them for the most part. Rankings allow promoters to match fighters easier, and give fighters a clear picture of who they must beat to move up. You don't get that from a listing of fighter' records.

dlofnep · 30-05-2007 2:56pm

I think to do it fairly, you'd need to script it.

Let's say.

If fighter1 beats fighter2 whos ranked 9th, he gets 2 points.. if he beats someone in the top 5 he might get 5 or 6 points.. If he beats one of the top 2 guys - he gets 9 or 10 points - maybe more...

You'd also have to write an algorithm for if he loses to someone. Like, losing to a top 5 guy shouldn't deduct too many marks but if he loses to a lower guy, then he would be deducted alot of marks.

I think you'd have to have specific points.

1st = 15 points
2nd = 12 points
3rd = 10 points
4th/5th = 8 points
5-10 = 5-7 points
10-15
15-20
etc..

As there arent a WHOLE lotta guys in ireland fighting on the pro circuit, it might be easy enough to manage. But this way, if you write a script, it's taken out of the hands of people - so nobody can complain.

RealJohn · 30-05-2007 5:14pm

Basically I'd agree with all that's been said but I think semi-pro should be counted in the rankings in theory. Like has been suggested already, the semi-pro records would carry considerably less weight than pro records and as a result, a person fighting exclusively at semi-pro or primarily at semi-pro is unlikely to feature higher than a pro-fighter.

For example, in the weight divisions where there are a lot of active pro-fighters, semi-pro fighters might not feature at all but in a division where there are only a handful of guys fighting pro, I don't see the point of having guys who might have a pro-record of say two losses and no wins ranking ahead of someone who might have four or five semi-pro wins.

The Shane · 30-05-2007 8:26pm

Surely sexiness should count and in the event of a tie settle the dispute.

I like the idea. I think in terms of this "irish" should refer to anyone fighting mostly on the Irish circuit and training out of an Irish (in the traditional sense) gym. International fights would then contribute to rank (otherwise you move the very top irish guys out of the rankings for being too good). For instance Greg Loughran has taken a lot of international fights with more to come I would imagine but should still, as long as he is training in Ireland, be considered for the ranking.

Irish (in the traditional sense) fighters living/training abroad should then be removed from the Irish rankings eg. McVeigh.

How would you work with fighters with exclusivity contracts with cage rage/ufc?

Shane, The

BrianKirwan · 31-05-2007 10:29pm

1. yes, thas a given
2. 1 year, too easy to be inactive for 6 through injury etc
3. yes if they still fight in irish shows also (use 1 year inactivity in irish shows rule)
4. there should absolutely be a separate semi pro ranking, once a fighter turns pro, they are removed from semi pro rankings. pro fighters who fight semi pro fights would be rewarded less points in pro rankings.
5. theres a few that would be suitable, Mark, Davey P, john, roper etc, whoever says yes.
6. if they are injured they don't fight so they don't gain points, its up to other fighters to climb above them in this time. no points being deducted while injured, unless 1 year inactivity rule kicks in.

ShaneT · 31-05-2007 10:51pm

MMA Universe have a decent ranking system. It's 100% statistical and removes the possibility for "bias". Since we all run schools, events, gyms (sometimes all three!) it would need to be purely statistical.

Here's the MMA Universe method;

MMA Universe wrote:

How does the MMAU Fighter Rating System work?

The MMAUniverse.com Fighter Rating System has been created by MMA Universe and is a completely unique and revolutionary way of judging which fighters have statistically the best Fight Records.

Our unique system takes into account ALL of the fights each fighter has had - not just the number of wins. This system was created and developed by MMA Universe - so don't accept inferior imitations!

Here is the how the MMAUniverse.com Fighter Rating System works:

1. Each fighter is awarded the following points for each type of win:

Professional MMA: 12 points

Japanese Hybrid MMA: 10 points

Semi-Professional MMA: 8 points

Amateur MMA: 2 points

K-1: 0 points

2. Each fighter is awarded the following points for each type of loss:

Professional MMA: -6 points

Japanese Hybrid MMA: -5 points

Semi-Professional MMA: -4 points

Amateur MMA: -1 points

K-1: 0 points

3. Each fighter is awarded the following points for each type of draw:

Professional MMA: 6 points

Japanese Hybrid MMA: 5 points

Semi-Professional MMA: 4 points

Amateur MMA: 1 points

K-1: 0 points

4. Each fighter is awarded 0 points for a No Contest

5. Then the total is calculated: All of the wins & draws minus the losses = MMAU Fighter Score

6. Once the fighters MMAU Fighter Score has been established he is then given a rating compared to ALL of the other fighters contained within the MMAUniverse.com website - and that is the fighters MMAU Rating.

This unique system, although very simple, gives the most accurate comparison of fighter's Fight Records available. This system is much more accurate than previous scoring systems used elsewhere! Just having the highest number of fights doesn't necessarily give you the best record - it's the cross comparison of data that makes this the most accurate Fighter Rating System in the World!

Take a look at the scores for yourself and you will see just how effective this unique system is! Although the system is not designed to be an indication of who are the World's greatest or most dominant fighters, what you will see with our system is which fighters STATISTICALLY have the best Fight Records in the World, taking into account all available data. We're confident that you'll agree that this is a great and extremely accurate system. Enjoy!

Need to change a few bits 'n bobs - but could be made to work. Anything else would just be opinion. This is purely stats based. Since MMA universe already have the database; you'd only need to update the records and list the Irish Top 10 based on the MMAU score. Job done. You wouldn't even need to bother with weight etc. Just the top 10 scorers.

Example;

Greg Loughran's current MMAU Score is: 102
http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS5186

Steve Lynch's current MMA Score is: 48
http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS23135

Mark O'Toole's current MMAU Score is: 36
http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS17699

Owen Roddy's current MMAU Score is: 18
http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS23135

Tim Murphy's Current MMAU Score is: 0
http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS11394

Personally, I'd prefer to see pro and semi pro fighters ranked seperately; but that's just me.

weemate · 01-06-2007 7:13am

Maybe we could begin by having all the coaches compile a list of active fighters theyhave at their gym [ both pro and semi pro ] and take it from there.It might also prove to be a big help to promoters to have such a list?

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 8:02am

I don't think the MMA Universe system is needed at the moment, under that system, you would be ranked higher than someone that beat you if you lost two more pro fights after losing to him and he didn't fight! I like being able to keep people under those that have beaten them and vice versa that we get from a human listing. Still just my opinion

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 8:59am

I see what your saying Mark. But, having someone beat you doesn't automatically mean they outrank you.

How about this;

Points sytem for a running record.

Then, yourself, davey and JK are polled each quarter to "rank" 20 figthers (selected based on record/points).

You then rank them 20 down to 1. We count up the scores (ie. 20+9+19) and the Top 10 is posted Monthly.

You guys are the natural choice; since you run the events. However, you also run gyms. So, we could add two "independents". So, each fighter would have five opporunities to get points.

I don't mind collating the data - it's the kind of thing I do all day anyway. Also, people's records would need to be "public and verifiable" - so the MMAU database would be a perfect starting point with coaches responsible for ensuring that fighters records are accurately represented.

mark.leonard wrote:

I don't think the MMA Universe system is needed at the moment, under that system, you would be ranked higher than someone that beat you if you lost two more pro fights after losing to him and he didn't fight! I like being able to keep people under those that have beaten them and vice versa that we get from a human listing. Still just my opinion

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 9:53am

I think that as we all run independent clubs we will cancel out whatever bias we each may have. This kind of thing will be included in an initiative myself, John and Davy are already working on, details to follow as we finalize them. I don't think we need a statistical analysis of the fighters at the moment as the numbers are reasonably small, maybe later when there are more and more fighters we can call on your statistical expertise, but for now we will be fine as is.

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 9:54am

mark.leonard wrote:

I think that as we all run independent clubs we will cancel out whatever bias we each may have. This kind of thing will be included in an initiative myself, John and Davy are already working on, details to follow as we finalize them. I don't think we need a statistical analysis of the fighters at the moment as the numbers are reasonably small, maybe later when there are more and more fighters we can call on your statistical expertise, but for now we will be fine as is.

LOL.

Roper · 01-06-2007 9:58am

I don't think statistical analysis is the way to go. Simply put, the points awarded fail to take into account the quality of the opponent, any period of activity/inactivity etc. A reasonable panel of judges would seem like the way to go. I'm not 100% sure they should be the coaches though who may inadvertantly exhibit some degree of bias.

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 10:05am

Roper wrote:

A reasonable panel of judges would seem like the way to go. I'm not 100% sure they should be the coaches though who may inadvertantly exhibit some degree of bias.

Spot on. Hence the need for both. I mean, who get's to decide "quality opponents"? Bottom line; there's no MMA governing body in Ireland. Any ranking is unofficial hearsay/opinion. It's not different to three lads sitting over a table and saying "I think bob is best". Fair enough I suppose.

That said, with 25000 people in the database and 27 fighters (so far) that I've dug up in Ireland, not sure we need rankings at all. :-)

StrateBlastJim · 01-06-2007 10:24am

there you go shane

30 John Walsh http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS11392
30 Michael Leonard http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS10997

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 10:25am

StrateBlastJim wrote:

there you go shane

30 John Walsh http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS11392
30 Michael Leonard http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS10997

Cheers! I've added them to the list on the MMA forum. Much appreciated. Some point next week I'll break the list into "Active" (fought in the within 6 months) and "Overall" (All time record/standing).

Link to MMAU Rankings (North and Republic): Click Here

Incidentally, MMAU Already rank the fighters. But, the boys from up north show as GB not IRL.

Here's the ranking for IRL: MMAU

Colm_OReilly · 01-06-2007 11:04am

Wow! look what's happened here. I can't leave this forum for a second can I?

Anyway, the reason I feel semi pro should be included is you're fighting in front of a crowd on a show, also you really only move through semi pro on your way to tougher matches or (in the case of Kevin McAlonan in the next SPS) fight to stay fresh.

Why I think John and Davy shouldn't be the adjudicators is because they're promoters. Granted we're a friendly bunch now but for an outsider to see that the promoters deciding the ranks over an "independent" wouldn't look so good. Hence Roper, Mark or Clive.

As for statistical systems, I looked into them in other sports. Rugby has the most accurate system in sport today but it's designed for team sports and points wins. I think job's is a little simplistic but it's good enough.

The MMAU is pants. How in the blue hell can Roddy be ranked so low when he's kicking ass and taking names at the moment? I agree that Greg is the top LW but he's actively fighting and beating top Irish guys.

Colm
-Decisions need to be made

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 11:45am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

The MMAU is pants. How in the blue hell can Roddy be ranked so low when he's kicking ass and taking names at the moment? I agree that Greg is the top LW but he's actively fighting and beating top Irish guys.

Colm
-Decisions need to be made

Oddly enough; I agree with everything you've said (don't really see Mark as independent though). As for Roddy's rank - you're spot on. He's doing great at the moment.

So, there's a Rank based on "Career to Date" (and that's his Rank There) and maybe a rank based on "Trend of Last 4 fights". Which brings us full circle;

ShaneT wrote:

Points sytem for a running record.

Then... "persons X,Y,Z"... are polled each quarter to "rank" 20 figthers (selected based on record/points).

...rank them 20 down to 1. We count up the scores (ie. 20+9+19) and the Top 10 is posted.

Not rocket science really.

As for the "pants" point system; it's simple - some records are not uptodate and some of the fights are misrepresented (either by accident or deliberately) (SP showing as pro etc). What ever happens, records have to be taken into account and they should be public and verifiable. It shouldn't be a "we made our own special one just for us lads here in Ireland" type thing if we want it to hold some semblance of validity.

I've been meaning to do it in the forum (independently) anyway. So, I'll probably just run with it. Like it or not - public records speak for themselves.

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 12:27pm

Being a fighter and coach you are hardly independent yourself though I appreciate the dig in passing, that makes two in this thread alone

I know, I know "data doesn't lie", but given that on the original rankings thread I only ever used Data for any changes I made to the listings I don't see where you get off calling me biased.

The rankings I envisioned are meant to be used by Irish promoters to help them make fair match-ups and for Irish fighters to see who they have to go through to get to a title shot, I don't think we will be sending them to the Nevada State Athletic Commission anytime soon.

It seems like you came on this thread, saw something that would help you get more hits on your site and decided to grab it for that reason alone, call me a cynic (as you know doubt will), but that is how it seems to me. Why don't you let the guys who started putting these rankings together continue in that vein, we consider and appreciate all input of course, but not quite so much when the goal of the "input" is to grab something for your own ends.

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 12:33pm

For in intelligent man, you can often behave worryingly like a child with a football.

To be clear; I never questioned your motive. Never made a "dig" and have no itention of "hijacking" anything. I question only your "independence".

As a fighter and coach - you're right have have as much interest and right to opinion as anyone here - you included Mark. The thread was started by Colm and he was looking for opinions.

Colm_OReilly wrote:

This thread is to start a discussion on the rules for deciding an Irish MMA fighter ranking system. Feel free to post what criteria should be counted no matter who you are - competitor, coach, spectactor, etc - but I'd really love to hear from the promoters and top level coaches on this one.

You on the other hand have twice suggested "don't want opinions - I'm working on something so stay out of it". It's getting tiresome. I've nothing against you Mark. Yet almost everytime I voice an opinion you have something negative to say. We have different views. Excellent - that's a good thing - it leads to evolution of the species.

So, instead of the bun fight - how about we focus on the point of the thread; "what's a suitable means of establishing some sort of ranking system?"

Happy days...

mark.leonard wrote:

Being a fighter and coach you are hardly independent yourself though I appreciate the dig in passing, that makes two in this thread alone
I know, I know "data doesn't lie", but given that on the original rankings thread I only ever used Data for any changes I made to the listings I don't see where you get off calling me biased.

The rankings I envisioned are meant to be used by Irish promoters to help them make fair match-ups and for Irish fighters to see who they have to go through to get to a title shot, I don't think we will be sending them to the Nevada State Athletic Commission anytime soon.

It seems like you came on this thread, saw something that would help you get more hits on your site and decided to grab it for that reason alone, call me a cynic (as you know doubt will), but that is how it seems to me. Why don't you let the guys who started putting these rankings together continue in that vein, we consider and appreciate all input of course, but not quite so much when the goal of the "input" is to grab something for your own ends.

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 12:45pm

ShaneT wrote:

For in intelligent man, you can often behave worryingly like a child with a football.

To be clear; I never questioned your motive. Never made a "dig" and have no itention of "hijacking" anything. I question only your "independence".

You on the other hand have twice suggested "don't want opinions - I'm working on something so stay out of it". It's getting tiresome. I've nothing against you Mark. Yet almost everytime I voice an opinion you have something negative to say. We have different views. Excellent - that's a good thing - it leads to evolution of the species.

So, instead of the bun fight - how about we focus on the point of the thread; "what's a suitable means of establishing some sort of ranking system?"

Happy days...

3 Digs

I am not asking you to stay out of it, please do keep voicing your opinions, only stop trying to move it over to MMA Ireland, which seems to be getting more hits than ever by the way so there is no real need to worry! Because you won't get me to believe that when you offered to collate the data you DIDN'T intend to put the resulting rankings there.

Lest we go any further off topic with our argument, I will just finish up by saying I welcome your contributions as much as anyone elses, not necessarily the digs towards me you put with them , but I am big enough to let them go as well. So as you posted above - back on topic

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 1:08pm

Fair enough. But will pick up on one final point concerning website hits.

Since arrival in Ireland, I've taught for free, fought for free, photographed every MMA event in the last 18 months despite the outlay of personal time and finances (many, many hours of effort goes into the photo highlights and I always pay for entry to events that become a "job" to me rather than entertainment). The forum is essentially a repository of free fight highlights. I host forums for other gyms - promoting them - for free. I do this because I enjoy the sport and I enjoy promoting it. I make no money from the site. I do it anyway. I find your suggestion offensive. Plain and simple.

Love and hugs Mark. I'm sure you don't mean things the way they sound. Much like me really.

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 1:11pm

ShaneT wrote:

Fair enough. But will pick up on one final point concerning website hits.

Since arrival in Ireland, I've taught for free, fought for free, photographed every MMA event in the last 18 months despite the outlay of personal time and finances (many, many hours of effort goes into the photo highlights and I always pay for entry to events that become a "job" to me rather than entertainment). The forum is essentially a repository of free fight highlights. I host forums for other gyms - promoting them - for free. I do this because I enjoy the sport and I enjoy promoting it. I make no money from the site. I do it anyway. I find your suggestion offensive. Plain and simple.

Love and hugs Mark. I'm sure you don't mean things the way they sound. Much like me really.

Not trying to be offensive, not at all, let me leave it by saying there are other things one can get from involvement with the sport apart from money.

ShaneT · 01-06-2007 1:23pm

Is it becoz i is welsh?

Roper · 01-06-2007 1:25pm

YOWZA! Where is this going? If there wasn't such a weight difference I'd promote a fight night of my own!

My two cents on the original topic:
There simply aren't enough fighters, and even less consistently active, top fighters, to warrant a statistical breakdown of each division which would be both dubious and innaccurate.

If 3 or 4 people sit down to discuss it, they would never be too far off the mark in any case, as they'd probably have only about 10 fighters in each pool and results would show who was on top. Sure, there might be debate, but isn't that the point? Even in the highly sophisticated Boxing rankings, some anomalies crop up and cause the sort of bar room debate that generates interest in fights and fighters. Also, once a month is far too regular to post any rankings. Once every 3 months would be better

In John Kavanagh, Davey Patterson and Mark Leonard, we have three guys who've been in and around the Irish MMA scene since it's genesis, and for me, they'd be the ideal choice to pick the top fighters. But I think to be honest that they'd pick themselves for the most part, and with the pools being as small as they are it wouldn't be long before any debate would be cleared up with a match-up. For an example see Roddy vs. McAlonan.

I'd offer myself as an adjudicator in these matters, except I'd probably just toss a coin.:D

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 1:26pm

ShaneT wrote:

Is it becoz i is welsh?

lol

The Bored One · 01-06-2007 1:34pm

Hmmmm. Problem with the objective system of statistics is that as mentioned, it doesn't take into account the quality of the fighters. However there's no way of bringing in the fighter quality which isn't subjective, and that would basically cancel out the point of the objective system in the first place.
So, if we go with an objective system, people will dislike and disagree with its results.
If we go with with a subjective system, people will dislike and disagree with its results.
The best we could possible hope for is to use the objective system as a base, and then modify it according to some nice healthy faeces hurling debating about the results.
So......you guys do know we're arguing over whats basically a filing cabinet right?

Nothingcompares · 01-06-2007 1:36pm

What would be the aim of the rankings? Would it be for fighters to know where they stand in the pecking order? Would it be as Mark suggested to help the promoters put two guys of similar ability in the ring/cage together (reduce mismatches)? Would it be to create a champion and number one contender system?

How do the belts work? What's the equivalent of the national title? The UFRs? I think everyone would benefit from having a mutually recognised title at the different weight classes (presumably this already exists). And the titleholder has to, like the UFC, boxing etc., defend that belt x times a year. And the people who he has to defend it against can't be tomato cans like boxing, but the next in line. I'm sure every fighter wants to fight the best of the rest and the promoters want the best shows and the fans (me) want to see the best fights. My only worry (and i'm not calling people names here) is that presumably if the promoter is the coach of the guy with the belt there is a conflict of interest. Will he be inclined to put his fighter in the ring against the best other guy, or a not so good guy? If the ranking system was there, and it has credibility, there would be no hiding.

BrianKirwan · 01-06-2007 2:21pm

Colm_OReilly wrote:

also you really only move through semi pro on your way to tougher matches or (in the case of Kevin McAlonan in the next SPS) fight to stay fresh.

is that a dig saying that Dylan is just a warm up fight for Kevin? maybe you didn't see their last fight, or maybe I've taken you up wrong.
all fairness to Kevin who is a fantastic fighter, but that would be a ridiculous statement to throw in.

Nothingcompares · 01-06-2007 2:24pm

lads you should all play this game it's actually deadly

http://www.digger.org/

get all your digging out of the way

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 2:28pm

I think Kevin vs Dylan in the next SPS was pro rules, is it not?

Roper · 01-06-2007 2:38pm

It is. Was talking and rolling with Dylan last week and I reckon Kevin has his hand's full. I'm looking forward to it.

Tim_Murphy · 01-06-2007 2:49pm

In John Kavanagh, Davey Patterson and Mark Leonard, we have three guys who've been in and around the Irish MMA scene since it's genesis, and for me, they'd be the ideal choice to pick the top fighters.

Agreed. These guys have been around MMA for years and know what the story is. They may not be neutral but nobody is, but they are probably three of the best people to be involved in this kind of thing. Plus given that they are promotors then it's not too hard to get over any disagreements over rankings, just have the guys fight! Statistical analysis is IMO completely unnecessary and not particularly useless for the scene here at present.

BrianKirwan · 01-06-2007 2:51pm

yeah its the pro rules headliner mark.
yeah dylan is in great form lately and looking forward to it. It will be an exciting match between two excellent fighters.

mark.leonard · 01-06-2007 2:53pm

Well not trying to put words in Colm's mouth, but my money says that he thought it was a semi pro match-up in whiche case it would have been "keeping busy" for BOTH of them, as its Pro its legit in every sense.

Personally I can't wait for it!

Tim_Murphy · 01-06-2007 3:00pm

yeah dylan is in great form lately and looking forward to it. It will be an exciting match between two excellent fighters.

I thought Dylan fought at Lightweight not featherweight??

Agreed, it should be a great fight.

weemate · 01-06-2007 3:33pm

there are a few guys here on the boards that have been around since mma started in this country Colm and Dave jones among them as coaches including myself.The call for a governing body went our a long time ago to address this sort of thing ........and we all know what happened then.

BrianKirwan · 01-06-2007 5:44pm

mark.leonard wrote:

Well not trying to put words in Colm's mouth, but my money says that he thought it was a semi pro match-up in whiche case it would have been "keeping busy" for BOTH of them, as its Pro its legit in every sense.

Personally I can't wait for it!

ah yes, that would make more sense alright.

yeah Tim he normally fights at 70kg but is cutting to featherweight for this fight. he just has to give up tescos mini pizzas

back on the point, it would certainly be great to see some sort of rankin system for fighters, so people can keep track of who's who, and promoters can pair fighters better.
it would also add some more competition, if that's possible.

PADRAIC.M · 02-06-2007 1:39am

Also another point about that fight between dylan and kevin, the winner gets a title shot against the ufr title holder james doolan.
I agree mark davey and john should set up the system in which to place fighters, to get things in motion,but with a future plan of eventually leaving it to a non-bias party.
My two cents.

droc · 02-06-2007 12:38pm

After all the discussion going on here the one thing that people seem to agree on is that there should be an independent person/persons who makes the final decision. That could be me.

I'm not affiliated to any club in Ireland, have been involved in the MMA scene, both Irish and international, for as long as probably anyone in Ireland and have been involved in creating rankings in the past (the latest being the FightSport world rankings)

I'm also a professional journalist and as with Ring Magazine for boxing, FightSport magazine for MMA and the (now defunct) MMA Media rankings, media rankings tend to be the most accurate and respected rankings.

Obviously it's better to have the input of a number of different people, so I will get the input of a number of different journalists that are familiar with the Irish MMA scene.

It will take me a little time to get started as results from a lot of Irish and smaller UK events aren't accurate on MMAUniverse or other sites and, for the moment, I'm not familiar with all of the Irish MMA fighters.

DROC

National MMA Rankings

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