MMA/UFC/PRIDE/K-1 discussion thread

Domster

So the rumour going around now is that NSAC arent gonna let Mir fight Sylvia due to his low level of performance in the past few fights hes had. Dunno how legit this is but thats the word. Seems strange since he beat him before!

It's not a rumour. Here's what it says at UFC Junkie

Reports: Frank Mir Scratched from UFC 74 Bout with Tim Sylvia

Tim Sylvia is still expected to fight at UFC 74 in August, but according to recent reports, it won’t be against his fellow former champion Frank Mir.

The two former UFC heavyweight title-holders were expected to battle on UFC 74’s main card on Aug. 25. However, according to the Wrestling Observer, the Nevada State Athletic Commission stepped in and said Mir wasn’t ready to face someone of Sylvia’s caliber. Keith Kizer, the NSAC executive director, made the decision after he factored in Mir’s poor showing against Brandon Vera at UFC 65.

Mir hasn’t fought since that 69-second TKO loss seven months ago. He was slated to face Antoni Hardonk at UFC Fight Night 9 in April but eventually pulled out of the bout with a shoulder injury.

Considering the extent of some past UFC mismatches, the NSAC’s decision to step in with this particular case does seem odd. Assuming Mir, a Las Vegas native, is declared physically fit to compete, should the NSAC then be allowed to step and decide which opponents are suitable?

The bigger question, though, is what’s next for Sylvia. The former champ, who was defeated by Randy Couture at UFC 68 in March, has been vocal about his perceived mistreatment by the UFC. Saying he’s been “kicked around” by the UFC since joining the organization in 2002, Sylvia has been pushed aside as the UFC’s heavyweight division experiences an influx of talent. UFC president Dana White has made no comments about when — if ever — Sylvia may get a chance to reclaim his belt.

Regardless, a win at UFC 74 would be a requirement. Unfortunately, we’ll have to wait to find out a possible opponent.

Domster

Domster wrote:

It's not a rumour. Here's what it says at UFC Junkie

UFCJunkie is a rumour based website predominantly. But thanks for posting the link.


Regardless it does seem odd considerin Mir beat him before and Tim got annihalated by Randy.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote:

He said in an interview no more than 2 months ago that it was a one-fight deal: http://www.mmanews.com/other/Exclusive:-In-Depth-Interview-w-Brock-Lesnar-%5BPt.-1%5D.html. I think we'll be seeing Brock in the UFC very soon

I had read that he'd signed for 3 fights I think. The source was mmaweekly but its an old article so not sure if it was BEFORE he officially signed.

Thats good though but theyd better watch out cos Strikeforce, EliteXC and some of the newer promotions may throw a lot of money at him for exposure.

mark.leonard

Brock was on a one fight deal alright.

Evil_Clown

I watched the entire K1 Dynamite last night

It was pretty disappointing to be honest
Mighty Mo broke Villareal's eye socket which looked pretty sore
The saku gracie fight was awful, at one point they were both against the ropes having a conversation, lame

That football guy (i forget his name) will be consigned to small promotions I think after Bernard ackah knocked him out and he had to leave in a stretcher.

There was a bonus fight with that Brad guy from cage rage, that was ok

The Best fight of the night was dong-sik vs Manhoef, this was a typical grappler against maniac striker, it went over and back for a while with dong getting a closed eye but getting manhoef witrh a couple of good judo throws and eventuallt submitting him

Lesnar won with ground and pound against a poor opponent

I don't think Lesnar has a contract, because after the show he said that he will look and all options from other promotions that come in for him (a basic plea to ufc)
He then said he " wanted to get some belts on the line"

Evil_Clown

Evil_Clown wrote:

He then said he " wanted to get some belts on the line"

He's jumpin the gun. If hes smart he'll take a few more cans and train more and climb the ladder slowly. If he gets put in there with guys who are able to fight, unlike his opponent on saturday, he could be in trouble. He wasnt THAT great a wrestler in Division 1, hes a physical sepcimen more than anything, he needs to be careful Id imagine when he gets hit in the face, real hard, he might reconsider jumping straight in there with the very best.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote:

He wasnt THAT great a wrestler in Division 1, hes a physical sepcimen more than anything

You don't consider an amateur record of 106-5 great?!

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote:

You don't consider an amateur record of 106-5 great?!

Anyone can amass a record like that against lesser competition, u gotta look at how he did in Division 1 as the marker. He did ok but nothing like what Koscheck, Hughes etc did. He never made Pan Am level like Randy or Olympic level like Gardner, Hendo and Lindland.


Take Diego Sanchez and his 16-0 record going into the ultimate fighter house, not sayin Diego isnt legit, hell he beat Karo.....but u gotta look at the competition not the numbers. Brocks size alone should win over most competitiors at a certain level.

Look at Eddie Sanchez, he was "undefeated" going into his fight with Crocop and he literally ran away from him the whole time.

Rumour going around MMA forums that the UFC 75 in London card is going to have:


Crocop vs Arlovski
Rampage vs Hendo



Now I dont believe that theyd have Rampage vs Hendo in Engerland when they had the whole in ring promo is Vegas but thats the rumour.



Its on in the O2 arena which would be worth the trip alone to see!!

cowzerp

Fozzy wrote:

You don't consider an amateur record of 106-5 great?!

This record is class and it does not even matter what level the fights are at, i'd be suprised if he did not beat top wrestlers in this anyway..

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote:

This record is class and it does not even matter what level the fights are at

Course it does. If a BJJ Black Belt entered a grappling tourney at whitebelt level..........think about it.

Look before some WWE fans gets their panties in a twist, what I was tryin to say was that Brock Lesnar is not an ELITE level wrestler. Hes only been training MMA for the guts of a year so give him time.


Elite level wrestlers in MODERN mma have to know their subs and striking. U cant get away with it like Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr did back in the day, the game has evolved. In order to be top of the food chain, Brock would need a lot more than just his size, strength and wrestling ability alone.

cowzerp

im sure he did not take all them fights against easy opponents, Black belt in bjj against white belt is a massive difference and very disrespectful to brocks record imo, if your right then there is no point even talking about his record or him competing at all-but i think your wrong-do you think coaches would keep putting there beginners in with a fella with a record like this? No, thought so, he must have been a good wrestler.

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote:

im sure he did not take all them fights against easy opponents, Black belt in bjj against white belt is a massive difference and very disrespectful to brocks record imo, if your right then there is no point even talking about his record or him competing at all-but i think your wrong-do you think coaches would keep putting there beginners in with a fella with a record like this? No, thought so, he must have been a good wrestler.

Jesus christ will ya read what i said just above u. Imnot dissin his skills, I just said try to look at it objectively instead of letting numbers fool you. Ill go home tonight and get his record and opponents and put it up then ok?

The balck belt/whitebelt was an extreme example.


Its like if u go to a high school in america which has a great wrestling coach but you are the only good wrestler there. The district is weak for competition but they still hold state championships every year. So u go out and win your league against relatively easy competition and amass a record of 45-0. Now that does not mean u are necessarily a sensational wreslter, how do u know his 6 losses werent on the 6 occasions that he stepped upto some real competition?

dlofnep

Deleted User wrote:

Now that does not mean u are necessarily a sensational wreslter, how do u know his 6 losses werent on the 6 occasions that he stepped upto some real competition?

Because he is an NCAA champ, which basically means - he was near olympic level at wrestling and would of having the chance to prove it if he didn't go to the WWE.

Okay i gotta clear this up once and for all. Ill google it later for exact facts.

Lesnar to the best of my knowledge was a 4 time All American and NCAA HW Champ in 2000. Thats impressive. BUT people are overestimating his wrestling credentails. He did not make it to Pan American or Olympic level, and i know not a lot of guys do make it that far, but there have been better wrestlers in MMA, like Kerr, like Coleman (who defeated Kurt Angle in a pre Olympic trial match) who in todays MMA are not at the very top of the food chain.

Himself and Kurt Angle had a wrestling (real) match backstage in WWE when Lesnar 1st got to the top and the general consensus wass that it lasted approx 45 seconds before Kurt won. Now when u consider guys like Coleman have beaten Kurt Angle, and then look at his MMA record since the evolution of the game, its pretty obvious that Brock Lesnar has a long way to go.

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote:

Because he is an NCAA champ, which basically means - he was near olympic level at wrestling and would of having the chance to prove it if he didn't go to the WWE.

Far as I know it goes NCAA then Pan Am, then Olympic level.


Randy Couture was Pan Am

Coleman made Olympic trials

Kerr was an NCAA champ so he's probably the best bench mark as well as the fact that he's made of muscle. Kerr wrecked himself with the drugs so I guess its not the best benchmark but hey, IF Lesnar is able to handle getting punched in the face then he could be a force alright.

I am gonna stand corrected on this one. I got that mixed up, he's obviously a helluva wrestler. Go on abuse me, Im a man, I can take it......but be gentle!!!

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote:

Himself and Kurt Angle had a wrestling (real) match backstage in WWE when Lesnar 1st got to the top and the general consensus wass that it lasted approx 45 seconds before Kurt won. Now when u consider guys like Coleman have beaten Kurt Angle, and then look at his MMA record since the evolution of the game, its pretty obvious that Brock Lesnar has a long way to go.

I don't think you can say anything is obvious just by looking at a short match two guys had while they were messing around! Obviously I'm a pro-wrestling fan, but it's more than just that that makes me believe Lesnar's got what it takes. I mean, I don't think Angle stands a chance if he actually does end up having an MMA match. Brock is different though. Obviously he has some degree of talent in wrestling, more than most wrestlers, but most important is that he isn't relying solely on his existing talent, he's going out and training in other areas. I think Brock came second in the '99 NCAA championships too, he didn't get a chance to get any further in amateur wrestling after that though, he signed with WWE as soon as he left college I think

Frank Shamrock is fighting Phil Baroni in two weeks time in EXC. Frank's training with Dan Henderson next week, might turn out to be a good fight. Rampage said in an interview that his fight with Henderson will be in London. If they keep having so many English events, Bisping will probably never fight in America again!

Roger Huerta was taken off UFC 74 and put on the Ultimate Fighter finale, bit strange I thought. Huerta had an excellent fight last time, that's the sort of stuff that would make people want to buy the ppv

crazy monkey

Kurt Angle beat Lesnar in a wrestling match as in a pin
Kurt couldn't last in MMA as he is physically fecked up...rumours of addiction to pain killers. In his last WWE match he torn muscles across his whole body...

Lesnar does need some work. Boxing/thai boxing.
I personally thought he just didn't want to bruise a knuckle hitting his opponent.
He is a great physical specimen.
No doubt he has a future.
The guy is no thick.

As for similarities with Kerr there are more than you know..don't forget Lesnar was arrested for buying illegal/banned drugs [steroids]

As for Kerr, he was a mental shambles by the end of his ''prime''
Watch the smashing machine
Since then he's pulled out of numerous low key/up and coming promotions for various reasons, such as pay, travel, illness and injury.
Kerr was ahead of the curve, for the ''wrestlers'' anyway.
While Coleman and Randleman were concentrating on wrestling at the star and the middle of the careers, Kerr starting training in Thai boxing after his first few fights by the time he left the UFC he was training with Bas Rutten.

Shame what's happened to him and Coleman.

Lindland is a terrific wrestler and great MMA fighter.
Have to remember lately he's being fighting much bigger guys and these days they don't come much bigger than Fedor.

Randy is a robotic with a brain and always brings a relentless 5 round game plan. Watch the Sylvia fight.
He destroyed Sylvia mentally in that fight. Round three is the best example...The striking round. By round 5 Sylvia asked...''Is this the fifth round?'' Gone mentally. Randy is top of the wrestlers who converted to MMA.

Hendo is very similar to Randy. Great at both weight divisions a win for Rampage really gives the UFC ''weight'' in Asia. After all that win for Rampage would be bigger than when Diaz beat Gomi.

In an interview Dana said something along the lines of - Diaz was cut from the UFC and he beat the hell out of Gomi...and to think Diaz was cut from the UFC...

Dana mentioned that Diaz won but was cut from the UFC about 10 times...in the interview I read.

Wrestlers do great in MMA
So too do grapplers from a bjj background lets not forget Karo and his Judo.

I love strikers don't get me wrong just adding my two cents on the wrestlers angle that jumped up from this thread.

I can't remember where I saw the quote so I only have my word...hope that's good enough.

Fozzy

crazy monkey wrote:

Kurt couldn't last in MMA as he is physically fecked up...rumours of addiction to pain killers. In his last WWE match he torn muscles across his whole body...

He was able to get back wrestling in only two months though. I think the five times broken neck would cause him the most trouble, he mightn't even be cleared by the athletic commission for MMA. If it ever does happen

crazy monkey wrote:

As for similarities with Kerr there are more than you know..don't forget Lesnar was arrested for buying illegal/banned drugs [steroids]

And then he was let off because they were legal supplements and not steroids

crazy monkey

Fozzy...

fair enought about Lesnar...

But aboput Kurt...you say he was wrestling within two months...
What tests medical or otherwise do you have to take to be a pro wrestler?
I don't think he would be allowed to wrestle by any athletic commission and I doubt and serious promoter would want him fighting considering the rumours circulating about his ''problems''

Just so you know I'm a big MMA and pro wrestling fan and Kurt should have moved to MMA at the latest 4 years ago before his last major surgery.

The bumps you take in MMA are deliberate the bumps you take in wrestling certainly hurt but are either accidents [which can be worse] or when you mess up.

I wish Kurt all the best but for his own safety and his family's well being he shouldn't venture into MMA

ciao

Fozzy

crazy monkey wrote:

But aboput Kurt...you say he was wrestling within two months...
What tests medical or otherwise do you have to take to be a pro wrestler?
I don't think he would be allowed to wrestle by any athletic commission and I doubt and serious promoter would want him fighting considering the rumours circulating about his ''problems''

I'm not sure exactly what the tests are, but they're definitely not as stringent as they would be for MMA. I'm not sure if you mean wrestling or MMA promoter - TNA, the wrestling promotion, wanted him wrestling so they could get people watching and make money. Dana White said recently that he's talking with Kurt again and I would imagine it's for the same reasons. Despite the fact that Kurt's probably not going to do too well in MMA, his name could sell a ppv to a lot of people. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about with the UFC

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote:

Dana White said recently that he's talking with Kurt again and I would imagine it's for the same reasons. Despite the fact that Kurt's probably not going to do too well in MMA, his name could sell a ppv to a lot of people. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about with the UFC

Kurt would have to pass some serious medical tests if he were to compete, the guy is like an injury magnet. I watched an interview with Dana recently enough where he said, and I quote "Kurts full of sh*t. The thing about Kurt is that Kurt doesnt actually want to fight. He keeps dropping our name in there but he;s not going to back it up. We offered hima deal where he could go and train with Randy Couture for a year and learn boxing and submissions and he turned it down"


Granted himself and Brock Lesnar would sell tickets but whether pro wrestlers coming into UFC would be a good or bad thing remains to be seen.

Looks like we're gonna have to wait another while for Crocop vs Arlovski.


Mirko is fighting Cheick Kongo is London in September. Source is mmaweekly.com

Dragan

Deleted User wrote:

Looks like we're gonna have to wait another while for Crocop vs Arlovski.


Mirko is fighting Cheick Kongo is London in September. Source is mmaweekly.com

As far as i am aware Arlovski is in the wings to take on the winner of Randy and Gonzaga......this has been the case since he beat Werdum, no?

Dragan

Actually, speaking of Lesnar, here are the pay outs for his MMA debut.

http://www.mmanews.com/other/Official-K-1Elite-XC-Dynamite-USA-Pay-Out-Info.html

Dragan

Dragan wrote:

As far as i am aware Arlovski is in the wings to take on the winner of Randy and Gonzaga......this has been the case since he beat Werdum, no?

Yes, but there was talk that he would have to fight Mirko due to the UFC's acquisition of Nogueira and the fact that he was very negative in his approach to the Werdum fight.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote:

I watched an interview with Dana recently enough where he said, and I quote "Kurts full of sh*t. The thing about Kurt is that Kurt doesnt actually want to fight. He keeps dropping our name in there but he;s not going to back it up. We offered hima deal where he could go and train with Randy Couture for a year and learn boxing and submissions and he turned it down"

That interview was from back around March, Dana said two or three weeks ago that he's been meeting with Angle again because apparently he's more serious

Royce got paid 10 times as much as Sakuraba? Bit strange I'd have thought, especially considering how many Japanese people were in the stadium, surely Sakuraba had a big part to play in that

Evil_Clown

Also on this pay thing for dynamite

Bernard Ackah only got $5,000, whats up with that
It would hardly cover his costs
While that useless dude he was fightin got $100,000

I also totally agree on the sakuraba thing he deserved as much as Gracie