small pot

robinlacey

only just sat down so no history as such,but in general i'm probably the most aggressive player in these games.don't know much about villain,think i've played him before once or twice but i don't remember any specific hands against him.i presume he's solid enough.

10/20 full ring,two limpers,SB completes,i check 88.

flop T 2 8 with a flush draw.

SB pauses for a second before checking,i bet 80,fold fold call.

turn is a 4,completing the flush draw.

villain checks,i bet 150,he calls.

river is a 9,he bets the pot,i fold.

too weak?

ianmc38

No i think it's fine. His line is really strong.

robinlacey

one thing i should clarify about this and other hands i've been posting.

these hands are taking place on bodog,where the games are a lot more passive than on other sites.so when i say i'm the most agressive player at that table,that's not saying much.if this was full tilt i'd probably be one of the least agressive players at the table.

similarly,when i say someone is a solid regular,i mean he's not doing crazy things,its 10/20 so he's at least decent and not prone to huge mistakes,but he's not triple barrel reverse value bluffing his merged backdoor flushdraws like all the full tilt regulars are appearently doing.

solid regulars are generally tight,waiting for the fish to make mistakes,and fairly uncreative,although they can surprise you from time to time i suppose.

pok3rplaya

yeah standard.

BR me for these games plz?

robinlacey

lol,after the run i've had i'm barely bankrolled for them myself!

pok3rplaya

Try playing 100NL ffs

robinlacey

jesus,really?

you must be running even worse than me...

have you taken a break or anything? its really hard to play well at stakes much lower than you're used to when you've just dropped down,i was breaking even at 3/6 for like a month,partially through running terribly,but also just because my concentration was shot and i was getting frustrated.

anyway,sorry to hear that,judging by your posts and the few times i played you on party i'm sure you'll be back up through the stakes soon enough though.

RoundTower

well you have a set, I would probably call. His line is a little bit strange but I don't see why he has to have a flush.

pok3rplaya

Well I still have a 18k BR but I withdrew loads and I'm gonna rebuild because I was just spewing all over the place at 400-1kNL. Finding it tought enough though.

You played me on party!!? Damn I must have good table selection skillz. Care to PM your SN?

robinlacey

i'm rammelzee on party,i played you a bit at 5/10 around february.i thought you knew it was me,i mentioned it in a thread somewhere.

your game selection was spot on,i was playing terribly at the time....

BigCityBanker

Is this not a good spot to check behind on the Turn?

ocallagh

I agree BCB, maybe the turn bet was to do with how robin was playing, meta game etc.

ie: If robin has been playing really aggro then I don't mind the bet on the turn. It can sometimes look like he is clutching at straws representing stuff throughout the streets which can look really weak and get us more value from 2 pair/AT etc.

In regards the original post I don't know what I'd do!

bops

check the turn and try and get a cheap showdown - although if you bet it like you did, and the board pairs, you may get the lot

TBH i like a smaller bet from you on the turn - say 80 again - it looks like a value bet and also gets you the info you require cheeper

Since you bet the turn strong, i wouldn't be surprised if his call and pot bet are not bluffs (well semi-bluffs he has a bit of it) i think you'd often see 2 pair in this spot

Your aggro image will lead to people thinking that you haven't filled your hand - it is more profitable for you to bet strong when you do hit it imo

i think i'm confusing myself - i should just lurk!

ianmc38

Checking and betting the turn are both fine.

Marq

pok3rplaya wrote:

yeah standard.

I don't think there's anything standard about this. I don't think folding a set when there's legitimately only one or two hands that are beating you is an easy decision.
Yes his line is strong, yes a flush (or a set of nines, ugh) is very possible, but I think that this is a marginal situation, not a clear cut one.
Folding may be right given your description of the general play of these players, but I imagine you find a call here against a lot of people that you might have more information on.

Marq

bops wrote:

TBH i like a smaller bet from you on the turn - say 80 again - it looks like a value bet and also gets you the info you require cheeper

betting 80 into a pot of 240 on the turn here is, in my humble, honest opinion, fúcking retarded.

bops

Marq wrote:

betting 80 into a pot of 240 on the turn here is, in my humble, honest opinion, fúcking retarded.

yes the bet is retarded - it's supposed to be - smaller/slower than it should normally be

your posts, on the other hand, are intellectually retarded, you posts add nothing beneficial to boards and you should be banned for posts such as the one above

now move up levels you twat

jimmii

I would check behind on the turn and hope just call a river bet he'll lead out with a lot there. Its a tough situation to be in now if he is very passive then a pot sized river bet has to be a serious worry calling a pot size bet with just the flush draw doesn't seem to smart on the flop as he has to assume you are going to fire again on the turn.

5starpool

Marq and Bops. Shut it.

Marq

bops wrote:

yes the bet is retarded - it's supposed to be - smaller/slower than it should normally be

What are you hoping your opponent will do when you make this donk bet?
Have you already ruled a flush out of his range and are trying to induce a massive bluff/value raise with a worse hand?
I think this is may be an ok line if you know exactly what your opponent has, but if we are ahead here, but opponent has decided to call us down with a worse hand, we're as likely to get him to call a 2/3 pot bet as a donk bet, and we make the pot bigger with our good hand.

bops wrote:

your posts, on the other hand, are intellectually retarded, you posts add nothing beneficial to boards and you should be banned for posts such as the one above

As with many of your posts on this forum, I find the advice here baseless, uninformed, subjective and most importantly, wrong.
If you can't defend your position with recourse to reason, at least don't use such argumenta ad hominum to attempt to assasinate my character. Even if I was actually truly retarded it still wouldn't make your position any more correct.

bops

Marq wrote:

What are you hoping your opponent will do when you make this donk bet?

I am hoping to find out where i stand cheaper and also get to see the river cheap - more than anything the donk bet is used to confuse him! - it looks like you either have nothing or a monster (you have neither at this stage)

He will call this bet with hands you beat eg TPTK and 2 pair, and of course a flush and higher set, but he will only go OTT with a flush here - so if he chose to RR you get away relatively cheap knowing that you are behind

Marq wrote:

Have you already ruled a flush out of his range and are trying to induce a massive bluff/value raise with a worse hand?

Nope!! The flush is well within his range/play here

Marq wrote:

I think this is may be an ok line if you know exactly what your opponent has, but if we are ahead here, but opponent has decided to call us down with a worse hand, we're as likely to get him to call a 2/3 pot bet as a donk bet, and we make the pot bigger with our good hand.

I think a 2/3 pot sized bet will fold out nearly all hands that you beat here - he could easily put you on the flush here - well that's how i'd mostly play it anyway.

Why bet 2/3 pot into a guy who easily could have just overtaken you?
If you check - you will learn nothing from his bet that he is sure to make
therefore my retardo bet looks good to me!

Marq wrote:

As with many of your posts on this forum, I find the advice here baseless, uninformed, subjective and most importantly, wrong.

thanks! - most of my posts may appear this way, but in general i just like to give a different viewpoint on certain situations - by giving correct/incorrect differing solutions is the way most thinking people learn.
Saying i am wrong is a bit harsh tho - maybe not optimal may be closer to the truth!

Marq wrote:

If you can't defend your position with recourse to reason, at least don't use such argumenta ad hominum to attempt to assasinate my character. Even if I was actually truly retarded it still wouldn't make your position any more correct.

I was supposed to defend

Marq wrote:

betting 80 into a pot of 240 on the turn here is, in my humble, honest opinion, fúcking retarded.

??

your post had no substance, just slurrrrrrrr - if it had a because somewhere in it - this may have lead me to retort in a more productive manner.

Everybody is retarded in some way - just some are more retarded than others! - i've just noticed you have changed your line - a couple of weeks ago every second post was "move up levels", now you stick retarded into the majority of them instead.

Just beacuse you are a moderator doesn't give you the authority to post such personal abuse like above - yes i took it as personal abuse - only i can take it and i will also give it back to those who deserve it

good luck

bops


ps 5starpool - i don't think i'm out of line here, but please feel free to pm me if you think otherwise

Ste05

After Dom's warning, hopefully this is the end of the fisticuffs (sp?).

[EDIT: Ughhh, I see Bops has just responded above me. Lads, just leave out the personal sh1t and debate the points on their own. You've both said your piece now, so can we just move on, this doesn't have to end with bannings, but ignoring what is now 2 mod warnings will be reason for a banning, take it to PM's if you want to have further words with each other, just debate the hand in this thread, Thanks]

I think this looks really like a flush, especially given the descriptions of the players, but I'm very much in the never fold sets camp, but the Villains line looks so strong this is probably one of those spots where a fold is correct, but I live and die by my rule of never folding sets to one bet, although I could probably count the Turn bet as that bet and fold now although I could very easily call this River though. I would probably check the turn personally and call a River bet or bet myself if checked to.

robinlacey

yeah checking the turn probably would have been sensible,but i bet so many turns that i thought there was a good chance of getting called by a worse hand.

El Stuntman

Marq wrote:

argumenta ad hominum

damn compulsory Irish!

pok3rplaya

Marq wrote:

I don't think there's anything standard about this. I don't think folding a set when there's legitimately only one or two hands that are beating you is an easy decision.
Yes his line is strong, yes a flush (or a set of nines, ugh) is very possible, but I think that this is a marginal situation, not a clear cut one.
Folding may be right given your description of the general play of these players, but I imagine you find a call here against a lot of people that you might have more information on.

He has a flush. Hand reading 101.

I'd love to know how fast he checked the turn though. I think thats key info.

cardshark202

So I assume he never does this with T9?