Chasing up a bad debt

The Corinthian

I'm presently owed the balance (just under a grand) on some work done for a marketing firm who were acting on behalf of a client. My dealings were entirely with said marketing firm - sign offs, communications, invoices, meetings, etc. Work was accepted, and no question has been put on the quality thereof. Payments did, however, come directly from their client.

Meanwhile, from what I can make up they screwed up the larger project (of which my involvement was only a small part) and now their client refuses to pay them or anyone else involved any more money. Upshot is they're pulling the "it's not us who owes you, it's him..." card now.

Question is what would people recommend with regard to securing this money? If selling the debt, who might people recommend? Ideas and personal experiences welcome.

Sponge Bob

court and sherriff to collect ..unless you want/expect more business from them in which case you may have to share the pain with them and settle for a %

The Corinthian

Sponge Bob wrote:

court and sherriff to collect ..

Could you be a little more specific?

Mr. Presentable

Whoever you invoiced (the marketing co) and accepted said invoices owes you the money. Your getting paid does not depend on them getting paid. You were not employed by the client in this case, but by the marketing co. If I understand you correctly.

Sponge Bob

Take them to court and if they still do not pay then use the sheriff to collect the monies from them that the court ordered them to pay along with the sheriffs own costs .

Savman

Been there, done that.
Solicitor specialising in debt collection will best advise. If you pursue legal course of action, just be sure you never want to work for/with this company again.

The Corinthian

nipplenuts wrote:

Whoever you invoiced (the marketing co) and accepted said invoices owes you the money. Your getting paid does not depend on them getting paid. You were not employed by the client in this case, but by the marketing co. If I understand you correctly.

Correct. Pushing the debt onto their client on the pretext that all cheques were from him even though my invoices were to them, was a very obvious scam that I've seen before, but had been able to press successfully for payment in the past. I've been doing this for a good few years and have miraculously only had one bad debt in the past, so it's actually something I've never really had to deal with to this level.

Savman wrote:

Been there, done that.
Solicitor specialising in debt collection will best advise. If you pursue legal course of action, just be sure you never want to work for/with this company again.

Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Could you PM me the solicitor you used, if you feel they were good?

Also if anyone else can recommend solicitors specialising in debt collection, I'd appreciate it. Many thanks for the responses.

fintan

This kind of scenario is really common in the construction industry, any solicitors office will able to help you, the paperwork is all very standard.

Just agree fees up front with them and get them to clarify if it does go to court how much it will cost, it may work out more expensive than the actual out-standing invoice.

The Corinthian

fintan wrote:

Just agree fees up front with them and get them to clarify if it does go to court how much it will cost, it may work out more expensive than the actual out-standing invoice.

Well, this is why I'm asking for alternatives, such as selling the debt. The problem is, otherwise, that any company could simply refuse to pay any amount as long as they did not need the supplier again in the future and the amount was low enough that any legal action would result in a Pyhrric victory, at best, for the creditor.

Given this I'd assume one could demand costs in such a case?

Any suggestions / recommendations on debt collection agencies?

blue4ever

Just to recap:

Be under no illusion – the debt is with the marketing company. They can say what they like. In my experience, you wont be able to sell that account to a debt collection agency.

Also – another poster was correct – be prepared to not do any work with them – but with friends like them…. Fcuk them – if they don’t pay .. well that says a lot about them.

Firstly this can be costly – say e600 and never forget in the process that you are owed this money and have every right to be paid in full - dont horse trade for half the money.

1) get on the phone to you contact and express concern with the fact that you have not been paid – if you get the story of being contracted by the client – say forget it – the debt is with you.
2) If you get nowhere – tell them that you will have to take this further. This will involved legal proceedings. (at this point you are now never going to work for them again!)
3) You should them scribe them a letter – possible to the principal of the company (mentioning the client, the work and the money owed). Say that you have got nowhere and this if the money is not paid – you will issue proceedings in 10 days (give a date)
4) Get a solicitor and in the ten days – get them to write to the company, tell them your intentions – and if nothing is done follow through.

Remember – one of the ‘pillars’ of a marketing/service company is its reputation. A marketing company who does not protect the clients name/rep - it’s a sin! At every hands turn, in writing, mention the client.

Last thing – you are owed – DON’T BACK DOWN – get your money.

Cheers

C

antoinolachtnai

Just under a grand? I would find another way to make that grand back. That would be the most expensive grand you will ever collect.

If it were 20k, it might be a different matter.

I think you would be better to see if you could cultivate the end client and see if there is any value in that.

Trojan

The Corinthian wrote:

Any suggestions / recommendations on debt collection agencies?

I heard about these guys recently but haven't used them (thankfully):

http://www.traceysolicitors.ie/demand-letter.html

Our man in Havana

The problem with going the legal route is that they can ignore everything and you have to fork out for the solicitor and legal fees. I know of one dodgy business that simply fires solicitors letters in the bin. When i threatened to send them a solicitors letter, they said go ahead we eat those for breakfast.

You could get a judgment and send out the sheriff and they can fob off the sheriff with excuses that they have no money. Nothing the sheriff can do about that. More expense for you.

Think carefully before going down the legal route.

Dummy

Is Corinthian not entitled to go to the Small Claims Court? I would expect this to be a much cheaper legal option, but I have have never had to go there.

It would be the last resort after the phone call and letter.

EKRIUQ

Dummy wrote:

Is Corinthian not entitled to go to the Small Claims Court? I would expect this to be a much cheaper legal option, but I have have never had to go there.

It would be the last resort after the phone call and letter.

Small claims court is only for customer v Company not Company V Company

Figment

This all sounds a bit too familiar!

Your best chance of getting the money is to door stop them however for that amount you would make more money concentrating on work.

Start off with a legal letter or three and see how far it gets you. If no movement can you at least make it look as if it has been handed over to a dept collection agency?

Its a hugely frustrating thing to happen and i know you want nothing more then the satisfaction of making them pay but sometimes it just doesn't make business sense.

Dinarius

I'm a photographer owed €1800 from a private individual. They used the images in a book and I am credited as the photographer, so there is no issue about what happened to the work I did for them.

I've sent loads of letters. No joy.

A solicitor friend is about to send a letter for me.

If that doesn't work, am I right in thinking that individual to individual (I'm not a limited company) does not qualify for the small claims court?

If so, I'm tempted to sell it to a debt collection agency. I've accepted that I'll never work for them again, so the satisfaction of having them pestered by someone who does it for a living is all I've got. And, truth be told, I don't really need the money.

The Corinthian

Dinarius wrote: »

If that doesn't work, am I right in thinking that individual to individual (I'm not a limited company) does not qualify for the small claims court?

No. Breach of contract and bad debts are not covered by the small claims court in Ireland.

If so, I'm tempted to sell it to a debt collection agency.

Possibly, but you'll see very little of the money then.

I've accepted that I'll never work for them again, so the satisfaction of having them pestered by someone who does it for a living is all I've got. And, truth be told, I don't really need the money.

Actually, the photographs - until paid for - may still belong to you, in which they are in breach of copyright, which could cost them a lot more than €1,800. Consult a solicitor.

Mr Clonfadda

My company use http://www.eccreditcontrol.ie/ they will collect your debt for a 20% fee. What we do is charge interest and give customer a certain period of time to pay. If we still don't receive money we charge the collection fee. And refer Debt to Company above has worked very well for us in past.

Dinarius

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually, the photographs - until paid for - may still belong to you, in which they are in breach of copyright, which could cost them a lot more than €1,800. Consult a solicitor.

Since, in 24 years in this business, I've never been in this situation before, the copyright issue hadn't crossed my mind. I will look into that.

Will have a look at eccreditcontrol.

Thanks to both.

D.

Our man in Havana

Nigel Sage wrote: »

My company use http://www.eccreditcontrol.ie/ they will collect your debt for a 20% fee. What we do is charge interest and give customer a certain period of time to pay. If we still don't receive money we charge the collection fee. And refer Debt to Company above has worked very well for us in past.

It should be noted that these guys don't buy the debt, they simply try to collect it. So if they don't collect you don't get a penny.

The crowds that buy debts will give you very little for the debt. You would be lucky to get 10%.

elgransenor

There is a possibility that the marketing co., if pursued legally, will claim that they were acting as agent of the customer(the Principal).
The amount concerned is pretty small but I would go to a collection agency who will charge you a percentage of what they collect.At least they will only cost you if they collect and if they don't operate like that(no foal,no fee) then turning up at the marketing co. offices and embarrassing them might be the way to go.