Beverley Cooper Flynn

Santa Claus

Could she be the shortest serving TD ever ??

I see in todays papers that RTE lawyers filed a petition last thursday (election day...how ironic) to have Bev declared bankrupt as she still hasn't paid any of the award granted against her (2.84mill including interest), and the case is due to be heard on 11th June.

So assuming she's declared bankrupt then there'll have to be a by-election won't there and that could play havoc with Bertie's making up the numbers !

Of course, Bertie might be able to put her in touch with some mutual friends who coyuld give her a "dig out" to pay RTE off

MisterAnarchy

Saw that allright.
€2.84 million,thats not pocket change .

Villain

If she backs FF for Government I'm sure of FF's close friends could give her a loan, Paddy the plasterer etc.

copacetic

will be interesting to see what happens, sounds like negotiations have gone on for a long long time with no reasonable offer coming from her to settle. possibly they held off with the action until election day so no chance of accusations of interfering with her chances.

she says she doesn't have the cash to pay so should be declared bankrupt and her assets used to fund payment of the max amount possible. She'll lose here seat and there would have to be a by election, which you would have to guess would go FFs way. During the gap though it messes up their numbers as they would need finian mcgrath or lowry.

They know this is a risk of course and will be looking to make a deal with all the independents anyway to cover any one of them pulling out for any reason..

daveirl

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Chakar

Yeah she's in trouble alright. Hopefully Fianna Fáil could get an second seat in the case of a by-election though it's a long shot. There's still Gregory, McGrath, Healy-Rae along with Harney and Grealish.

gonk

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Don't count on it. The majority of Mayo TDs are now FG. A lot of Mayo people voted FG in the hope of seeing a Mayo Taoiseach. They might welcome a 2nd bite at the cherry . . .

copacetic

Chakar wrote:

Yeah she's in trouble alright. Hopefully Fianna Fáil could get an second seat in the case of a by-election though it's a long shot. There's still Gregory, McGrath, Healy-Rae along with Harney and Grealish.

I don't think Bertie would like that though, and wouldn't he need an independent to go for cean comhairle (sp?) too to get the numbers?
He needs 84 otherwise.
Lowry?? sweet jebus!

with gregory or mcgrath knowing they were the only thing keeping the government going it would be far from stable imo.

The White Rose

I thought that Cooper-Flynn had shacked up some rich property developer (it wasn't for his looks i can tell ye)

He'll bail her out id say if needs be

opinionated

I will tell you guys one thing...Mayo needs her to go into coallition with Bertie or we are ****ed with only one TD with a connection...

Our man in Havana

If she is declared bankrupt on June 11 she will not be allowed to sit at all in the 30th Dáil. Should be interesting.

opinionated

God Damn those RTE people...

Avns1s

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

FG got 54% of the vote in Mayo and for a long time on Thursday, it looked like Michelle Mulherin could possibly have taken the seat from Flynn on transfers.

I wouldn't be so sure at all if I were you.

carlowboy

Aye, Mayo is FG's strongest constituency by a mile.

gandalf

opinionated wrote:

I will tell you guys one thing...Mayo needs her to go into coallition with Bertie or we are ****ed with only one TD with a connection...

Why? Do you see your TD's as some form of jumped up councillor. This is precisely the problem with Irish Politics at the moment. TD's are there to legislate for national policies :rolleyes:

homah_7ft

gandalf wrote:

Why? Do you see your TD's as some form of jumped up councillor. This is precisely the problem with Irish Politics at the moment. TD's are there to legislate for national policies :rolleyes:

As the saying goes, all politics is local. It's human nature to make the current system work to your own benefit. Clientelism is the name of the game.

gandalf

homah_7ft wrote:

As the saying goes, all politics is local. It's human nature to make the current system work to your own benefit. Clientelism is the name of the game.

Then we might as well disband all CC's and let the cronyism fly.

Sometimes I dispair at the disguising greed and "me feinery" in this country.

homah_7ft

It's the current system though. You shouldn't criticise people for trying to use it to their advantage. I'm guessing you would be for changing to a German type system.

copacetic

opinionated wrote:

God Damn those RTE people...

?

How so?

Surely god damn beverly for selling illegal accounts and then
when caught, bringing a court case that she could never prove and then
refusing to pay up.

If anything what RTÉ have done wrong is give her so long to make some kind of effort to pay, it's our money that was spent defending her action..

gandalf

No I want the members of the National Assembly to legislate for National Issues and leave the changing room for the local GAA team or bollards in the housing estate to the councillors. Then again if the "majority" don't see anything wrong with this then who am I to complain.

homah_7ft

Yep. I agree with you. It should be the way. What is the current record for the shortest serving TD?

gandalf

I also expect standards in public life, something again that the "majority" don't seem to want.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

gandalf

Just think if we had proper ethics in place someone like BCF would not have been allowed run in the first place and this potential timebomb for the proposed new Coalition wouldn't exist.

FG will more than likely win any by-election and Taoiseach Biffo will have a dilemma then.

It will be sweetly ironic eh

copacetic

gandalf wrote:

I also expect standards in public life, something again that the "majority" don't seem to want.

careful gandy, you are starting to sound like michael McD with sour grapes in his mouth!:D

gandalf

copacetic wrote:

careful gandy, you are starting to sound like michael McD with sour grapes in his mouth!:D

Naw just stating a fact. Remember the next election campaign has already started.

copacetic

gandalf wrote:

Naw just stating a fact. Remember the next election campaign has already started.

i can just picture michael muttering the same things to himself as he knocks back a nice glass of wine with his sunday dinner though!

gandalf

Who?

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

Naw just stating a fact. Remember the next election campaign has already started.

Yea, but you could almost call it a fact that there's a bit of a corrupt mentality in us all, that's why we forgive others for it.

gandalf

cast_iron wrote:

Yea, but you could almost call it a fact that there's a bit of a corrupt mentality in us all, that's why we forgive others for it.

You may have that character flaw I and alot of other people don't.

copacetic

gandalf wrote:

Who?

McDowell..

gandalf

Who?

copacetic

gandalf wrote:

Who?

you know the guy, he was tallish and baldish and used to say something about somethings, loudish guy I think. was in some party that used to be around, the FPs or something..

gandalf

Naw doesn't ring a bell at all, he's obviously irrelevant

Could he loan Bev the cash ?

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

You may have that character flaw I and alot of other people don't.

Yea, I do. It's a human trait...

And going by the election result, I'm not in the minority.

gandalf

cast_iron wrote:

Yea, I do. It's a human trait...

And going by the election result, I'm not in the minority.

Well if 41% is a majority ?

So you don't want your public representatives to aspire to high standards then.

Let people help others to evade tax, sure no problem.

Let people evade tax, sure no problem.

Let people take monies left right and centre and then only when found out do they claim they are "loans" when their boss at the time said if he had knowledge of the financial toing and froings he would have fired their ass, certainly suits you sir.

Let people drunk drive down the wrong side of the road, get disqualified and allow them to run anyway, hic why not!!!

jmayo

opinionated wrote:

I will tell you guys one thing...Mayo needs her to go into coallition with Bertie or we are ****ed with only one TD with a connection...

well what have the government given us over last ten years?
Oh yeah they sold the gas off our shoresw, oops I mean gave it away to shell.
They have done f all for us over last ten odd years.
Mayo does not need her or her kin. Mayo will get more with no FF TD.
That way they might be interested in getting one elected the next time.

E92

I would have thought that a bye election in Mayo would have favoured FF if that is to happen. Perhaps Enda knows something we don't with all his mutterings about him still being able to be Taoiseach?

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

Well if 41% is a majority ?

I'd have been dissappointed if you didn't point that out.;)
However, you are trying to imply everyone that 50% of the voters voted for the opposition purely because FF are corrupt. This election wasn't about corruption, that was well clear, so labouring that point won't get you anywhere.

gandalf wrote:

So you don't want your public representatives to aspire to high standards then.

Let people help others to evade tax, sure no problem.

Let people evade tax, sure no problem.

Let people take monies left right and centre and then only when found out do they claim they are "loans" when their boss at the time said if he had knowledge of the financial toing and froings he would have fired their ass, certainly suits you sir.

Let people drunk drive down the wrong side of the road, get disqualified and allow them to run anyway, hic why not!!!

Some of that is clearly illegal, some may be unethical.
I never advocated any of it.

Not alone that, because somebody made a mistake in their lives, they should resign from the job they devoted their life to? Some would say yes, some no. I would say it depends on the severity of the offence.

All I'm saying is that alot of people see a bit of ourselves in FF, which goes some way to explaining why more people voted for them than any other party in the state. If we all lived up to your (apparent) high standards, then surely that would not have happened. No?

gandalf

BTW who says I am singling out FF theres at least one former FG minister in that list as well.

As regards the percentage you were the first person that used the arguement that the "majority" agree with you. I was just pointing out the fallacy that 41% is a majority

You see I would expect someone in the highest office in the country would have higher standards, they are responsible for administering our taxes monies and if there is doubt created by them taking funds in a "non standard" manner then yes they should be removed from that position.

Its a little different from the job I hold or I daresay you. But if my employers felt I had let an outside source dictate the way I transacted my business I would be fired rapidally......

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

As regards the percentage you were the first person that used the arguement that the "majority" agree with you. I was just pointing out the fallacy that 41% is a majority

Well actually, I didn't. And I thought my last post explained that.

gandalf wrote:

You see I would expect someone in the highest office in the country would have higher standards, they are responsible for administering our taxes monies and if there is doubt created by them taking funds in a "non standard" manner then yes they should be removed from that position.

There are few around here that don't know that's your opinion. I've stated mine, and the stats back up the fact that I am in the majority on this one.;) (More people favoured Bertie for Taoiseach than anyone else.)

gandalf wrote:

Its a little different from the job I hold or I daresay you. But if my employers felt I had let an outside source dictate the way I transacted my business I would be fired rapidally......

Once again, the people of Ireland don't seem to hold the same opinion.

McSandwich

cast_iron wrote:

All I'm saying is that alot of people see a bit of ourselves in FF, which goes some way to explaining why more people voted for them than any other party in the state. If we all lived up to your (apparent) high standards, then surely that would not have happened. No?

We all make mistakes but people in positions of power have responsibilities not to abuse that power. If you or I were caught driving drunk on the wrong side of a dual carriageway, what would be the chance of getting away with it? By re-lecting those who abuse their positions, we're saying that (occasional) abuse is ok. Would this also be acceptable for Gardai, Priests, Teachers, Doctors...?


edit - typos

Crash

Its all down to broken window economics

gandalf

&#231 wrote: »

Its all down to broken window economics

Quote of the day, I love it

copacetic

not sure if this is what crash meant, but the parable of broken window is a reasonably well know economic theory, even wikipedia has a shot at it..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

cast_iron

McSandwich wrote:

We all make mistakes but people in positions of power have responsibilities not to abuse that power. If you or I were caught driving drunk on the wrong side of a dual carriageway, what would be the chance of getting away with it? By re-lecting those who abuse their positions, we're saying that (occasional) abuse is ok. Would this also be acceptable for Gardai, Priests, Teachers, Doctors...?

I think you are confusing 2 different issues there:

1. Bertie's standards - nothing proven; if and when proven you may have a point.

2. The drink driving issue - doesn't involve an abuse of power. It's an offence that (in the case I'm assuming you are refering to) was punished by the courts.

Chakar

It is a fallacy to say that 59% voted against the government. Ireland is a parliamentary democracy made of parties and independent deputies. The parties each have a share of the vote, which are translated into seats. Thus the seats of the parties in possible options in forming any government in a parliamentary democracy is the most important criterion here.

The nature of the parliamentary system is such that there can be changes in different parties comprising the government, however in Election 2007 there was a clear alternative to the current government so the electorate chose Fianna Fáil and Bertie Ahern to lead the next government as a major coalition partner. Bertie Ahern now has two viable options between the Greens and PD's/Independents. None of their seats are of any less 'value'. Any of those options can form a government commanding an majority.

gandalf

cast_iron wrote:

I think you are confusing 2 different issues there:

1. Bertie's standards - nothing proven; if and when proven you may have a point.

But the Taoiseach at that time Albert Reynolds said he would have fired Bertie at the time had he found out, like Bertie shafted Ivor over his €2000 paintjob.

2. The drink driving issue - doesn't involve an abuse of power. It's an offence that (in the case I'm assuming you are refering to) was punished by the courts.

You can see the point, how can a man who campaigned on behalf of the government against drink driving then got caught doing the very same thing be allowed to run for office again. Surely even FF had candidates that could run instead of this tainted individual?

The fact that they are considering relying on someone who has serious questions over their name in allegedly helping others evade tax. And of course the issues that started this thread being made bankrupt.

I find it worrying that a TD can be defrocked so to speak for being bankrupt rather than one that drunk drove the wrong way along a dual carriageway!!

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

But the Taoiseach at that time Albert Reynolds said he would have fired Bertie at the time had he found out, like Bertie shafted Ivor over his €2000 paintjob.

Which proves absolutely nothing.

gandalf wrote:

You can see the point, how can a man who campaigned on behalf of the government against drink driving then got caught doing the very same thing be allowed to run for office again. Surely even FF had candidates that could run instead of this tainted individual?

The fact that they are considering relying on someone who has serious questions over their name in allegedly helping others evade tax. And of course the issues that started this thread being made bankrupt.

I've no idea what FF's options were in Donegal.
You are blaming FF, when, in fact, the people have elected Mr McDaid.
The people of Donegal got what they voted for. Last time I checked, that was called democracy.

In fairness, I know that's not your point, but it's what you are saying - if we go by your standards.

cast_iron

Chakar wrote:

It is a fallacy to say that 59% voted against the government.... (followed by irrelevant tripe)

Yes, it is. The actual figure is 55.7%.

I can break it down for you if you like.

McSandwich

cast_iron wrote:

I think you are confusing 2 different issues there:

1. Bertie's standards - nothing proven; if and when proven you may have a point.

2. The drink driving issue - doesn't involve an abuse of power. It's an offence that (in the case I'm assuming you are refering to) was punished by the courts.

Point 1: I accept, although other politicians found guilty of abuse (or at best contempt) of their power have not been forced to resign as TDs.

Point 2: Jim McDaid pleaded guilty to a drink-driving charge and was banned from driving for two years and fined €750. The minister for justice at the time, McDowell said that "it was not unprecedented, and that Dr McDaid was not the first politician to find himself in this situation." He made this statement before the court case, was this appropriate?

http://rte.ie/news/2005/0428/mcdaidj.html

I'm no fan of Flynn, but she'll (rightfully) have to resign her seat if she files for bankrupcy - something I don't think has the potential to endanger lives.

If I purchased €10,000 of computer software and equipment which did not suit it's purpose and did not come with a warranty or service contract, I'd be fired.

If I was a public servant and did something similiar, I'd be asked to resign. However there seems to be no limit to the amount a Government minister can waste without being held accountable (e.g. e-voting, etc.).

We don't look for resignations and we vote them back in! But look at outcry when Staunton selects or leaves out certain players from the Irish football team... Maybe we're just very stupid people.