Do Waterford people actually want a University?

Trotter

Fricatus told me I could blab this idea so dont blame me

While in the count centre yesterday, we could see the general idea of who was and wasnt going to be elected early enough on. The Wilkinson/Kenneally one was the only iffy part.

One guy I was talking to said something to me that made me think a lot.. and to be brutally honest, Im not sure if he was very right, or very wrong.

His opinion was that Waterford has so many generations of people that have not attended 3rd level education due to our manufacturing history that people voted more for who could get them a medical card than who could provide a quality 3rd level education for their children.

It was said (in frustration!) that he felt the ambitions of the average Waterford worker was to become shop steward of the union in work than to become highly educated and skilled in their jobs.


Now... He may have a point, but my opinion wouldnt go as far as that. Its a very "insulting generalisation" in my opinion, but I couldnt help thinking that maybe it was "an explanation" (not the explanation) for blind faith in our representatives.

Just think how many of them are linked back to "old" manufacturing Waterford.. Cullen.. hardely new blood, Kenneally.. the same, Wilkinson.. Hardely forward thinking, Deasy.. Daddy's son and got in on his second name in 2002, and O'Shea.. No new blood there either.

None of these people have suffered the gut wrenching feeling of getting the bus to a larger city on a sunday night because they couldnt get a job in Waterford. Maybe its true to say that Waterford's manufacturing history is still within the voting public who do prioritise the pot hole repair and the medical card over the University.

Dont shout.. Im only saying what he was sayin!!!!!!

Do we (ALL of us in Waterford, not on boards) want a University? I suspect the answer is no.

Remember we on boards are skewed on this because we are all computer and technology literate.

mike65

Nah thats bullsh*t, a whole generation has come and gone since manufacturing was the life and blood of Waterford, the city is no more "old school" smoke and grime than any other at this stage. And todays industry requires third level education anyway.

The publics' interest in and enthusiasm for a university campaign ebbs and flows, right now its in ebb-mode but it would only take some comment from a minister to suggest we would never have a chance and Cork is getting a second and there would be 'riotous occasions'!

Mike.

ps

we are all computer and technology literate

just about!

Trotter

mike65 wrote:

Nah thats bullsh*t, a whole generation has come and gone since manufacturing was the life and blood of Waterford, the city is no more "old school" smoke and grime than any other at this stage. And todays industry requires third level education anyway.

The publics' interest in and enthusiasm for a university campaign ebbs and flows, right now its in ebb-mode but it would only take some comment from a minister to suggest we would never have a chance and Cork is getting a second and there would be 'riotous occasions'!

Mike.

ps just about!

Right I'll be devils advocate..

How many people in Waterford are older than say.. 40 when the best you could do in Waterford was the RTC. Are they the ones who voted for the "old not so faithfuls"?

If we wanted to change how Waterford is seen, is treated etc.. which is what I was hearing for the last year..

Why is the lineup so similar?

Oh and there'd be no riot I think. We'd sit at the table at home and say.. damn FF and damn politicians.. forgettin us down here.

And then we'd vote them back in.

Sully

I think a lot of people want University for the South East, but believe Waterford IT has what it takes (apart from the management side of things) to become a Uni compared to other ITs around the south-east.

Having it in Waterford would also do good for Waterford (and we do need publicity) but also the South East.

Trotter

Sully wrote:

I think a lot of people want University for the South East, but believe Waterford IT has what it takes (apart from the management side of things) to become a Uni compared to other ITs around the south-east.

Having it in Waterford would also do good for Waterford (and we do need publicity) but also the South East.

You believe that Sully, I believe it, and most people that use this forum believe it.

If all of the people of Waterford believed it, why do we have the same mugs back representing us?

mike65

Trotter, people are creatures of habit, if they've voted say FF for 20 years they'll proberly not change unless they can see a damned pressing reason to do so.

As things stand, only one candidtate (an indy) has made a university the central plank of a campaign (she got what, 1500 votes?). The others could have but did'nt as they proberly saw no value in concentrating on something thats not hugely pressing. Yes in the long term one would be a boost but there's a perception the WIT is pretty good and getting investment (whether its enough money is another matter).

I'm not saying I buy into any of the above but its proberly how things are.

Mike.

Trotter

mike65 wrote:

Trotter, people are creatures of habit, if they've voted say FF for 20 years they'll proberly not change unless they can see a damned pressing reason to do so.

As things stand, only one candidtate (an indy) has made a university the central plank of a campaign (she got what, 1500 votes?). The others could have but did'nt as they proberly saw no value in concentrating on something thats not hugely pressing. Yes in the long term one would be a boost but there's a perception the WIT is pretty good and getting investment (whether its enough money is another matter).

I'm not saying I buy into any of the above but its proberly how things are.

Mike.

Exactly. People cant see beyond the habit of who Daddy once told them to vote for.

They didnt see that having someone in the Dáil who promised to scream and shout for the University which would attract jobs, roads, and prosperity.. was a good thing and something that they should and must support.

Doing something now because its what we've always done is a certain way to ensure we always get what we always got.

Feck.. All..

Sully

As regards to voting the same crowd back in... D'Arcy has been found to be not that good as councillor (so im told) and that would go against him anyway. If he cant do a small job, why do the big job?

Next in line we had Coffey who in fact did very well and was pretty close to getting a seat - for a first timer. He would have got it but people voted in OShea as he has done lots for individuals in Waterford & County. Close call.

Deasy had it tough but its his name that got him in. He isnt doing much to keep his nose clean, and he got a damaged vote before the election and I feel his newer comments will damage him further. This will make Waterford people think, and while they see him "standing up and speaking out" (which grabs some votes) others will realise that he is going the wrong way and damaging his chances of being heard for Waterford.

Martin Cullen in general.. tough call. Done lots for Waterford and done well(sh) on Transport. Could have someone better in Transport - which most of what Ireland wants - but locals want him in because he has done LOTS for Waterford City. I didn't give him a vote because he was Fina Fail - tho I felt slightly guilty.

Kennealy and Willkinson.. I personally never heard of them at all, but iv only recently gained interest in politics.

Sinn Fein.. people don't want them in government, and I don't think we need to say why. So that rules out Cullinane.

Greens... why the heck would we vote someone in who blocks every minor and major development planning in Waterford? We cant even get a new railway or proper cinema (or shop, or even a bloody creche!) because of him.

Independent.. We had March Roche, who I never heard of until recent times. Only gave her a vote because of her past experience and her policy (seems to be the only one) with WIT. Probably what others, who even knew of her, thought.

The others such as Workers Party... heard feck all and they don't have a hope of getting elected anyway. There way to small in politics.

So we are left with Martin Cullen and John Deasy - auto elected. The rest is up to gamble.. and why Coffey didn't take a seat might be due to lack of experience. Maybe in the next 5 years we will see more and hear more of him - and id say in the next election if he runs then he might just very well get in.

Trotter

I agree about Coffee. I think he'd have been more effective than Deasy because he's hungrier.. and worth a shot.

Maybe the PR aspect went against Mary Roche and she just wasn't "famous" enough.

I hope Mary and Paudie go again next time. I'd like to see them both as the new blood. I suspect Mary Roche would have to return to FF though to get in. There's no place for an independent in Waterford regardless of how good they are. I think we've learned that this time.

Sully

Mary doesnt have a chance of getting elected, as she has done nothing to show Waterford people what she can do, and what she plans to do.

Coffee is in with a fighting chance and has done much better with less experience.

If Deasy could get a grip on himself, himself and Coffee would be great for Waterford.

Trotter

Sully wrote:

Mary doesnt have a chance of getting elected, as she has done nothing to show Waterford people what she can do, and what she plans to do.

But sure how does any first time TD get elected so?

What do you think she has to do to get elected? If you were advising her, what would you say?

Sully

The way I saw it was.. (but iv had little interest in politics until recently) I came across her poster and was like "Whos she?". Eventually talk became alive about her and she was connected with the WIT Uni team. To this day, thats all I know of what she does.

I spoke to her on one of her campaigns about WIT and about the fact shes going to find it hard to get elected being an Indo. We talked about FG and she informed me that D'Arcy wasnt all that good, and she would be more inclined to give a vote for Coffey and Deasy (who she agreed has damaged his reputation and chances of being listened to).

I just never saw much of any Independent, and what they plan to do for us, and what they have done for us. Same with Mary. I saw her posters, spoke to her, but heard little of her compared to others.

Deasy did it mind you, but all I saw was his reference to recent campaigns (all tied in during the election campaigns) which to me shows nothing. I want to know what he done BEFORE running for election. What he has done during the last 10 years.

Thats what I want to see from anyone looking for my vote.

fricatus

Trotter wrote:

Fricatus told me I could blab this idea so dont blame me

Now now, we're all responsible for our own actions!

Trotter wrote:

His opinion was that Waterford has so many generations of people that have not attended 3rd level education due to our manufacturing history that people voted more for who could get them a medical card than who could provide a quality 3rd level education for their children.

Absolutely true. There are whole swathes of the Waterford population who have no direct or indirect experience of 3rd level education - i.e. none of their friends, their kids, their relatives or workmates have attended university. A university is not even on their radar as an issue, since it's never, ever been relevant to their lives.

There's almost been this sort of "noble worker" inverse snobbery against it in some quarters, like "I worked my way up to the top in this factory, so who needs a formal education?" Don't get me wrong - my parents were upstanding working people, but luckily for me, they understood that I would need a higher level of formal education than they had needed, just to stand still in life.

Fact is, the majority of movers and shakers in this country have almost all gone through one of the seven universities (Trinity and the three main NUIs in particular). All the decisions they make are influenced by the social and geographical context of their education.

As a result, when locations are being chosen for foreign investment, or national centres of excellence, the main university cities have a huge advantage, since decision makers will have a familiarity with them that they won't have with somewhere like Waterford.

Trotter

fricatus wrote:

Now now, we're all responsible for our own actions!

fricatus wrote:

Never mind p155ing people off. Open a new thread! You've piqued my interest and I'd enjoy the debate. FFS, that's why we are all on this site all the time!

Bards

at the end of the day... no matter who wants to give us a University has to make it through the seanád.. now the seanád as we all now is compossed of candidates from the existing University sector.

So it is not easy to pass the necassy legislation through the seanad as it should be without upsetting some D4 and Cork senators who think Waterford should be where their sewers flows, and they think that's why the river is called the Suir


( please exceus the few drinks I've had tonght:D )

mad man

Firstly I would agree wholeheartedly that too many Waterford people vote for such and such because he "got me a medical card" or got me "on top of the housing list".This is a waste of a vote in my opinion.The best vote is for the guy who will get the University/Motorway.This are the Strategic Interestests and will do more to secure everyone than voting for the guy who "got me social welfare sorted out".

Secondly as has been stated there is an inverse snobbery to third level education in Waterford.I think as has been stated it is part of the industrial legacy and it is a similar atitude that working class loyalism has in the north.To this day I am the only person of my generation on the street I grew up on who went to college.Also of the subseqent 15 years.I sh1t you not!This is a damning statistic.Also when I did get in to college I was totally resented for it.If I had a Euro for every wanker who said "I never went to college and I have a (dawn meats) job"

AdMMM

I don't think that there's anyone in Waterford City and maybe even the county who doesn't want a university for Waterford. However, I think that the reason why people weren't voting for people like Mary Roche and John Halligan was because the local issues didn't come into play during this election. FF, FG and Lab made sure that the main question in the minds of the voters come election day was going to be "Who do I want to manage the economy and the health service for the next five years?" rather than "Who can get us a university or work to combat anti-social behaviour and drug dealing in our estates?". I know SF, WP and GP supporters who gave their first preference votes to the big three parties because in their mind it was the economy and leadership that was the big issue for this election.

I don't buy the whole "I'm a worker and don't need a university" excuse because if the electorate really felt that way, then we would have seen a much larger vote for the left.