Eoghan Harris v Fintan O'Toole on Today FM

A Dub in Glasgo

Just listening to this fantastic piece of radio. Harris was ranting & raving, calling people names then he storms out of the Last Word studio saying 'he has had enough'

I am in stitches here listening to mad hatter Harris

flogen

He's on RTÉ Radio 1 - maybe that's why he stormed out, had places to go.

Dudess

La link: http://www.todayfm.com/goout.asp?u=http://audio.todayfm.com/files/HARRIS-1.wma

nacho libre

Dudess wrote:

La link: http://www.todayfm.com/goout.asp?u=http://audio.todayfm.com/files/HARRIS-1.wma

Thanks for providing the link. Great entertainment altogether from Harris. He would be right at home on Fox News:D

landmonster

Link doesn't seem to be working for me.

monument

Do you have Windows Media Player?

Stargal

It's going to be replayed on The Last Word just after 6pm this evening.

It's a great piece - O'Toole completely demolishes Harris's arguments, and he comes across as completely deranged.

jdivision

In fairness he changes sides more often that kevin myers. Harris isn't really credible on anything.

shepthedog

Heard it on the last word this evening. Harris came across extremely badly.. No structure to his argument, he just raved on and on.. Fintan o'toole did well to keep his composure and came out of it with dignity...

Tom Dunne

I heard it on the Ian Dempsey Breakfast show this morning - the lads were having a great laugh at it.

crackity_jones

Belligerent old windbag or not Harris has been spot on with a number of election issues in the past 6 months. When the media was calling for Ahern's head before Christmas in relation to the Manchester payments Harris stressed repeatedly that the public would not care one jot about this and Ahern's subsequent big bounce in the polls paid testimony to this. Harris does not even seem to be popular with his fellow hacks on the Sunday Independent but even they grudgingly admitted he got it right.

Ditto for stamp duty and FF cleaning up in the election just gone. He went on the Late Late the week before the election and backed Ahern to the hilt and was right again. How many times the quota did the man get? More's the pity.

People seem to get tone mixed up with substance. Sure he dominates debates and can be a general pain in the ass but as he said on the Late Late when you change your mind (you are allowed to do that) you do it with conviction and go all the way. Remember he was a dyed in the wool socialist.

Contrast that with journalists such as O'Toole who are still chasing the illegal payments issue. The Irish Times have egg all over their face following the election result and they don't seem to want to accept it.

A Dub in Glasgo

I did not appreciate before now that a journalist should not look into something because people are apathetic 'Ack sure, the people won't be bothering with this stuff, best sweep it under the carpet'

crackity_jones

"I did not appreciate before now that a journalist should not look into something because people are apathetic 'Ack sure, the people won't be bothering with this stuff, best sweep it under the carpet'"

I agree with you to a point. I suspect that part of the reason for this general apathy is down to the relatively small sums of money involved. That is relative to the sums that Haughey bagged. The one reason, more than any other, that I loathe Haughey is the state he left Irish politics in when he eventually shuffled off. Or rather the effect he had on the public's perception of Irish politics.

A generation of young Irish voters don't give a toss because they simply don't trust politicians. Is it any wonder that regardless of what facts are revealed about Bertie's alleged wrong-doings he keeps coming up smelling of roses?

flogen

crackity_jones wrote:

Belligerent old windbag or not Harris has been spot on with a number of election issues in the past 6 months. When the media was calling for Ahern's head before Christmas in relation to the Manchester payments Harris stressed repeatedly that the public would not care one jot about this and Ahern's subsequent big bounce in the polls paid testimony to this. Harris does not even seem to be popular with his fellow hacks on the Sunday Independent but even they grudgingly admitted he got it right.

The role of journalism isn't to find what people want to hear and tell them it - the interest from the general public should never be a factor in the coverage an item gets.

Reporting in the public interest does not mean reporting only what the public is interested in.

Ditto for stamp duty and FF cleaning up in the election just gone. He went on the Late Late the week before the election and backed Ahern to the hilt and was right again. How many times the quota did the man get? More's the pity.

The amount of votes Ahern would get was never an issue for debate - he'd have had to have killed every newborn in Drumcondra to have not done so well.

What you're basically saying is that Harris as a journalist was right to back Ahern and ignore any questions in relation to him because he was going to get re-elected?

Contrast that with journalists such as O'Toole who are still chasing the illegal payments issue. The Irish Times have egg all over their face following the election result and they don't seem to want to accept it.

They have egg all over their face for reporting on the financial inconsistencies of our leader?

crackity_jones

flogen wrote:

The role of journalism isn't to find what people want to hear and tell them it - the interest from the general public should never be a factor in the coverage an item gets.

Reporting in the public interest does not mean reporting only what the public is interested in.

I couldn't agree more Flogen. In fact I would go as far to say that journalists in general do not pursue enough items which, while they may not sell any extra papers, are vitally important to the public interest. I don't think this is quite as big a problem here as it is in the U.S. (the Florida hanging chad lark in 2000 being a good example) but as the newspaper market gets more and more competitive it will surely become more of an issue. Sports coverage and celebrity gossip are what sell papers.

My original intention was to highlight the fact that Harris is not given the credit he is due for the accuracy of his predictions. To many he is a figure of fun (certainly among younger people) and this is solely due to his debating technique which is very aggressive and the polar opposite to more thoughtful characters like Waters and O'Toole. He just rubs people up the wrong way even if they might agree with a lot of what he is saying.

flogen wrote:

The amount of votes Ahern would get was never an issue for debate - he'd have had to have killed every newborn in Drumcondra to have not done so well.

I'm not contesting that. His seat was never in any doubt. I made the mistake of referring to Ahern's chances in Drumcondra rather than FF's in general. I think when Harris backed Ahern he was backing FF and urged several of the less loyal members to ignore the media furore and stand behind their leader.

flogen wrote:

What you're basically saying is that Harris as a journalist was right to back Ahern and ignore any questions in relation to him because he was going to get re-elected?

I never said Harris was right or wrong to back Ahern. That was never the point of my original post. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here in that I personally feel that Ahern does have a case to answer in relation to the current issue of what money he did and did not receive. However, Harris did not have an issue with this as he felt it was not important and Ahern was the best man to lead the country. The Northern Ireland issue influenced his decision greatly to back him. And he does have a point on that one. Ahern has been very good for that.

And he loathes the Irish Times. Well, he loathes all forms of political correctness and maybe more of their journalists indulge in it.

flogen wrote:

They have egg all over their face for reporting on the financial inconsistencies of our leader?

They have egg on their faces because they made a huge thing out of the financial inconsistencies and in the end it made no difference whatsoever to the final result. Yes, it is an important issue but some sections of the media took it too far. Of course you could say it greatly aided FF's chances in that it focused all attention onto The Great Leader and deflected it from the less than stellar performers (Cullen, Roche etc.)

flogen

crackity_jones wrote:

My original intention was to highlight the fact that Harris is not given the credit he is due for the accuracy of his predictions. To many he is a figure of fun (certainly among younger people) and this is solely due to his debating technique which is very aggressive and the polar opposite to more thoughtful characters like Waters and O'Toole. He just rubs people up the wrong way even if they might agree with a lot of what he is saying.

But Harris isn't looking for people to conceed that his "prediction" was right - he takes the FF victory as justification for his newspaper's failure to cover the issues.

I never said Harris was right or wrong to back Ahern. That was never the point of my original post. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here in that I personally feel that Ahern does have a case to answer in relation to the current issue of what money he did and did not receive. However, Harris did not have an issue with this as he felt it was not important and Ahern was the best man to lead the country. The Northern Ireland issue influenced his decision greatly to back him. And he does have a point on that one. Ahern has been very good for that.

That's thinking in extremes. Just because people demand explanation from their leader doesn't mean they're against him taking lead of the country again. Sure, he's done plenty of good things but that shouldn't mean that newspapers give him an easy ride every other time. That's what Harris seems to be suggesting we do - he's the best man for the job so let's ignore any doubts or questions we may have.

And he loathes the Irish Times. Well, he loathes all forms of political correctness and maybe more of their journalists indulge in it.

So in other words he has something in his claw about The Irish Times and is using this issue as a weapon to further that? If Harris disagrees with everything the IT agrees with just to be on the opposite side of the fence then he's a bigger fool than I thought. I don't think he operates like that though, that would involve him making decisions that didn't benefit him personally.

They have egg on their faces because they made a huge thing out of the financial inconsistencies and in the end it made no difference whatsoever to the final result.

If The Irish Times printed the stories with the overt aim of changing the political scene then I'd agree with you, but there's nothing to suggest that they did.

A newspaper shouldn't have this concern in mind - whether a story will improve or damage a party's performance is not a pre-requisite for publishing and never should be. Of course when any journalist publishes a big story they must realise the potential it has to change the focus of a debate but that should be a consequence, not a reason.

Yes, it is an important issue but some sections of the media took it too far. Of course you could say it greatly aided FF's chances in that it focused all attention onto The Great Leader and deflected it from the less than stellar performers (Cullen, Roche etc.)

I don't think The Irish Times did, personally. As I said above, the impact shouldn't be the reason for publishing. A story shouldn't be published just because it will damage someone and a story shouldn't be spiked just because its failure to be published could do the same.

jdivision

The only reason that the Sindo campaigned on stamp duty is that some of its journalists were selling their houses. All opinion polls and political research I've seen shows stamp duty was at bottom of list of areas that people were interested in. If Harris was honest he'd be asking IN&M and Sir Anto to reveal what meeting with FF entailed that led to sudden about turn attacks on FG and praise for FF in Sindo. As for the Ahern, it could become death by a thousand cuts. His statements don't add up. Full stop. Newspapers have a responsibility to report the Tribunal allegations.

karen3212

crackity_jones wrote:

Or rather the effect he had on the public's perception of Irish politics.

A generation of young Irish voters don't give a toss because they simply don't trust politicians. Is it any wonder that regardless of what facts are revealed about Bertie's alleged wrong-doings he keeps coming up smelling of roses?

Em? I pretty much lost repsect for a lot of journalists, where were they before Iraq? Anyway , just wanted to say about post above, I don't think it's a good idea to ever really trust people with power, I see far too many countries blindly following the leader, I think it's better to be suspect of politicians. I think we'll all be better off not trusting them, but I know what you mean, enough trust to vote, but not too much I hope ever.

Gas debate, great fun

Unshelved

All Harris is is a bandwagon-jumper. He sees the direction in which public opinion is moving, goes along with it and then takes credit for either predicting it or actually influencing it. It's arrant nonsense borne out of crass arrogance, and also a lot of insecurity I'd imagine. He always seems to have this overpowering need to write about himself - as if he, and only he, is the story and everything else is secondary. I'd bet that if you analysed all the recent articles that he's written about the election, the words "I" and "me" appear far more frequently than "Ahern" or "Kenny".

And he loathes the Irish Times. Well, he loathes all forms of political correctness and maybe more of their journalists indulge in it.

I don't know that he does loathe the Times - it's more like flag-waving for the SIndo - like it's some kind of a football team or something. He goes on and on about how the SIndo got some story right and some other newspaper got it wrong. Every week. (In this way he's like the media writ large - thinking they're more important than the actual story. Like people give a toss). It's as if he's trying to reassure himself that he's working for the best paper and everything else is rubbish. If he really believed that would he feel the need to bore us with such irrelevant dross? His obsession with the Times seems to me to spring for a desire to actually work there and be the resident irritant like Waters is and Myers was.

Roanmore

jdivision wrote:

The only reason that the Sindo campaigned on stamp duty is that some of its journalists were selling their houses. All opinion polls and political research I've seen shows stamp duty was at bottom of list of areas that people were interested in. If Harris was honest he'd be asking IN&M and Sir Anto to reveal what meeting with FF entailed that led to sudden about turn attacks on FG and praise for FF in Sindo. As for the Ahern, it could become death by a thousand cuts. His statements don't add up. Full stop. Newspapers have a responsibility to report the Tribunal allegations.

I read what Eoghan Harris had to say about this yesterday but to be honest it's wasn't something that held my interest. What did interest me though was his justification for swinging their support behind FF in the election. He claimed that it had "everthing to do with the fact that as soon as our crusade to reform stamp duty had succeeded we stopped flailing at Fianna Fail".
So the Sindo's crusade was to abolish was to abolish Stamp Duty for first time buyers, I think Eoghan Harris is really fooling himself here. The Sunday Independent were looking for a lot more than that, they wanted it abolished altogether. Eoghan Harris is really clutching at straws here when he says their crusade succeeded.