Worth a Call?

Primewise

1 / 2 Cash Game in the Fitz

Big Blind - €400
UTG - €200
UTG +1 - €200
Hero (Cutoff position) - €300 - dealt Ah6c
Button - €200


Preflop
UTG limps
UTG+1 raises to €10
Hero calls
Button calls
Small Blind calls
Big Blind Calls
UTG calls


Flop: Qh 8h 4h. Pot €60

Small Blind checks
Big Blind bets €45
UTG folds
UTG +1 folds
Hero calls 45 with Nut flush draw
Button raises Allin for €190
Small Blind folds
Big Blind All-in and has me covered

Action to hero? Costs €245 to see a pot of €640. I’m sitting there thinking that the Button already has the flush, but I can’t put the big blind on a hand (maybe a set, 2 pair, flush)

Both the button and the big blind are moderately good players, both quite aggressive. I have a tight image.

My problem is that I am getting an ok price for my draw, but if the button already has a flush, I am down to only 7 outs, and I have no idea about the big blind. Is it worth a call here? I am doing quite well at the table up until this point

jimmii

Fold pre-flop and fold again now. 7 outs to your flush is probably the best you could hope for.

Primewise

Playing in a typical NL cash game I would fold a bad ace like this, but this is Pot limit in the fitz!!

You have to experience it to understand... a lot of the time you can call a raise with almost two cards and still make money.

At this table most hands were played with 1 preflop raiser and a minimum of 5 deep stacked callers...

phantom_lord

it's a fold pf and i don't think it's close.

sickpuppy

You called with abag of bollox and hit the flop hard.Ok the betting probably means amade flush is out and probably aset two pair or pair and flush combo kq maybe k of hearts.As played i stick it in i like a gamble though on drawing hands.If you are going to play marginal
hands like ace rag you are continually going to find yourself in situations like this big betting wirh poor hands.How many times u gonna flop amonster with ace 6 not enough to make it profitable no matter how bad the players are so call.

pok3rplaya

Primewise wrote:

1 / 2 Cash Game in the Fitz

Big Blind - €400
UTG - €200
UTG +1 - €200
Hero (Cutoff position) - €300 - dealt Ah6c
Button - €200


Preflop
UTG limps
UTG+1 raises to €10
Hero folds
Button calls
Small Blind calls
Big Blind Calls
UTG calls


Flop: Qh 8h 4h. Pot €60

Small Blind checks
Big Blind bets €45
UTG folds
UTG +1 folds
Hero folds with Nut flush draw
Button raises Allin for €190
Small Blind folds
Big Blind All-in and has me covered

.

Marq

fold preflop.

Primewise

I know a fold preflop is the most correct, but anyway, the question is whether or not to call the flop bet.

I was getting great odds for a flush draw. I was wondering would any of you take into account the possibility that they BOTH had a made flush? That situation is so unlikely that it has to be discounted.

As it happened they both had made flushes on the flop, so I was drawing to only 5 outs. So I actually didn’t have enough outs to make a call profitable. But I didn’t know that at the time

Ste05

Primewise wrote:

You have to experience it to understand... a lot of the time you can call a raise with almost two cards and still make money.

You actually can't, it's people thinking like this that makes the games so good. It's a fold Pre-Flop and a fold to the original raise and it's a fold now.

Primewise

Ste05 wrote:

You actually can't, it's people thinking like this that makes the games so good. It's a fold Pre-Flop and a fold to the original raise and it's a fold now.

Ok I take your point that its a fold preflop and a fold to the PF raise.

Can you explain why you would fold now though? Would you call if only 1 of them had a made flush?

Ste05

I'd fold now because we're getting about 2.6:1, and we need about ~2.1:1 or so to call usually when we think all our flush outs are OK, in this example it's a certainty that one of them has a made flush (seeing as we basically hold the only realistic draw they could have) and the other either has a flush or a set, so not only are not all our flush outs available, there's also the added bonus of the board pairing on the turn when we might be drawing dead, it's just a pretty nasty spot.

Although the pot is tempting.

CelticPhantom

Primewise wrote:

Ok I take your point that its a fold preflop and a fold to the PF raise.

Can you explain why you would fold now though? Would you call if only 1 of them had a made flush?

Hi,

It is costing you €245 to win €830 total pot (including your call). Therefore your pot odds are 29.5%.

If you have 9 hearts left to hit - then the odds of hitting these is (9x4) ~36%. The odds of hitting your hand are better than the pot odds, so you should call.

If one of them has the flush already (i.e. holds 2 hearts) you have only 7 hearts left to hit at odds of (7x4) ~28%. The odds of hitting your hand are worse than the pot odds, so you should fold. Since you are pretty sure one of your opponents holds 2 hearts - the odds say that you should fold.

Regards,

Fintan

fuzzbox

CelticPhantom wrote:

Hi,

It is costing you €245 to win €830 total pot (including your call). Therefore your pot odds are 29.5%.

If you have 9 hearts left to hit - then the odds of hitting these is (9x4) ~36%. The odds of hitting your hand are better than the pot odds, so you should call.

If one of them has the flush already (i.e. holds 2 hearts) you have only 7 hearts left to hit at odds of (7x4) ~28%. The odds of hitting your hand are worse than the pot odds, so you should fold. Since you are pretty sure one of your opponents holds 2 hearts - the odds say that you should fold.

Regards,

Fintan

You cant count the money that you are about to put into the pot as part of your winnings, if you win. You dont WIN that, you just get it back (if you win).

BuChan

CelticPhantom wrote:

Hi,

It is costing you €245 to win €830 total pot (including your call). Therefore your pot odds are 29.5%.

If you have 9 hearts left to hit - then the odds of hitting these is (9x4) ~36%. The odds of hitting your hand are better than the pot odds, so you should call.

If one of them has the flush already (i.e. holds 2 hearts) you have only 7 hearts left to hit at odds of (7x4) ~28%. The odds of hitting your hand are worse than the pot odds, so you should fold. Since you are pretty sure one of your opponents holds 2 hearts - the odds say that you should fold.

Regards,

Fintan

this is wasy off, you don't include your potential call in a pot odds calculation....

A rag off is usually going to be a loser. since all the pots are megamultiway sooted As and connecters + small pairs can get great value but A rag goes in the muck preflop.
i'd fold this since you're pretty sure you've only got 7 outs and liable to be drawing dead on the turn. it was unlikely that they both had flushes i would have though a flush and a set so you're not looking good. i think you need 3.2to1 or so to make this call. could someone actually post the exact figure please.