But I have the straight!

Dantes

Hi, this situation occurs every now and then and I'm just wondering how you guys handle it...

FullTiltPoker Game #2499585422: Table Ibizo (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:51:30 ET - 2007/05/24
Seat 1: UTG+1 ($3.10)
Seat 2: CO ($21.30)
Seat 3: Button ($70)
Seat 4: SB ($16.75)
Seat 5: Hero ($49.75)
Seat 6: Villain ($52.20)
SB posts the small blind of $0.25
Hero posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Ad]
Villain raises to $2
UTG+1 folds
CO folds
Button folds
SB calls $1.75
Hero calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [9c Ts 8d]
SB checks
Hero checks
Villain checks
*** TURN *** [9c Ts 8d] [Jh]
SB bets $0.50
Hero raises to $4
Villain raises to $50.20, and is all in
SB folds
Hero???

No reads.
Is this guy a moron with a Queen, or has he got KQ, does it matter, the bet is too big I should fold anyway?

Thanks

edit: Any comments on how I played the hand also welcomed!!

BrokenArrows

Dantes wrote:

Hi, this situation occurs every now and then and I'm just wondering how you guys handle it...

FullTiltPoker Game #2499585422: Table Ibizo (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:51:30 ET - 2007/05/24
Seat 1: UTG+1 ($3.10)
Seat 2: CO ($21.30)
Seat 3: Button ($70)
Seat 4: SB ($16.75)
Seat 5: Hero ($49.75)
Seat 6: Villain ($52.20)
SB posts the small blind of $0.25
Hero posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Ad]
Villain raises to $2
UTG+1 folds
CO folds
Button folds
SB calls $1.75
Hero calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [9c Ts 8d]
SB checks
Hero checks
Villain checks
*** TURN *** [9c Ts 8d] [Jh]
SB bets $0.50
Hero raises to $4
Villain raises to $50.20, and is all in
SB folds
Hero???

No reads.
Is this guy a moron with a Queen, or has he got KQ, does it matter, the bet is too big I should fold anyway?

Thanks

I dont think you can fold here. If he has the KQ i dont think he is pushing like this. Im my eyes the worst you have here is a split pot.

phantom_lord

fold, at best it's a split.

pok3rplaya

lol why do some people always quote the origonal post when they reply!? We know what you are replying to!

shoutman

Call, these kind of moronic plays can be done with anything, he is just as likely to have a seven as he is to have kq, so definate call its just a bad beat if you call and he has kq.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Chucky the tree

Should KQ always be raised UTG?

shoutman

Why would the Villain push like this, you have shown no real strength in this hand other then reraising a min bet on the turn!
Its a ridiculous squeeze type bet but I really dont think that it is -ev to fold in this situation. You see too many idiots at this level doing this with junk.

phantom_lord

Chucky the tree wrote:

Should KQ always be raised UTG?

suited, yup, off-suit most of the time. but that's in 6max,

RedJoker

Chucky the tree wrote:

Should KQ always be raised UTG?

Yes; I nearly always do.

43.75 to win 58.25, eh I probably call this. Might depend on villain though, passive nit and I wouldn't bother.

Katooey

Recently in the SE donkament, a newbie to poker bet 3000 into a 1000 pot when there was a house on the board. I folded and a couple of reg cash players thought it was hilarious

Dantes

Cheers for replies, the camps seem to be split. The results are unimportant, I think a read is the only thing that can make the decision here, unfortunately I didn't have one...

pok3rplaya

ohya I forgot to say call in my post

robinlacey

i think this is definitely a fold,sometimes its a split,occasionally he has something crazy,but not nearly enough to make up for the times you've put nearly 100bbs into a nothing pot and he has the nuts.

ianmc38

definite fold. im not convinced on the merits of raising KQo UTG the majority of the time either.

fuzzbox

I fold this regularly, you are nearly always shown the nuts here. If not the nuts, then it is a split pot.

Tar.Aldarion

call

25/50?
Could easily be a lower straight.
Nah, he may have qq, jq, kq, or aq

HiCloy

I fold as well

peeko

it's tough at .25/.50, but best to get in the habbit of giving in to this type or raise going forward.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah true, although with a queen I would probably do what the raiser did and hope to get not nut straights to fold.

jimmii

I think it depends on the player. Against any player who has a clue you really have to only be splitting. Against some idiot I don't mind a call as much as there is a higher chance they have something stupid.

fuzzbox

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Yeah true, although with a queen I would probably do what the raiser did and hope to get not nut straights to fold.

Its not worth it.

Tar.Aldarion

It is if you think they don't have it and are at best drawing with you. Depends on the hand in question.

Blip

You do see villian show a 7 or a Q here alot at these levels, even though their behind to KQ, In this hand with all your stack on call, I think i fold too.

menoscemo

Even if he had KQ you would still have a K for the nutz

Marq

get it in so!
3 kings left!

Tar.Aldarion

he won't need one of there is three, he will if there are two.

fuzzbox

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

It is if you think they don't have it and are at best drawing with you. Depends on the hand in question.

No it isnt.

kryogen

i think its a fold, u are pretty much calling for a split pot, which is bad.... and also if this is how the guy is gonna play, i.e. overplaying his cards, then you will find a better spot to get his money anyway, why take a split pot from him when you can get him to put all his money in with a draw down the line, or better yet drawing dead but he doesnt know it yet!!

Tar.Aldarion

fuzzbox wrote:

No it isnt.

Explain why, in more than three words.

TacT

fold. The reason he is pushing that money across the line is because he knows someone will have a bare queen and seven a lot here and instacall because they have a straight.

phantom_lord

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Explain why, in more than three words.

why would you risk a $50 stack to try to avoid spliting a $10 pot? doesn't seem worth it to me, esp. when the other guy's gonna wake up with the nuts and stack you some of the time.

fuzzbox

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Explain why, in more than three words.

You explain why it is?

Its pretty obvious why it isnt.

smoothcall

id call, this at 25c 50c, but once you got to about 1-2 , 2-4 or up they nearly always have the KQ

RoundTower

TacT wrote:

fold. The reason he is pushing that money across the line is because he knows someone will have a bare queen and seven a lot here and instacall because they have a straight.

yeah pretty much

Tar.Aldarion

phantom_lord wrote:

why would you risk a $50 stack to try to avoid spliting a $10 pot? doesn't seem worth it to me, esp. when the other guy's gonna wake up with the nuts and stack you some of the time.

This is .25/.50.
River.
Bet of 50c: I'd be surprised if he even had a queen.
Raise to 4.50 or something: This guy has a queen, he did not shove, he does not have kq.
If I have a q or kq I shove being the last to act, I either win or split, the fact that so many say fold with a queen is a good representative of why I would win more than I lose by the occasion stacking.
Now if the statws I had on the guy that reraised told me to, I would just call.
At this level, they usually do not. I have gone all-in at this level with a ace high straight on the board and people have folded and I would gladly risk 50 for the extra 5. :P

TacT

smoothcall wrote:

id call, this at 25c 50c, but once you got to about 1-2 , 2-4 or up they nearly always have the KQ

this is bad advice for anyone looking to turn a profit at these stakes, even further down at the .10/.25c level, there are plenty of nits nowadays.

insafehands

Wow, surprised there is much debate over this.

If he raised to $20 or something, perhaps you could justify a call. But the odds you're getting are awful.